Are NCL selling cruises to ports they have no intention of going to.

[IAcruising]

9 minutes ago, roddy good boy said:

We sailed on the Bliss in 2019

 

I sailed on the Sun in 2015. Should we swap stories?

 

Mine is simple, shiat happened.

 

[roddy good boy]

1 minute ago, IAcruising said:

 

I sailed on the Sun in 2015. Should we swap stories?

 

Mine is simple, shiat happened.

 

It does. Just adding to the thread…

 

We’ve been doing land vaca’s since Covid, but just booked a 9 day Med cruise. They still haven’t added any excursions for one of the ports, so I suspect they’re considering eliminating it. The port is one of the reasons we selected the cruise. We’ll go forward with the trip regardless, but it’s elimination may affect our future travel plans. Blessed to have options! 

[kitkat343]

10 hours ago, latebuyer said:

Just a note someone said all cruise lines are doing this. I visit the princess and royal caribbean forums and i haven’t seen a long thread like this there so i wonder about that.

I've not seen anything like this on those forums or Cunard's.  There are specific issues that sometimes affect their cruises - RC right now is diverting ships out of Haiti, everyone is avoiding the Middle East, and the two Carnival and RC ships that were home-ported in Baltimore are heading to Norfolk, but all of those changes are caused by legitimate, significant issues affecting the ports and are completely understandable.  

Edited March 30 by kitkat343

[organist65]

I am currently sailing NCL Dawn in Africa. We were sold on this cruise because of all the countries in West Africa we were set to visit. They first cancelled Cape Verde for "environmental" reasons, something about fuel. I can't honestly remember if it was after final payment, but I had my plane tickets already. Now they have canceled The Gambia due to tidal conditions. This port they shouldn't put on the schedule in the first place as upon reading about it, the channel to get there is shallow and dangerous. They must be aware of these things beforehand. I ❤️ NCL, but after reading these stories, I can't believe it's all just coincidence. 

[Memoculus]

34 minutes ago, organist65 said:

I am currently sailing NCL Dawn in Africa. We were sold on this cruise because of all the countries in West Africa we were set to visit. They first cancelled Cape Verde for "environmental" reasons, something about fuel. I can't honestly remember if it was after final payment, but I had my plane tickets already. Now they have canceled The Gambia due to tidal conditions. This port they shouldn't put on the schedule in the first place as upon reading about it, the channel to get there is shallow and dangerous. They must be aware of these things beforehand. I ❤️ NCL, but after reading these stories, I can't believe it's all just coincidence. 

At the time of our sailing on the Dawn, Key West had already voted to disallow cruise ships from docking. It has since been modified, but from my research at that time, it was clear that NCL already knew in advance we would not be permitted to dock there. That port was a big reson why we chose that cruise. I tried on the phone to have NCL explain it to me but all they said was it was for "environmental" reasons. I told them that it was clear that they knew in advance that the dock would be closed to us. They did not admit to this and also said there would be no compensation. There is probably a disclaimer for this type of thing in long contract we are required to sign. I like NCL too, but there are too many instances of this to ignore. Feels like a "bait and switch" situation.

[complawyer]

hey, memo.. y'all didnt miss much not stopping in  key west. the good citizens totally dislike cruises passengers . why do you think they originally banned cruise ships

 

we were there about 10  years ago, and while my wife and her sister went into starbucks, i waited outside and this guy selling those cheap a** thatched hats wanted to fight me for being on his "territory" . he really believed he owned that portion of sidewalk!

unless things have changed,  they insist that the cruise ship leave around 3-4 P.M. 

they want cruises gone so as to not interfere with views of the sunset. im 76 years old, and if i never get the chance to see key west again, that's perfectly fine with me, even if the opportunity was free

[Memoculus]

Hey Comp!

Here is a link to a recent NY Times article all about it. I hope it opens for you.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/25/us/key-west-cruise-ships-desantis.html#:~:text=Since the early days of,pandemic to argue for continuing

 

I have another chance to visit Key West on a cruise this June and since we never have, I hope we do. Thanks for your input though.  The article will make sense to you.

 

 

Edited March 31 by Memoculus

[complawyer]

memo, i would have liked to have read this article, but it wont let me open it unless i purchase a subscription  to the times. can you encapsulate for me

[Memoculus]

Oh crap- now I can't re-open it without a fee! lol. So here is some of what I encapsulated-during the pandemic, many citizens in Key West moved to " try to limit the size and number of vacation vessels on the tiny island. This was initally successful and limited the ships from docking but also created momentum for further arguments.  Some of the further arguments that I could see were environmental concerns such as for prep./protection for the sea bed (important!), potential evidence that the tourism industry to the area was not hurt over time by the ban but rather that the hotels etc. could now compensate by charging land tourists more, plus some political funding things for some politicians. It is easy to google. No further opinion from me except that NCL should have been as transparent as they could. 

[BrianLo]

On 3/26/2024 at 1:05 PM, NCL ruined vacation said:

@complawyerThen they did the same thing to the cruise that followed our cruise. The did same to a cruise around south africa. This is NCL’s current operating model.

 

Just a correction, they emailed us on February 28th for the South Africa Cruise itinerary changes. The Cruise left March 8th.

[7Contraveler]

2 hours ago, BrianLo said:

 

Just a correction, they emailed us on February 28th for the South Africa Cruise itinerary changes. The Cruise left March 8th.

How is the trip? Is it worth it? Contemplating doing the same one way next year. 

[BrianLo]

4 hours ago, 7Contraveler said:

How is the trip? Is it worth it? Contemplating doing the same one way next year. 

I had a good time! The itinerary changes were mildly disappointing, but I just had an exceedingly early ship tour (4:45 departure for a game drive) to compensate one day and I think the other  I replaced with a non ship tour as they cancelled mine from under me and didn’t offer an option. Richards Bay had bad weather (not their fault-but also lost out on a tour there) and Luderitz was cancelled outright. I was also in South Africa for a week before and I’d highly recommend something similar if you are traveling far. The entire starter week was great!

 

Overall though I saw the big game and each of the drives I did all had their respective highlights that all seemed complimentary. If the itinerary was a little less altered, which it should be in theory, I’d highly recommend.

 

I’m going to do Doha to Mauritius leg next year. Hopefully that’s less dramatic as well! 😂

Edited April 1 by BrianLo

[NCL ruined vacation]

5th Feb (and the cruise right after this cruise) on norwegian star dropped paradise bay on mainland Antarctica to add 2 extra hours at Stanley in the Falkland Islands to "enhance the passenger experience" which is not a reason listed in NCL's terms and conditions. They replaced paradise bay with a few hours at admiralty bay on the south Shetland Islands some 400km north of mainland Antarctica. Most of the scenery was desolate land not covered by snow - hardly a replacement for mainland Antarctica 

[kitkat343]

On 3/29/2024 at 12:16 PM, latebuyer said:

Just a note someone said all cruise lines are doing this. I visit the princess and royal caribbean forums and i haven’t seen a long thread like this there so i wonder about that.

I've sailed RC, and look at these forums plus Cunard's, and cancellations on those lines have been reported only for operational or safety issues (the bridge being taken out in Baltimore, Labadee Haiti being unsafe or mechanical problems on the ships).

[Jack Durden]

Below is from https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/norwegian-cruise-line-looks-to-cut-costs-and-debt-no-sacred-cows/ar-BB1nftZn  Looks like NCL is trying to cut costs anyway possible, tops on their list looks to be "ship operating cost".  I wonder changes to itineraries could improve "ship operating cost"?

 

[NCL is] planning to slash $300 million in costs by 2026, with $100 million in reductions coming this year. “We are maniacally focused on that,” Chief Financial Officer Mark Kempa said of deleveraging the balance sheet.  “We’re trying to eliminate waste from the business, and that could be from anywhere,” he said. “There are no sacred cows.”  ... The $100 million in cuts for this year has already been identified, Kempa said. Roughly two-thirds will come from reducing the ship operating cost base as well as marketing, selling and administrative spending. The rest come from all parts of the company, he said.

[MarkieMarkNYC]

Actually, for businesses there are sacred cows.

They are called customers.

Vote with your wallet. Choose another cruise line.

[luv2kroooz]

58 minutes ago, MarkieMarkNYC said:

Actually, for businesses there are sacred cows.

They are called customers.

Vote with your wallet. Choose another cruise line.

Bingo. Problem solved. Expand horizons. We've enjoyed our time sailing on competing cruise lines, not even knowing it going in. Not to mention the stability and reliability in delivering the advertised product, excuse-free.

[astera]

4 hours ago, MarkieMarkNYC said:

Actually, for businesses there are sacred cows.

They are called customers.

 

In this day and age are you sure you don't mean management? Even when things go south for a company and cuts are made, the product gets devalued, they're still lining their pockets like never before, enjoying record bonuses, etc. Just look at banks, or more recently Boeing and what a fiasco it has become.

 

I agree that voting with your wallet is the way to go. There are plenty of cruise lines out there and looking at the sheer number of ships being introduced they really need to work harder to fill all those cabins across the board.

[14ersco]

This is the next Getaway sailing on June 6.  NCL emailed these changes on May 23, two weeks before sailing.  NCL continued to sell on their website the original itinerary until May 28.  I mock booked a Haven suite for 13K that evening.

 

 

Edited May 30 by 14ersco

[Matahari47]

On 5/29/2024 at 10:01 PM, 14ersco said:

This is the next Getaway sailing on June 6.  NCL emailed these changes on May 23, two weeks before sailing.  NCL continued to sell on their website the original itinerary until May 28.  I mock booked a Haven suite for 13K that evening.

 

 

 

This is our cruise….. 🙄

 

The fact that NCL were still selling original itinerary and you could book it 5 days after we all got our email give us robust evidence of misselling? 

 

[Masaka1]

Personally having had Greenland replaced by Norway, by NCL.  I wouldn’t trust them again. This also applies to Ambassador Cruises who sent a pile of scrap to sea, and so we missed Iceland and Greenland last year. 
 

I cruise for the ports. If they can’t guarantee they will get there, then I won’t cruise.
 

I am not talking about changes due to war, or natural disasters, or when the weather is too rough to get into a Tender port - those are reasonable changes.  
 

However advertising and then changing after people have paid is sharp practice to me. 

[Menocchio]

I'll leave whether NCL is in breach of contract and indeed the validity of the contract to lawyers, jurists, and legislators. They may be well within the law.

 

But sometimes the law is an ass. 

 

If NCL is changing itineraries for reasons that seem to be avoidable, and they're doing this more often than other cruise lines then that's something cruisers should know. Either so they can choose another line or at least know that some ports are unlikely to be met. 

 

The question shouldn't be "does NCL have the legal right to do this?" or "does this meet the legal requirements of fraud?" But "does this happen more often on NCL than elsewhere?" It kind of sounds like it, but I'm also willing to entertain that we've been sensitized to these occurrences after some more high-profile events.

 

One of the things that attracts me to NCL is that they seem to have more interesting and more port-heavy itineraries than other lines in its price point. But that might also make cost-cutting through itinerary changes more enticing, where Royal, MSC, and Carnival were already down to the bone on their advertised itinerary. 

[astera]

11 hours ago, 14ersco said:

This is the next Getaway sailing on June 6.  NCL emailed these changes on May 23, two weeks before sailing.  NCL continued to sell on their website the original itinerary until May 28.

 

That's quite bad. So they were literally selling an itinerary that was no longer accurate?

 

I'm not usually bothered by itinerary changes but the only time I've ever seen one happen within my circle of family and friends was during some really tough weather heading towards one of the ports so the ship rightfully decided to steer clear of the danger and skip that place completely...

[pghflyer]

The cruise industry is really the only industry I have encountered where a small number of passionate fans (CC) use intricate legal contract language to defend poor customer friendly practices. My local Walmart can probably LEGALLY provide open air sink hole restrooms in the middle of the store, never clean their floors, and turn off the air conditioning....but that doesn't mean they should do it while pulling out obscure legal loopholes in their contract for operating that location.   

 

I think NCL has a great product and have thoroughly enjoyed all my trips with them. I agree NCL is allowed to wipe out all ports on an itinerary based on the conditions we all agree to as part of our purchase, but it simply is not in good faith or customer friendly to optionally change itineraries at the last minute claiming "environmental benefit" and simultaneously save on fuel costs (which customers don't participate in that savings).  I fully support them making more environmental friendly itineraries - just make them and sell them that way so I know what I am buying. 

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, pghflyer said:

The cruise industry is really the only industry I have encountered where a small number of passionate fans (CC) use intricate legal contract language to defend poor customer friendly practices. My local Walmart can probably LEGALLY provide open air sink hole restrooms in the middle of the store, never clean their floors, and turn off the air conditioning....but that doesn't mean they should do it while pulling out obscure legal loopholes in their contract for operating that location.   

 

I think NCL has a great product and have thoroughly enjoyed all my trips with them. I agree NCL is allowed to wipe out all ports on an itinerary based on the conditions we all agree to as part of our purchase, but it simply is not in good faith or customer friendly to optionally change itineraries at the last minute claiming "environmental benefit" and simultaneously save on fuel costs (which customers don't participate in that savings).  I fully support them making more environmental friendly itineraries - just make them and sell them that way so I know what I am buying. 

Your local walmart would be running afoul of multiple environmental and health regulations.

You do realize that reducing fuel consumption is an environmental benefit. 

And, yes, you do participate in those savings since fuel consumption directly affects cruise costs.