Norovirus Caught on Koningsdam

[trixiee]

16 minutes ago, Chefaleslie said:

Why are you being rude to food service workers? The answer they need to give you is, they are doing it because it's the rules they are told to follow. You trying to be "smarter" than the people that serve you food is nothing but mean spirited, and distasteful. If you want to have a serious discussion about the importance of proper glove wearing you need to speak with the heads of the CDC that come and do the inspections and set the rules for cruise ship food safety. Please be nice to the people that handle your food they deserve more respect than you are giving them currently. 

Sorry, Chefaleslie - He is correct.  Misuse of these gloves is rampant.  And it's not only food service workers - it's housekeepers, nurses, you name it - anyone wearing them. 

I didn't think he was being rude.  A simple request to change to new gloves before touching your food is not abusive. IMO

[Mary229]

39 minutes ago, syesmar said:

I never thought I would be as stringent as I am now about not touching anything in public with my bare hands, using a clean paper towel or napkin as a barrier, but here I am😂🤷‍♀️

I must say, though, that it’s worked out for me so far; I haven’t even had a slight sniffle in over 3 1/2 years, thankfully.

To go way off topic this reminds me of a Texan who told me his grandmother lived to 92 and slept every night with a gun under her pillow, I said my grandmother lived to 92 and never touched a gun - you get my point.  

[scooter6139]

I've been on a few cruises to witness what I call the "Niles Crane" behavior.  I try to be cautious, but sometimes it just is too much.  I can't enjoy a cruise if I can't touch anything anywhere on a cruise ship.  Might as well wear a full hazmat suit or at least wear your own latex gloves at all times.  😉

[highscar]

I wore food grade clear plastic gloves on the casino slot machines.  Kept my finger tips clean.  

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, Chefaleslie said:

Why are you being rude to food service workers? The answer they need to give you is, they are doing it because it's the rules they are told to follow. You trying to be "smarter" than the people that serve you food is nothing but mean spirited, and distasteful. If you want to have a serious discussion about the importance of proper glove wearing you need to speak with the heads of the CDC that come and do the inspections and set the rules for cruise ship food safety. Please be nice to the people that handle your food they deserve more respect than you are giving them currently.

Don't intend to be rude at all.  Having been retired for a number of years, my copy of the US Public Health Service Food Service Sanitation Manual is out of date.  Perhaps you can refer me to the sections in the current manual that addresses where and when gloves are required for food service workers.

 

The answer to the most contaminated areas in medical and food operations, in my experience, were:

 

Medical - door knobs and stethoscopes.  Swab samples transferred to a petri dish grew more cultures than anything else.

 

Food Operations - visually the nastiest places were the big can opener for #10 cans and the back of the meat slicer.  I could check those two locations and know how the rest of the inspection was going to go.  Swab cultures - anywhere near the cash register and the knobs on hand and dishwashing sinks were consistently contaminated.  Plastic gloves were not ubiquitous back then - but I would love to take some swab samples nowadays.

 

As I've said before, be suspicious of any food workers who wear plastic gloves and watch closely what those gloves touch.

[SargassoPirate]

30 minutes ago, scooter6139 said:

I've been on a few cruises to witness what I call the "Niles Crane" behavior.  I try to be cautious, but sometimes it just is too much.  I can't enjoy a cruise if I can't touch anything anywhere on a cruise ship.  Might as well wear a full hazmat suit or at least wear your own latex gloves at all times.  😉

I don't worry at all what I touch on a ship or anywhere   I just break the chain of contamination by washing/sanitizing my hands before I touch my food.

 

No need to go all Niles Crane at all.

[Florida_gal_50]

42 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

To go way off topic this reminds me of a Texan who told me his grandmother lived to 92 and slept every night with a gun under her pillow, I said my grandmother lived to 92 and never touched a gun - you get my point.  

I don't know why it bothers people so much. I still wear my mask on buses, ubers, grocery stores etc. I'm one of the few people I know that has never had covid.  A few of my colleagues have had it a few times this year.

[Florida_gal_50]

14 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

I don't worry at all what I touch on a ship or anywhere   I just break the chain of contamination by washing/sanitizing my hands before I touch my food.

 

No need to go all Niles Crane at all.

I do that as well.  It would bother me far more to eat or touch things with dirty hands.  I think for some it's extra flavor :).

[Mary229]

11 minutes ago, Florida_gal_50 said:

I don't know why it bothers people so much. I still wear my mask on buses, ubers, grocery stores etc. I'm one of the few people I know that has never had covid.  A few of my colleagues have had it a few times this year.

It doesn’t bother me what other people do.  I am a bit OCD about hand washing myself but I can laugh about it 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Mary229

[SargassoPirate]

I honestly think that two things that have kept me healthy over seven decades so far have been rigorous handwashing (pre-vaccine polio days) and playing outside in the dirt.

 

My grandmother always said "You gotta eat a peck of dirt before you die"

 

Safe travels.

[OlsSalt]

37 minutes ago, highscar said:

I wore food grade clear plastic gloves on the casino slot machines.  Kept my finger tips clean.  

 

That is step one - clean fingertips.

 

Keeping them out of eyes, mouth and nose is where the contamination chain gets inadvertently broken.

 

I always picture myself wearing a large plastic dog collar like the vet uses after surgery - keeps pets from licking their new wounds.  

 

My imaginary "dog collar" reminds me to keep my  finger tips, clean or otherwise,  away from my nose, mouth and eyes.

[Destiny0315]

39 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

As I've said before, be suspicious of any food workers who wear plastic gloves and watch closely what those gloves touch.

Remind me not to get behind you in the line at the Deli/Fish dept in a supermarket.😀

[Chefaleslie]

39 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Don't intend to be rude at all.  Having been retired for a number of years, my copy of the US Public Health Service Food Service Sanitation Manual is out of date.  Perhaps you can refer me to the sections in the current manual that addresses where and when gloves are required for food service workers.

 

The answer to the most contaminated areas in medical and food operations, in my experience, were:

 

Medical - door knobs and stethoscopes.  Swab samples transferred to a petri dish grew more cultures than anything else.

 

Food Operations - visually the nastiest places were the big can opener for #10 cans and the back of the meat slicer.  I could check those two locations and know how the rest of the inspection was going to go.  Swab cultures - anywhere near the cash register and the knobs on hand and dishwashing sinks were consistently contaminated.  Plastic gloves were not ubiquitous back then - but I would love to take some swab samples nowadays.

 

As I've said before, be suspicious of any food workers who wear plastic gloves and watch closely what those gloves touch.

Food Worker Handwashing and Restaurant Factors - EHS-Net Study Findings and Recommendations (cdc.gov)

Specifically: Handwashing may not always be enough to stop the spread of germs from hands to food. So the FDA recommends use of barriers such as gloves to stop the spread of germs. But research on handwashing and glove use in restaurants shows that these practices do not occur as often as they should. To improve these practices, we must understand factors linked with these practices. We interviewed and watched food workers to collect data on these practices.

 

Once again, please don't go in "quizzing" the people that are wearing gloves. These people are just following the rules. They should be regularly cleaning their can openers, changing the sanitizer, and changing gloves and washing hands between different foods. The front-line workers are following the rules to the best of their ability, and to the direction of their management staff. instead of quizzing them on the reasoning behind why they do things (the answer is always because they are paid to), you should ask about their day, if they got to get off the ship, when they get to go home.  These people are my people, I respect them and appreciate them. I currently and have always worked in food service, it's a hard enough job without know it all's trying to show how much smarter they are then the rest of us. 

[ShipWalker]

Washing your hands and food workers wearing gloves are simply two slices of the Swiss cheese model for infection.

 

(One of the topics we got into during our company safety meeting years ago on prevention.)

[cccole]

OlsSalt, Love the comparison to a plastic dog collar.  I heard a program about health during the winter months many years ago and the most important thing was "DO NOT TOUCH YOU EYES, NOSE, OR MOUTH" before you have washed your hands.  Great advice.  It works for me, but when driving home from a store I have to remind myself not to scratch the itch on my nose or eyes.  If you touch something that is contaminated it will not cause you a problem unless you transfer the contamination to your face.  Of course there are airborne diseases but that's another topic.  JMO. Cherie

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, Chefaleslie said:

Food Worker Handwashing and Restaurant Factors - EHS-Net Study Findings and Recommendations (cdc.gov)

Specifically: Handwashing may not always be enough to stop the spread of germs from hands to food. So the FDA recommends use of barriers such as gloves to stop the spread of germs. But research on handwashing and glove use in restaurants shows that these practices do not occur as often as they should. To improve these practices, we must understand factors linked with these practices. We interviewed and watched food workers to collect data on these practices.

 

Once again, please don't go in "quizzing" the people that are wearing gloves. These people are just following the rules. They should be regularly cleaning their can openers, changing the sanitizer, and changing gloves and washing hands between different foods. The front-line workers are following the rules to the best of their ability, and to the direction of their management staff. instead of quizzing them on the reasoning behind why they do things (the answer is always because they are paid to), you should ask about their day, if they got to get off the ship, when they get to go home.  These people are my people, I respect them and appreciate them. I currently and have always worked in food service, it's a hard enough job without know it all's trying to show how much smarter they are then the rest of us. 

Still waiting on your reference to the Food Service Sanitation Manual that addresses when and where gloves are required for food workers.

 

Maybe you can add your view on how gloves worn while touching contaminated surfaces and then food or clean utensils is an acceptable practice.

 

Until then, I stand by my view that gloves worn by food service workers only serve to keep their hands clean AND serve as excellent vectors for cross contamination.

[Chefaleslie]

41 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

Still waiting on your reference to the Food Service Sanitation Manual that addresses when and where gloves are required for food workers.

 

Maybe you can add your view on how gloves worn while touching contaminated surfaces and then food or clean utensils is an acceptable practice.

 

Until then, I stand by my view that gloves worn by food service workers only serve to keep their hands clean AND serve as excellent vectors for cross contamination.

"They should be used when handling ready- to-eat food. The exceptions include when washing produce, or when handling ready-to-eat ingredients for a dish that will be cooked to the correct internal temperature. Gloves must never be used in place of handwashing."

this is taken from the us servesafe manager handbook. That all American restaurants need to have a manager on duty certified by. 

I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, I don't really want to waste either if our time with that. I do want you to stop "having a little fun" by quizzing food service workers about doing their jobs. I can assure you they don't appreciate your trying to prove how much smarter you are than they are. It's not a good look. 

https://www.smchealth.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/servsafe_glove_use_11.15.pdf?1485884271#:~:text=They%20should%20be%20used%20when,used%20in%20place%20of%20handwashing.

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, Chefaleslie said:

"They should be used when handling ready- to-eat food. The exceptions include when washing produce, or when handling ready-to-eat ingredients for a dish that will be cooked to the correct internal temperature. Gloves must never be used in place of handwashing."

this is taken from the us servesafe manager handbook. That all American restaurants need to have a manager on duty certified by. 

I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, I don't really want to waste either if our time with that. I do want you to stop "having a little fun" by quizzing food service workers about doing their jobs. I can assure you they don't appreciate your trying to prove how much smarter you are than they are. It's not a good look. 

https://www.smchealth.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/servsafe_glove_use_11.15.pdf?1485884271#:~:text=They should be used when,used in place of handwashing.

Thank you for supporting my position on gloves and cross-contamination.  Your reference "They should be used when handling ready to eat food" makes sense, only if the gloves are then discarded before touching any other surface and returning to handling food.  That seems to work in Subway sandwich shops, but when I see food service workers wearing the same gloves to touch non-food preparation surfaces and then food without changing the gloves, I will continue to challenge them by asking why they are wearing gloves.

 

Just this past week I watched a food worker in a major hotel chain clear tables of dirty dishes and then pick up four tumblers in one hand by sticking her fingers down inside them, place them on a table, fill them with iced tea, and then wearing the same gloves place an unwrapped straw into each tumbler and serve them to unsuspecting guests.

 

Does that go unchallenged?

 

How about if it was your iced tea?