QM2 Norway 22nd May - summary on return

[LibertyBella]

Wow, what a lot of discussion about dancing on this cruise forum!

 

 I am also a serious recreational dancer--in fact, I have  formally taken eight different kinds of dance lessons throughout my life, including ballroom.  The others are ballet (my second favorite), tap, modern jazz, flamenco (my favorite), hula (Hawaii),  belly dancing, and Bollywood (India). I certainly agree that experienced ballroom dancers can intimidate newbies, due to the exacting moves and intricacies of certain steps, and the fact that good dancers have a flair and a style that could appear like one is showing off a bit.

 

I also think that Cunard should not just have ballroom dancing--they should encourage more diverse types of dancing as well, because dance can represent culture,  opportunities for free dancing allow everyone to join in and do their own thing, and access to formal ballroom lessons is very limited in many parts of the world.  Additionally many young people think that ballroom represents an older generation. I, personally, would never want to go on a cruise and just do ballroom dancing, unless the cruise specifically stated that this is a ballroom dance only cruise. 

 

Throughout the decades many different types of dance have sprung up --  rock dances like the twist, couples dances in disco, the fun moves of hip hop, and now modern Tik-Tok dances, all of which should be recognized to have as much equal value as ballroom, because they are all enjoyable to watch and do!!

 

Yes, ballroom should always have an important place, but it cannot monopolize the dance floor. Cunard probably thinks about this as they consider growing the customer base. Hopefully there can be some kind of compromise, so all feel welcome and all can participate in the joy of dance!

[mcloaked]

10 hours ago, lissie said:

As an experienced dancer - I don't care what other's level  of dancing is - but I think every one should go around the floor in the normal (counter clockwise ) direction. And no one should stand and talk on the floor.  If beginners feel intimidated then its on them - I can't control what they think- and I won't dumb down my dancing to do it badly just so others feel "comfortable" . That said I can dance and my partner can lead - and we easily manuveur around beginner couples with no issue 

Far from dumbing down dancing so that others feel comfortable - if you are experienced and have consideration for others then you can dance nicely as well as not conflict with others, though if there are a lot of couples on the floor then you simply can't dance 'big' without being inconsiderate. Some beginners do not realise that an experienced couple can be coming towards them and look like there will be a collision but in fact the experienced couple will simply flow past even if they get quite close with no risk of any conflict.

[Tonopah]

9 hours ago, LibertyBella said:

 

 

Yes, ballroom should always have an important place, but it cannot monopolize the dance floor. Cunard probably thinks about this as they consider growing the customer base. Hopefully there can be some kind of compromise, so all feel welcome and all can participate in the joy of dance!

The Queen’s Room is a BALLROOM and therefore, ballroom dancing takes place. G32 (on QM2) is for nightclub type dancing. 

[Megabear2]

Well what an irony.  Here we have passengers stating they wanted to dance yet felt intimidated combined with highly technical posts from high end dancers about how the dancing should be done. 

 

I must say I'm worn out by the complexity of something I thought was meant to be a pleasure!  Mind you my personal dancing experience on cruises is limited to two trips on P&O ships when they had the Strictly stars onboard and were themed around the show. Very enjoyable they were too - I learned a lot about the costumes which was fascinating - and I can at least say I shared the gym each morning with Gorka and had a glass of champagne with Craig Revel Horwood!

 

On my last QM2 cruise I shared a table with a lovely gay man who was apparently a brilliant dancer. I accompanied him to the Queen's Room after dinner most nights as the ballroom dancing was his main reason for choosing Cunard.  He was so popular as a partner I maintained a dance card for him!  Lovely evenings watching him but I refused point blank all his offers to learn to dance because clearly the "real" dancers controlled the floor.

 

 

[mcloaked]

It is nice to hear you enjoyed the company of some of the Strictly personalities as well as other passengers who dance. Ballroom dancing we were told early on is a 'journey' with no end. You can join that journey, and you can enjoy whatever part of that road you want to and you can keep travelling on it the rest of your life, or you can take an exit slip at any time you want to. Just like you can learn to drive, you can become a true motorist, or take an advanced driving course - and remain a driver as long as you are healthy and of sound mind. Either way there will always be ballroom dancers at various levels so long as there is a suitable dance floor, and appropriate music.

[Lanky Lad]

Thanks for the report @mcloaked.

 

I am not a dancer, but have to say I found the music in the Queens Room too modern for my taste.

 

I also has problems with the WiFi being very unstable even when tied up in port, it was here one minute and gone the next. So we can't really blame the movement of the ship or location.

 

Unlike many I didn't queue to get a cruise card. To avoid being locked out, I went back to my cabin after the show and got let in by the steward, then stayed there for the rest of the night. My card arrived at 7.30am on Monday morning. However, it worked fine and did not need to be replaced.

 

[Lakesregion]

18 hours ago, LibertyBella said:

Wow, what a lot of discussion about dancing on this cruise forum!

 

 I am also a serious recreational dancer--in fact, I have  formally taken eight different kinds of dance lessons throughout my life, including ballroom.  The others are ballet (my second favorite), tap, modern jazz, flamenco (my favorite), hula (Hawaii),  belly dancing, and Bollywood (India). I certainly agree that experienced ballroom dancers can intimidate newbies, due to the exacting moves and intricacies of certain steps, and the fact that good dancers have a flair and a style that could appear like one is showing off a bit.

 

I also think that Cunard should not just have ballroom dancing--they should encourage more diverse types of dancing as well, because dance can represent culture,  opportunities for free dancing allow everyone to join in and do their own thing, and access to formal ballroom lessons is very limited in many parts of the world.  Additionally many young people think that ballroom represents an older generation. I, personally, would never want to go on a cruise and just do ballroom dancing, unless the cruise specifically stated that this is a ballroom dance only cruise. 

 

Throughout the decades many different types of dance have sprung up --  rock dances like the twist, couples dances in disco, the fun moves of hip hop, and now modern Tik-Tok dances, all of which should be recognized to have as much equal value as ballroom, because they are all enjoyable to watch and do!!

 

Yes, ballroom should always have an important place, but it cannot monopolize the dance floor. Cunard probably thinks about this as they consider growing the customer base. Hopefully there can be some kind of compromise, so all feel welcome and all can participate in the joy of dance!

All three current ships have a disco in addition to the Queens Room Ballroom floor. Plenty of space for all types.

[mcloaked]

Disco dance floors need to be big enough to accommodate a lot of people jiggling more or less on the spot, whereas a ballroom dance floor needs to be big enough for a smaller number of couples to move around the floor for the classic ballroom dances (foxtrot, waltz, quickstep, tango, Viennese waltz). It is not possible to dance ballroom if couples are shoulder to shoulder, whereas it is not a problem at all jiggling to disco music on a packed floor. So for different reasons both ballroom floors and disco floors need to be a reasonable sensible size. Also disco dancers will want to dance whenever possible, as will ballroom dancers - so the optimal solution is a separate ballroom and 'disco'. G32 is available but the dance floor isn't that big - and similarly the Yacht Club floor is quite small. Shame the 'need' for two decent sized dance floors to satisfy both groups was apparently not taken into account on Queen Anne unless the managers and designers have been able to change things as the ship's interior is being built and after the deck plans were revealed.

[ace2542]

Is DJ Chris back on board?

[exlondoner]

On 6/1/2022 at 10:06 AM, mcloaked said:

Disco dance floors need to be big enough to accommodate a lot of people jiggling more or less on the spot, whereas a ballroom dance floor needs to be big enough for a smaller number of couples to move around the floor for the classic ballroom dances (foxtrot, waltz, quickstep, tango, Viennese waltz). It is not possible to dance ballroom if couples are shoulder to shoulder, 

 

Embarrassingly, my only knowledge of this seems to come from Hollywood films of the forties and early fifties. There you often see dance floors jammed with couples wedged together fairly tightly. They are presumably doing what would now be termed ballroom dances. How did that work?

[TheOldBear]

2 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Embarrassingly, my only knowledge of this seems to come from Hollywood films of the forties and early fifties. There you often see dance floors jammed with couples wedged together fairly tightly. They are presumably doing what would now be termed ballroom dances. How did that work?

Some dance styles were an adaptation to crowded dance floors - for example 'west coast swing' has the couple making all their dance moves inside a stationary rectangular 'slot' on the dance floor.

[Tonopah]

4 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Embarrassingly, my only knowledge of this seems to come from Hollywood films of the forties and early fifties. There you often see dance floors jammed with couples wedged together fairly tightly. They are presumably doing what would now be termed ballroom dances. How did that work?

The more crowded the dance floor, the more adjustment dancers make. In the early evening we dance to recorded music with few other couples we dance more expansively and move more. As the dance floor fills, we adjust, maybe taking smaller steps and staying toward the outside of the floor. If it is a traveling dance, dancers go in the same direction so it can be crowded and dancers can still move. If the dance floor is packed like in those 1940s movies with soldiers and dime-a-dance girls, the dance just changes. Not all dances travel.

 

We were abject beginners when we first crossed on the QM2 and we were welcomed to the dance floor by people with years of experience. Most dancers are welcoming, and those who are not are probably rude in other areas of their lives, as well. We are just sorry it took us until late in life to learn to dance. 

 

Come and dance with us! You are welcome. We’ll make room for you as others made room for us.

[mcloaked]

7 hours ago, exlondoner said:

 

Embarrassingly, my only knowledge of this seems to come from Hollywood films of the forties and early fifties. There you often see dance floors jammed with couples wedged together fairly tightly. They are presumably doing what would now be termed ballroom dances. How did that work?

 

Probably they were only able to do what we call 'belt buckle rubbing' rather than full dancing! Like Tonopah said as the floor gets more crowded you have to adapt what you do, and yes the majority of ballroom dancers are considerate to new beginners, as well as other dancers to the best of their ability.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by mcloaked
added sentence

[WestonOne]

Well if I had much say in it, I would like to see Playford-style dancing - that's my first choice (roughly 1651-1728 English.) None of this Johnny-come-lately ballroom stuff!

More seriously:  to me all dancing should be about giving maximum social enjoyment to everyone on the dance floor.  I agree it can be very intimidating to take to the floor when everyone else there is highly skilled.  That is true whether we are talking ballroom, flamenco, Irish, tap, English set, rapper or whatever.  Some styles of dance, and I include ballroom, Scottish and Irish, for example - are easily spoiled by turning them into competitions rather than social activities.   To me, a really good dancer, of whatever style,  is very sympathetic to those around them and if needs be tones down the dancing to suit.  Leave the dramatic flourishes for the formal competitions.

Your opinion may, of course, vary!

[mcloaked]

What makes a skilled ballroom dancer different to someone who is 'doing a dance' is the ability to let the couple, as a single harmonised unit, to move continuously in an elegant and body beautiful way, to the music, and express the musicality to the maximum as a couple - and that leads to a pleasure for the dancers that has no equal in any other sport or activity in life - but at the same time gives spectators a level of enjoyment watching the couple that is captivating, and the one reason why so many people come to the Queens Room to watch that beautiful way of moving to the music, and the same reason why people don't come to watch disco dancing.Only a fraction of those on the dance floor will be dancing like that on any cruise, but that does make the evenings, and the Gala evenings special.

 

Some musical expression is of course also present  in top Flamenco dancers, Irish jigs, or modern jive, but none is at the most sophisticated and magnificent level as is possible in ballroom and Latin dancing, and is one reason why ballroom and Latin dancing is loved by so many from almost all countries of the world. This is what has distinguished Cunard from all other cruise lines, in that this very best of the world's dancing is available every evening on every cruise, and is why there is a loyal core of Cunard ballroom passengers - though the recent changes to the way the Queen's Room is scheduled may dilute the passenger base for both true ballroom dancers and spectator passengers, and make Cunard less special than has been the case, sadly, even if the dining, the theatre, the speakers, and the ships are still very good..

[WestonOne]

6 hours ago, mcloaked said:

What makes a skilled ballroom dancer different to someone who is 'doing a dance' is the ability to let the couple, as a single harmonised unit, to move continuously in an elegant and body beautiful way, to the music, and express the musicality ... Some musical expression is of course also present  in top Flamenco dancers, Irish jigs, or modern jive, but none is at the most sophisticated and magnificent level as is possible in ballroom and Latin dancing..

There is a book Orchésographie, first published in Langres1589, talking about social dance behaviour and on the interaction of musicians and dancers.  Your comments on dance could almost be word-for-word from it (apart from it being in French!) , though he was not talking about what we call ballroom dancing.   The biggest single thing that separates what he was talking about (and the Playford dance I love) from ballroom is the dances are not for couples, but for larger groups, typically fours, sixes or eights, all co-operating to make 'a single harmonised unit'.

Edited June 5, 2022 by WestonOne

[mcloaked]

That is interesting about the book Orchésographie and indeed having optimal harmony of all members of a group takes both skill, training, and an innate musicality that cannot be learned.  However it does take additional skill to dance as a couple in close hold, where the two bodies are in physical contact and being able to move with complex figures and still keep that close physical contact without losing frame and also move fluidly as a single unit is where all the years of learning and training show to the best of what is possible, and much more so than a group all dancing the same way but not in physical contact. Not infrequently you will see couples moving with a gap developing between their torsos, some dance with a gap all the time, and others may have a gap part of the time, but some are able to dance through an entire piece of music or an entire evening, and never lose that close contact - and that takes real skill and is a pleasure to see.

[WestonOne]

We have moved away from Cunard, rather.  Let's agree that ballroom dance can be enjoyable to dance, even if you lack expertise, and that Cunard is one of the few lines that has provided good facilities for it, but there seem to be hints they are moving away from that. I think we will both regret it if that turns out to be the case.

[mcloaked]

Sure - we enjoy both land-based ballroom holidays as well as Cunard voyages and we used to enjoy P&O voyages too until they started using the Crystal Room ballroom for events like jazz evenings or quizzes - once they did that we never booked another P&O cruise - and various friends of ours booked more P&O cruises and realised that dancing was being eroded, and they too stopped booking P&O. Several of our friends were on a QE cruise in April to the Canaries, and they found the ballroom dancing being diluted and didn't book more cruises, and are still now not of a mind to do so. Yes of course experienced and less experienced or beginners can certainly share a ballroom floor, but the main issue that is now becoming a factor in at least 7 or 8 couples we know who haven't booked more cruises has been the management decision to use the Queen's Room for events other than ballroom and Latin dancing - including tribute bands, musical recitals during prime time in the evenings, and so on. Of course there were always some events such as receptions in the Queen's Room, but they were always finished for around 8.30pm, so that ballroom dancing could then take place the rest of the evening. So long as the floor is available and suitable ballroom or Latin dancing is playing, preferably with an orchestra rather than recorded, then dancers will be happy. If Cunard feels that our custom is no longer wanted, then that is a shame, but without ballroom dancing during prime time each evening, then we will not book in future no matter how nice the decor, the dining rooms, or the decks, because there are other luxury lines where the food is better than Cunard so if there is no dancing we may as well go to other lines where they do the non-dancing things better than Cunard! We have shared a dance floor with all levels of dance ability but provided it is good ballroom and Latin music, and a decent sized floor we can still enjoy ourselves. Maybe Cunard prefers to encourage 200 people to pack onto the dance floor for a disco, and hope they will be downing gallons of beer whilst they are at it.  But if so then that is not the classic elegance of a voyage that we would wish to participate in.