Encore back to yellow: CDC started investigation?

[BermudaBound2014]

I am having a difficult time understanding the color coding system used by the CDC. I just checked this morning and the CDC has moved the Encore from green to yellow again and it says that they have started an investigation. Does anyone know what this means exactly? Is the CDC investigating self-reported data? If so, how?

 

As of today, the majority of ships sailing with passengers are classified as yellow or orange. How is the CDC investigating this many ships? The best I can tell, of ships carrying passengers there are only 5 from the big three that remain green while 21 are either yellow or orange. The system just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[aubreyc1988]

35 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I am having a difficult time understanding the color coding system used by the CDC. I just checked this morning and the CDC has moved the Encore from green to yellow again and it says that they have started an investigation. Does anyone know what this means exactly? Is the CDC investigating self-reported data? If so, how?

 

As of today, the majority of ships sailing with passengers are classified as yellow or orange. How is the CDC investigating this many ships? The best I can tell, of ships carrying passengers there are only 5 from the big three that remain green while 21 are either yellow or orange. The system just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Look at the part I highlighted in yellow 

 

I feel like it would be VERY easy to go "yellow ship" just based on one more more cases in crew. 

• Yellow Ship Criteria

• Ship is at or above CDC’s investigation threshold:
  • Restricted Voyages:
    • Cases reported in 0.10% or more of passengers (e.g., if 6500* passengers on board, CDC’s investigation threshold is met if there are 7 or more cases among passengers occurring during the previous 7 days), or
      • This percentage includes passenger cases occurring within 5 days of disembarkation that CDC was notified of by state or local health departments.
    • One or more cases reported in crew.
  • Simulated Voyages:
    • Cases reported in 1.5% or more of passengers, or
    • Cases reported in 1.0% or more of crew.
  • Ships with Crew Only (i.e., not yet submitted requests for simulated voyages or applications for restricted voyages, pending CDC approval, or sailing at a later date).
    • Cases reported in 1.0% or more of crew.

[BermudaBound2014]

@aubreyc1988 I've read that from the CDC but I still have questions. First: I would think the crew would be least likely to test positive since the crew is currently not being allowed off the ship ever, so they are the only ones truly in the bubble. Second: Are you of the belief that if a ship is yellow Covid has been confirmed? I thought it meant that it was only suspected and it could turn out to be a CLI? Although I just read that there were people in hazmat suits on deck 10 of Encore yesterday, so I suppose that is leading us to believe a confirmed case in a passenger? 

[laedw]

A description of each color is in this article.  I'm going to put cruising on the backburner for now.  Yellow means the number of passenger or crew cases met the threshold for CDC investigation. Six Carnival Cruise Line ships are designated yellow, as is one each operated by Carnival Corp. sister lines Holland America and Princess Cruises.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/money/fl-bz-cruise-ships-positive-coromavirus-20210815-z6k3cwfgn5f6vc5p6o2t7r2z5e-story.html

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by laedw
Added text

[hallux]

I don't think I can link to his videos or channel (because he's a travel agent) but there's a 'CruiseTuber' that went over this color coding system in a video or two last week.  His name isn't Don but he's a friend of his...

[aubreyc1988]

42 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

@aubreyc1988 I've read that from the CDC but I still have questions. First: I would think the crew would be least likely to test positive since the crew is currently not being allowed off the ship ever, so they are the only ones truly in the bubble. Second: Are you of the belief that if a ship is yellow Covid has been confirmed? I thought it meant that it was only suspected and it could turn out to be a CLI? Although I just read that there were people in hazmat suits on deck 10 of Encore yesterday, so I suppose that is leading us to believe a confirmed case in a passenger? 

I don't believe or disbelieve anything, simply going by the cdc chart and website. 

 

Also, I would tend to agree with you except for the situation on Carnival where they had so many crew test positive. 

 

But like I said, I'm simply reading what the CDC has on their website. Seems like one case for crew would be an easy threshold to reach to become yellow, not that it is cause for alarm, but more like what a ridiculous minimum requirement for yellow. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by aubreyc1988

[Karaboudjan]

1 hour ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

@aubreyc1988 I've read that from the CDC but I still have questions. First: I would think the crew would be least likely to test positive since the crew is currently not being allowed off the ship ever, so they are the only ones truly in the bubble. Second: Are you of the belief that if a ship is yellow Covid has been confirmed? I thought it meant that it was only suspected and it could turn out to be a CLI? Although I just read that there were people in hazmat suits on deck 10 of Encore yesterday, so I suppose that is leading us to believe a confirmed case in a passenger? 

 

Is it confirmed that crew are not being allowed off ships ever?  Is that an NCL policy?  I do not see that listed in the Preventive Measures section of the CDC Technical Instructions page, and even what is listed is noted as recommended, not required.

[BermudaBound2014]

15 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

 

Is it confirmed that crew are not being allowed off ships ever?  Is that an NCL policy?  I do not see that listed in the Preventive Measures section of the CDC Technical Instructions page, and even what is listed is noted as recommended, not required.

 

Good point. That has not been confirmed in terms of policy, but it has been reported from multiple reviews here that crew is not allowed to disembark the Encore at all.

[Yesimapirate]

3 hours ago, hallux said:

I don't think I can link to his videos or channel (because he's a travel agent) but there's a 'CruiseTuber' that went over this color coding system in a video or two last week.  His name isn't Don but he's a friend of his...

That guy is Loco😉

[BermudaBound2014]

In just her second voyage since resuming sailing, the Gem has turned Orange. 

 

[BirdTravels]

8 hours ago, laedw said:

A description of each color is in this article.  I'm going to put cruising on the backburner for now.  Yellow means the number of passenger or crew cases met the threshold for CDC investigation. Six Carnival Cruise Line ships are designated yellow, as is one each operated by Carnival Corp. sister lines Holland America and Princess Cruises.

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/money/fl-bz-cruise-ships-positive-coromavirus-20210815-z6k3cwfgn5f6vc5p6o2t7r2z5e-story.html

 

Or poor bookeeping

 

• During the past 7 days, the ship failed to submit one or more daily EDC submissions on time (by 1200 ET). On a weekly basis, CDC emails all ships a reminder to submit the EDC form. In addition, CDC sends a reminder email if a ship does not submit their EDC form.

[BermudaBound2014]

For these charts to have any validity, I think there needs to be a distinction between an actual Covid test positive and CLI. Based on what I can tell, there is no difference.

[riverotter]

On 8/26/2021 at 9:54 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

 

Good point. That has not been confirmed in terms of policy, but it has been reported from multiple reviews here that crew is not allowed to disembark the Encore at all.

And to complicate things even further, apparently the crew also have their own color system in some cases.  Someone on the Encore just reported that they had one passenger test positive, and that family got moved off the ship but the bridge crew are now in something called code red which means they are in some sort of lockdown and are wearing N95 masks and can’t meet with passengers or any other crew members.  Apparently it's just to make sure critical crew stay healthy.  

[SwimmingDragon]

49 minutes ago, riverotter said:

And to complicate things even further, apparently the crew also have their own color system in some cases.  Someone on the Encore just reported that they had one passenger test positive, and that family got moved off the ship but the bridge crew are now in something called code red which means they are in some sort of lockdown and are wearing N95 masks and can’t meet with passengers or any other crew members.  Apparently it's just to make sure critical crew stay healthy.  

May I ask where you got that information from? That's like super specific.  Eye opening, but not surprising from the color codes.

[ChiefMateJRK]

15 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

For these charts to have any validity, I think there needs to be a distinction between an actual Covid test positive and CLI. Based on what I can tell, there is no difference.

It doesn't have to make sense.  It's the government.

[riverotter]

2 hours ago, SwimmingDragon said:

May I ask where you got that information from? That's like super specific.  Eye opening, but not surprising from the color codes.

A woman who is on the Encore now reported it I think in her roll call.  I assume she was talking to a crew member in the know, but of course we all have to be mindful that things get lost in translation, or code red might just be a term the crew is using colloquially, not an actual classification.

[yankprintster]

I noticed the "ship is now operating in condition red ... Don't call bridge unless its an emergency" pop up messages during some of the trivia games and other events in the atrium during our sailing because the PowerPoint slides were projected from the crewmembers laptop, but the two times I saw the popup we were about an hour from docking at a ports, so I figured it meant the bridge crew was busy with navigating the channel prepping for docking and just didn't want to be disturbed.  Never imagined it would be anything more than that.

[BermudaBound2014]

6 minutes ago, yankprintster said:

I noticed the "ship is now operating in condition red ... Don't call bridge unless its an emergency" pop up messages during some of the trivia games and other events in the atrium during our sailing because the PowerPoint slides were projected from the crewmembers laptop, but the two times I saw the popup we were about an hour from docking at a ports, so I figured it meant the bridge crew was busy with navigating the channel prepping for docking and just didn't want to be disturbed.  Never imagined it would be anything more than that.

 

That would leave me feeling a little unnerved no matter what the reason.

 

The ship is still operating yellow according to the CDC

[littlelulu01]

1 hour ago, yankprintster said:

I noticed the "ship is now operating in condition red ... Don't call bridge unless its an emergency" pop up messages during some of the trivia games and other events in the atrium during our sailing because the PowerPoint slides were projected from the crewmembers laptop, but the two times I saw the popup we were about an hour from docking at a ports, so I figured it meant the bridge crew was busy with navigating the channel prepping for docking and just didn't want to be disturbed.  Never imagined it would be anything more than that.

You are onboard and have been to more than one port?  You’re watching PowerPoint presentations from crew laptops before 6am?  Yesterday was our first port day, today we’re just now docked and it’s only 7am. I saw the captain mingling with guests on Sunday night.  I personally wouldn’t mingle with guests if I was the captain but that’s just my opinion.  Ncl seems to know what they’re doing.  Crew is in great spirits, fun atmosphere, I’ve seen nothing out of ordinary. Food isn’t as good as I had hoped for but excellent service and relaxing vacation more than making up for it. 

[Bartfast]

On 8/26/2021 at 6:45 PM, BermudaBound2014 said:

In just her second voyage since resuming sailing, the Gem has turned Orange. 

 

 

I am confused. Orange seems to mean 0.10% of passengers Covid-positive in the past 7 days and no crew cases (orange ship criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/management/technical-instructions-for-cruise-ships.html#green-ship).

So, doesn't this mean actual Covid on the previous week's cruise?

[BermudaBound2014]

20 minutes ago, Bartfast said:

 

I am confused. Orange seems to mean 0.10% of passengers Covid-positive in the past 7 days and no crew cases (orange ship criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/management/technical-instructions-for-cruise-ships.html#green-ship).

So, doesn't this mean actual Covid on the previous week's cruise?

 

It's hard to tell. Yellow is worse than orange (which seems counter-intuitive to me). Best I can understand, neither color absolutely confirms covid onboard. It could be a CLI. However; based on reports of hazmat suits on deck 10, I would be bet it's actual covid. It is impossible to keep this virus off ships.

[chengkp75]

"Condition Red" is a term used by NCL to denote the ship is in restricted, or pilotage, waters, and not to bother the bridge or engine control room unless it is an emergency.  It has been in use for decades.  The bridge crew would be masked during "condition red", since a pilot would have been embarked, and working on the bridge.  Every ship in the world, cruise ship or not, follows this when a pilot (from outside the crew bubble) is onboard.  So, while this is a new requirement for "condition red", it is a precautionary measure for covid, and not a response to a reported case.  Masks would be worn only while the pilot is onboard, but as to how soon the bridge crew can mingle with passengers, or even other crew, would depend on the company's covid plan.

Edited August 31, 2021 by chengkp75

[chengkp75]

It is also sometimes referred to as "code red", or "red zone".

Edited August 31, 2021 by chengkp75

[home-mom]

Received this after our excursion today. 

[BermudaBound2014]

Thank you for sharing the letter. It helps to explain why Encore is code yellow. Any/all updates are appreciated. Sending you lots of positive vibes that you are not a close contact.