JFK layover 72 minute, Delta to Alitalia. How bad is this?

[CanWeGoYet?]

I tried a search to see if I could find posts with similar situations, and didn't come up with anything.  Sorry if it's a topic that comes up frequently.

I booked flights from Seattle to Rome & back from Tampa (med + transatlantic) for the cruises we have coming up in October.  Cruise air gives at least a bit of protection, against all the uncertainty with the pandemic.  I priced refundable flights from SEA to FCO and the prices I found put the whole trip out of reach for us.  I don't have significant points to use to get the tickets that way.

 

Anyway - Delta Seattle to JFK getting in at 8:22 PM (listed as Alitalia operated by Delta) and the next flight is Alitalia  - operated by Alitalia, departing 9:40PM.

 

I've never been to JFK, have no idea of the layout or where the delta terminal is - I did find posts from long ago saying 2022 will have the terminal changing.   

My question is how short  / bad is this connection - I don't know how far we have to go to get to the terminal for Alitalia, if we have to go through security again, and if I should get a different flight itinerary from Carnival.  The price was pretty decent at a little over $600 for both flights, but it's harder than ever to get through.  Even my vacation planner has trouble changing flights & needs to wait for help from the air travel department.  We will have checked baggage.  Our cruise is 4 days after our scheduled arrival at FCO, so we won't be risking the cruise at least immediately.  

[em-sk]

8 hours ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

I tried a search to see if I could find posts with similar situations, and didn't come up with anything.  Sorry if it's a topic that comes up frequently.

I booked flights from Seattle to Rome & back from Tampa (med + transatlantic) for the cruises we have coming up in October.  Cruise air gives at least a bit of protection, against all the uncertainty with the pandemic.  I priced refundable flights from SEA to FCO and the prices I found put the whole trip out of reach for us.  I don't have significant points to use to get the tickets that way.

 

Anyway - Delta Seattle to JFK getting in at 8:22 PM (listed as Alitalia operated by Delta) and the next flight is Alitalia  - operated by Alitalia, departing 9:40PM.

 

I've never been to JFK, have no idea of the layout or where the delta terminal is - I did find posts from long ago saying 2022 will have the terminal changing.   

My question is how short  / bad is this connection - I don't know how far we have to go to get to the terminal for Alitalia, if we have to go through security again, and if I should get a different flight itinerary from Carnival.  The price was pretty decent at a little over $600 for both flights, but it's harder than ever to get through.  Even my vacation planner has trouble changing flights & needs to wait for help from the air travel department.  We will have checked baggage.  Our cruise is 4 days after our scheduled arrival at FCO, so we won't be risking the cruise at least immediately.  

 

Are you certain it is Alitalia and not ITA.  Alitalia was liquidated some time ago.  The government of Italy ended up taking over the assets and creating a new airline called ITA.  

[CanWeGoYet?]

It's the verbiage on my flight information.  

The two names may still be getting used interchangeably?    I see "alitalia" on the list of airlines on JFK's terminals.  http://jfk-new-york.worldairportguides.com/terminals.php

Edited April 11, 2022 by CanWeGoYet?

[Zach1213]

The only airlines operating JFK-FCO are AA, DL, and ITA. If you could provide a flight number, that would help clarify. Assuming it's ITA, that would mean you need to transfer from Terminal 4 (SEA-JFK) to Terminal 1 (JFK-FCO). I have never made this connection, so I am not sure if there is a post-security option...I believe there is one from T4 to T2, but I don't know if T4 to T1 exists. Someone more familiar with SkyTeam ops at JFK would need to clarify (I'm a OneWorld guy myself).

 

In any case, 72 minutes is tough. Even if you can do some connection post-security, and even if everything is on-time, you would probably take 10 minutes to get off the SEA-JFK flight, and you would need to be at the gate for your JFK-FCO flight at least 20-30 minutes ahead, so your 72 minute connection is really down to approximately 37 minutes. That doesn't count using the restroom, actually getting between two terminals (getting from the gates to the transportation, waiting for the transportation, and taking the transportation), and those kind of things.

 

Now, if there is no post-security transportation between T4 and T1, and you need to re-clear security in those 37 minutes...oof. But even if you can do post-security transit, I would certainly not be comfortable with this connection and would try to either re-route or get on the earlier SEA-JFK flight. 

[FlyerTalker]

Checked DL.com.  They sell that as a legal connect - from T4 to T1. (I think the MCT is 70 minutes)

 

Get your track shoes ready.

 

PS:  One of the many joys of buying cruiseline air.

[Twickenham]

5 hours ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

It's the verbiage on my flight information.  

The two names may still be getting used interchangeably?    I see "alitalia" on the list of airlines on JFK's terminals.  http://jfk-new-york.worldairportguides.com/terminals.php

 

That is not the official JFK website - this is: https://www.jfkairport.com/flight/airlines

And yes, they list ITA rather than (now defunct) Alitalia. Although in fairness to the other site, the change is quite recent, so I'm sure it will take some time for everyone to ajust (heck, people still talk about Swissair, and they've been out of business for 20 years...!)

 

Anyways, to get back to your original question...

 

Cruise air gives at least a bit of protection, against all the uncertainty with the pandemic.  I priced refundable flights from SEA to FCO and the prices I found put the whole trip out of reach for us.  I don't have significant points to use to get the tickets that way.

 

What kind of protection are you looking for? If it's keeping your options open in case of change or cancellation, which your search for refundable tickets seems to indicate, that is probably a plus for cruise air. If it's some sort of protection in case your flights are delayed and you risk missing the ship, I would say much less so. Cruise lines can't manufacture flights, and considering the volatility in air travel these days, your only real protection is to give yourself a 2-3 day buffer before your cruise departure.

 

As for points... well, you don't have much time, but in theory it's doable. Both United and Delta have awards availability to Rome around the date I estimate you're looking at (around the 20th of October) for 30,000 and 35,000 points respectively per person, and both have a credit card that would give you the needed points as a bonus when you charge $3k and $2k (respectively) to the card. This would take a bit of nerve, as you would have to apply, receive the card, charge your cruise, receive the bonus, and hope there was still availability, but it is in theory possible.

 

 

[CanWeGoYet?]

22 minutes ago, Twickenham said:

 

That is not the official JFK website - this is: https://www.jfkairport.com/flight/airlines

And yes, they list ITA rather than (now defunct) Alitalia. Although in fairness to the other site, the change is quite recent, so I'm sure it will take some time for everyone to ajust (heck, people still talk about Swissair, and they've been out of business for 20 years...!)

 

Anyways, to get back to your original question...

 

Cruise air gives at least a bit of protection, against all the uncertainty with the pandemic.  I priced refundable flights from SEA to FCO and the prices I found put the whole trip out of reach for us.  I don't have significant points to use to get the tickets that way.

 

What kind of protection are you looking for? If it's keeping your options open in case of change or cancellation, which your search for refundable tickets seems to indicate, that is probably a plus for cruise air. 

 

 

Just looking for a way to get a refund, instead of a credit - if the cruise is cancelled before final payment.  

Mainly looking for those who know the airport whether they thought my connection time was ok, or if I would be better off finding different flights.

[CanWeGoYet?]

2 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

The only airlines operating JFK-FCO are AA, DL, and ITA. If you could provide a flight number, that would help clarify. 

Sure, thank you for the detailed info.  Flight numbers: DL3428 SEA to New York Kennedy arrival 8:22PM

                                                                    and Flight 611 departing 9:40 pm. 

Both flights lists Alitalia but I understand it must be ITA.  The  flight from SEA lists Alitalia but operated by Delta.

 

 

[CanWeGoYet?]

2 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Checked DL.com.  They sell that as a legal connect - from T4 to T1. (I think the MCT is 70 minutes)

 

Get your track shoes ready.

 

PS:  One of the many joys of buying cruiseline air.

I think I will try to get some better flights - this is sounding like a worse plan all the time.  

Thank you all for the feedback, I appreciate it!

[Zach1213]

49 minutes ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

Sure, thank you for the detailed info.  Flight numbers: DL3428 SEA to New York Kennedy arrival 8:22PM

                                                                    and Flight 611 departing 9:40 pm. 

Both flights lists Alitalia but I understand it must be ITA.  The  flight from SEA lists Alitalia but operated by Delta.

 

 

That is definitely ITA's JFK-FCO flight number. The system is probably confused (and a bit out of date) because ITA took over Alitalia's "AZ" airline code, so the system is seeing it as Alitalia when in fact it's ITA. 

 

1 hour ago, Twickenham said:

heck, people still talk about Swissair, and they've been out of business for 20 years...!

 

 

 

 

I still call it Swissair because I think that's a better name than Swiss International Air Lines 🙂

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

I think I will try to get some better flights - this is sounding like a worse plan all the time.  

Thank you all for the feedback, I appreciate it!

 

A wise decision in my opinion.  

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

I think I will try to get some better flights - this is sounding like a worse plan all the time.  

Thank you all for the feedback, I appreciate it!

 

Remember that if you bought cruiseline air without any kind of deviation fee, you will almost always just be stuck with what they give you.   Tickets are based on what their inventory is, not what you are seeing on the open market.

 

Caveat emptor.

 

PS:  Yes, I know....it was a deal.

[CanWeGoYet?]

5 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Checked DL.com.  They sell that as a legal connect - from T4 to T1. (I think the MCT is 70 minutes)

 

Get your track shoes ready.

 

PS:  One of the many joys of buying cruiseline air.

I think I will try to get some better flights - this is sounding like a worse plan all the time.  

Thank you all for the feedback, I appreciate it!

[CanWeGoYet?]

It was a long time on hold, but I was able to change my flights.   Not sure about the penalties - it's before the 60 day penalty phase & I bought the flexible air option - not restricted.  So I'm able to change flights, or cancel up until the 60 days is up.  Got a flight to LHR on American, which won't be plush I'm sure but probably no worse than what I had.  This time a 3 hour layover, and the next flight is on American as well to FCO, so it should be far less stressful.

 

It cost a little more, maybe just because it's several months later & fuel has risen.  But should be far less stress.  

 

I really appreciate the helpful advice.  

Edited April 11, 2022 by CanWeGoYet?

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

Got a flight to LHR on American, which won't be plush I'm sure but probably no worse than what I had.  This time a 3 hour layover, and the next flight is on American as well to FCO, so it should be far less stressful.

 

Couple of points:

 

Your flight from LHR to FCO will not be on American.  AA does not fly that route.  You are on a code-share, operated by British Airways.

 

British Airways operates from both T5 and T3 at LHR, so you may have to change terminals there.

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

Also:

 

You don't say if you are flying from SEA straight to LHR, or connecting before you fly to London.  If on the flight from SEA to LHR, that too is not on American, but also is a code-share operated by BA.

[CanWeGoYet?]

7 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Couple of points:

 

Your flight from LHR to FCO will not be on American.  AA does not fly that route.  You are on a code-share, operated by British Airways.

 

British Airways operates from both T5 and T3 at LHR, so you may have to change terminals there.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, FlyerTalker said:

Also:

 

You don't say if you are flying from SEA straight to LHR, or connecting before you fly to London.  If on the flight from SEA to LHR, that too is not on American, but also is a code-share operated by BA.

 Yes, I  actually hoped it was BA.  Haven't flown that airline before but my friends who have prefer it over the US based ones.  

At least if I have  to change terminals, I have a bit of time to do it on this layover.  Found a flight connection tool on Heathrow site, that should help.  It's still a bit too early to input the flight info, but it should help provide a plan in time. 

Flight from SEA to LHR is nonstop, no connections on the way.  

[Zach1213]

8 hours ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

 

 Yes, I  actually hoped it was BA.  Haven't flown that airline before but my friends who have prefer it over the US based ones.  

At least if I have  to change terminals, I have a bit of time to do it on this layover.  Found a flight connection tool on Heathrow site, that should help.  It's still a bit too early to input the flight info, but it should help provide a plan in time. 

Flight from SEA to LHR is nonstop, no connections on the way.  

 

Meh...in economy, you won't notice much difference between AA, DL, and BA to be honest. But it does sound like you'll be on BA the whole way, which means you'll stay within T5 the whole way. Even AA has started using T5 for their LAX/JFK/DFW/MIA flights (other AA flights remain in T3). 

 

Anyways, an all T-5 connection will be easy. It guys BUSY BUSY BUSY in T5 in the mornings, and expect a bit of wait to re-clear security, but with three hours you'll have tons of time. This is a much better connection. 

[CanWeGoYet?]

14 hours ago, Zach1213 said:

 

Meh...in economy, you won't notice much difference between AA, DL, and BA to be honest. But it does sound like you'll be on BA the whole way, which means you'll stay within T5 the whole way. Even AA has started using T5 for their LAX/JFK/DFW/MIA flights (other AA flights remain in T3). 

 

Anyways, an all T-5 connection will be easy. It guys BUSY BUSY BUSY in T5 in the mornings, and expect a bit of wait to re-clear security, but with three hours you'll have tons of time. This is a much better connection. 

Awww, well I did hope it might be better.  If not, at least I'll stand better odds of making my connecting flight.  I had read, years ago & on a different flight forum, how a transatlantic flight in coach on United or AA could qualify as one of the 7 degrees of hell.  LOL.  

 

 

[FlyerTalker]

8 hours ago, CanWeGoYet? said:

Awww, well I did hope it might be better.  If not, at least I'll stand better odds of making my connecting flight.  I had read, years ago & on a different flight forum, how a transatlantic flight in coach on United or AA could qualify as one of the 7 degrees of hell.  LOL. 

 

Intra-Europe coach on BA is hell.  Seat pitch is even smaller than what you find here in the USA - 30 inches or less.

 

IMO, you would have been more comfortable flying DL into FCO, but whatever.