A ship is profitable at 17% capacity?

[nocl]

13 hours ago, dandee2 said:

Those ships are run like businesses. in any good year they pay almost no income tax anyway. They are running at a lost which in all probability will be spread over many years. No worry about the cruise line, they are doing jus fine.

 

The cruise line basically pay no income tax any year due to where they are incorporated and the marine status of their revenue. In the US income tax is only paid on the Alaska land tour business.

[grandgeezer]

13 hours ago, dandee2 said:

Those ships are run like businesses. in any good year they pay almost no income tax anyway. They are running at a lost which in all probability will be spread over many years. No worry about the cruise line, they are doing jus fine.

 

If just fine means they are losing less money than before, then you are right, they are doing just fine. At some point, they have to turn a profit or cruising will be no more. When that time will come, nobody knows.

[the penguins]

1 hour ago, jg51 said:

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Thanks, "fstuff1," for your many interesting observations.

 

We have long disbelieved the rumor about cruise-ship food being "ground up and fed to the fishes."  Some food, yes, but most of it (we believe) is used in two other ways:

 

(1)  Some [probably most] of it goes to the crew's "mess."

 

(2)  Some of it goes to "creative" chefs who know how to "recycle" it for guests' meals.  For example, if 90% of a huge roast goes unserved to guests, a chef will trim away the outer 10% (which was exposed to the air), leaving about 4/5 of the original meat to be (a) sliced for sandwiches, (b) ground for burgers, (c) etc..

 

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May we ask, "Stockjock," what you mean by "NYE"?  It looks like something having to do with New York, but we have never seen that term in our (long) lives.  Thank you.

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Food recycling has been raised on numerous occasions, most recently for me on the 2019 Silhoutte TA in a discussion with the hotel director :

1) any food you can see is "waste" and is discarded at the end of it's display life - time varies depending upon the food.

2) no food waste is discharged into the sea.

3) crew food is totally separate nothing prepared for guests is fed to the crew.

 

[Virga]

19 minutes ago, the penguins said:

Food recycling has been raised on numerous occasions, most recently for me on the 2019 Silhoutte TA in a discussion with the hotel director :

1) any food you can see is "waste" and is discarded at the end of it's display life - time varies depending upon the food.

2) no food waste is discharged into the sea.

3) crew food is totally separate nothing prepared for guests is fed to the crew.

 

 

That last seems especially ridiculous in current times.  I wonder if they've allowed some leeway for the current situation.  I've definitely (recently) seen crew serving themselves right before close at the buffet on other lines, not sure if that's normal or am exception to reduce waste right now.  

[the penguins]

6 minutes ago, Virga said:

 

That last seems especially ridiculous in current times.  I wonder if they've allowed some leeway for the current situation.  I've definitely (recently) seen crew serving themselves right before close at the buffet on other lines, not sure if that's normal or am exception to reduce waste right now.  

On other lines? Not Celebrity.

[Virga]

8 minutes ago, the penguins said:

On other lines? Not Celebrity.

 

What I meant was, I happened to see that happen on a recent cruise, and I wondered if that was business as usual on that line, or if they were only allowing it as waste mitigation due to strange times.  It's not something I'd noticed on prior cruises on ANY line, and I frequently grab a plate right before the buffet closes.

[Baron Barracuda]

Don't know what their targeted load levels are, and if they're coming in light whether it's low demand or heavier late cancellations thanks to Cruise With Confidence.  Doubt they would ever cancel a sailing for low bookings though.  It goes against the message they're trying to send that cruising is returning to normal.

 

On a pre-pandemic earnings call Jason Liberty estimated break-even's (variable costs only) ranged from 30% on newer / larger vessels to 50% on older / smaller.  Summit would fall into the latter group.  Operating with fewer staff and sailing less fuel intensive itineraries would help.  

 

 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Virga said:

 

That last seems especially ridiculous in current times.  I wonder if they've allowed some leeway for the current situation.  I've definitely (recently) seen crew serving themselves right before close at the buffet on other lines, not sure if that's normal or am exception to reduce waste right now.  

you have some crew members that have access to and can eat in passenger venues.

 

The vessel sanitation program has very tight restrictions that prevent food that was prepared and put out in one venue, from be removed and reused. Very tight controls on food once it is prepared related to both time and temperature.

 

Food consumed in the crew mess is food prepared for the crew mess.

[jg51]

17 hours ago, the penguins said:

Food recycling has been raised on numerous occasions, most recently for me on the 2019 Silhoutte TA in a discussion with the hotel director :

1) any food you can see is "waste" and is discarded at the end of it's display life - time varies depending upon the food.

2) no food waste is discharged into the sea.

3) crew food is totally separate nothing prepared for guests is fed to the crew.

 

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Hello, "penguins." We realize that you truly believe what the Hotel Director said, but we do not believe it.  We believe that either he/she was misinformed or was not telling the truth.  Of course, we cannot prove this to you.

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17 hours ago, Virga said:

 

That last seems especially ridiculous in current times.  I wonder if they've allowed some leeway for the current situation.  I've definitely (recently) seen crew serving themselves right before close at the buffet on other lines, not sure if that's normal or am exception to reduce waste right now.  

.

We agree, "Virga."  (See below about "crew serving themselves.")

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14 hours ago, nocl said:

[1] you have some crew members that have access to and can eat in passenger venues.

 

[2]  The vessel sanitation program has very tight restrictions that prevent food that was prepared and put out in one venue, from be removed and reused. Very tight controls on food once it is prepared related to both time and temperature.  Food consumed in the crew mess is food prepared for the crew mess.

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Regarding [1] ... Yes, you are right.  All uniformed crew members and all entertainers are permitted to dine in the buffet restaurant.  (Their dining there, rather than in the crew's mess, is one of the main reasons that the buffet is open for dinner.)  They go to the buffet throughout the night hours, not just near 9:30 PM.

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Regarding [2] ... We realize that you truly believe what you have heard/read about this, but we do not believe it.  It is simply not credible to us, because such a degree of waste would be totally unnecessary and unconscionable.

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[the penguins]

2 hours ago, jg51 said:

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Hello, "penguins." We realize that you truly believe what the Hotel Director said, but we do not believe it.  We believe that either he/she was misinformed or was not telling the truth.  Of course, we cannot prove this to you.

.

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We agree, "Virga."  (See below about "crew serving themselves.")

.

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Regarding [1] ... Yes, you are right.  All uniformed crew members and all entertainers are permitted to dine in the buffet restaurant.  (Their dining there, rather than in the crew's mess, is one of the main reasons that the buffet is open for dinner.)  They go to the buffet throughout the night hours, not just near 9:30 PM.

.

Regarding [2] ... We realize that you truly believe what you have heard/read about this, but we do not believe it.  It is simply not credible to us, because such a degree of waste would be totally unnecessary and unconscionable.

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Heard, read, and seen. We did 5 B2B on Solstice part of which included a daily coffee morning session with the Environmental Officer. On one day we had a very informative discussion on food preparation, waste etc followed by a tour of the facilities that are normally "off limits" to passengers to see how everything is handled. Ships are subject to inspections without notice to ensure standards are maintained. 

[paulh84]

If you’re near any of the areas with coffee service when they close down for the day, you will notice that any open half and half, milk, etc is dumped down the drain.
 

If I remember correctly on a tour we did they told us that dairy products like half and half have to be discarded 5 hours after they are opened. 

[graphicguy]

20 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

Jason Liberty, the CFO of RCG, mentioned a few of those figures in loose terms on earnings calls. Although crew salary is not particularly high, many (if any?) of the ships sailing now have a 100% manned crew onboard so the number is skewed either way. 

This was on the EDGE back in August, sailing 40% capacity or about 1,100 guests.  Same deal…full buffet.  Asked the concierge about the leftovers from the restaurants, including the buffet.  He said they were serving the crew the same meals as we were getting.  So, given I think the crew and guest ratio was roughly 1:1 on that sailing, I don’t think there was probably much in the way of food waste if they were feeding both crew and guests the same thing.

[Virga]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

This was on the EDGE back in August, sailing 40% capacity or about 1,100 guests.  Same deal…full buffet.  Asked the concierge about the leftovers from the restaurants, including the buffet.  He said they were serving the crew the same meals as we were getting.  So, given I think the crew and guest ratio was roughly 1:1 on that sailing, I don’t think there was probably much in the way of food waste if they were feeding both crew and guests the same thing.

 

That makes quite a lot of sense to me - and allows what jg51 said to be completely true without horrific waste.  They prepare enough 'passenger food' to serve all pax no matter where they might choose to eat, and only discard what has actually been finished for service.  The remaining prepared trays that are never needed for passengers are later finished/heated and served to crew.  

 

I fully understand the necessity of discarding dishes that have sat in the temperature danger zone for the maximum amount of time.  It still bothers me a bit to think that crew wouldn't be allowed / encouraged to serve from that while the food is still safe, but really, a tray or two of each dish is likely only a small fraction of what has been prepped in advance.  

[nocl]

3 hours ago, jg51 said:

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Hello, "penguins." We realize that you truly believe what the Hotel Director said, but we do not believe it.  We believe that either he/she was misinformed or was not telling the truth.  Of course, we cannot prove this to you.

.

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We agree, "Virga."  (See below about "crew serving themselves.")

.

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Regarding [1] ... Yes, you are right.  All uniformed crew members and all entertainers are permitted to dine in the buffet restaurant.  (Their dining there, rather than in the crew's mess, is one of the main reasons that the buffet is open for dinner.)  They go to the buffet throughout the night hours, not just near 9:30 PM.

.

Regarding [2] ... We realize that you truly believe what you have heard/read about this, but we do not believe it.  It is simply not credible to us, because such a degree of waste would be totally unnecessary and unconscionable.

.

Do a a search for vessel sanitation program. You will find the current manual that the cruise lines must follow. Provides in great detail how food must be handled on it is prepared. Yes there is waste, but it is a low cost compared to the cost of food born illness which the rules are in place to prevent.