Live from the Orion Auckland to Sydney Dec22 - Jan5

[uktog]

5 minutes ago, katlew said:

It was turned away from the Milford Sound and had a hull cleaning day instead.

Someone has wires crossed on this one Azamara Quest has not gone to NZ since the pandemic .  It came round from Singapore to Perth to Sydney where it spent New Year and is now en route (as planned) to Melbourne where it disembarks on 4th. It is due to head to NZ arriving in the sounds on 11th. Unlike many ships laid up over the pandemic, Azamara vessels had full dry docks before returning to service in 2021 

[katlew]

10 minutes ago, uktog said:

Someone has wires crossed on this one Azamara Quest has not gone to NZ since the pandemic .  It came round from Singapore to Perth to Sydney where it spent New Year and is now en route (as planned) to Melbourne where it disembarks on 4th. It is due to head to NZ arriving in the sounds on 11th. Unlike many ships laid up over the pandemic, Azamara vessels had full dry docks before returning to service in 2021 

Sorry I was misinformed, it’s the Jan 4 sailing that has been told they will not go to the Milford Sound & will be cleaned instead. https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2902788-hull-cleaning-again/#comment-64540004

[Serendiptydesign]

https://maritime-executive.com/article/new-zealand-issues-biofouling-guidance

 

More reading 

[Fieldofdreams]

14 hours ago, Pushka said:

Mars is about to arrive into New Zealand so watch this space. 

Spoke with a Viking agent today to find out how Viking is addressing this issue. I was told that they are "actively working on it" Remember this is coming from a Viking rep and not corporate. Our cruise is coming up in February so interested to see how Viking handle current situation with Orion and future cruises going into NZ ports.

[katlew]

2 hours ago, Serendiptydesign said:

https://maritime-executive.com/article/new-zealand-issues-biofouling-guidance

 

More reading 

Seems like with cruising restarting this guidance is suddenly hitting hard!

[Pushka]

49 minutes ago, katlew said:

Seems like with cruising restarting this guidance is suddenly hitting hard!

Cleaning within 30 days of entry? Seems impossible to keep up this schedule for multiple entries especially if Australia won't allow it to be done in port. Requires a location to anchor offshore for 24 hours. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Pushka

[CharTrav]

Making me very nervous about our embarkation on the Orion in Auckland on 19 Jan 2023. Only thing to do I guess is hope for the best. 

[Pushka]

33 minutes ago, CharTrav said:

Making me very nervous about our embarkation on the Orion in Auckland on 19 Jan 2023. Only thing to do I guess is hope for the best. 

That should be fine as the hull has been cleaned and it’s in a couple of weeks time. 

[katlew]

Things have been quiet on the boat today. Everyone seems pretty tired. We did our typical morning of a late breakfast, cards in the winter garden, lunch, and a walk outside. In the afternoon we did a gin tasting which was free for Silver Spirits folks. I discovered two new gins I quite liked. Then it was our last trivia, followed by a great dinner in Manfredis. It was surf & turf elsewhere, but we decided we’d prefer Italian. We noticed some items were definitely restocked in Melbourne yesterday like fruit & eggs, but a lot of the alcohol  wasn’t, many wines are gone & things like Kailua.

 

We’ve been saying goodbye to some of the Viking employees who have been wonderful through this strange, strange cruise. They have been in this situation with us all the way. 

Tonight we we received a letter saying we would receive a voucher for 100% of everything paid to Viking, we assume this includes flights, extensions, silver spirits, etc… we’ll see when we get home. It also stated if you paid with a voucher, you would get that back which is important for those with Covid vouchers. Personally, we are happy with that. Two of our group have upcoming trips with Viking that will be covered by this & the rest have trips they want to do. We will probably use it for a River cruise instead of Ocean. That said I know there are many on the boat who will not be happy with a voucher as they can’t or don’t want to cruise with Viking again. I hope they can work out a suitable compensation with Viking one on one. I can only speak for our group.

 

There are so many rumors & theories going around the ship about what Viking knew & when about our trip. There has been so many different articles in the press too. I’m not sure we’ll ever know for sure what happened when. Seeing how this is playing out with other lines as well, makes us feel like Viking was caught in a tough situation without warning, at least we hope so & they didn’t send us out knowing the trip would go like this. It’ll be interesting to see how cruising in this area continues to play out over the season.

 

Tomorrow is finally Sydney & we are thrilled. We even heard folks singing “Tomorrow” in the Explorers Lounge tonight. We are excited for the sail in & hope it’s not too rainy. The captain says we may even get in early! We have the included panorama tour in the afternoon. Our last load of laundry is in before packing tomorrow.

[DRJVH]

22 hours ago, uktog said:

Not seen any reports of this, Azamara Quest has been in Sydney as scheduled for the last two nights.  Will be interested to hear though of evidence of more issues on other vessels as it sure puts sailing in this part of the world into a new risk bucket for the upcoming season

I know Azamara Quest had its hull cleaned back in October. We were on the ship when the captain said this was routine for ships sailing to NZ and Australia. It did bring up another problem (nothing to do with biofouling) that delayed our departure from Crete. 

[TERRIER1]

Although 100% reimbursement via voucher sounds generous there are actually issues with this compensation for some. The voucher will not cover air that was booked independently. Also, some will not or cannot sail again with Viking as previously mentioned. The vouchers also have an expiration date. We were fortunate in that we received 65% cash back to our method of payment plus a 50% voucher when our Viking cruise was terminated due to engine problems. Also, insurance companies consider the voucher as sufficient reimbursement so you can't claim it - at least that is what happened to us. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by TERRIER1

[Goosebear Mum]

1 hour ago, TERRIER1 said:

Although 100% reimbursement via voucher sounds generous there are actually issues with this compensation for some. The voucher will not cover air that was booked independently. Also, some will not or cannot sail again with Viking as previously mentioned. The vouchers also have an expiration date. We were fortunate in that we received 65% cash back to our method of payment plus a 50% voucher when our Viking cruise was terminated due to engine problems. Also, insurance companies consider the voucher as sufficient reimbursement so you can't claim it - at least that is what happened to us. 

True, but imho it’s very generous, bearing in mind they have been onboard, and went to a few of their ports. I thinks it’s far more generous than they ‘needed to be’. It wasn’t a ‘Sky’ situation where passengers had ever been at risk/been airlifted off.  I am not playing down the disappointment, and as you say, some may never be able to make it back to Australia 😞 

 

could you decline the vouchers and claim off insurance, is that is a concern? 
 

 

 

 

[Frenchberet]

4 hours ago, Goosebear Mum said:

True, but imho it’s very generous, bearing in mind they have been onboard, and went to a few of their ports. I thinks it’s far more generous than they ‘needed to be’. It wasn’t a ‘Sky’ situation where passengers had ever been at risk/been airlifted off.  I am not playing down the disappointment, and as you say, some may never be able to make it back to Australia 😞 

 

could you decline the vouchers and claim off insurance, is that is a concern? 
 

 

 

 

I agree.  Honestly, it’s a better settlement than I thought you’d receive.  We were on Orion with the same itinerary in March 2020.  We saw New Zealand but as we were approaching Tasmania, Australia closed it’s borders due to Covid.  Viking was very fair with us, even offering to arrange free flights for those that didn’t purchase Viking air.  I think Viking’s customer service is great and one of it’s biggest assets.  

[katlew]

7 hours ago, TERRIER1 said:

Although 100% reimbursement via voucher sounds generous there are actually issues with this compensation for some. The voucher will not cover air that was booked independently. Also, some will not or cannot sail again with Viking as previously mentioned. The vouchers also have an expiration date. We were fortunate in that we received 65% cash back to our method of payment plus a 50% voucher when our Viking cruise was terminated due to engine problems. Also, insurance companies consider the voucher as sufficient reimbursement so you can't claim it - at least that is what happened to us. 

I totally agree & did say that is works for us, but certainly will not for everyone else. We did book our own flights, so we won’t get those back, but that was a risk we knowingly took all along. We also used an awful lot of vacation time from work to do this trip we’ll never get back. I think unless everyone got every penny they spent back in cash, you’ll never make everyone happy & that will never happen. It was supposed to be a big dream vacation for many of us & it certainly wasn’t, but we’ll use our vouchers to try to put together the next dream vacation hopefully.

[CharTrav]

8 hours ago, TERRIER1 said:

Although 100% reimbursement via voucher sounds generous there are actually issues with this compensation for some. The voucher will not cover air that was booked independently. Also, some will not or cannot sail again with Viking as previously mentioned. The vouchers also have an expiration date. We were fortunate in that we received 65% cash back to our method of payment plus a 50% voucher when our Viking cruise was terminated due to engine problems. Also, insurance companies consider the voucher as sufficient reimbursement so you can't claim it - at least that is what happened to us. 

And why even tho it may cost more that reason among othera is why I do our flights thru Viking Air. If things go sideways, I don't get stuck dealing with the airlines whether it be for canceled flights or whatever. And why do you need a refund for your flights? Your flights to and from weren't canceled. 

[katlew]

19 minutes ago, CharTrav said:

And why even tho it may cost more that reason among othera is why I do our flights thru Viking Air. If things go sideways, I don't get stuck dealing with the airlines whether it be for canceled flights or whatever. And why do you need a refund for your flights? Your flights to and from weren't canceled. 

I think it is Viking’s way of saying they know it was a huge mess & you wouldn’t have flown here to sit on a boat. 
We booked our own because we added to the trip & preferred to set our own internet. We knew the risks & do not expect Viking to cover our flights. 

[bluesramsrock]

Katlew - Thanks for your insights into this situation.  Have you arrived in Sydney yet?

Edited January 3, 2023 by bluesramsrock

[Jim Avery]

Has anyone seen exactly what type of organism they are hot about?  Anyone of yall who have ever owned a boat in salt water know how fast a variety of barnacles,  tubeworms, algae, etc. can form on even coated hulls and running gear.  I defer to Chengkp75 for all the technical details of modern hull coatings as my sailing days are a few years back.  Back then hull antifoulants were being regulated more and more and were becoming less and less effective.  Modern ablative coatings work better but up to a point.  The growth on a hull in salt water is incessant and these regs will end up costing us all in higher fares.  Cleaning the hull with divers is great but unless they are using some vacuum cleaners the removed organisms will still be alive and floating in the water.  Amazing how a handful of marine growth can turn into a truckload in short order.  But then I made a lot of money cleaning hulls in my small shipyard.🍸

[Serendiptydesign]

1 hour ago, Jim Avery said:

Has anyone seen exactly what type of organism they are hot about?  Anyone of yall who have ever owned a boat in salt water know how fast a variety of barnacles,  tubeworms, algae, etc. can form on even coated hulls and running gear.  I defer to Chengkp75 for all the technical details of modern hull coatings as my sailing days are a few years back.  Back then hull antifoulants were being regulated more and more and were becoming less and less effective.  Modern ablative coatings work better but up to a point.  The growth on a hull in salt water is incessant and these regs will end up costing us all in higher fares.  Cleaning the hull with divers is great but unless they are using some vacuum cleaners the removed organisms will still be alive and floating in the water.  Amazing how a handful of marine growth can turn into a truckload in short order.  But then I made a lot of money cleaning hulls in my small shipyard.🍸

Totally agree, it some a situation my husband and others have been discussing. At no time have we been told what exactly the organism is or was now it has been removed.

[Serendiptydesign]

2 hours ago, bluesramsrock said:

Katlew - Thanks for your insights into this situation.  Have you arrived in Sydney yet?

We are finally arrived in Sydney, and are about to dock.

[drsue]

Another interesting  read:

 

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/481893/cleaning-ships-what-s-involved-in-meeting-new-zealand-s-strict-biofoul-thresholds

[katlew]

2 hours ago, bluesramsrock said:

Katlew - Thanks for your insights into this situation.  Have you arrived in Sydney yet?

We just got in about a half hour ago, earlier than expected! Woohoo

[katlew]

2 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Has anyone seen exactly what type of organism they are hot about?  Anyone of yall who have ever owned a boat in salt water know how fast a variety of barnacles,  tubeworms, algae, etc. can form on even coated hulls and running gear.  I defer to Chengkp75 for all the technical details of modern hull coatings as my sailing days are a few years back.  Back then hull antifoulants were being regulated more and more and were becoming less and less effective.  Modern ablative coatings work better but up to a point.  The growth on a hull in salt water is incessant and these regs will end up costing us all in higher fares.  Cleaning the hull with divers is great but unless they are using some vacuum cleaners the removed organisms will still be alive and floating in the water.  Amazing how a handful of marine growth can turn into a truckload in short order.  But then I made a lot of money cleaning hulls in my small shipyard.🍸

Every article has said something differently. We heard snails, then fungus, then algae, even mold. Viking had only told us marine growth. We also wondered about how the cleaning works, but figured the divers must know the rules. Or we hope!

[katlew]

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Jim Avery said:

Has anyone seen exactly what type of organism they are hot about?  Anyone of yall who have ever owned a boat in salt water know how fast a variety of barnacles,  tubeworms, algae, etc. can form on even coated hulls and running gear.  I defer to Chengkp75 for all the technical details of modern hull coatings as my sailing days are a few years back.  Back then hull antifoulants were being regulated more and more and were becoming less and less effective.  Modern ablative coatings work better but up to a point.  The growth on a hull in salt water is incessant and these regs will end up costing us all in higher fares.  Cleaning the hull with divers is great but unless they are using some vacuum cleaners the removed organisms will still be alive and floating in the water.  Amazing how a handful of marine growth can turn into a truckload in short order.  But then I made a lot of money cleaning hulls in my small shipyard.🍸

 

Jim - Haven't seen anything definitive as to the location or extent of the fouling.

 

As you know, fouling is nearly always present on hulls and we are increasingly restricted on the products permitted, as in many cases the A/F coatings were more damaging than the fouling on the hull. Back in the 70's & 80's we used TBT and/or arsenic coatings, which were banned by IMO Convention about 15 yrs ago.

 

On my ships, due to the age of our hulls, we drydocked twice every 5 yrs, which was a 2 yr interval followed by a 3 yrs interval. Even with the latest self-polishing/ablative coatings, we always had some fouling on the hull, especially iwo the sea chests and boot topping. Newer cruise ships drydock every 5 yrs, so some type of fouling is expected.

 

Just before I retired, International had introduced Intersleek 900, which was still a biocide foul release coating, but had a higher hull smoothness, so produced better fuel economy. I tried developing the business case for the higher cost coating that was more than offset by fuel savings. Unfortunately, I retired before the first drydocking, so can't compare the fouling to older products.

 

I believe I read some time ago that International had developed a new generation of non-biocide foul release A/F coating, which I recall noted something about "Slime'. Might check into it to see if I can refresh my memory. All other suppliers had similar products, but we were contracted to International, so I knew their products. 

 

With respect to the scope, without having any definitive information, my best guess was normal fouling iwo the sea chests, with possibly some weeds/tubeworms/barnacles in various places. If the divers were working over the entire hull, then it would be wide spread and would take many days. If, after surveying the entire hull, they worked in a few specific areas, then that would favour the sea chests. I'll suggest the almost 18 month COVID shutdown didn't help, as the self-polishing/ablative coatings work better when the ship is steaming.

 

If they did required extensive hull cleaning they will get some fuel savings until the 1st Special Survey drydocking, which should be sometime this year, as I recall she was a 2018 build. Wouldn't be surprised to see her drydock in Singapore before heading to Alaska next summer.