Itinerary Change 1 Day after Final Payment / Not Honoring Promotion

[Real NHDOC]

19 minutes ago, CNSJ said:

It seems the shipping containers are to protect people walking down pier inside.  The containers take the brunt of any rockslides.   

Yes, like this...

Edited February 12, 2023 by Real NHDOC

[CNSJ]

Thats a great deal of brunt if you ask me. 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

12 hours ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

I haven't been to Skagway and if we ever go back to Alaska we would want that port on the itinerary. I'm thinking that train trip is the highlight.

We live in Victoria, it is our home and we sometimes wonder why we spend money to go elsewhere.

I have to remind people that Butchart Gardens is at least 45 minutes away from the cruise port so that would be a large part of your day. There are lots of gardens in Victoria most of them are free. Beacon hill park and Government house come to mind.

So don't think that Victoria is a poor substitute for Skagway, unfortunately we don't have a vintage scenic train to ride. We do have little harbour ferries that are fun though.

 

I have enjoyed all of my cruise stops in Victoria. Butchart Gardens is gorgeous, but tours don't give enough time if you are really into gardens and flowers. I did a ship tour once, and the guide impressed on us that we HAD to be back at the bus on time or we would be left behind. So we were constantly checking our watches. The second time, I took the shuttle bus, back when they still allowed you to go back on any bus. It was so much more relaxing and I could literally stop and smell the roses. 

 

Victoria is a lovely city to just walk around in. I've done a couple of "foodie" tours and they were fanstastic. 

 

And for those whose cruises do get to Skagway, take the train! And have a beer at the local microbrewery. 

[Blackduck59]

@3rdGenCunarder I'm glad you enjoyed our little town. As someone who has been to the gardens many times over the years (not so much recently) it takes hours to see it properly. Ideally you would arrive in the late afternoon so you can see it once in natural light and again in the twilight with the artificial light. The Ross fountain at night is spectacular with the lights. The HOHO bus has a stop at Beacon Hill Park and Craigdarroch Castle to name 2 good things to see here. 

I hope that those who are disappointed to miss Skagway will be pleasantly surprised by Victoria. I hope you get a full day here. So many cruise ships show up at about 1600 hrs. and leave at 2300 hrs. they only stop here to rubber stamp the PVSA rule from the United States. Such visits are a waste of time because you can't really do anything in the time available.

Enjoy Victoria everyone, if I can answer any questions please ask.

[SueMo]

Reading this thread has me very nervous.  The thought that HAL intentionally waits until after final payment is due before notifying passengers of itinerary changes is in my view, worse than unacceptable.  I have a cruise planned on Nieuw Statendam in August from Copenhagen that overnights in Edinburgh and hits many of the northern Scottish isles as well as stops in Ireland.  I was checking some of the port websites to determine where we will be docking and found a couple discrepancies.  I actually emailed the port of Cobh and received a response from the Harbourmaster there that in early February HAL had requested a change in to a different date.  Dublin's port website now has us anchored in Dun Laughaire rather than docked in Dublin on a different date.  And NS is no longer listed on the port websites for Edinburgh, Liverpool, and Invergordon.  We called HAL and they (of course) have no record of any itinerary changes.  We have already purchased Edinburgh Tattoo tickets, which are nonrefundable.  So if HAL knows of these changes early in February, would they really wait until May to notify us?

[richwmn]

9 hours ago, ontheweb said:

How did you get on the train? I remember when we did that excursion, we had to show our passports to be allowed to board.

 

9 hours ago, Real NHDOC said:

I don't remember all of the details as it's been a few years now.  I think I recall there being a couple of tour options - we were on the shorter one which may not have required passports (and maybe the requirements have changed since then).  The train wasn't supposed to stop anywhere.  I do vividly remember them discussing the possible options for getting us back included us getting onto a bus but that the Canadian authorities didn't want us to get off the train in Canada without passports so that option wasn't pursued.  Fortunately after a few hours on the train we were able to return to town.  But we did learn at that time that the train was owned by the cruiseline. 

I don't know if it is still true, but HAL at one time had a bus that ran from Vancouver to Seattle and was 'sealed'. The passengers went directly from the ship (last port in Alaska) to the bus without passing thru Canadian Customs and Immigration. The bus was not allowed to stop until inside the US border and didn't have to go thru US Customs and Immigration either. The train might have been a similar situation.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

8 minutes ago, richwmn said:

 

I don't know if it is still true, but HAL at one time had a bus that ran from Vancouver to Seattle and was 'sealed'. The passengers went directly from the ship (last port in Alaska) to the bus without passing thru Canadian Customs and Immigration. The bus was not allowed to stop until inside the US border and didn't have to go thru US Customs and Immigration either. The train might have been a similar situation.

 

 

That was the situation with the train. When Covid made crossing the border difficult, the deal was the train had to go a small distance into Canada where there were double tracks and they could move the locomotive to the front of the train. But nobody was allowed to get off. 

[Stateroom_Sailor]

2 hours ago, SueMo said:

Reading this thread has me very nervous.  The thought that HAL intentionally waits until after final payment is due before notifying passengers of itinerary changes is in my view, worse than unacceptable.  I have a cruise planned on Nieuw Statendam in August from Copenhagen that overnights in Edinburgh and hits many of the northern Scottish isles as well as stops in Ireland.  I was checking some of the port websites to determine where we will be docking and found a couple discrepancies.  I actually emailed the port of Cobh and received a response from the Harbourmaster there that in early February HAL had requested a change in to a different date.  Dublin's port website now has us anchored in Dun Laughaire rather than docked in Dublin on a different date.  And NS is no longer listed on the port websites for Edinburgh, Liverpool, and Invergordon.  We called HAL and they (of course) have no record of any itinerary changes.  We have already purchased Edinburgh Tattoo tickets, which are nonrefundable.  So if HAL knows of these changes early in February, would they really wait until May to notify us?

 

In late April, those Skagway rocks are going to fall far and wide, and disrupt your port access to Edinburgh.  HAL is just clairvoyant enough to get a jump on making the changes now.

[Stateroom_Sailor]

People are giving this more of a pass because they're Holland America fans, IMO.

 

If a private tour operator in St Lucia was showing photos of the Pitons for an island tour, and then once onboard the bus declared that the Pitons had just been pulled in favor of Sugar Beach, it would be understandable if there were a sudden emergency.  What if they kept doing this bus after bus, and this tour operator had a reputation for holding nothing back in their pitch?  Maybe seeing Sugar Beach would be an upgrade for some, but that's besides the point.

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Stateroom_Sailor

[Guest ldtr]

Skagway has a maximum of 4 docks.  Two of them have some size limits

 

There are a couple of issues.  First of all the as mentioned above HAL Princess Alaska Tours purchased both the Railway and two of the docks.  Those docks (the two largest) have been impacted by landslides and as such have impacted their use.  The dock closest to the city has been been unusable and the second dock has had to use tenders to transfer passengers, instead of them just being able to walk to/from the ship.

 

In addition White Pass also had a lease for the last 55 years for the Broadway and Ore docks. White Pass wanted an extension but it had been turned down. The city is ending that lease and there has been a bit of a disagreement between White Pass and the City concerning that turn over.  At one point last year White Pass indicated that they were going to remove a lot of the hardware that cruise ships attached to before the lease ends. The reason why was because after the City decided not to renew the lease, the original lease terms stated that anything left would become the property of the city with no compensation owed to the lease holder for improvements they made. As that point White Pass also started to play hardball and gave the city a list of the equipment that they intended to remove.  That would have pretty much made those docks unusable for the 2023 season.  I believe that there has been some movement on an agreement that might smooth over the transition.  

 

Both of these issues mean that at least one dock and maybe more will be out of service during 2023, resulting in some currently scheduled visits having to be canceled.

 

In addition as part of the port master plan, there are also making changes to the ferry dock.

https://www.skagway.org/sites/default/files/fileattachments/port_of_skagway/page/46444/21y07m21d_final_plan_for_assembly_wappendices_reduced.pdf

 

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

14 hours ago, CNSJ said:

It seems the shipping containers are to protect people walking down pier inside.  The containers take the brunt of any rockslides.   

They did that after the first slide.  A later slide demonstrated that even using shipping containers did not provide enough protection so they changed  to tendering from the second dock, instead of walking past the fall area.

 

RRF is railway forward, the one impacted directly by the slide.  RRA is railway aft which is the one that can be used, but had to tender passengers in due to the risk in walking past RRF.   BRD is Broadway dock and ORE is the ORE dock.

 

There are issues that may result in conflicts between Broadway and the Ore docks depending upon the size of the ships involved.

Edited February 13, 2023 by ldtr

[cruisemom42]

8 hours ago, SueMo said:

Reading this thread has me very nervous.  The thought that HAL intentionally waits until after final payment is due before notifying passengers of itinerary changes is in my view, worse than unacceptable.  I have a cruise planned on Nieuw Statendam in August from Copenhagen that overnights in Edinburgh and hits many of the northern Scottish isles as well as stops in Ireland.  I was checking some of the port websites to determine where we will be docking and found a couple discrepancies.  I actually emailed the port of Cobh and received a response from the Harbourmaster there that in early February HAL had requested a change in to a different date.  Dublin's port website now has us anchored in Dun Laughaire rather than docked in Dublin on a different date.  And NS is no longer listed on the port websites for Edinburgh, Liverpool, and Invergordon.  We called HAL and they (of course) have no record of any itinerary changes.  We have already purchased Edinburgh Tattoo tickets, which are nonrefundable.  So if HAL knows of these changes early in February, would they really wait until May to notify us?

 

I'm sorry the larger issue about cancellations after final payment has gotten sidetracked with a discussion of Skagway's railroad tour. 😒

 

To respond to your concern, no one can tell you with certainty that it WON'T happen, i.e., that you won't find ports have been removed or rearranged. In the scheme of things it doesn't happen often, but  CAN it happen? Yes. I know that if I found out what you had found out, I would certainly be worrying, much as you are.

 

In my opinion, cruise lines have given themselves latitude to do this because there are genuine circumstances where cruise lines have to change itineraries at the last minute -- weather happens, political unrest happens, labor strikes happen.  But I also think the lines take advantage of this from time to time by stacking the deck in their favor. It is just too coincidental that so many port changes and cancellations turn up IMMEDIATELY AFTER the point at which passengers can cancel their cruise without penalty. It's hard to convince me that so many operational changes just happen to come to light on Day 89 or 88 pre-cruise, assuming final payment is due on Day 90...

 

It is always said that those booking cruises should not book if one specific place is overwhelmingly important, as cancellations do occur. Better to take a land tour and be sure of getting there. But there is a certain playing fast and loose with this dictum by the lines that has to make one more than a bit suspicious.

 

[Btimmer]

On 2/11/2023 at 11:24 AM, CNSJ said:

Changes happen.  Timing may be poor with respect to payments.....but....

 

We had several changes on Westerdam Transpacific in fall of 2022.  I do believe they try their best to make things work. ***  In our case, when a schedule change caused by local politics prevented us fro visiting one island in Papua New Guinea, the Captain worked it out to get us a second full day win the Conflict Islands....total paradise....there were few complaints.

 

When weather prevented us from tendering into Moreton Island which was just a beach day.... the Captain kicked  up speed and got us an extra full day in Sydney.  The extra day was docked right downtown next to the Opera House and at foot of Harbor Bridge.  Then we moved in middle of night to White Bay terminal to disembark.

 

Best Captain ever (in every possible measurement on this trip) ....Captain Wouter Van Hoogdalem!

 

 

*** a few days before end of cruise we had later from Captain crediting all with $500 OBC and a 10% FCC of our cruise fare paid.  Great customer service action IMHO.

I'll second your observation about Captain Wouter van Hoogdalem.  He was simply the best.  He even treated us like adults and gave the COVID counts every day and was quite open about that whole situation.  We also missed a port in NZ and had an overnight in Tauranga which was cool. Plus he was quite approachable!

[CNSJ]

As for Captain van Hoogdalem, it makes me wish HAL would publish which Captain will master which ships as a schedule so we can use that as a booking consideration.  But then again, that would give some another thing complain about when the Captain plan changes....

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

There is a new story that Skagway expects to have made enough progress by cruise season this year to be able to use both railroad dock. Though they will use tenders for offloading passengers for the forward pier and buses for the aft pier. The busses will be equipped to be notified if they is any additional slippage and will spend as little time as possible going past the fall zone.

 

With the number of cruise ships in Alaska during the season and Juneau considering limiting the number of ships in port on any day to 4. Any kind of hiccup can result in ships having to change itineraries. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by ldtr

[Guest ldtr]

duplicate

Edited February 14, 2023 by ldtr