Change in Custom Air Procedures

[papaflamingo]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:49 PM, SWFLAOK said:

After all of you guys on this forum (Rallydave, Portolan and Papaflamingo) have jumped all over me for wanting to feel comfortable with our Regent provided  air reservations before we have to pay in full and have to pay a penalty to cancel after that,  I'm seriously considering cancelling our 2024 cruise on Regent, and not booking anymore. You've done a really poor job of representing Regent to the rest of us. Regent has been our favorite cruise line since we started cruising back in 2017. Thank you for making me feel dumb to have stayed with Regent this long, and making me realize there are other cruise lines to check out in the future.

I do NOT represent Regent in any way.  So climb down off your high horse. 

You claim that you'll 'will deviate as soon as we can," which is now 210 days out.  If you deviate 210 days out and final payment is due at 151 days out, you have your flights well before final payment.  So yeah, maybe I didn't understand you when you said " We will deviate as soon as we can"?  What are you on a forum whining about not paying final payment until you secure your flights when you admitted you secure your flights " as soon as we can," WELL before final payment.   

But I agree with one thing you said.... "there are other cruise lines to check out in the future."  Maybe you should go with your instinct and book one.  Regent isn't going to change their final payment date for you.

[SWFLAOK]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:00 PM, seaknots said:

so you will cancel your favorite cruise line on the basis of perceived slights on social media from others trying to help 🤔

nose v face 

 

Absolutely not based on the social media responses for those on this forum.

But we have already cancelled a cruise on one of our other past favorite cruise lines when they did not ticket us on the flights we had paid extra to reserve before our final payment. And their final payment was much closer to departure than Regent.

Our experience with Regent has been that the further out we make reservations, the further out we need to make the final payment. Offers are always made for rebookings, like 2 category upgrades, but they always have a bigger penalty than reward. Especially if you have 2 new Regent cruisers joining us for a first time cruise where they would need to pay more if they try to rebook for a cabin upgrade since their single supplements would be increased to 100 percent.

That's not how a cruise line should encourage returning customers, especially if you then delay early booking of included airfare, when we're willing to pay extra for the flights we want.

[wcsdkqh]

Sounds like you need to move on to a new cruise line.

[pappy1022]

Even if you get a flight “reservation” and you are happy with the arrangements it could change prior to your cruise. Airlines often change schedules and routes especially when you are talking about making flight reservations 7-9 months before traveling. So, you might feel good about your flight plan when you first deviate but it could change and has changed prior to your trip. This isn’t Regent, it’s the airlines and would still be a risk if you planned your own flights. It happens more than anyone would like it to happen.

[papaflamingo]

13 hours ago, SWFLAOK said:

Absolutely not based on the social media responses for those on this forum.

But we have already cancelled a cruise on one of our other past favorite cruise lines when they did not ticket us on the flights we had paid extra to reserve before our final payment. And their final payment was much closer to departure than Regent.

Our experience with Regent has been that the further out we make reservations, the further out we need to make the final payment. Offers are always made for rebookings, like 2 category upgrades, but they always have a bigger penalty than reward. Especially if you have 2 new Regent cruisers joining us for a first time cruise where they would need to pay more if they try to rebook for a cabin upgrade since their single supplements would be increased to 100 percent.

That's not how a cruise line should encourage returning customers, especially if you then delay early booking of included airfare, when we're willing to pay extra for the flights we want.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here.  Final Payment, along with Flight Deviation dates are written in stone, no matter when you make your reservation not dependent on "the further out we make reservations."  Final payment for less than a 15 night cruise is 120 days out and 15 nights or longer, 150 days out.  Flight deviation is available 210 days out.  it doesn't matter if you book your cruise 2 years before the cruise,  or 2 months before the cruise, these are the hard and fast dates.  

Regent has always increased prices as the years roll on.  There's no secret here, if you book a cruise 2 years out you will probably get it at a better rate than one year out or 1 month out.  If your friends decide "gee sounds fun let's go" 2 months prior to a cruise that you booked 2 years ago, do you really believe they should get the same deal and price you did?  As for specials like 25% single supplement, etc., they pop up now and again.  If you were lucky enough to get a special 2 years early then great.  But if a special pops up prior to final payment you are generally able to reprice your cruise under the new rate guidelines.

You seem to be an experienced cruiser, but you don't seem to have much grasp on how the industry prices their products.  These are standard industry wide and have been so since we first cruised 25 years ago. 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by papaflamingo

[cwn]

4 hours ago, papaflamingo said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here.  Final Payment, along with Flight Deviation dates are written in stone, no matter when you make your reservation not dependent on "the further out we make reservations."  Final payment for less than a 15 night cruise is 120 days out and 15 nights or longer, 150 days out.  Flight deviation is available 210 days out.  it doesn't matter if you book your cruise 2 years before the cruise,  or 2 months before the cruise, these are the hard and fast dates.  

Regent has always increased prices as the years roll on.  There's no secret here, if you book a cruise 2 years out you will probably get it at a better rate than one year out or 1 month out.  If your friends decide "gee sounds fun let's go" 2 months prior to a cruise that you booked 2 years ago, do you really believe they should get the same deal and price you did?  As for specials like 25% single supplement, etc., they pop up now and again.  If you were lucky enough to get a special 2 years early then great.  But if a special pops up prior to final payment you are generally able to reprice your cruise under the new rate guidelines.

You seem to be an experienced cruiser, but you don't seem to have much grasp on how the industry prices their products.  These are standard industry wide and have been so since we first cruised 25 years ago. 

 

You explained it very well. In the 40 + years we have cruised with other lines and in the past 15 with Regent, the final payment date has always been a a fixed date dependent on the length of the cruise, it was  6 months for our WC, no matter when we booked. The price of the cruise might go up or down, but the pay by dates does not change. 
The one exception to this was when Covid hit and the lines finally were more flexible and made final payments maybe 60 days out, but those days are

 long gone. Back to business as usual…. Take it or leave it. The lines are filling the ships again.

 

[SWFLAOK]

6 hours ago, cwn said:

You explained it very well. In the 40 + years we have cruised with other lines and in the past 15 with Regent, the final payment date has always been a a fixed date dependent on the length of the cruise, it was  6 months for our WC, no matter when we booked. The price of the cruise might go up or down, but the pay by dates does not change. 
The one exception to this was when Covid hit and the lines finally were more flexible and made final payments maybe 60 days out, but those days are

 long gone. Back to business as usual…. Take it or leave it. The lines are filling the ships again.

 

And that's exactly what I was saying. We had booked a number of cruises before Covid hit, and we were held to those original payment dates while those who booked later were given much more flexible dates; as little as 2 months when we were given 5 months after complaining instead of our original 6 when no Regent cruises had sailed. nor were scheduled to sail in 6 months. We ended up having the only option of postponing (twice) since our final payment dates were held at a much longer date, while others were catered to who booked very recently.

At this point, I would like my early booking to be held to my original contract when I booked, where my Regent air date reservations are the same as when I booked, and not 2 months less than when I booked. If the contract always applies, it should cover all of what I was told when I booked. Let the more recent bookings be held to a new contract, with less lead time for flights. That's not what I signed up for when I made my down payment a long time ago. And, as always, I expect to pay a deviation to not have to wait until the last 60 days. I always have paid the deviation, and in the future, I will pay even more if I want to select flights that have a chance of making connections, since we haven't had much luck on making connections this past year that we were assured by the airlines would not be a problem. We're not taking a downgrade to coach again on long flights due to missed connections that were  scheduled for less than an hour. We then had to fight with the airline to get the money back that we had paid to the cruise line for our business class flight, and then had to prove to the cruise line that the airline had given money back to them, so they would give us back the extra we had paid to the cruise line. This cruise was not Regent, and it took 6 months to get a much smaller upgrade to business than we had made from the offending cruise line. We would not take that cruise lines air again, but included air is something we really want, and it's why we'ver used Regent much more than any other cruise line. 

"The price of the cruise might go up or down, but the pay by dates does not change." Really? Did the price of your cruise go up or down after you made your down payment? Maybe it was different 40+ years ago, but my parents did not have the money to take the whole family on cruises way back then. 

How it's worked since we started cruising in early 2017 (booked a year in advance) is that once you make your down payment on a cruise, your price never goes up or down unless you rebook. And rebooking changes everything, for better or worse.

That's why I expect that everything will be the same as when I booked and made my down payment. I don't expect the rules for Regent air to be changed out from under me unless I rebook hoping for a 2 category upgrade or a smaller downpayment. We have checked into those offers a few times, but they were always for the worse since we would lose our preferred cabin location, or those traveling with us would lose go to 100 percent for a single supplement.

I'm done with this discussion. Believe what you want.

 

[TheShag]

Newbie here for RSSC! I read through all the comments. Sounds like 2022 was a disaster from a flying perspective! Looking for guidance. Booked on a Bangkok to Bali cruise in Nov 2023. Air booking is now delayed from original 270 days. Realistically, what can I expect as far as air travel is concerned from Toronto and back? Will they put me on the absolute cheapest flight regardless of # of connections, layover times on these connections and departure/arrival times. Do they tend to favour certain airlines? Before I have to 'pay for the privilege' of connecting with Air Dept., I'd like to get a perspective because the sense I am getting from the recent letter from RSSC is that I will have to 'take it or leave it'. Given the distance to be travelled, if that is the way its going to be, I will reassess my cruise. Thank you all so much for your experiences and guidance!!

[Pcardad]

30 minutes ago, TheShag said:

Newbie here for RSSC! I read through all the comments. Sounds like 2022 was a disaster from a flying perspective! Looking for guidance. Booked on a Bangkok to Bali cruise in Nov 2023. Air booking is now delayed from original 270 days. Realistically, what can I expect as far as air travel is concerned from Toronto and back? Will they put me on the absolute cheapest flight regardless of # of connections, layover times on these connections and departure/arrival times. Do they tend to favour certain airlines? Before I have to 'pay for the privilege' of connecting with Air Dept., I'd like to get a perspective because the sense I am getting from the recent letter from RSSC is that I will have to 'take it or leave it'. Given the distance to be travelled, if that is the way its going to be, I will reassess my cruise. Thank you all so much for your experiences and guidance!!

Its a crap shoot. You could get great flights or you could get not so great flights. I ALWAYS deviate to control the airline and the number of plane changes. To me, it is worth it as the $175 is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the trip.

[rallydave]

13 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

It’s a crap shoot. You could get great flights or you could get not so great flights. I ALWAYS deviate to control the airline and the number of plane changes. To me, it is worth it as the $175 is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of the trip.

Afree about it being a crap shoot. Unfortunately appears from the cryptic announcement the days of going back snd forth to get the best flights are over. 
 

cannot be sure but appears we now get one bite st the Apple and if we don’t want  regents first offer and we decline we have to pay another non refundable $75 to try to get our choice of flights. Hope this interpretation is incorrect but the previous back and forth until agreement is missing from the notice. 

[Pcardad]

4 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Afree about it being a crap shoot. Unfortunately appears from the cryptic announcement the days of going back snd forth to get the best flights are over. 
 

cannot be sure but appears we now get one bite st the Apple and if we don’t want  regents first offer and we decline we have to pay another non refundable $75 to try to get our choice of flights. Hope this interpretation is incorrect but the previous back and forth until agreement is missing from the notice. 

Research your own flights and submit for availability/pricing.......you can send in more than one scenario. You are only charged again if you reject all the offers. Still a drop in the bucket compared to the cruise cost if you want the perfect flights.....and flights make the trip.

[pappy1022]

As Pcardad said, research and be prepared to ask for multiple options because you get 1 shot at this before you have to pay the extra $’s. I found 3 best choices in priority order and my TA submitted them for me. 1st choice for outbound flight was accepted. Return flight was changed but it was direct and acceptable to me. It wasn’t even an option I had considered but very good. Now I have to hope the airlines don’t change schedules.

[BQEC]

Always a great idea to research your options - google flights, flight aware, your preferred airline, alternate airports - before picking up that phone. The supplier - Regent - or whomever may also have access to other itineraries/air carriers which do not show up for you. You can never  over prepare for a conversation with the air department.

[TheShag]

great comments from all - thanks! Is there a preferred set of air carriers? is there a bias to use same carrier to and from the cruise ports?

[rallydave]

24 minutes ago, TheShag said:

great comments from all - thanks! Is there a preferred set of air carriers? is there a bias to use same carrier to and from the cruise ports?

Unfortunately no set of preferred air carriers. and no bias to use same carrier to and from cruise.  Since Business Air is only guaranteed across the oceans/seas, should you need a connecting flight within the US, best to have that flight on the same airline as the over water or one of their code share partners so you have the possibility of First Class for the domestic flight(s)

[BQEC]

Rallydave, excellent point!

[jeb_bud]

The letter from Regent focuses on phone calls. I infer that email communication is still free. If you can exercise patience you should be able to negotiate without incurring the extra fee. 

[Gray Lady]

I have a curiosity question concerning flight deviations. This is our first time on Regent and in Europe. We don’t mind paying the fees to get flights that are more direct. I see that the closest gateway airport to us that Regent Air uses is San Francisco. We can also drive to Oakland, San Jose, or Sacramento. It doesn’t matter to us which airport we use; just want to eliminate a lot of stops and plane changes. It also would be very convenient to use the same airline for our US leg and the flight into Barcelona. When looking for flights, should we stick to leaving from San Francisco or should we present other airport options to them? 

[jeb_bud]

You can use ITA Matrix to get the best answer to your specific situation but as a general rule SFO will be your best bet. 
 

back in 2019 we flew SFO to BCN on United with a connection in Newark. That gave us first class on the first leg in addition to the business class into Barcelona. It was also the only way to get into Barcelona early enough to do some touristing on the same day we arrived. 

[Gray Lady]

4 minutes ago, jeb_bud said:

You can use ITA Matrix to get the best answer to your specific situation but as a general rule SFO will be your best bet. 
 

back in 2019 we flew SFO to BCN on United with a connection in Newark. That gave us first class on the first leg in addition to the business class into Barcelona. It was also the only way to get into Barcelona early enough to do some touristing on the same day we arrived. 

Thank you. That will narrow down the research that I need to do. United and Delta are both good options. Just need to wait and see their schedules for next year. We fly home from Rome, but I am not so concerned about that. Ideally we could fly from Rome to US and then to SFO. It is the getting there on time that is the most important.

[rallydave]

9 minutes ago, Gray Lady said:

Thank you. That will narrow down the research that I need to do. United and Delta are both good options. Just need to wait and see their schedules for next year. We fly home from Rome, but I am not so concerned about that. Ideally we could fly from Rome to US and then to SFO. It is the getting there on time that is the most important.

Some clarifications.  In reality SFO is your only choice as any of the other airports you listed are not gateway and will cost you about $500 extra for non-gateway airports.

 

Regarding only checking United and Delta thoWse will guarantee a connection in a US Airport.  IMHO much better to look at some of the non US airlines that fly non-stop from SFO to Europe with a connection to Barcelona and the same on the way home from Rome.  You see, what airlines Regent had under contract in 2019 will likely be quite different 5 years later in 2024.   Would much prefer one of the great foreign airlines for the long flight across the pole gettting you much closer to your destination.  Most are much better than United or Delta. and if you miss your connection in Europe you are only a couple of hours to your destination with usually lots of connections.

 

And another suggestion don't look for flights on the way home earlier than approx 1 PM from Rome.  The airport is quite aways from your docking locaton and never know about traffic.  Just because you dock at say 7 AM does not mean you will get off soon after that.  Incoming delays, baggage issues and the like make booking an earlier flight risky.  And since most flights bac to the US leave before noon, might be good to book the day after disembarkation and stay the night near the airport for a nice ending of your cruise without the stress of will I make my flight or not.   Bon Novage.

[Gray Lady]

41 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Some clarifications.  In reality SFO is your only choice as any of the other airports you listed are not gateway and will cost you about $500 extra for non-gateway airports.

 

Regarding only checking United and Delta thoWse will guarantee a connection in a US Airport.  IMHO much better to look at some of the non US airlines that fly non-stop from SFO to Europe with a connection to Barcelona and the same on the way home from Rome.  You see, what airlines Regent had under contract in 2019 will likely be quite different 5 years later in 2024.   Would much prefer one of the great foreign airlines for the long flight across the pole gettting you much closer to your destination.  Most are much better than United or Delta. and if you miss your connection in Europe you are only a couple of hours to your destination with usually lots of connections.

 

And another suggestion don't look for flights on the way home earlier than approx 1 PM from Rome.  The airport is quite aways from your docking locaton and never know about traffic.  Just because you dock at say 7 AM does not mean you will get off soon after that.  Incoming delays, baggage issues and the like make booking an earlier flight risky.  And since most flights bac to the US leave before noon, might be good to book the day after disembarkation and stay the night near the airport for a nice ending of your cruise without the stress of will I make my flight or not.   Bon Novage.

Thank you again for your insights. I will explore all options. It would be very nice to fly from SFO and then just have to get a short flight in Europe. I just need to research to give us plenty of time to go through customs and make a connecting flight.  We are doing pre-cruise tour and hope to book post-cruise tour. That may help with our times in Rome.

[rallydave]

15 minutes ago, Gray Lady said:

I just need to research to give us plenty of time to go through customs and make a connecting flight.

Yes, you need time but, not for customs; in Europe you simply walk thru the green lane if nothing to declare.  It is immigration which you have to clear first that takes all the time as you have a one on one with the immigration agent.

[Gray Lady]

44 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Yes, you need time but, not for customs; in Europe you simply walk thru the green lane if nothing to declare.  It is immigration which you have to clear first that takes all the time as you have a one on one with the immigration agent.

Thank you again. So much that I don’t know. I am guessing I can look on line to find approximate times for each airport, just like for TSA. Anything else you can share would be greatly appreciated. I am a newbie who is willing to take all advice.

[rallydave]

2 hours ago, Gray Lady said:

Thank you again. So much that I don’t know. I am guessing I can look on line to find approximate times for each airport, just like for TSA. Anything else you can share would be greatly appreciated. I am a newbie who is willing to take all advice.

Nothing like here in the US where they post real times for checkpoints.  No way I know of to get the specifics of how long to go thru the checkpoints and some airports you go thru immigration as you are heading towrd your gate.

 

My suggestion is to google the minimal transit times for international flights to domestic flights.as at least in the EU as long as you are going EU to EU its' just like state to state in the US.  Not sure with Brexit what it takes if going from UK to EU.  And also google connections from incoming to outgoing and if in the same or different terminals as that can make a big difference   And try to avoid Charles de Gaulle and Frankfort as long walks etc.  Sorry best I can go with recommendations.