Has Seabourn gone to the dogs?

[Cantara24]

42 minutes ago, twochromic said:

today the little dog took a dump right outside the elevator. Madame reached into her bag, used a paper towel to pick it up, said "that should be enough" and went about her activity!

I like dogs, but,.......meh.

 

Absolutely Gross ...

before next seabourn booking some answers will be needed, for us simply a non-starter

[purpleally]

14 hours ago, kjbacon said:

Good morning, wow what a thread. No disrespect intended but hoping to get everyone to think a little bit. Would you ever approach someone in a wheelchair and ask (ever so politely) what the nature of their handicap is?

 

Is it to be brave enough to ask her or is it to be rude enough to ask her?

 

Service dogs aren’t just for the blind but rather for an entire array of disabilities that aren’t obvious to the skeptical observer like multiple sclerosis, type one diabetes, and epilepsy.

Yes, of course that would be rude but I’m willing to bet vast sums of money it is NOT a real service dog and she is using some lame excuse so she can have her like precious darling with her. Sorry, not sorry

[purpleally]

6 hours ago, doglover214 said:

I am on the ship with this dog and her owner.

The dog is amazingly well behaved. I, for one, have no problem with having this dog onboard. 
 

I’m sure the dog that attacked me was “well behaved”. I’d be livid if a dog was on board

[cruisr]

OMG.  The dog took a dump and she used a paper towel and said that was enough.  Wow, I feel sorry for the staff that has to clean that mess up.  What must the balcony look like in the owners suite?  Who cleans it top to bottom to get rid of the dog hair.  Would hate to be the next guests in that suite and be allergic to dogs.  On the Cunard ship crossings the dogs stay in the kennels.  Their owners can visit them there and a trained staff member walks them,  They are not allowed in suites, cabins or seating areas.

 

I sort of think prospective guests should be made aware of the fact that dogs are allowed on board and allowed in public rooms on Seabourn.  

[Catlover54]

On 11/15/2022 at 12:32 PM, lincslady said:

I wonder what nationality the dog is?   (Well, maybe the dog is 'French', but I bet the owner is not.)  Three guesses.

 

See post #25 (i.e., you lost your bet).

[Catlover54]

2 hours ago, twochromic said:

I'm on this cruise also. I have in fact talked to the lady. She is from Paris. (Of course!) She is at times a bit confused, but then again, so are half of us.

However, today the little dog took a dump right outside the elevator. Madame reached into her bag, used a paper towel to pick it up, said "that should be enough" and went about her activity!

I like dogs, but,.......meh.

 

"That should be enough", absolutely -- enough to get Fifi confined to a kennel.

 

Perhaps next time I should bring my cats for Fifi to chase, Markham could bring his python to slither around, and we'd then also need a couple birds (preferably parrots) to make the party particularly interesting.🙄

[Vineyard View]

6 hours ago, twochromic said:

I'm on this cruise also. I have in fact talked to the lady. She is from Paris. (Of course!) She is at times a bit confused, but then again, so are half of us.

However, today the little dog took a dump right outside the elevator. Madame reached into her bag, used a paper towel to pick it up, said "that should be enough" and went about her activity!

I like dogs, but,.......meh.

I sure hope that someone has said something regarding this to ship officers, but since it’s a transatlantic I guess they can’t change what has been already been allowed on board. But the dog is in the elevators, pooping on the floor, and she doesn’t see an issue?   It is unsanitary and quite honestly disgusting. NO ONE is that important - on any cruise line - for this to even be able to happen.  I am sorry if she is a bit confused, but having this situation even occur is beyond me. I mean, seriously - There shouldn’t even be this thread - it shouldn’t be happening!
So….how is this possibly allowed in the first place? 
 

[lincslady]

4 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

 

See post #25 (i.e., you lost your bet).

Yes, I must eat humble pie on that one - though preferably not off a Seabourn carpet.  Otherwise, it seems as though my other comment about big spenders etc. was probably correct.

 

How nasty for the staff to have to deal with this sort of thing, quite apart from passengers wondering if they dare sit on any of the chairs in the Square.  No doubt they will be letting Seabourn know their feelings on this subject.  

[tv24]

What an amazing thread!  Very entertaining.  Thank you Markham!

[Mr Luxury]

10 hours ago, cruisr said:

Never saw either of them again?  I hope you don’t mean you never saw your wife again.LOL.

I can report that the child bride is still with me.

[Mr Luxury]

8 hours ago, Cantara24 said:

 

Absolutely Gross ...

before next seabourn booking some answers will be needed, for us simply a non-starter

Office of the president @seabourn dot com  

Let us know what Josh replies.

[lincslady]

51 minutes ago, tv24 said:

What an amazing thread!  Very entertaining.  Thank you Markham!

Well, the thread has become entertaining, but I can't help thinking that if I were on board, on a pretty well mainly sea days trip, my cruise would be spoiled by this.  Maybe I react too much to this sort of thing; others are possibly more forgiving and understanding.

[kjbacon]

This is not only entertaining but quite the head shaker. Based on absolutely nothing other than the owner is from France and is in the owners suite, most everyone in this thread is positive that this is not a service dog. Neither of those excuses make a drop of sense. And I hadn’t know that SB passengers are supposed to dislike the French.

 

Someone suggested that they didn’t see the dog do anything for the owner. Seriously? Did you expect the dog to be wearing a stethoscope and carrying her chart? Sensing her blood sugar levels, for example, is not a fireworks level show.
 

There were NO perks when we spent 38 nights in the winter garden suite. None. And many of you here on this thread schooled me that everyone is treated equally on SB and what was the matter with me that I thought an extra night in TK might be a nice touch. Which is it? You get nothing for a big suite or you are allowed to take the whole ship over with your pet pooch? 

I cannot imagine having my trip ruined by a 9 or 10 pound evidently completely silent little dog. It is quite unlikely that anyone’s allergies are so crippling that a small amount of allergens like that on a huge ship could affect them in any physical way.

 

The subject line should read phobias, prejudices, and judgments.

[lincslady]

I would have though that a service dog would be kept on a leash, and not sitting on a chair of its own in the public areas of the ship.

 

It is a shame that, if this is the case, it is allowed to  defecate in public areas, and perhaps for the sake of the staff, they are presumably not allowed to say at least  ' we have been told that this is a service dog''.  Perhaps someone on board can confirm this, if they have asked staff about it, which I would guess many people have.

[markham]

Let the chips fall where they may. And they will surely do so.

Whatever anyone may think the decision to allow this dog on board, its owner and the dog behave as they do, the lack of communication on the subject by the ship’s management, and now the questioning of all this for travel agents to ponder and Seabourn head office to wrestle with do not make for good marketing. Anything but. And who needs any of this, anyway!?

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Cantara24]

RE: posts #36 & 38

I can only speak to the rules of my Country. We have 3 classifications of service dogs, Psychiatric / Medial Alert & Response / Mobile & Physical. These dogs all have to be registered and owners are given a jacket or harness that identifies them as service, not the classification, simply that they are service. This is to avoid the very issue that has come up on this thread … is the dog service or not?

 

People I know who have these animals are very attached to them, are invested in their training and when in public go out of their way to ensure the dog does not offend anyone. Businesses are not permitted to discriminate against any individual with a service dog, and in certain cases, Airlines for example, the owner must give advance notice the animal will be accompanying them and each have guidelines for carriage. I am not familiar with the requirements of the cruise industry or Seabourn but would hope there is something.

 

My concerns are and what I now want to understand are the protocols that Seabourn have established. Are there only certain suites for this purpose? What are the cleaning protocols? What are the bowel disposal protocols? What are the off-limit areas i.e. food/bar service?

 

We were on the pool deck one time when a human had a bowel accident, the area was roped off the crew came out in hasmat suits and chemical scrubbed that area and lounger. Here we have a dog sitting on furniture, defecating on carpets and god knows where else.

 

As for the crew and staff, I can see most of them being thrilled to encounter a dog on board, many probably have pets at home and miss them, are they interacting with this dog? One thing that has been drilled into my head is when you encounter someone with a service dog you never interact with the dog unless permission is given as this can confuse the animal if it is against their training.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Cantara24

[kjbacon]

SB has real problems and a quiet, little dog that shows up once in a blue moon isn’t one of them.

[lincslady]

Sorry, have to totally disagree with this.

[Cantara24]

RE: Post 42

I agree Seabourn has more serious problems (shore side and seaside) so why would they want to add to them by contributing more issues that affect booking decisions by their customer base?

 

A quiet little dog is not the issue, versus the apparent enablement by Seabourn of the lack of respect this owner exhibits to fellow passengers and crew.

 

I am curious as to why you think this passenger right to do whatever with her animal supersedes the right of a passenger with allergies or, fear of dogs?

[twochromic]

Allow me to apply a bit of perspective to this doggie story, both positive and negative.

First, I don't know which cabin level Madame and Fru-Fru occupies, though I suspect it is above my humble abode.

And in the doggie's defense, it is well behaved, doesn't bark, and doesn't investigate other passengers. Leashed every time I saw them.

However, Madame is fully attached to the pooch. Including the Square, the Colonnade, and the decks. Don't know if they have been in the MDR.

Make of this what you will.

Edited November 17, 2022 by twochromic

[lincslady]

I understand that recently cruise lines have been permitted/ forced to take passengers with service dogs.  But not any other type of pet.  Since this animal does not wear the normal harness of a service dog, it seems pretty fair to assume that it is not one, however tiny, quiet and charming it may appear to be.  (Apart from the poos on the carpet, of course!.)

[cruisr]

The dog is in the Colonade?  Geez.

 

The whole service dog issue has devolved into a scam.   I know people who got their pet dog certified as a “service dog” and its not that hard to do.  
 

I agree with others above,  Seabourn is having a lot of issues shipboard and shoreside and this is another issue which should be addressed.

[Catlover54]

5 hours ago, kjbacon said:

This is not only entertaining but quite the head shaker. Based on absolutely nothing other than the owner is from France and is in the owners suite, most everyone in this thread is positive that this is not a service dog. Neither of those excuses make a drop of sense. And I hadn’t know that SB passengers are supposed to dislike the French.

 

Someone suggested that they didn’t see the dog do anything for the owner. Seriously? Did you expect the dog to be wearing a stethoscope and carrying her chart? Sensing her blood sugar levels, for example, is not a fireworks level show.
 

There were NO perks when we spent 38 nights in the winter garden suite. None. And many of you here on this thread schooled me that everyone is treated equally on SB and what was the matter with me that I thought an extra night in TK might be a nice touch. Which is it? You get nothing for a big suite or you are allowed to take the whole ship over with your pet pooch? 

I cannot imagine having my trip ruined by a 9 or 10 pound evidently completely silent little dog. It is quite unlikely that anyone’s allergies are so crippling that a small amount of allergens like that on a huge ship could affect them in any physical way.

 

The subject line should read phobias, prejudices, and judgments.

 

 

"Based on absolutely nothing other than the owner is from France and is in the owners suite, most everyone in this thread is positive that this is not a service dog."

 

You left out that people here also noted the dog is unvested, is sitting on furniture in public places, and also defecated in a public place  Are those issues relevant?  Maybe yes, maybe no!

 

1.  At least  per the ADA, my understanding is that wearing a vest is not a requirement for a service dog to be considered a service dog (see ADA link below, which contains a lot of interesting information IF the cruise line has to follow it or similar edicts)  So the lack of vesting is not a certain argument that the dog is not a service dog.

 

2.  The cruise ADA and the cruise line information link below indicate a service dog can go almost everywhere the owner goes.  But if a dog is not under the owner's "control" at all (or at least most) times, action can be taken to restrict its privileges, (e.g., would defecating in the wrong place and sitting on furniture be considered out of "control?"  ONE violation might be seen as still being under the owner's control, but repeated ectopic defecations would arguably not be seen as such.)

 

 

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

 

https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/how-to-bring-a-service-dog-on-cruise-ships/

[FlyerTalker]

14 hours ago, Catlover54 said:

"That should be enough", absolutely -- enough to get Fifi confined to a kennel.

 

You know....it would be a real shame if the dog just happened to "jump" overboard.

 

 

[Catlover54]

36 minutes ago, cruisr said:

The dog is in the Colonade?  Geez.

 

The whole service dog issue has devolved into a scam.   I know people who got their pet dog certified as a “service dog” and its not that hard to do.  
 

I agree with others above,  Seabourn is having a lot of issues shipboard and shoreside and this is another issue which should be addressed.

 

If this is a "service dog" , then IF the ADA/ship links I provided in post #27 (or similar) apply to SB ships  then the dog can accompany Madam to the Colonnade, on a leash.

 

There are definitely people who have tried to portray their emotional support animals, or just their pets  as "service" dogs (e.g., anyone can buy a service dog "vest" on Amazon, and doctors not uncommonly feel pressured to sign off on dog paperwork requests so as not to annoy the demanding patient). However, true service training  (at least in the U.S.) doesn't require a vest to be worn at all times, and  involves more than just enjoying having your animal around you. True service animals do not poo in inappropriate places (rare exceptions), do not bark, do not sniff other people, and do not get into arguments with other dogs.  They are leashed at all times (other than when medically necessary not to be leashed, e.g., if a dog needs to be off leash to "clear the room" for a vet with PTSD before entering, etc.).  

 

Sitting on furniture might be trickier to judge and may or may not be allowed   --  the links in my post #27 suggest a proper service animal sits on the floor next to the owner, but it also allows for the possibility a dog may need to be so close to the owner that it can sense if the human is getting hypoglycemic or panicky   (like the example used of having a little dog in a chest pouch, which is not uncommon).

We don't know for sure if the dog (IF it is indeed a "service" dog) is sitting on the furniture to be closer to its owner's  face/breath, for a purpose, or just because the owner thinks it is cute. 

 

Some other passengers on the ship, of course, clearly do not like this, (myself included, because I have seen too much abuse of "service dog" status).  But neither do many  guests in land restaurants where management has to let diners with service dogs in whatever their concerns are based on  (fear of dogs, having been previously  bit, allergies, sanitary concerns even if the dog does not poo, etc.)  There is a tension between the rights of some who are vulnerable in one way  (those who "need" a service dog) and the rights of others who have legitimate concerns about dogs.  Lawyers who sue on behalf of disabled or special needs people are more abundant than lawyers who sue on behalf of people  who get upset about being around dogs in restaurants, clinics, etc.

 

My guess and hope is that SB has thought this through very carefully.  It does not want to get sued for discrimination against a disabled elderly lady (who also happens to be able to afford an expensive suite).   But if the dog repeatedly poos on the ground (unclear if this was just one incident) , and has no medical reason for having to sit on furniture,  SB needs to be clear and communicate to concerned guests what is going on.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Catlover54
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