Nobu

[ChatKat in Ca.]

Well, If Crystal v2 doesn't have Nobu, come to the Greater Palm Springs Area  - The Indian Wells Tennis Garden is going to have Nobu year around.

Last year, someone asked about Nobu Restaurant at Indian Wells. Here is part of a press release from the Indian Wells Tennis Garden — “February 6, 2023, Indian Wells, CA – Nobu Indian Wells will permanently open on a year-round basis to the general public beginning on Monday February 13, it was announced today. The world-famous Japanese restaurant located in Stadium 2 of the Indian Wells Tennis Garden will open its doors to diners year-round, serving up its world-famous dishes outside the annual tournament dates for the first time.”

[KenzSailing]

 

Well, that's great, and happy for you.  But since the Nobu Empire has some twenty plus restaurants in the US(plus hotels) and another twenty-five or so worldwide, I'm not going to really take notice until

some city announces the first Nobu Drive-Thru. 😁

 

 

I imagine it will be kind of like this:

 

 

[ChatKat in Ca.]

Well, many people come here for the year round sunshine and Nobu is a good excuse as any. #snowbirdswelcome  #ifyoucantcruise

[Psoque]

It's interesting to note that, over the years, even before the old Crystal Cruises went caput, Nobu, in terms of their corporate PR, was never all that enthusiastic about their relationship with the cruise line.  Crystal kept mentioning Nobu, but Nobu rarely mentioned Crystal.  I'm not sure what that was about.  I also noticed that this radio silence on the part of Nobu happened soon after Genting was part of the picture.  Also of note that that this completely unfortunate "Umi Uma" branding belonged to Genting and not Nobu.  In my opinion, any Japanese speaking person would find "Umi Uma" to be rather odd.  Very rarely, if ever, seahorses are called "umi uma" in Japanese.  I certainly hope that they don't use this moniker anymore.

[LNugent]

I was told by someone at Crystal in January per a phone conversation that Nobu/Silk Road may be back. …..and yes, I have been successful several times in talking to knowledgeable folks at Crystal when I have called. 
 

 

[BWIVince]

36 minutes ago, Psoque said:

It's interesting to note that, over the years, even before the old Crystal Cruises went caput, Nobu, in terms of their corporate PR, was never all that enthusiastic about their relationship with the cruise line.  Crystal kept mentioning Nobu, but Nobu rarely mentioned Crystal.  I'm not sure what that was about.  I also noticed that this radio silence on the part of Nobu happened soon after Genting was part of the picture.  Also of note that that this completely unfortunate "Umi Uma" branding belonged to Genting and not Nobu.  In my opinion, any Japanese speaking person would find "Umi Uma" to be rather odd.  Very rarely, if ever, seahorses are called "umi uma" in Japanese.  I certainly hope that they don't use this moniker anymore.

 

Both things are actually by design...

 

When you license a chef collaboration, the licensee is paying for the services they require.  In this case, Crystal was paying Nobu for the menu design, recipes, training, and operational support, along with use of his name and likeness in connection with the concept.  The chef can also be hired to do marketing, but that's IN ADDITION to what they've contracted, not normally inclusive of it.  That's why you sometimes saw Nobu on Crystal -- he would either be there in a support role (without any scheduled appearances) or as a presenter (with agreed compensation).  If he talked about Crystal in media or press, it would need to be arranged by Crystal's PR team, since they would be the ones compensating him for it.  People sometimes mix up these type of licensing deals with partnerships where the chef has a stake in the venture and it's in their interest to talk it up -- this was NOT that.

 

Similarly, the licensee owns the space and the concept, so it's in their best interest to hold the trademark...  That way when the collaboration dissolves, as it has to at some point, the licensee doesn't lose all their brand recognition and have to spend a fortune rebranding EVERYTHING...  They just need to take the collaborating chef's name off the menus and ads, and be done.  Unfortunately Crystal couldn't get a trademark for the Silk Road name, so they picked Umi Uma, but also unfortunately it took them a three year legal battle to secure it.  So yeah, it had to change, but it didn't have to change to Umi Uma.

 

Vince 

[Psoque]

3 hours ago, BWIVince said:

 

Both things are actually by design...

 

When you license a chef collaboration, the licensee is paying for the services they require.  In this case, Crystal was paying Nobu for the menu design, recipes, training, and operational support, along with use of his name and likeness in connection with the concept.  The chef can also be hired to do marketing, but that's IN ADDITION to what they've contracted, not normally inclusive of it.  That's why you sometimes saw Nobu on Crystal -- he would either be there in a support role (without any scheduled appearances) or as a presenter (with agreed compensation).  If he talked about Crystal in media or press, it would need to be arranged by Crystal's PR team, since they would be the ones compensating him for it.  People sometimes mix up these type of licensing deals with partnerships where the chef has a stake in the venture and it's in their interest to talk it up -- this was NOT that.

 

Similarly, the licensee owns the space and the concept, so it's in their best interest to hold the trademark...  That way when the collaboration dissolves, as it has to at some point, the licensee doesn't lose all their brand recognition and have to spend a fortune rebranding EVERYTHING...  They just need to take the collaborating chef's name off the menus and ads, and be done.  Unfortunately Crystal couldn't get a trademark for the Silk Road name, so they picked Umi Uma, but also unfortunately it took them a three year legal battle to secure it.  So yeah, it had to change, but it didn't have to change to Umi Uma.

 

Vince 

Another reason that Nobu never really needed Crystal other than for some licensing fee income.  Regardless of the reason Umi Uma is stupid.

[BWIVince]

21 minutes ago, Psoque said:

Another reason that Nobu never really needed Crystal other than for some licensing fee income.

I’ve never heard that rumor before, but Nobu signed and renewed that contract for almost 20 years.  I imagine if he wasn’t interested in continuing the relationship, he had ample opportunity not to renew it each time.  Seems to me he found it pretty valuable, based on that track record.

That’s obviously not to say the relationship is worth the price to either the new company or Nobu at this point, but that’s a completely different point than whether he thought it was worth it for the 19 years and whatever months they worked together.

 

Vince

Edited February 9, 2023 by BWIVince

[Embowaf]

Well, FWIW, as a picky teenager, despite having decent exposure to sushi living in LA in the 2000s, I never really tried it until I was like 20 years old, around 2010, on Serenity, which directly led to it becoming one of my favorite types of food. I likely would have never gone to onshore Nobus either were it not for the presense on Crystal.

[Cruise-y]

I'm not really concerned if the new Japanese restaurant is a Nobu brand or not. He has a restaurant in my home city and I've never even been. There are too many other great and innovative sushi restaurants where I live. And, like others, I loved Umi Uma when I was on Crystal. 

 

Jacque Pépin advertises his presence on Oceania. Sometimes he even cruises with them for a week (well marketed in advance as a theme cruise) to attract business. That's cool, and I love Jacque, but I was never overly impressed with the French restaurant on Oceania. Or any of the other restaurants for that matter.

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Cruise-y

[Jayayeff]

3 hours ago, Cruise-y said:

I'm not really concerned if the new Japanese restaurant is a Nobu brand or not. He has a restaurant in my home city and I've never even been. There are too many other great and innovative sushi restaurants where I live. And, like others, I loved Umi Uma when I was on Crystal. 

 

 

 

 

He has one in mine too - in fact it just relocated to a larger more prestigious location within the Atlantis Hotel but it's as much a celebrity 'must be seen in and post on Instagram hotspot' as a 'local' eatery as the majority of us can barely afford to walk through the door!!!!   Much as I loved dining in them when onboard the Symphony & Serenity, I think two small restaurants on two ageing cruise ships would be of little significance to Nobu these days as he seems to be going much bigger than that.   In addition to the newer and bigger Nobu restaurant in the original Atlantis Hotel here in Dubai, there is now a Nobu Beach Club within the newly opened Atlantis The Royal Hotel complex, a Nobu Abu Dhabi Resort (Restaurant, Hotel and Residences) under construction in Abu Dhabi and another Nobu Marjan Island Resort on the drawing board as part of a new development in the northern emirate of Ras Al Khaimah....Nobu seems to have branched out a bit these days!!!!

 

Anne...

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Jayayeff

[BWIVince]

One thing I wanted to add, was that Crystal’s relationship was Nobu was neither unique in the industry (dozens of chefs from David Burke and Thomas Keller to Curtis Stone have done the exact same thing) nor unique to Crystal…. Wolfgang Puck, Piero Selvaggio and Azmin Ghahreman, at a minimum, had the exact same relationship with Crystal as Nobu, and Crystal had slightly different consultancy with other chefs like Andre Soltner and Jon Ashton where they consulted on specific projects and not concepts.

 

I think that list of chefs, and similar projects from other lines shows how transient these projects can be, and may reflect on the future of Nobu’s relationship with Crystal.  That said though, I can’t think of a celebrity chef licensing deal off the top of my head that’s lasted anywhere near 19-20 years, so the notion that somehow Nobu was in any way reluctant or disinterested all this time is nuts to me — especially when few of these contracts last half that time — if that.

 

Vince

[Keith1010]

Vince as usual all excellent points.

 

I wanted to add Nobu would come on for at least one sailing each year up until the Pandemic and was very engaged.

 

Someone disinterested would not do this even for compensation or a free cruise. 

 

There was no need for him to promote Crystal in his restaurants.  In fact , no upside IMHO.

 

Keith

 

 

[nnn]

8 hours ago, Keith1010 said:

Vince as usual all excellent points.

 

I wanted to add Nobu would come on for at least one sailing each year up until the Pandemic and was very engaged.

 

Someone disinterested would not do this even for compensation or a free cruise. 

 

There was no need for him to promote Crystal in his restaurants.  In fact , no upside IMHO.

 

Keith

 

 

 

On the Nobu cruise I was on in 2018, he was there with his kids, grandkids, etc.  Truly a down-to-earth guy, and it was obvious during the sushi-bar dinner I had with him that he loves his craft and isn't merely a shallow marketing machine.  During lunch at Tastes some days later, he was sitting a few tables over with his family, and apparently having remembered me from the special dinner, he waved me over to meet them all.  My wife and kids were stunned.  🤣

[Psoque]

I personally think the strength of the Japanese restaurant on Crystal Symphony and Serenity, at least until very recently, was because Crystal was able to have onboard a real fully-trained sushi chef from Japan who stayed onboard for literally decades.  If I remember correctly, the first time we took a cruise on Crystal Symphony in 2006, the sushi chef there has been there since the ship was deployed in 1995.  I am not sure how much longer this chef stayed on but that’s phenomenal for a cruise ship.

 

I think it would be a tall order for the new owners to replicate the experience, and to meet the expectations of new and old Crystal guests going forward.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Psoque
fixed a typo

[Embowaf]

15 hours ago, BWIVince said:

Crystal had slightly different consultancy with other chefs like Andre Soltner and Jon Ashton where they consulted on specific projects and not concepts.

 

Jon Ashton was a very visible face in Crystal's covid shutdown period, doing the cooking at home stuff. What was his actual role with Crystal?

[Keith1010]

1 hour ago, Embowaf said:

 

Jon Ashton was a very visible face in Crystal's covid shutdown period, doing the cooking at home stuff. What was his actual role with Crystal?

Similar to a land based entertainer who was paid for his work..

A wonderful person and a great chef.  Sailed with him several times.  And he's from Liverpool and enjoys The Beatles too.

 

Keith

[travelberlin]

On 2/8/2023 at 10:07 PM, Embowaf said:

Well, FWIW, as a picky teenager, despite having decent exposure to sushi living in LA in the 2000s, I never really tried it until I was like 20 years old, around 2010, on Serenity, which directly led to it becoming one of my favorite types of food. I likely would have never gone to onshore Nobus either were it not for the presense on Crystal.

Nobu was not sushi. Although most people call Nobu a Japanese restaurant it is not that. It is a Fusion cuisine between Peruvian and Japanese. This is what makes Nobu special. Umi Uma served also sushi.
Ivi

Edited February 11, 2023 by travelberlin

[Embowaf]

On 2/11/2023 at 9:27 AM, travelberlin said:

Nobu was not sushi. Although most people call Nobu a Japanese restaurant it is not that. It is a Fusion cuisine between Peruvian and Japanese. This is what makes Nobu special. Umi Uma served also sushi.
Ivi

Eh, he himself says it's not fusion. It's Japanese with a few Peruvian ingredients and influences.

And what I was talking about was specifically getting a large plate of nigiri and rolls and realizing I liked that, which is pretty standard sushi fare.

[KenzSailing]

44 minutes ago, Embowaf said:

Eh, he himself says it's not fusion. It's Japanese with a few Peruvian ingredients and influences.
 

 

Agreed, to the extent that Nobu wasn't the one doing the fusing.  He was popularizing  a process that had happened organically.  For more on this:

 

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/packages/global-flavors/nikkei-peruvian-japanese-cuisine

[Psoque]

Nobu first became famous when he worked as a chef in Peru. And from what I read, he had to improvise a lot by incorporating Peruvian ingredients into his dishes, since some of the ingredients widely available in Japan, where he is from and where he started his training at a sushi restaurant there, were not available in Peru.

 

Nobody wants to call their cuisine “fusion” these days because now it is considered a bad word.  But Nobu’s style is not exactly traditional Japanese.  In my opinion, his food can be described as Japanese-style food that is primarily catered toward Americans with some Peruvian influences.  If you consider that to be fusion, I personally can’t argue with that.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Psoque
fixed a typo

[Keith1010]

On our visits to Lima, Peru when we would have lunch out on tours I would think of the influence that cuisine from this country had on his approach with Nobu restaurants.  I look at Nobu as a combination of Japanese and Peruvian.  On Endeavor we could tell the difference between Nobu and the Cuisine served in Uma Uma even though it was made by the same chefs who were trained by Nobu.  

Whatever people want to call it IMHO Nobo cuisine is wonderful. We became fans of the cuisine from the first time we said on Serenity in 2005.  Back then the sampler trio was a great way to get a taste of several items and I remember the first time we had his Black Cod the taste was incredible.

 

Keith

[travelberlin]

2 hours ago, KenzSailing said:

 

Agreed, to the extent that Nobu wasn't the one doing the fusing.  He was popularizing  a process that had happened organically.  For more on this:

 

https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/packages/global-flavors/nikkei-peruvian-japanese-cuisine

From Wikipedia:

 

“  Nobu Matsuhisa
Nobuyuki "Nobu" Matsuhisa (松久 信幸 Matsuhisa Nobuyuki; born March 10, 1949) is a Japanese celebrity chef and restaurateur known for his fusion cuisine blending traditional Japanese dishes with Peruvian ingredients. His signature dish is black cod in miso. He has restaurants bearing his name in several countries…“

 

Remember his „tiradito“? 100% Peruvian inspired. Nikkei-Peruvian is fusion. By the way Peru has the best food in South America and it has restaurants listed among the best of the world. I travel once in a while to Lima just to enjoy the food there. Unfortunately at the moment too many political problems 😔

Ivi

[travelberlin]

One thing is for sure, pure Japanese cuisine is not what Nobu offers. I have found definitely more similarities in Lima to Nobus offerings than in Japan. But maybe it just me 😉

Ivi

[Mr Luxury]

9 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

One thing is for sure, pure Japanese cuisine is not what Nobu offers. I have found definitely more similarities in Lima to Nobus offerings than in Japan. But maybe it just me 😉

Ivi

You are correct