Updated terms covering positive test on ships

[newcruise]

Just checked the Cunard website, FYI:

https://www.cunard.com/en-us/the-cunard-experience/sailing-with-confidence/our-assurance-to-you#insurance

Looking to book? 

Correct as of January 6, 2022.

 

 

”In the event of testing positive on board.

Similar to the protocols for all international travel, should a guest test positive for Covid-19 whilst on board, they and their close contacts will isolate for their and other guests’ well-being. This will be for either the duration of the required isolation, or to the next port of call, or to the scheduled port of disembarkation.

Any instances of positive tests on board will be managed by our on board medical teams in conjunction with local port authority / Port Health requirements and protocols to determine the most appropriate course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land or to other forms of travel and some ports, such as those in Spain, require guests and their close contacts who have tested positive to disembark to continue the period of isolation ashore in that country.

In situations where guests are required to disembark the ship, we shall always work with the local authorities and the guests’ insurance company to secure the most appropriate accommodations to continue the period of isolation. In most instances, these will be pre-determined hotels that have been identified as ones able to accommodate positive cases of Covid-19.  Once the isolation period is complete, guests would then need to arrange travel to return to their country of residence. Our dedicated support team will provide ongoing support to any guests in these circumstances.

If guests are required to isolate/quarantine during their time on board, they will be given a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) pro-rated for the duration of their isolation/quarantine period.  This FCC can be used on any new booking made and is valid for two years from the date of issue.”

[Interestedcruisefan]

11 minutes ago, newcruise said:

Just checked the Cunard website, FYI:

https://www.cunard.com/en-us/the-cunard-experience/sailing-with-confidence/our-assurance-to-you#insurance

Looking to book? 

Correct as of January 6, 2022.

 

 

”In the event of testing positive on board.

Similar to the protocols for all international travel, should a guest test positive for Covid-19 whilst on board, they and their close contacts will isolate for their and other guests’ well-being. This will be for either the duration of the required isolation, or to the next port of call, or to the scheduled port of disembarkation.

Any instances of positive tests on board will be managed by our on board medical teams in conjunction with local port authority / Port Health requirements and protocols to determine the most appropriate course of action. The framework of protocols for cruise ships can differ slightly to those on land or to other forms of travel and some ports, such as those in Spain, require guests and their close contacts who have tested positive to disembark to continue the period of isolation ashore in that country.

In situations where guests are required to disembark the ship, we shall always work with the local authorities and the guests’ insurance company to secure the most appropriate accommodations to continue the period of isolation. In most instances, these will be pre-determined hotels that have been identified as ones able to accommodate positive cases of Covid-19.  Once the isolation period is complete, guests would then need to arrange travel to return to their country of residence. Our dedicated support team will provide ongoing support to any guests in these circumstances.

If guests are required to isolate/quarantine during their time on board, they will be given a non-refundable Future Cruise Credit (FCC) pro-rated for the duration of their isolation/quarantine period.  This FCC can be used on any new booking made and is valid for two years from the date of issue.”

So based on the above the guests and contacts pay for the quarantine abroad and the transfers home if they test positive. 

 

And the ship gives you FCC for any of the cruise you miss.

 

And thats somehow described as

 

"Sailing with confidence - our assurance to you" 

 

I would describe it as:

 

"Test positive on board and you cover all the costs.  Don't say you weren't warned!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So based on the above the guests and contacts pay for the quarantine abroad and the transfers home?

 

And the ship gives you FCC for any of the cruise you miss.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's my take on it. I called Cunard to ask about the possibility of being put off the ship (because of what I read in item 6 in the new passage contract, which is in a post on page 22), and she said no, I would be isolated on board. But this item from the website reinforces what the passage contract says.

 

Any experienced Cunard traveler knows the value of shoreside advice... So what it comes down to is that you could be put off the ship and Cunard may help you "make arrangements" but they do not pay for any of that. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

23 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

That's my take on it. I called Cunard to ask about the possibility of being put off the ship (because of what I read in item 6 in the new passage contract, which is in a post on page 22), and she said no, I would be isolated on board. But this item from the website reinforces what the passage contract says.

 

Any experienced Cunard traveler knows the value of shoreside advice... So what it comes down to is that you could be put off the ship and Cunard may help you "make arrangements" but they do not pay for any of that. 

Isnt it good they've assured everybody that will happen !

 

Would hate to see what "sailing with no confidence" looks like

Edited January 6, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, showingdiva said:

 

I quite agree.  She may only be floating metal, but I do feel for the ship.   As for these passengers in particular, it was only time until photos of sad compensation faces appeared - and thousands of comments from DM experts on cruise ships.

 

 

 

To be fair, the couple did not say anything about compensation. The writer mentioned the cost and it was in the headline, but we don't know if the couple whined about how much they paid. That could be the writer's spin on things. And I do wish the writer would learn the difference between a BOAT and a SHIP!

[Victoria2]

No one can say the company hasn't  'spelt it out'. 

 

Up to individuals to book, to transfer, to defer or to cancel. Slightly hard on those who can't do this in the immediate timescale but then anyone taking a cruise at the moment should be prepared for the whatsit to hit the fan.

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, Victoria2 said:

No one can say the company hasn't  'spelt it out'. 

 

Up to individuals to book, to transfer, to defer or to cancel. Slightly hard on those who can't do this in the immediate timescale but then anyone taking a cruise at the moment should be prepared for the whatsit to hit the fan.

TBH they've only spelt out the cost

 

Not the conditions or quality

 

You have to kind of read between the lines a bit for that don't you think?

 

We obviously have the advantage of knowing a bit more on here

 

Those of us who believe the reports that is

 

 

[Victoria2]

15 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

TBH they've only spelt out the cost

 

Not the conditions or quality

 

You have to kind of read between the lines a bit for that don't you think?

 

We obviously have the advantage of knowing a bit more on here

 

Those of us who believe the reports that is

 

 

I think, you have a large wooden spoon somewhere! 🙂

 

 

[Dermotsgirl]

7 minutes ago, kohl1957 said:

I feel like I am on a Wine Appreciation site that has been invaded with people with no interest in wine, indeed have sworn off it (for very good reasons) and just can't wait to tell those who ordered 4 cases of the perils of stuck corks and sediment. 

 

If you are not presently booked on or actively considering a Cunard cruise or crossing (and for all your own "right" reasons).. fine.  But it would be nice if you stopped dotting the "i"s and crossing "t"s that are not yours to dot or cross or pertaining to your cruise. Those of us who are really confirmed, tickets in hand and having done their due diligence and are as prepared and aware as they wish to be, and seem to be far less obsessed by this "stuff" than those who are not. You made your choice, we made ours.  Oddly, I think our knickers are in less of twist. Mine feel quite comfortable actually.

As a new to Cunard cruiser ( I’m booked on QV in May), do I have to pass some sort of test so that it can be confirmed I’m not an invader?
 

If I do go on my cruise, I’m sure my shipmates will be very nice, but some of the posts on the Cunard area of the board have always made me wonder, for the 18 years I’ve been a member of Cruise Critic 

[3rdGenCunarder]

17 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

TBH they've only spelt out the cost

 

Not the conditions or quality

 

You have to kind of read between the lines a bit for that don't you think?

 

We obviously have the advantage of knowing a bit more on here

 

Those of us who believe the reports that is

 

 

 

The section of the passage contract that has been posted here is new. It was sent to passengers the last week in December, at least for those of us on the Feb22 NY-NY cruise. The information quoted from the website is correct as of 1/6/2022. A few days ago, it was correct as of a date in December, IIRC. 

 

So for those of us who haven't departed yet, Cunard's options have been spelt out clearly. But I doubt it was as clear for those who sailed in December. This cruise was "deja vu all over again," like the start of the pandemic with conditions on the ship and in ports changing daily. Having gone through that, Cunard have updated their legalese to protect themselves against the expenses of dealing with positive/infected passengers. 

 

[Victoria2]

6 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

As a new to Cunard cruiser ( I’m booked on QV in May), do I have to pass some sort of test so that it can be confirmed I’m not an invader?
 

If I do go on my cruise, I’m sure my shipmates will be very nice, but some of the posts on the Cunard area of the board have always made me wonder, for the 18 years I’ve been a member of Cruise Critic 

You have a cruise booked so how can you be an invader?

The only 'er' you might consider yourself to be after your cruise is a 'Cunard...er'.

 

I REALLY hope you have a wonderful cruise, meet lots of lovely people and will book another Cunard cruise because you will have had such a fantastic time on which ever cruise you've booked on.🙂

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Cunard have updated their legalese to protect themselves against the expenses of dealing with positive/infected passengers. 

 

And is it not a good thing that their policy is now very clear?

 

In principle, I think this policy is absolutely as it should be. Victoria said in post 580 that cruising at present comes with the potential for the ‘whatsit to hit the fan’.  And it always has.  That is what insurance is for.  It would be foolhardy of a cruise line to offer to meet any costs associated with unforeseen circumstances.  That would potentially be financially ruinous for the cruise line and would allow those passengers who so wished to abrogate their personal responsibility for having insurance to cover contingencies.  Is there any expectation that a cruise line would meet the medical, accommodation, onward travel and other costs associated with a passenger and their party members who had to disembark mid-cruise for any other medical reason?  I think not.  The cruise line would liaise via their port agent with local authorities (and potentially insurance companies) to facilitate arrangements, but wouldn’t pay for them.

 

From what I have read on these boards, US travellers can obtain insurance that covers costs associated with being disembarked following a positive test or as a close contact, both for passengers and their immediate travel companions.  I don’t know what the situation for passengers from other countries is.  In reality, the situation can be more complicated for passengers from the UK.  Megabear carried out a huge amount of research when disembarking first started happening and determined that few, if any, UK insurers would cover the costs for immediate travel companions who did not test positive, although they would for the insured person themself if they tested positive.  Looking at the UK version of the Cunard site to which the above link leads and the associated insurance section, it is clear that the insurer recommended by Cunard in the UK still does not provide the requisite cover for travel companions who do not test positive.

 

So, in my view, the loose end which remains is about travel insurance for UK passengers in this situation.  Hence, it is absolutely right that Cunard should continue to engage with UK insurers on a case-by-case basis to address that.  Ideally, UK insurers should amend their policies, especially the insurer recommended by Cunard.  But the inference of the earlier threads on this subject was that, on a case-by-case basis and as a last resort, CCL would ensure no UK passenger was ever out of pocket.  But, I don’t think they’ll ever put that in writing on their website.

 

Albeit not by Cunard as far as I know, plenty of passengers and their companions have been disembarked in these circumstances in Spain (and Italy and Portugal) over the past couple of weeks, including from CCL companies such as P&O and Aida.  Some of those passengers are probably now back home, many others will be released from quarantine soon and travelling home.  Hopefully, we will hear first-hand from some of them on here whether their insurance companies met the bills.  Given all of the hysterical social / media coverage of disembarkations and quarantine recently, I’m sure we’ll also hear if any were obliged to meet all the costs themselves!

 

In sum, then, I think the policy is absolutely right.  What it means in practice, certainly for UK cruisers, will doubtless become clearer in the near future.  In the meantime, and assuming other CCL UK lines place similar text on their websites, no travellers should be in any doubt of the potential for disembarkation and the policy on how the costs are met.

Edited January 6, 2022 by cruising.mark.uk
To correct a mistake.

[Interestedcruisefan]

 

Good post

 

But bearing in mind I'm all over this and had to ask the question - does that basically mean guests pay for everything?

 

Then no it's not very clear at all tbh Mark

 

It's a sail with confidence type statement that you think is reassuring you when in fact it's telling you if you test positive you are paying for everything - we think!!

 

Once you decipher it and add in a bit of knowledge about what's happening

 

Or will it be a guests fault for not deciphering it ?

 

We think we know what it means. Unsuspecting cruisers will not

 

It never even mentions who pays anywhere. Cost is deliberately left out

 

It's typical PR spin to try and hide a message thats not reassuring at all when you understand it

 

Thats a very deliberately  worded statement IMO that doesn't make things abundantly clear. 

 

Please read it again.

 

It tells you they will help you secure quarantine. It tells you they will help you find flights home. 

 

It does NOT make it clear you will be the one paying for all this!

 

It's far from clear

 

Tbf maybe I'm wrong and they will be paying?? 

 

Read it again and tell me the policy is now very clears as you state above in your post 

 

Be honest  Mark. It's deliberately misleading or at best deliberately unclear IMO

 

Am I wrong?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

15 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

And is it not a good thing that their policy is now very clear?

 

In principle, I think this policy is absolutely as it should be. Victoria said in post 580 that cruising at present comes with the potential for the ‘whatsit to hit the fan’.  And it always has.  That is what insurance is for.  It would be foolhardy of a cruise line to offer to meet any costs associated with unforeseen circumstances.  That would potentially be financially ruinous for the cruise line and would allow those passengers who so wished to abrogate their personal responsibility for having insurance to cover contingencies.  Is there any expectation that a cruise line would meet the medical, accommodation, onward travel and other costs associated with a passenger and their party members who had to disembark mid-cruise for any other medical reason?  I think not.  The cruise line would liaise via their port agent with local authorities (and potentially insurance companies) to facilitate arrangements, but wouldn’t pay for them.

 

From what I have read on these boards, US travellers can obtain insurance that covers costs associated with being disembarked following a positive test or as a close contact, both for passengers and their immediate travel companions.  I don’t know what the situation for passengers from other countries is.  In reality, the situation can be more complicated for passengers from the UK.  Megabear carried out a huge amount of research when disembarking first started happening and determined that few, if any, UK insurers would cover the costs for immediate travel companions who did not test positive, although they would for the insured person themself if they tested positive.  Looking at the UK version of the Cunard site to which the above link leads and the associated insurance section, it is clear that the insurer recommended by Cunard in the UK still does not provide the requisite cover for travel companions who do not test positive.

 

So, in my view, the loose end which remains is about travel insurance for UK passengers in this situation.  Hence, it is absolutely right that Cunard should continue to engage with UK insurers on a case-by-case basis to address that.  Ideally, UK insurers should amend their policies, especially the insurer recommended by Cunard.  But the inference of the earlier threads on this subject was that, on a case-by-case basis and as a last resort, CCL would ensure no UK passenger was ever out of pocket.  But, I don’t think they’ll ever put that in writing on their website.

 

Albeit not by Cunard as far as I know, plenty of passengers and their companions have been disembarked in these circumstances in Spain (and Italy and Portugal) over the past couple of weeks, including from CCL companies such as P&O and Aida.  Some of those passengers are probably now back home, many others will be released from quarantine soon and travelling home.  Hopefully, we will hear first-hand from some of them on here whether their insurance companies met the bills.  Given all of the hysterical social / media coverage of disembarkations and quarantine recently, I’m sure we’ll also hear if any were obliged to meet all the costs themselves!

 

In sum, then, I think the policy is absolutely right.  What it means in practice, certainly for UK cruisers, will doubtless become clearer in the near future.  In the meantime, and assuming other CCL UK lines place similar text on their websites, no travellers should be in any doubt of the potential for disembarkation and the policy on how the costs are met.

Hi Mark.  I spoke with my head office contact in Southampton today following the update on the P&O website which we discussed the other day.  I also raised the Iona/QM2 incidents and highlighted the difference between the outcomes for travellers on both vessels.  The tone from Carnival House has changed somewhat since my last conversations early December and, I'm sad to say not for the better interests of the passenger:

 

Basically I was told disembarkion due to covid is  a very sensitive issue and of course a massive worry for anyone.  There is a dedicated Care team calling out to those involved but resources are sometimes limited andnit may be a case of all hands to the deck if there are major incidents.

 

There was an issue with a hotel (I mentioned our friend Swanseasailor by way of example) which was not suitable so Carnival House stepped in with the Spanish authorities and had this immediately upgraded as soon as they were aware. (You may recall Swanseasailor stating the passengers were threatening a mass walkout in Tenerife due to their problems).

 

It was confirmed that dependant on the port, it would  dictate whether the guest has to disembark, so of course this will always remain a worry if you are willing to travel. Of course though Carnival House will endeavour to make this as painless as possible for any guests that find themselves in this very taxing and upsetting situation.  Missing from this very frank conversation was the previous confirmation that no guest would be out of pocket.  I am following it up.

 

As an aside I spoke to my travel agent yesterday who is a personal friend. She had one of the very first passengers offloaded back in October as a client. I asked if she had any feedback from them that might be useful and she informed me her client had some sort of order against them stopping them from speaking about their experiences. They did not travel with either P&O or Cunard but as discussed elsewhere reports are few and far between in the public apart from stories like this one in the Mail.  

 

I think Omicron is causing a serious rethink by the cruise lines as the volume of passengers being offloaded has grown enormously.  There is a couple of posts on the CC Marella and Princess boards giving breakdowns of costs incurred by passengers, one in the Canaries and one in the Caribbean.  They are very high.

 

The discussions with UK insurers need to proceed pretty rapidly before the Spring cruises to Europe start.  From my research I believe Canadians, Australians and New Zealand residents will not be able to insure against Covid quarantine either.

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Megabear I respect everything you say on here

 

Do you believe the Cunard statement above makes it clear to the general public who is paying for quarantine and transfers home?

 

Obviously you can tell I don't?

 

I feel I only deciphered it as I no longer trust the transparency of cruise line speak tbh 

 

What do you think?

 

Ps I bet you are glad you didn't have to quarantine in Barbados. Even with your great contacts!

Edited January 6, 2022 by Interestedcruisefan

[Megabear2]

ICF: Cunard are dealing with multiple nationalities on their cruises, far more so than any other line I have ever sailed with.  As a result they are trying to cover anywhere up to 50 different sets of insurance and country laws in their statements and protocols - I am not exaggerating this as on my last QM2 grand voyage in 2019 that was actually the number of nationalities onboard at the time of the Captain's cocktail party.  On my own table of eight were a Dutch lady, a New Zealander, two Australians, two South Africans, a Scottish lady and myself. Whilst this is great in normal times trying to produce a policy suitable for all in a pandemic is nigh on impossible. Think of how many laws would be involved for this group alone if we were offloaded from the ship!

 

Under US law, for instance, you cannot compel a citizen to be insured whilst under UK and European law you can. For many years sailing on Cunard I have met Americans who rely on their own insurance back home often attached to credit card and bank accounts who find the idea of our travel insurance rather odd.  On my last Cunard cruise I talked to an Australian lady who had a pact with her husband that if one of them died they'd just leave them ashore to be disposed of because their insurance costs would be so high!  Cunard has different websites with different terms and conditions in a great many countries.  For instance only UK guests can book on the UK site but I know many UK residents who book through American agents for the better cancellation terms and often better OBC and cheaper prices.

 

Basically the new terms should not affect UK/European passengers in any way if they catch Covid and have a POSITIVE Covid PCR test.  Upon this happening a call to the insurance company should (if the company is a good one) result in immediate acceptance of the claim and direct dealings between your insurance company, medical assistance team and the cruise line care team including accommodation, medical and repatriation costs.  The passenger should have little to do.  However for the passengers removed with NEGATIVE tests they will encounter problems in around 95% of cases as the insurance will not cover immediate costs which presumably need to be met upfront.  In this case the passengers will be totally reliant on swift action from Cunard/their care team to liaise urgently with the insurance companies. During this period the UK/European passenger WILL have to meet the quarantine/medical costs themselves while the cruise line insurance company and the passengers' insurance company do battle with each other. Passengers need to fully aware if this and ensure they have sufficient funds, probably around £4,000 in Europe, more in other parts of the world available.

 

There are cases on other CC boards of families having to leave positive Covid passengers abroad alone as they could not meet these uninsured costs so were unable to stay together.

 

The new terms are acting assumedly very much to ensure all other nationalities who cannot be made to take compulsory travel insurance are fully aware that the risk and onus for costs are entirely on them and not Cunard.

 

It is a fair policy and statement of the situation but not I'm afraid for the UK/European guests who cannot actually purchase a policy of insurance to cover a negative quarantine scenario.

 

We are, once again, back to the buyer beware clause in the UK being somewhat insufficient and we return once more to my original question of asking passengers to take a financial risk the cruise lines are aware of and making their contracts somewhat onesided against the passengers.

 

[Megabear2]

3 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

As a new to Cunard cruiser ( I’m booked on QV in May), do I have to pass some sort of test so that it can be confirmed I’m not an invader?
 

If I do go on my cruise, I’m sure my shipmates will be very nice, but some of the posts on the Cunard area of the board have always made me wonder, for the 18 years I’ve been a member of Cruise Critic 

I'm a Diamond Cunarder and still feel unwelcome on these boards at times.  A lot of it I think comes down to different interpretations of what people should expect. Some of it is our ignorance to each other of how other nationalities perceive things and also lack of understanding that different Cunard rules apply in different countries. I just rise above it now.  Incidentally some of my best friends around the world are people I've met on Cunard cruises so I'm not biased to anyone.

 

Hopefully you will love Queen Victoria, she is a beautiful ship with a happy crew.  The mix of guests will also be less intense. It is Queen Mary 2 that seems to provoke most people for reasons that are not clear!!

[lissie]

As a  New Zealander who has recently got an insurance quote for travel including cruising overseas, I can confirm that I can get NO cover for  anything relating to Covid if it happens on a "multi day cruise" - that's with "cruise cover".  That includes  medical costs, additional travel costs due to quarantine. I can get the equivalent cover for land-based travel for countries who are not on the NZ government's "do not travel" list. Currently everywhere is on that list - but we expect that to change radically in the next few months 

[starquake]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

ICF: Cunard are dealing with multiple nationalities on their cruises, far more so than any other line I have ever sailed with. 

 

We are, once again, back to the buyer beware clause in the UK being somewhat insufficient and we return once more to my original question of asking passengers to take a financial risk the cruise lines are aware of and making their contracts somewhat onesided against the passengers.

 

Agreed on this first point, QE on 13th Dec had American, Canadian, Irish, Dutch and English passengers on it on a ex-Southampton return tour (from people we met).   This partically did improve our holiday experince, as we got to meet lots of nice people in quiz and other activities we joined in with.   We 100% preferred the mix of guests not being all English on what was our first Cunard cruise (we have now booked 2 more).

 

Cruising has a risk associated agreed, we personally are not cancelling a jot at moment, we have the same underwriter as Cunard reccomend on an annual policy due to medical exemption we had to quote for.     But agreed, it does not cover the single party quarentining, but does cover "care/visits" to others when they become sick, which is arguably similar in intent to quanrentine of a guest.   I suspect (having worked in Insurance for many years) that if taken to court this would result in a precedent being set that they should cover this, but obviously they don't want to cover this.    Neither do Cunard.   It's bad underwriting and will need fixing.

 

We are lucky however in we are in the financial position to be able to cover any unforseen costs up to a "reasonable" level, and thats no reason to cancel our holidays in the short term given we only have Hamberg and Carribean booked.    Personally if not covered and rejected by the line, I'd just see if my "legal" cover on my other policys would take up the case against the insurer/cunard to reover any unforseen costs, and that could get very costly fast.

 

However, it is making us reevalate initiarys we would LIKE to book this summer for our likely summer holidays (as we've had to postpone another holiday in May to US) personally, and we will probably end up booking Carribean and Seacation itiniarys OVER Spanish/Porugese ones whilst the "off ship" quarentine policy remains in those countries.    I don't see us booking itiniarys with ANY CCL line until fixed, so sorry Princess you likely won't get our money this summer unless you offer a Seacation.    It is this point that should concern the cruise lines, and personally I think Cunard should switch to seacations on one of the ships this summer if at all possible, as they would likely get a booking from "this" customer if they did.

 

 

[Megabear2]

I have had multiple discussions with Great Lakes as the underwriters of a great number of the travel policies on sale in the UK.  These discussions were carried out with my "legal" hat on and backed by questions from my OH who owns a financial compliance company having worked for major insurance companies and brokers for over 45 years. 

 

No matter which company they are underwriting policies for they stated quarantine cover relies on a positive PCR test. I did discuss care/visits and also curtailment cover. The first they said would be rejected for Covid (the positive person being in quarantine could not receive care from you as an individual or be visited as they would be in isolation) and the second would depend very much on the cost of your cruise and how far into it you were for the payment you would receive. 

 

A £5,000 curtailment amount quoted in a policy would not apply to a cruise you paid £1,500 for as of course the maximum amount covered would be your financial outlay, ie £1,500 and therefore reduces by £x per day down to zero.  Many did not understand this and thought their curtailment amount was £5,000.

 

Based on figures being quoted elsewhere the potential cost of a negative offload would be around £4,000pp in a European port. This figure would cover accommodation, food and sustenance, covid tests, nursing/medical staff attending to carry out the tests, transport by ambulance/car to the quarantine site, return to an airport and an economy flight home.

 

It should be remembered that all members of a travelling party could be regarded as a close contact if they have for instance sat on a bus or tour coach with a positive tester or maybe been too close on a table in the restaurant or bar.  Under these circumstances a couple need access to around £8,000 and a family or larger group even more.  This happened to a family group of 6 travelling on Marella in the Canaries and a decision was made to send 4 people home and leave one negative tester to assist their positive son.  

 

Although the Cunard Caribbean cruisers have been lucky this time around it should also be remembered Queen Victoria will not always be sitting around to act as a support ship.  We are aware a number of late positive testers from Queen Mary 2 were able to transfer to Victoria to serve their quarantine there before Cunard flies them home to the US/Canada etc.  

 

Many from other lines have not been so lucky.  Cunard have done well, but by the skin of their pants.  They even had a light passenger count on the Britannia P&O Christmas cruise so had spare capacity on the charter flights back to the UK for use by Cunard.

Edited January 7, 2022 by Megabear2

[stratton007]

10 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

ICF: Cunard are dealing with multiple nationalities on their cruises, far more so than any other line I have ever sailed with.  As a result they are trying to cover anywhere up to 50 different sets of insurance and country laws in their statements and protocols - I am not exaggerating this as on my last QM2 grand voyage in 2019 that was actually the number of nationalities onboard at the time of the Captain's cocktail party.  On my own table of eight were a Dutch lady, a New Zealander, two Australians, two South Africans, a Scottish lady and myself. Whilst this is great in normal times trying to produce a policy suitable for all in a pandemic is nigh on impossible. Think of how many laws would be involved for this group alone if we were offloaded from the ship!

 

Under US law, for instance, you cannot compel a citizen to be insured whilst under UK and European law you can. For many years sailing on Cunard I have met Americans who rely on their own insurance back home often attached to credit card and bank accounts who find the idea of our travel insurance rather odd.  On my last Cunard cruise I talked to an Australian lady who had a pact with her husband that if one of them died they'd just leave them ashore to be disposed of because their insurance costs would be so high!  Cunard has different websites with different terms and conditions in a great many countries.  For instance only UK guests can book on the UK site but I know many UK residents who book through American agents for the better cancellation terms and often better OBC and cheaper prices.

 

Basically the new terms should not affect UK/European passengers in any way if they catch Covid and have a POSITIVE Covid PCR test.  Upon this happening a call to the insurance company should (if the company is a good one) result in immediate acceptance of the claim and direct dealings between your insurance company, medical assistance team and the cruise line care team including accommodation, medical and repatriation costs.  The passenger should have little to do.  However for the passengers removed with NEGATIVE tests they will encounter problems in around 95% of cases as the insurance will not cover immediate costs which presumably need to be met upfront.  In this case the passengers will be totally reliant on swift action from Cunard/their care team to liaise urgently with the insurance companies. During this period the UK/European passenger WILL have to meet the quarantine/medical costs themselves while the cruise line insurance company and the passengers' insurance company do battle with each other. Passengers need to fully aware if this and ensure they have sufficient funds, probably around £4,000 in Europe, more in other parts of the world available.

 

There are cases on other CC boards of families having to leave positive Covid passengers abroad alone as they could not meet these uninsured costs so were unable to stay together.

 

The new terms are acting assumedly very much to ensure all other nationalities who cannot be made to take compulsory travel insurance are fully aware that the risk and onus for costs are entirely on them and not Cunard.

 

It is a fair policy and statement of the situation but not I'm afraid for the UK/European guests who cannot actually purchase a policy of insurance to cover a negative quarantine scenario.

 

We are, once again, back to the buyer beware clause in the UK being somewhat insufficient and we return once more to my original question of asking passengers to take a financial risk the cruise lines are aware of and making their contracts somewhat onesided against the passengers.

 

Simple question, I had thought by taking UK Insurance cover (not with Cunard’s recommended insurer - mine starts with Stay!) for my wife and myself that we would be mutually covered for all Covid events as we obviously ensured this was included. The question of isolation and quarantine was not a factor when we booked the cruise and paid for the insurance but it would appear that this is the grey area here concerning the “non infected” person even if its between husband and wife. Is my understanding of all the above posts correct?

[CABINET]

Does anybody have any idea why Spain insists on passengers getting off the ship even when they might be completely asymptomatic and perfectly well enough to quarantine in their cabins until getting back to the UK.

 

This is a real concern for me as we have a cruise to the Canaries booked.  I do not fly and do very badly in rooms with no access to the outside.  Both with claustrophobia and because rooms with no fresh air cause my asthma to flair up. Tthe idea of being put into any old hotel that suits the Spanish authorities is a serious worry. 

 

I wish we had never booked the blasted cruise now and we have paid a very substantial deposit.

 

I cannot understand why Spain would want to take the risk of having to care for these passengers in their hospitals if they become very ill.

 

 

 

[Megabear2]

Yes, you are totally correct. Your insurance company is definitely not one that pays out unless there is a POSITIVE test. They deal with it on a "case by case" basis only.  In the original Covid on Iona P&O board I listed the results of my research with virtually every top UK insurer, you may be able to find it still.

[Megabear2]

4 minutes ago, CABINET said:

Does anybody have any idea why Spain insists on passengers getting off the ship even when they might be completely asymptomatic and perfectly well enough to quarantine in their cabins until getting back to the UK.

 

This is a real concern for me as we have a cruise to the Canaries booked.  I do not fly and do very badly in rooms with no access to the outside.  Both with claustrophobia and because rooms with no fresh air cause my asthma to flair up. Tthe idea of being put into any old hotel that suits the Spanish authorities is a serious worry. 

 

I wish we had never booked the blasted cruise now and we have paid a very substantial deposit.

 

I cannot understand why Spain would want to take the risk of having to care for these passengers in their hospitals if they become very ill.

 

 

 

The terms that cruise ships are allowed to sail under in European waters were devised back before the UK staycations set sail in the summer.  They state quite clearly passengers should be offloaded.  Spain, Portugal et al are actually just following the guidelines.  They are not alone, anywhere in Europe should be doing the same.  The Spanish situation is coming to the fore due to many lines running Canaries cruises at present because of the winter months.

 

Once cruises start visiting more European countries we will see more offloading ashore there.  Playing devil's advocate someone arriving into the UK to fly home who is positively tested onboard a ship under our now ending pre arrival testing regime would have had to quarantine at Southampton.

 

Spain and the rest of Europe are not dropping pre arrival testing so the risk of offloading remains high, hence Cunard/P&O finally (after months of my chasing for a "buyer beware clause") are finally doing the right thing and informing the passengers of the risk.

 

Personally I think since Omicron they have had little option as the gentle trickle of unlucky souls had become a stream with a river very likely.

[Megabear2]

30 minutes ago, stratton007 said:

Simple question, I had thought by taking UK Insurance cover (not with Cunard’s recommended insurer - mine starts with Stay!) for my wife and myself that we would be mutually covered for all Covid events as we obviously ensured this was included. The question of isolation and quarantine was not a factor when we booked the cruise and paid for the insurance but it would appear that this is the grey area here concerning the “non infected” person even if its between husband and wife. Is my understanding of all the above posts correct?

I've just double checked my research since offloading began. Staysure have apparently not to date accepted liability for negative offloading.  I know personally one person still battling with them from October. This doesn't mean of course that the person will not eventually get some recompense from them, but does highlight the need to have easy access to finance.  

 

On other forums people state they are having to meet all costs upfront and are using credit cards to do so.