Drink costs while in US waters

[KristinLM]

Wow! Who knew this question could be so nuanced.
Thank you, @chengkp75, I am most appreciative!

I hope my naivity will help someone else on the same cruises. We'll do that! Like you said: it shouldn't be too much (to bust the budget), but good to know. It won't feel so "money-grabby" when the background is understood.

Thank you, again, for your patience with a newbie.

[trivimp]

As far as budgeting, it will depend entirely on what you are drinking, but as an example: 

 

You order a drink that costs $12 (which is a fairly average price)

Seattle sales tax is 10.25% (I got that number off Google, I don't know if it's current, but just as an example)

Your cost will be $12 x 10.25% = $1.23

 

You won't be charged tax while the ship is underway & past the 3-mile point that chengkp discusses, even though parts of the inside passage are certainly closer than 3 miles.  

[KeithJenner]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, from what I understand, it is only Spain that chooses to do this, though other countries could.

It does happen elsewhere. We once had it sailing from Venice (on one leg of a B2B, the other leg went to Turkey).

 

It certainly happens more from Spain than elsewhere, but that may be because more EU only cruises go from there than elsewhere. There are more non EU options in the Eastern Med.

[KristinLM]

Thanks for the breakdown, @trivimp! That is what I am doing! (as a group it can add up.)

This has been more a "wrap your brain around it" kind of exercise. Where I live, VAT is included in the given price of what you buy, so it is "invisible". I guess that is why we never even considered it.

We are on the same Alaskan voyage. We are really looking forward to it!

[The Traveling Man]

49 minutes ago, KristinLM said:

Thanks for the breakdown, @trivimp! That is what I am doing! (as a group it can add up.)

This has been more a "wrap your brain around it" kind of exercise. Where I live, VAT is included in the given price of what you buy, so it is "invisible". I guess that is why we never even considered it.

We are on the same Alaskan voyage. We are really looking forward to it!

America seems to be out of step with the rest of the world in many areas.  Think metric vs feet and miles, Fahrenheit vs Celsius, etc.  In America we have become accustomed to prices quoted as base price plus tax, title, and license.  In most stores in most US cities the price you see is only a part of the price you pay.  There could be an additional 5% to 10% (or more) sales tax added at the register.  In restaurants and some other service industry settings customers are expected to offer 15% to 20% additional as a gratuity.  In other parts of the world, such as much of Europe, the price you see is the price you pay.  The merchant is responsible for paying any taxes due, and is expected to pay his or her employees a sufficient wage so that tipping is not required.  Consider the way NCL markets its cruises.  In the US, and perhaps in some other regions, the price quoted is just the base fare.  There are additional charges for taxes, port fees, service charges, gratuities for staff members, plus numerous fees for shore excursions, spa access, specialty dining, on other non-inclusive items.  Its just the nature of things, the way we have grown accustomed to things here as opposed to other parts of the world.

[KristinLM]

True, @The Traveling Man, we still tip ca. 10% here despite "fairer wages". I am also wrapping my mind around 20% being the "normal tipping" and not the "super-service tipping". I remember 10-15% being the norm.

The idea of "displaying taxes" is totally clear to me. We just bought plane tickets where the taxes and surcharges were more than the flight, itself. And the cruise was the same. Totally fair and clear.

I was just surprised by this added tax. The drink was $10 (list price) + $2 (20%) + $1 (10%). If we didn't have the drinks package, that is 1/3 more than the list price! 🤪 We prepaid the first 2, but the 3rd add-on was just a "surprise" (although to be fair it is in their documentation and I am not upset about it).

I am grateful for the patient clarifications for me and you all are awesome!

[The Traveling Man]

6 minutes ago, KristinLM said:

True, @The Traveling Man, we still tip ca. 10% here despite "fairer wages". I am also wrapping my mind around 20% being the "normal tipping" and not the "super-service tipping". I remember 10-15% being the norm.

The idea of "displaying taxes" is totally clear to me. We just bought plane tickets where the taxes and surcharges were more than the flight, itself. And the cruise was the same. Totally fair and clear.

I was just surprised by this added tax. The drink was $10 (list price) + $2 (20%) + $1 (10%). If we didn't have the drinks package, that is 1/3 more than the list price! 🤪 We prepaid the first 2, but the 3rd add-on was just a "surprise" (although to be fair it is in their documentation and I am not upset about it).

I am grateful for the patient clarifications for me and you all are awesome!

Thank you and others for being so understanding of this "nickel and dime" practice that seems to be so common in the US.  As I mentioned in a previous post, we were on the Star several years ago when the percentage of passengers from the UK was significantly higher that usual, and apparently many of them were accustomed to prices being quoted as "all inclusive."  WOW were so many of them so bent out of shape when they saw their bills for drinks.  Again, though, it may just have been the fact that the Star ran out of Guinness beer on "Guinness Day."

[AmazedByCruising]

2 hours ago, KeithJenner said:

he main example of the standard 7 day Epic round trip from Barcelona or Rome which doesn’t leave Schengen. Spanish VAT is charged on that whole cruise (or it was when I last sailed it and I’ve not heard that it has changed).

 

My last cruise visiting Spain mentioned the extra VAT, but that was only in their waters. Not the entire cruise. This seems like a nice deal for Spain 🙂 What if Italy wanted some extra income as well? 

[KristinLM]

@The Traveling Man, well it can be really challenging combining cultures. It's a tricky business.

 

On our last venture in the USA we (I) noticed a distinct difference in service when they knew we were European. It was definitely less attentive. We do tip--according to the local customs--and are aware of it in the USA. Unfortunately, our service was often lower when they knew than when they didn't (it changed when they heard our language switch--I speak American English). Disappointing, really.

 

Note to USA: NEVER run out of the preferred beer... for us it is Bavarian lagers and wheats (oh, and my beer language is German, so if I butcher the English terminology, I apologize)... 😉

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, KristinLM said:

@The Traveling Man, well it can be really challenging combining cultures. It's a tricky business.

 

On our last venture in the USA we (I) noticed a distinct difference in service when they knew we were European. It was definitely less attentive. We do tip--according to the local customs--and are aware of it in the USA. Unfortunately, our service was often lower when they knew than when they didn't (it changed when they heard our language switch--I speak American English). Disappointing, really.

 

Note to USA: NEVER run out of the preferred beer... for us it is Bavarian lagers and wheats (oh, and my beer language is German, so if I butcher the English terminology, I apologize)... 😉

Unfortunately, in the US, service is not a noted trait.  Its all about me, not about the customer.  The high point of customer service is "do you want fries with that?".

 

Fortunately, here in Maine we have many craft breweries (much like your German local breweries), and for me it is Dunkles or Marzens.  Unfortunately, the craft beer industry has gone way overboard on IPA's, but I am now seeing a revival of malty beers like reds, brown ales, and Scottish ales.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

My last cruise visiting Spain mentioned the extra VAT, but that was only in their waters. Not the entire cruise. This seems like a nice deal for Spain 🙂 What if Italy wanted some extra income as well? 

If you call at a non-EU port, then Spain can only charge VAT in their waters, or if the cruise did not originate in Spain.

[KristinLM]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Unfortunately, in the US, service is not a noted trait.  Its all about me, not about the customer.  The high point of customer service is "do you want fries with that?".

 

Fortunately, here in Maine we have many craft breweries (much like your German local breweries), and for me it is Dunkles or Marzens.  Unfortunately, the craft beer industry has gone way overboard on IPA's, but I am now seeing a revival of malty beers like reds, brown ales, and Scottish ales.

I have met all kinds and most people we meet are exceptionally friendly. We are so fortunate in that respect. We are also quite easy going--definitely not pseudo-royalty.

If my husband is offered fries at every meal he will be perfectly satisfied. Offering a milkshake with it could seal the deal. In that way, he is as easy to please as a 5 year old.

I do enjoy a good Dunkelbier. I cannot drink Pils et. al. and I once watched my husband politely drink an IPA on recommendation--and knew he would not request another. Flavored (fruit) beer scares me (and grosses him out, I think).

So now I have officially derailed a most informative post on drinks and taxes onto international relations and beer.

Sorry and back to the scheduled topic.....

[AmazedByCruising]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

If you call at a non-EU port, then Spain can only charge VAT in their waters, or if the cruise did not originate in Spain.

 

I'm not sure I understand. Why would it matter to Spain where the ship starts or where it goes (besides that subject)?  

 

What if a ship from Barcelona, returning to Barcelona, not visiting a non-EU port, visits Rome and Spain claims they want their VAT imposed during the entire cruise. A drink bought on a ship in port in Italy would be taxed by Spain? 

 

My cruise (Rotterdam -> Rotterdam) visited Spain, and only for those ports it was Spain's turn to levy a tax, and only in their waters. Not the moment we left Rotterdam because we'd visit Spain later on. Which seems fair to me. 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I'm not sure I understand. Why would it matter to Spain where the ship starts or where it goes (besides that subject)?  

 

What if a ship from Barcelona, returning to Barcelona, not visiting a non-EU port, visits Rome and Spain claims they want their VAT imposed during the entire cruise. A drink bought on a ship in port in Italy would be taxed by Spain? 

 

My cruise (Rotterdam -> Rotterdam) visited Spain, and only for those ports it was Spain's turn to levy a tax, and only in their waters. Not the moment we left Rotterdam because we'd visit Spain later on. Which seems fair to me. 

 

 

 

What can I say, its your VAT system.  But, that's the way it has happened in the past.  Your cruise from Rotterdam could have charged you VAT that would have been paid to Holland, for the entire cruise, if Holland had wanted to.

[The Traveling Man]

32 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

I'm not sure I understand. Why would it matter to Spain where the ship starts or where it goes (besides that subject)?  

 

What if a ship from Barcelona, returning to Barcelona, not visiting a non-EU port, visits Rome and Spain claims they want their VAT imposed during the entire cruise. A drink bought on a ship in port in Italy would be taxed by Spain? 

 

My cruise (Rotterdam -> Rotterdam) visited Spain, and only for those ports it was Spain's turn to levy a tax, and only in their waters. Not the moment we left Rotterdam because we'd visit Spain later on. Which seems fair to me. 

 

 

 

It seems to be something akin to the PVSA.  If a foreign flagged ship takes passengers from one EU port to another without making a stop somewhere along the way in a non-Schengen country, then the VAT applicable in the country of the port of origin is supposed to be collected for all sales conducted throughout the cruise.  At least that's how it was explained by the Captain on the Star in the Autumn of 2016.

[AmazedByCruising]

18 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What can I say, its your VAT system.  But, that's the way it has happened in the past.  Your cruise from Rotterdam could have charged you VAT that would have been paid to Holland, for the entire cruise, if Holland had wanted to.

 

But if Holland did, would HAL (in this case) have to pay both Spain and Holland? If I had a say about "our" VAT system, it would be that you can tax whatever you want when it visits a port and still is in your waters. Extending that to "if you want to visit my port, we'll tax the whole trip" is not how it's meant I think, but IANAL.

[chengkp75]

Just now, AmazedByCruising said:

But if Holland did, would HAL (in this case) have to pay both Spain and Holland?

No.  But since Holland does not collect on the whole cruise, then Spain is free to collect in their waters.

[charlie murphy]

On 4/7/2022 at 9:24 AM, The Traveling Man said:

Thank you and others for being so understanding of this "nickel and dime" practice that seems to be so common in the US.  As I mentioned in a previous post, we were on the Star several years ago when the percentage of passengers from the UK was significantly higher that usual, and apparently many of them were accustomed to prices being quoted as "all inclusive."  WOW were so many of them so bent out of shape when they saw their bills for drinks.  Again, though, it may just have been the fact that the Star ran out of Guinness beer on "Guinness Day."

sorry late to this party but on this is likely the most important part of this thread! so when exactly is Guinness is Day . I only know of St. Patrick's day but if there is another day, then I will put that day on the calendar right now! Man I hope it is not during Lent . I give up beer for lent, If it is during Lent, don't even tell me . To run out of any beer is a Shame. I am going to Look up Guinness day and mark it. there are only a couple of places locally that do a proper pour. 

[KristinLM]

PSA warning: I personally fully support any person in choosing to abstain from alcohol for any reason and would never force them to change their morals, beliefs or physical needs.

Note to self, @charlie murphy, NEVER give up beer for Lent--not even the monks did that.

Fun Fact and Beer Basics: in Bavaria, the monks gave up everything BUT beer, so it is historically and religiously authorized NOT to give it up.

 

In fact, beer was CREATED for Lent (and not Lent for beer, just to be clear). German monks would fast for Lent and only drink. In this way, beer = liquid bread (seriously: grain + yeast + water = beer base and "pure beer").

Beer brewed for particularly for Lent was extra rich in calories and called "Nährbier" (prounounced deceptively close to "near beer" which should never be mentioned). This was also used medicinally and for pregnant women to help people gain weight if they were sick or too weak.

THEREFORE: give up salad and steak, wine and spirits, but never beer for Lent.

 

This has been: Beer Basics: How the Catholic Church Created Beer for Lent (not chocolate)

And once again, back to the original and most important of topics on this thread:

drinks, purchases and sales tax.
 

[The Traveling Man]

1 hour ago, charlie murphy said:

when exactly is Guinness is Day .

According to Google, it was 17 November last year, but I couldn't find a reference for 2022.

[ourfamilylovescruising]

we are going on the NCL Encore this summer to Alaska, in 2019 we did the Joy to Alaska I don't remember paying taxes other than be in Seattle 

we are going with friends on this trip, and they are big drinkers and I told them other than Seattle they would not have to pay taxes I hope this does not come and bite me😬

[The Traveling Man]

4 hours ago, ourfamilylovescruising said:

we are going on the NCL Encore this summer to Alaska, in 2019 we did the Joy to Alaska I don't remember paying taxes other than be in Seattle 

we are going with friends on this trip, and they are big drinkers and I told them other than Seattle they would not have to pay taxes I hope this does not come and bite me😬

Those cruises had a port stop in a "foreign port," Victoria on Vancouver Island in Canada.  All bets are off.  The earlier discussion involved a case where a foreign flagged ship stayed within one governmental region, in that case the Schengen area, without making a call at a foreign port. Different rules apply.

[ourfamilylovescruising]

2 hours ago, The Traveling Man said:

Those cruises had a port stop in a "foreign port," Victoria on Vancouver Island in Canada.  All bets are off.  The earlier discussion involved a case where a foreign flagged ship stayed within one governmental region, in that case the Schengen area, without making a call at a foreign port. Different rules apply.

I guess we will see when the first guest goes to Alaska

[The Traveling Man]

7 minutes ago, ourfamilylovescruising said:

I guess we will see when the first guest goes to Alaska

Your cruise has a scheduled stop in Victoria, so you should only be charged sales tax for onboard purchases when you are within territorial waters, such as while in port in Seattle.

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, The Traveling Man said:

Your cruise has a scheduled stop in Victoria, so you should only be charged sales tax for onboard purchases when you are within territorial waters, such as while in port in Seattle.

Not sure what the stop in Victoria signifies as far as taxes are concerned, and yes, the previous discussion was for a national VAT.  In addition to taxes while in Washington state waters (not just in port in Seattle, but until the ship is more than 3 miles from the Washington shore), as noted previously, there are municipal taxes in various towns and cities in Alaska, where the taxes will be charged, but since Alaska has no state tax, once the ship leaves the port, taxes stop, even if within 3 miles of Alaska's shore.