Lights Out at Midnight

[OlsSalt]

3 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

You’re joking right?  Either that or living in the dark ages.  No cruise line wonders what HAL’s secret is nor do you see any cruise company trying to emulate HAL.  Even HAL is not happy with its formula/image and is constantly trying to appeal to a broader audience.  The fact is most lines are grateful they don’t have the image problem of HAL, and HAL probably wishes they didn’t either.  
 

How many new ships does HAL have on order?  How many does Princess, Cunard, P&O, AIDA, Carnival, and Costa have?   There is your answer to which brands are performing best.  Is Carnival racing to reallocate tonnage from a sister brand to HAL?  Not to my knowledge.  They are with the Carnival brand.  The notion that HAL is subsiding other Carnival brands is wishful thinking at best.  They can barely fill their own ships without resorting to “priced to fill” rock bottom per diems.  Fact is they have offloaded as many HAL ships as they can to right-size the brand.  

 

HAL "offloaded" aging ships well past their 20 year expected life span, when repairs became more expensive than new builds.

 

No, I am not joking. Let's see if we can create a reasonable discussion about future directions, and not rely on facts not in evidence - unless you can point to credible resources to back up your declarations. 

 

If other CCL brand want to become dinosaurs of the seas investing in bigger and more novelty on board, let them as they also find fewer ports willing to accept them for the travel experience, while they offer simply an onboard floating resort experience.

 

Quite frankly, I would assume those would be the ships that are harder to fill and establish many return passenger. (Opinion)

 

Larger, more novelty on board,  with fewer itinerary options is one cruise model. HAL - sedate, more dedicated to travel exploration for the more self-contained passenger is another.

 

HAL currently is caught in the middle trying to offer both. And probably failing as a brand as a result of this departure from its former loyal and older passenger base.  (Opinion)

[3rdGenCunarder]

About 15 years ago, we took our first and only Princess cruise. There was piped-in music everywhere. The chair hogs grabbed all the loungers at the aft adult pool (which had piped in music and a few kids) before sunrise. We did manage to find somewhere to sit at the midship pool, but only in the morning. At noon, the movie screen lit up and they showed kiddie movies with LOUD volume. We retreated to our teeny tiny balcony. 

 

After that, I had my Scarlett O'Hara moment--as God is my witness, I'll never go without a balcony again! 

 

Having a balcony means I'll always have that quiet space where I won't have to fight to get a place to site. I've been lucky in not having noisy or smoky neighbors. Just peace, quiet, and the sea. I don't necessarily spend all my time there, but I like knowing I have a refuge if I need it.

[albingirl]

There is a huge difference between the Caribbean bus runs and the international cruises. This is where I think HAL shines. It's all about the itinerary for us going forward and I personally have no interest in obnoxious music by the pool and late night drinking. I agree that they need to spice up the daytime activities, like a return to live music in the Ocean bar, for instance. I'm all done with wasting my money on packed Caribbean cruises.

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

Larger, more novelty on board,  with fewer itinerary options is one cruise model. HAL - sedate, more dedicated to travel exploration for the more self-contained passenger is another.

 

The first of those two is so much easier to market. I think (opinion) that more people travel for the lively experience--fun ships!!!--than for a specific itinerary. This board self-selects with people who cruise a lot. And for those with a long history of sailing with HAL, the experience of going to a variety of ports. But I suspect (opinion again) that we aren't in the majority. A lot of people just want to "take a cruise." I know people who tell me they have booked a cruise. Oh, what ship? I don't remember is often the answer. 

 

The second is nearly impossible to market. "Sedate" is not a good marketing word, as people will think passengers are sedated. Self-contained means "just entertain yourself," or "sit in your cabin all day."

[OlsSalt]

Let's try serene, traditional, classic  for "sedate".

Agree, "self-contained" is too abstract, and was offered only as a descriptor; not a marketing slogan. 

 

Irony being when you have large numbers of return passengers who liked the more "sedate and self-contained" HAL cruise experience, this package does its own marketing.

 

For the life of me,I don't understand why Oceania keeps sending me almost weekly heavy, glossy brochures. When do they realize I am  a marketing fail for them and take me off their list?

 

Yes, having more "sedate and self-contained" afternoon activities - lectures, with post-lecture discussions,, staff interactions -like the mystery box cooking contests, craft demonstrations (not sales pitches), float-your-boat contests, etc was a fun part of prior HAL cruising.

 

Why they ended them?  I don't know. But there is a dearth of those former, more minor and low key onboard  activities today.No quibble with that.  Which I chalk up to still being in the "post-covid" shakedown time until the entire industry gets its sea legs again.

[*Miss G*]

11 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

A lot of people just want to "take a cruise." I know people who tell me they have booked a cruise. Oh, what ship? I don't remember is often the answer. 

 

We were on a hotel shuttle to PEV a couple of years ago.  When the driver asked one couple which ship they answered “We don’t know.”  When asked which cruise line, the answer was the same.  🫢

 

I don’t understand how wanting a beverage after midnight equates into late night drinking, partying, hangovers, etc.  That’s pretty judgemental.

[Colorado Klutch]

1 hour ago, eroller said:

 

You’re joking right?  Either that or living in the dark ages.  No cruise line wonders what HAL’s secret is nor do you see any cruise company trying to emulate HAL.  Even HAL is not happy with its formula/image and is constantly trying to appeal to a broader audience.  The fact is most lines are grateful they don’t have the image problem of HAL, and HAL probably wishes they didn’t either.  
 

How many new ships does HAL have on order?  How many does Princess, Cunard, P&O, AIDA, Carnival, and Costa have?   There is your answer to which brands are performing best.  Is Carnival racing to reallocate tonnage from a sister brand to HAL?  Not to my knowledge.  They are with the Carnival brand.  The notion that HAL is subsiding other Carnival brands is wishful thinking at best.  They can barely fill their own ships without resorting to “priced to fill” rock bottom per diems.  Fact is they have offloaded as many HAL ships as they can to right-size the brand.  

 

Carnival seems to the cruise line with the current image problem. The Internet is aglow with onboard fist fights aboard Carnival ships. (Although not all these fight scenes are aboard Carnival ships, the vas majority are.) Do a search and you will start thinking of Carnival as "The Fight Club Cruise Line". Clearly they are aware of this since they recently started sending very stern letters to customers advising them to be respectful of their fellow passengers and crew or they will be kicked off the ship and responsible for getting themselves home. 

Compared to that, I'm thinking HAL is glad to have only a sedate image to deal with. They will figure it out. There are some very talented people in the cruise industry. They lose their way sometimes, but then they get back on course. (Although I can't imagine who would want a poolside "oil boy".)

[albingirl]

1 hour ago, *Miss G* said:

 

We were on a hotel shuttle to PEV a couple of years ago.  When the driver asked one couple which ship they answered “We don’t know.”  When asked which cruise line, the answer was the same.  🫢

 

I don’t understand how wanting a beverage after midnight equates into late night drinking, partying, hangovers, etc.  That’s pretty judgemental.

I don't think it's judgemental to call drinking after midnight late night drinking. Let's call it early morning drinking.

[eroller]

1 hour ago, Colorado Klutch said:

 

Carnival seems to the cruise line with the current image problem. The Internet is aglow with onboard fist fights aboard Carnival ships. (Although not all these fight scenes are aboard Carnival ships, the vas majority are.) Do a search and you will start thinking of Carnival as "The Fight Club Cruise Line". Clearly they are aware of this since they recently started sending very stern letters to customers advising them to be respectful of their fellow passengers and crew or they will be kicked off the ship and responsible for getting themselves home. 

Compared to that, I'm thinking HAL is glad to have only a sedate image to deal with. They will figure it out. There are some very talented people in the cruise industry. They lose their way sometimes, but then they get back on course. (Although I can't imagine who would want a poolside "oil boy".)

 

 

Carnival Cruise Lines has a behavior problem onboard its ships.  That I will agree with and they are trying to address it.  Carnival's marketing though is brilliant.  They know exactly who their market is and exactly how to market to them.  The product offers exactly what they promise, and I'm fairly certain they have a higher repeat rate than HAL, which is no big surprise given their size.  Carnival (the brand) is doing very well judging by how many newbuilds the corporation is allotting to them, and also the fact the corporation is transferring 3 ships from sister brand Costa to Carnival about as quickly as physically possible.  They don't anticipate Carnival having any problem filling them, if with a very short lead-in time.  

 

Even with the bad behavior onboard, Carnival has far more appeal than HAL which as already discussed, has the reputation for being sedate and filled with senior citizens.  Sorry but sedate and senior is just not what most people are looking for in a cruise, and it doesn't market well. 

 

Whether they figure it out remains to be seen.  It hasn't happened yet and I've been sailing on HAL since the late 70's.  It was a very different line back then, more appealing I think and plenty of families onboard.  In fact I was just a kid and have many fond memories on my first HAL voyage on the STATENDAM (1957) and later on ROTTERDAM V.  What a ship!  Somewhere along the line things changed and no matter how hard HAL has tried to change the image (and believe me they have tried hard), it hasn't worked.  They know though that only appealing to a select senior clientele is suicide.  Smaller more niche lines may get away with that, but HAL is a big mass-market line with large ships.  They can't afford that kind of niche appeal.  They must appeal to a broader audience especially as their core clientele dies off.   

 

Post-COVID the line has shrunk and there are ZERO ships on order.  That tells you something.  It will be years before HAL gets any new tonnage, and perhaps that will give them time to focus on enhancing the brand, whatever that may mean. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[lissie]

5 hours ago, eroller said:

 

 

Funny I just wrote the above yesterday about Cunard, and today I see this post from Cunard on my Twitter feed.  Not only is Cunard embracing nightlife onboard, they are enhancing it by adding more options such as a silent disco (hugely popular on many lines).  Miraculously they even have the staffing to support a bar open past midnight!   The irony is that Cunard is so similar to HAL in many ways, yet so different.  They have Vista Class ships (and soon a Pinnacle Class) and the age demographic is very similar, yet Cunard is so much more vibrant and actually has nightlife. 

Interesting comment. We've done pretty much all our cruising on Cunard - but our next is on HAL - we've run out of itineraries on Cunard and we're all about the itineraries and ballroom dancing.  

 

I didn't think much or anything was open on Cunard after about 1am - we were on the late sitting for dinner - so after the show its pretty much 11pm anyways. The orchestra  in the Queens Room never went past middnight, but we would go up to the Crows Nest for cocktails and never saw closing - though to be fair we are lightweights these days. Sometimes the adjacent nighclub was busy sometimes empty. 

 

BUT - these were long voyages with up to 8 days in a row at sea.  On the days we were in port - we would generally eat dinner in the Lido and collapse in the room around 10pm. Given our trip on Zaandam  has 21 port days in 25 I really don't care if there is nightlife or not - just give me a meal and a drink.  I suspect most other people will be the same. 

[lissie]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

You've repeatedly said that you want HAL to stay as it is. But HAL isn't and hasn't been staying the same. HAL was never a "bare bones" cruise line until very recently. It was the premium line that Carnival acquired to give their overall brand some class. Once upon a time, HAL food was good, HAL entertainment was the equal of other lines, and their service and shipboard ambience were excellent. HAL in those days had music, dancing, lively deck parties, themed evenings -- all of which encouraged a vivacious experience. 

 

Now, about all HAL has to boast about are good itineraries (and kudos to them for finally recognizing it), and pleasant -- if sometimes stretched too far -- service. It's as if HAL is Kodak, ignoring the digital revolution. You seem to believe that HAL will continue to attract cruisers in search of a sedate atmosphere. But what I read elsewhere on these boards is that today's retirees also want what is out there on other lines -- better and more interesting food and entertainment, more options of things to do on board that involve lifelong learning, etc. 

 

Funnily enough over on the Cunard board the Cunarders think Carnival acquired Cunard to give their brand class!   

 

I'm jumping over to HAL not for the nightlife but for the itinerary and the price point (compared to Ponant, Viking who were the other options on this trip) 

[eroller]

2 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

 

HAL currently is caught in the middle trying to offer both. And probably failing as a brand as a result of this departure from its former loyal and older passenger base.  (Opinion)

 

Well we can agree on that, failing as a brand.  At least you can see that.  We may not agree on the reasons why, because I don't see any departure from its loyal older pax base as you suggest.  In fact the product more than ever is catering to that group (hence no drinks after midnight, no activities, no live music, pathetic shows).  So I don't think that is the reason for the brands failure, but perhaps just the opposite. 

[eroller]

10 minutes ago, lissie said:

Funnily enough over on the Cunard board the Cunarders think Carnival acquired Cunard to give their brand class!   

 

 

 

Well Cunard is probably the classiest brand in the Carnival Corp. portfolio.  Perhaps not the most expensive (Seabourn) but the one with the most class. 

 

I'm glad you're not looking for any nightlife on your HAL cruise because you won't find it.  I've done longer cruises on Cunard and many many crossings, and the onboard atmosphere is so different than HAL even though they have a similar age demographic and ships (Vistas).  Cunard is far more international and that is part of the appeal for me.  HAL is very middle-America.  The Cunard Vistas are far more elegant ... and yes they have a dedicated nightclub!  LOL   Sometimes it's full and sometimes it isn't, but at least it's there.  I have fond memories dancing in the Yacht Club on QUEEN VICTORIA (after midnight gasp!) during a Norway cruise.  The sun never set and as you may recall it has a glass ceiling over the dance floor.  Felt odd but unique and fun.  On some of my QM2 crossings the G32 nightclub was more hopping than anything you could experience on Carnival.   Back in the day the Yacht Club on QE2 during crossings was legendary, and it went well past midnight.  It was almost as busy as the laundromat onboard!  LOL   

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

Well we can agree on that, failing as a brand.  At least you can see that.  We may not agree on the reasons why, because I don't see any departure from its loyal older pax base as you suggest.  In fact the product more than ever is catering to that group (hence no drinks after midnight, no activities, no live music, pathetic shows).  So I don't think that is the reason for the brands failure, but perhaps just the opposite. 

 

I don't think older clientele want less entertainment or fewer activities. I think they put up with the situation and hope it will get better. There's comfort in the familiar, I'll admit to feeling that way. But I don't like the way HAL is going. I was bored on Eurodam in January. 

 

Unfortunately, I don't see a lot of other options that work for me for a winter warm getaway, which is most of what I do on HAL. I don't want a mega ship or a Carnival-type party ship. I sail solo, and I don't like the price of a lot of the smaller, all inclusive lines. I'm not sure I want to move down the "food chain" and sail on lines that are running older ships. The only other line I sail (and prefer), Cunard, doesn't offer much leaving from the US. Now that they've taken to skipping NY on the way to the Caribbean at the time I want to travel, I feel like HAL is what's left. Or maybe just go to a resort somewhere and sit on a beach. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, eroller said:

 

Well Cunard is probably the classiest brand in the Carnival Corp. portfolio.  Perhaps not the most expensive (Seabourn) but the one with the most class. 

 

I'm glad you're not looking for any nightlife on your HAL cruise because you won't find it.  I've done longer cruises on Cunard and many many crossings, and the onboard atmosphere is so different than HAL even though they have a similar age demographic and ships (Vistas).  Cunard is far more international and that is part of the appeal for me.  HAL is very middle-America.  The Cunard Vistas are far more elegant ... and yes they have a dedicated nightclub!  LOL   Sometimes it's full and sometimes it isn't, but at least it's there.  I have fond memories dancing in the Yacht Club on QUEEN VICTORIA (after midnight gasp!) during a Norway cruise.  The sun never set and as you may recall it has a glass ceiling over the dance floor.  Felt odd but unique and fun.  On some of my QM2 crossings the G32 nightclub was more hopping than anything you could experience on Carnival.   Back in the day the Yacht Club on QE2 during crossings was legendary, and it went well past midnight.  It was almost as busy as the laundromat onboard!  LOL   

 

Yeah, but I bet the Yacht Club never had any fights!!!

[eroller]

5 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Yeah, but I bet the Yacht Club never had any fights!!!

No fights but lots of interesting stuff to grab your attention. Cunard has a much more eclectic group of passengers than HAL.  Especially back in the days of QE2 some were quite eccentric .  Made things very interesting.  

[eroller]

19 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I don't think older clientele want less entertainment or fewer activities. I think they put up with the situation and hope it will get better. There's comfort in the familiar, I'll admit to feeling that way. But I don't like the way HAL is going. I was bored on Eurodam in January. 

 

 

I agree completely but there are some on here that love it just the way it is.  No live music. No activities.  No decent evening show.  Basically no noise.  The equivalent of a nursing home where everyone is napping in silence.  
 

I’m no spring chicken and I’ve also outgrown the party all night atmosphere of Carnival.  I still enjoy live music, dancing, a good show after dinner, a soloist perhaps playing by the pool, and GASP even the occasional drink past midnight.  I actually get all that on Celebrity and much better food too, but they are much more expensive than HAL especially of late.  So for the next cruise at least I find myself on HAL, but they are far from my line of choice.  Every time I go I hope things have changed for the better.  On NIEUW STATENDAM pre-COVID they did and I was quite impressed.  I thought wow this is a new HAL!   The ship was alive, great decor, live music, decent shows, and really good food. Then NIEUW AMSTERDAM this last October.  What a disappointment.  Lackluster at best.  But I keep trying because I love variety (I’m not loyal to any brand) and I also know cruise lines keep evolving.  It’s worth going back.  

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[lissie]

45 minutes ago, eroller said:

I'm glad you're not looking for any nightlife on your HAL cruise because you won't find it.  I've done longer cruises on Cunard and many many crossings, and the onboard atmosphere is so different than HAL even though they have a similar age demographic and ships (Vistas).  Cunard is far more international and that is part of the appeal for me.  HAL is very middle-America.  

Yes the middle America thing is going to be pretty darn weird to us I must admit. Although we rarely meet other New Zealanders on Cunard (though they advertise heavily here - its just a numbers game) - I was really impressed on our 2 longer cruises the eclectic passengers on board which was everyone from middle America taking a 5 day "vacation" being exposed to those of us doing 3 months overseas - mind blown and very funny as we tried to explain each other's point of view. And then was craft corner with deep south Catholic, New York Jewish scientist, and   atheist Australians and NZers - dealing with a Covid outbreak on board - it was absolutely fascinating. No blows were traded, and we formed a formidable trivia team with some of them! 

 

We also like that Cunard attracts a really interesting LGBTQ group - we normally get to know the ones that dance and they are usually some of the nicest and well-travelled passengers.  Its really nice to be in an environment where 2 men dancing waltz together doesn't get a second glance.  

 

HAL has a ship in NZ all summer - and I assume those cruises have quite a different demographic 

 

I wonder if HALs problem is they don't have guest laundromats? That's where the real action is. There was an interesting moment -where the ship turned around after leaving Oman several hours later - went back to port - dropped a passenger off and left again. No explanation, no announcement.  It wasn't a medical evac. There was also a rumour of someone putting a chocolate in someone else's load of laundry in a dryer.... It was unclear if the 2 were related... 

Edited March 9, 2023 by lissie

[eroller]

24 minutes ago, lissie said:

Yes the middle America thing is going to be pretty darn weird to us I must admit. Although we rarely meet other New Zealanders on Cunard (though they advertise heavily here - its just a numbers game) - I was really impressed on our 2 longer cruises the eclectic passengers on board which was everyone from middle America taking a 5 day "vacation" being exposed to those of us doing 3 months overseas - mind blown and very funny as we tried to explain each other's point of view. And then was craft corner with deep south Catholic, New York Jewish scientist, and   atheist Australians and NZers - dealing with a Covid outbreak on board - it was absolutely fascinating. No blows were traded, and we formed a formidable trivia team with some of them! 

 

We also like that Cunard attracts a really interesting LGBTQ group - we normally get to know the ones that dance and they are usually some of the nicest and well-travelled passengers.  Its really nice to be in an environment where 2 men dancing waltz together doesn't get a second glance.  

 

HAL has a ship in NZ all summer - and I assume those cruises have quite a different demographic 

 

I wonder if HALs problem is they don't have guest laundromats? That's where the real action is. There was an interesting moment -where the ship turned around after leaving Oman several hours later - went back to port - dropped a passenger off and left again. No explanation, no announcement.  It wasn't a medical evac. There was also a rumour of someone putting a chocolate in someone else's load of laundry in a dryer.... It was unclear if the 2 were related... 

 

 

Boy are you right about the Cunard laundromats!  They are the things legends are made of.  The QE2's large laundry on Deck 3 aft was where all the action was.  LOL  My grandmother spent a lot of time in there as I guess she enjoyed doing laundry even on vacation.  It was a social time too and she got all the gossip ... and yes there were strict unwritten rules about laundry being left in machines and such things.  Thankfully no knife fights ... that I know of!  You were best not to mess with those ladies though! 

 

You are also spot on about the eclectic mix of people on Cunard.  It's one of the things I love about sailing on them.  You just never know who you might be sitting next to.  I'm part of the LGBTQ community and there is always a large group on Cunard with lively nightly gatherings in the Commodore Club (aka Commodorothy Club).  Lots of guys from the UK, Germany, Australia, the US, and other far off places.  That goes for the general pax compliment as well.  It keeps me coming back to Cunard again and again. 

 

Unfortunately it's not the same on HAL, but you might get lucky with a more International and eclectic  group with the sailings out of NZ.  Anyway sounds like the ports are the priority and for sure you will have a comfortable and nice way to travel between them.     

 

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by eroller

[BermudaBound2014]

As more of the generation X crowd enters retirement age, we are absolutely looking for longer and more exotic itineraries. That’s always been HALs niche- They are a main stream line offering similar itineraries as the more luxury lines at a price point that is attractive.
 

I suspect that most newly retired Generation X’ers want bars open past midnight. I sure hope someone at HAL is paying attention to those of us who are retired yet still quite active. We are a growing market share. 

 

IMO where HaL is really struggling is attracting customers to its more common 7 night trips. Those itineraries aren’t selling well. 
 

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

4 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

HAL has long been known as having the highest repeat passengers in the industry. Other cruise lines wonder, what is HAL's secret.

 
I’m going to need a reference for this claim. 

[eroller]

4 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

As more of the generation Z crowd enters retirement age, we are absolutely looking for longer and more exotic itineraries. That’s always been HALs niche- They are a main stream line offering similar itineraries as the more luxury lines at a price point that is attractive.
 

I suspect that most newly retired Generation Z’ers want bars open past midnight. I sure hope someone at HAL is paying attention to those of us who are retired yet still quite active. We are a growing market share. 

 

IMO where HaL is really struggling is attracting customers to its more common 7 night trips. Those itineraries aren’t selling well. 
 

 

 

 

 

Great points and I agree completely with all said.  I'm in my 50's but HAL is far too sedate for me.  Yes I like quiet time but I also want to be able to dance, have a drink after midnight, listen to music, watch a decent show, etc etc if the mood strikes.  It's important to have all that accessible and available on a large ship line like HAL. 

 

Based upon what I paid for my NA cruise last October and the Rotterdam cruise later this month, I think you are spot-on about the shorter cruises.  Every single option was more expensive, even budget lines like MSC and Carnival.  So HAL it is.  I'm not always price-driven but sometimes, especially for a short quick getaway departing from my hometown.  Also I wanted to try out the new flagship of HAL.  I've sailed on the past two Rotterdams so of course had to try out the latest. 

[BermudaBound2014]

I’m in my mid 50s and agree that HAL appears to be a bit too sedate for me also. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate enrichment speakers and have been known to do some adult coloring (with an adult beverage), but I need more if I’m going to commit to an extended voyage. For a cheap 7 nighter-sure :). 

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

I’m in my mid 50s and agree that HAL appears to be a bit too sedate for me also. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate enrichment speakers and have been known to do some adult coloring (with an adult beverage), but I need more if I’m going to commit to an extended voyage. For a cheap 7 nighter-sure :). 

Am in my mid 70s and now wonder if HAL is too sedate for me.  We have always enjoyed decent speakers, but really have no time for cruise directors that read scripts (in place of decent lecturers).  And we have a problem being "wowed" by BBC documentaries, dark nights, lack of Production Shows, History of HAL, etc.  Being on a ship for weeks (or months) with many sea days cries out for decent entertainment.

 

Hank

[HALcruiser2001]

12 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

First, let me say that I like HAL (primarily at this point for their itineraries and lingering nostalgia for past family experiences), and I want to see the line continue.

 

In this vein, I am greatly concerned by the number of posters I encounter on other boards here on CC who were once loyal HAL cruisers but have since jumped ship. At the same time, I encounter many other cruisers who will not venture aboard a HAL ship -- despite looking for alternatives to lines with, shall we say, less sophisticated onboard atmospheres -- due to its current reputation. A reputation that is reinforced by posts from many of those who have fled for greener pastures.

 

HAL cannot continue to alienate BOTH long-time cruisers and potential new cruisers with their offerings. The hardcore group of cruisers who will never leave HAL no matter what is not enough to sustain the line. You cannot fill up the number of ships HAL currently has with those who are willing to forego what is considered a baseline of services/options for the better mass market lines (which I consider to be Celebrity, Princess, and HAL).

 

You've repeatedly said that you want HAL to stay as it is. But HAL isn't and hasn't been staying the same. HAL was never a "bare bones" cruise line until very recently. It was the premium line that Carnival acquired to give their overall brand some class. Once upon a time, HAL food was good, HAL entertainment was the equal of other lines, and their service and shipboard ambience were excellent. HAL in those days had music, dancing, lively deck parties, themed evenings -- all of which encouraged a vivacious experience. 

 

Now, about all HAL has to boast about are good itineraries (and kudos to them for finally recognizing it), and pleasant -- if sometimes stretched too far -- service. It's as if HAL is Kodak, ignoring the digital revolution. You seem to believe that HAL will continue to attract cruisers in search of a sedate atmosphere. But what I read elsewhere on these boards is that today's retirees also want what is out there on other lines -- better and more interesting food and entertainment, more options of things to do on board that involve lifelong learning, etc. 

 

I suspect it suits your cruising style to support HAL continuing to pare down until they become similar to your much-liked CMV cruises. But -- like my own much-liked Voyages to Antiquity -- there is a very small niche for these kinds of cruises. And HAL is not a niche line, it is a mass-market line with 9 ships that carry 2,000 or more passengers with berths that must be filled week in and week out.

 

 

 

Sorry..... can't agree with any of this.

 

I have done 3 Neptune suites.   2001ish, 2006 and 2023.    All cruises have been high quality.    I don't even understand these types of comments.   Bands/music were far, far better this year.    I may try Celebrity but on our Feb cruise it would have been 18k vs 10k.

 

I dont believe a single post about poor food, portions, etc 

 

I rocked 3 music venues for about 4 hours a night.

 

Silent disco is a darned joke.   LMAO.

 

I the 7 days on ms NS I did not meet anyone that shared this opinion.

Edited March 10, 2023 by bdd123