Retirement of smaller ships

[BarbieGee]

There has been talk of retiring all the smaller Carnival ships. What happens if certain ports can handle ONLY smaller ships? Will Carnival no longer have service at those ports?

[mz-s]

Well if Carnival doesn't have a ship that can fit there, I don't see what option they have. This is decades in the future though, the Spirit class isn't going anywhere and it's basically the same size as Fantasy class.

Edited October 17, 2022 by mz-s

[bguppies]

Jacksonville can only accomodate Fantasy and Spirit class.

Tampa will be doing our second Spirit class out of there, so I'm not positive how big they can go to get under their bridge.

That was the beauty of Charleston, was that the pier was on the oceanside of our bridge.

 

The cruiselines do better with the newer, higher passenger count ships, so I'm sure, the Fantasy and Spirit class, smaller ships will be gone in the next 10 years or so and if those ports that have bridge issues don't build and oceanside/gulfside terminal to their bridges, then Carnival will have to find new homes for them or adjust their multihomeport model they use currently.

 

I'll be sad to see them go. because I'll do a cruise on the Spirit class. versus any class larger, 100 out of 100 times.

[Retiredmedic]

19 minutes ago, bguppies said:

Jacksonville can only accomodate Fantasy and Spirit class.

Tampa will be doing our second Spirit class out of there, so I'm not positive how big they can go to get under their bridge.

That was the beauty of Charleston, was that the pier was on the oceanside of our bridge.

 

The cruiselines do better with the newer, higher passenger count ships, so I'm sure, the Fantasy and Spirit class, smaller ships will be gone in the next 10 years or so and if those ports that have bridge issues don't build and oceanside/gulfside terminal to their bridges, then Carnival will have to find new homes for them or adjust their multihomeport model they use currently.

 

I'll be sad to see them go. because I'll do a cruise on the Spirit class. versus any class larger, 100 out of 100 times.

The older class ship will all eventually be retired as it was come the time where it cost more to maintain the ship than they would make in revenue.

[BlerkOne]

55 minutes ago, Retiredmedic said:

The older class ship will all eventually be retired as it was come the time where it cost more to maintain the ship than they would make in revenue.

I think they can still make money but perhaps not the desired return on investment. And perhaps environmental issues 

[dolphinsfan246]

John Heald said during a Q&A session on the Ecstasy that there are currently no plans to build any smaller ships. But he also said there is no plans to retire any ships in the coming years. So we have the 2 remaining Fantasy class and now technically 5 Spirit class with the addition of Luminosa. Also by todays standards , I’d even consider the Conquest class a smaller ship experience. He did mention that those ports that are locked by size restrictions could look at dredging or new terminals to accommodate. Seems they will put pressure on the ports to accommodate larger ships if they want to stay in the game. 

[BarbieGee]

I am inclined to choose a smaller ship. My past sailings have all been in those with just over 2000 passengers. I've watched reviews of those very large 'floating cites' and they just seem too much to take in on a simple 5-8 day cruise. Smaller ships give a more relaxed feel, IMHO.
 

Sailing the Paradise out of Tampa. First time on Carnival. I've sailed Norwegian's small ships, Pearl and Sky and loved them. Especially the Pearl.

I hope or should I say 'wish' the cruise lines would realize the elegant appeal of small ships but I guess it is a matter of maximizing profits. 😑

[Retiredmedic]

39 minutes ago, dolphinsfan246 said:

John Heald said during a Q&A session on the Ecstasy that there are currently no plans to build any smaller ships. But he also said there is no plans to retire any ships in the coming years. So we have the 2 remaining Fantasy class and now technically 5 Spirit class with the addition of Luminosa. Also by todays standards , I’d even consider the Conquest class a smaller ship experience. He did mention that those ports that are locked by size restrictions could look at dredging or new terminals to accommodate. Seems they will put pressure on the ports to accommodate larger ships if they want to stay in the game. 

While they say they don't plan on retiring anymore for now. You will only get so many years out of hull and so many years out of the engines. Even if the rebuild the engines on a regular basis the older ships will cost them more money to operate in the future.

[bguppies]

13 minutes ago, BarbieGee said:

I hope or should I say 'wish' the cruise lines would realize the elegant appeal of small ships but I guess it is a matter of maximizing profits. 😑

Well said.

I agree 100%.

 

I would love a modern take on the Spirit Class size, but know it will NEVER happen.

 

Why sail with 2,000, passengers, comfotably, when you can sail with 4,500 packed into a ship, not 2 1/2 times larger?

 

Its amazing how different the cruise space is on the spirit class versus the Fantasy class which are similarily sized. The Spiirit class is a much more comfotable cruise experience.

[tidecat]

2 minutes ago, Retiredmedic said:

While they say they don't plan on retiring anymore for now. You will only get so many years out of hull and so many years out of the engines. Even if the rebuild the engines on a regular basis the older ships will cost them more money to operate in the future.

If we use 30 years as a rough guideline, Elation and Paradise should have until 2028, maybe 2029 before they head to Turkey. Both ships head to drydock in 2023, which means they should still be in the fleet into 2026. One more drydock in 2025 or 2026 would get them to 30 years if not slightly beyond.

[CarnivalShips480]

46 minutes ago, tidecat said:

If we use 30 years as a rough guideline, Elation and Paradise should have until 2028, maybe 2029 before they head to Turkey. Both ships head to drydock in 2023, which means they should still be in the fleet into 2026. One more drydock in 2025 or 2026 would get them to 30 years if not slightly beyond.

Hold on, other cruise lines can buy them. Elation and Paradise don't have to be scrapped

[CarnivalShips480]

Delete

Edited October 17, 2022 by CarnivalShips480

[BlerkOne]

If scrapping Paradise was on the table, there is no reason Carnival would have applied the new livery.

[CarnivalShips480]

I don't think Elation and Paradise will be retired until the end of the decade or farther.

 

Some people automatically think that Elation and Paradise are old because they are in the Fantasy class, but they are a lot newer then the oldest Fantasy class

[BarbieGee]

I understand what CarnivalShips480 was saying about keeping Carnival competitive. And that is true. But perhaps in 4 or 5 years Carnival will have become more financially stable which could lead to the creation of a new class of ships, the Elegant Class.

 

Airlines such as Emirates and Singapore did it. 🤩

[CruisingWalter]

6 hours ago, BarbieGee said:

There has been talk of retiring all the smaller Carnival ships. What happens if certain ports can handle ONLY smaller ships? Will Carnival no longer have service at those ports?

 

Correct. There are some ports that cannot handle the 5000+ passenger ships so the option is either to tender the guests in (if possible) or go to another port. Of course Carnival has plenty of ships throughout their other brands that can call into many ports with smaller ships. Princess, Holland America to name a few and actually Princess has some of the most unique itineraries of any cruise line out there. So if you want that small ship experience, you may have to look at one of their other brands and also Royal Caribbean with their smaller ships plus the Celebrity Millenium class. 

[BlerkOne]

Just now, WheresWalter said:

 

 So if you want that small ship experience, you may have to look at one of their other brands and also Royal Caribbean with their smaller ships plus the Celebrity Millenium class. 

Royal Caribbean has a number of rust buckets left over from the 90s. Not sure why they haven't been beached yet. At least Millenium class are from this century (some barely).

[icft]

3 hours ago, BarbieGee said:

I am inclined to choose a smaller ship. My past sailings have all been in those with just over 2000 passengers. I've watched reviews of those very large 'floating cites' and they just seem too much to take in on a simple 5-8 day cruise. Smaller ships give a more relaxed feel, IMHO.
 

Sailing the Paradise out of Tampa. First time on Carnival. I've sailed Norwegian's small ships, Pearl and Sky and loved them. Especially the Pearl.

I hope or should I say 'wish' the cruise lines would realize the elegant appeal of small ships but I guess it is a matter of maximizing profits. 😑

We sailed the Vista once and decided that was just too big. Strangely we are fine with the Dream class. We mostly sail Conquest class.

 

But the mega ships have no appeal for us.

[mz-s]

19 minutes ago, icft said:

We sailed the Vista once and decided that was just too big. Strangely we are fine with the Dream class. We mostly sail Conquest class.

 

But the mega ships have no appeal for us.

 

You know I agree I think Conquest class is a great size. They just need a little TLC at this point and a little updating most would say (although I personally disagree, I like the decor - but I do admit they need more dining options to bring them up to snuff with the competition). Hopefully Carnival can update them without shoving tons of more staterooms in them and removing public spaces like they did Destiny class.

 

Sadly, however, that won't do much to help Tampa or JAX - they can't accommodate a Conquest class ship at this time.

Edited October 18, 2022 by mz-s

[notscb]

8 hours ago, mz-s said:

I don't see what option they have.

 

Tendering not only provides opportunity for a new local tourism based business to pop up but allows ships of all sizes to visit destinations in the Med. that would otherwise be inaccessible to cruise ship passengers. I think that the port cities are well-aware of the industry tendency to build larger, not smaller, so they'll figure out what they need to do to accommodate to keep the tourism revenue flowing.

[mz-s]

Just now, notscb said:

 

Tendering not only provides opportunity for a new local tourism based business to pop up but allows ships of all sizes to visit destinations in the Med. that would otherwise be inaccessible to cruise ship passengers. I think that the port cities are well-aware of the industry tendency to build larger, not smaller, so they'll figure out what they need to do to accommodate to keep the tourism revenue flowing.

 

Tendering is fine at ports of call, but I meant more for homeports like JAX or Tampa. They cannot accommodate ships larger than Fantasy or Spirit class.

[notscb]

3 minutes ago, mz-s said:

They cannot accommodate ships larger than Fantasy or Spirit class.

 

That's a fair point for sure. I'm wondering if (for many reasons possibly) Carnival is looking at consolidating home ports at all? I know they weren't renewed in SC and I wonder if they're seeing the economic benefit of moving ships to larger or similar ports.

[mz-s]

7 minutes ago, notscb said:

 

That's a fair point for sure. I'm wondering if (for many reasons possibly) Carnival is looking at consolidating home ports at all? I know they weren't renewed in SC and I wonder if they're seeing the economic benefit of moving ships to larger or similar ports.

 

Well it's mostly academic because the Spirit class is going to be around for a long time to come, I think they'll live longer than the Fantasy class because they have more balconies and suites which are important today. But even Elation and Paradise have several more years.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, notscb said:

 

That's a fair point for sure. I'm wondering if (for many reasons possibly) Carnival is looking at consolidating home ports at all? I know they weren't renewed in SC and I wonder if they're seeing the economic benefit of moving ships to larger or similar ports.

Carnival has fewer ship now, so can't service all the ports they used to, but could rotate ships around.

[notscb]

32 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival has fewer ship now, so can't service all the ports they used to, but could rotate ships around.

 

Carnival direct doesn't have as many, but Carnival Corp. certainly has many, many ships under different brands that they have already started moving around