Why haven't daily gratuities gone down?

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, BennyandBo said:

"Other hotel services $7.00". LOL. Yeah, the salary Royal Caribbean wants us to pay, so they don't have to.

 

Then your cruise would be $3000 per person instead of $699 for an interior

[Ret MP]

I've stated this a few times on this board and others.  In the U.S. and other countries that use the same gratuity system as we have in the U.S., the server makes as much as they are worth, for the most part.  And, the minimum wage is for entry-level folks.  If you are a server in a Waffle House or the local China Buffet, chances are you are going to be in the minimum wage category.  If you work in a Ruth's Chris or above, you're way above the minimum wage.  If you work hard, keep your nose clean, and respect your employer, you can move up and earn more and more within an organization or by upward mobility.  

[Ret MP]

7 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

This is not their guarantees salary

Never said it was!

[BennyandBo]

Just now, Hoopster95 said:

 

Then your cruise would be $3000 per person instead of $699 for an interior

Why wouldn't be $699 plus the $240 for the automatic gratuities for a party of 2? Your figure is very dramatic.

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, Ret MP said:

And, the minimum wage is for entry-level folks.

 

Just now, Ret MP said:

Never said it was!

 

Please quote the Maritime Labor law and the minimum wage for the typical crusie ship worker.

That is all I ask from everyone on this thread.

[Hoopster95]

1 minute ago, BennyandBo said:

Why wouldn't be $699 plus the $240 for the automatic gratuities for a party of 2? Your figure is very dramatic.

 

Nope. The average cruise ship "worker" earns approx $2-3 per hour.

Why do you think every single Cruise ship in the World, other than NCL in Hawaii, is registered in off shore countries? Now figure out American minimum wage for 2000 employees on an Oasis Class ship, and see where your cruise fare ends up. And we see sooooooo many Americans lined up at Royal Caribbean trade shows trying to get a job as a cabin steward.

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

 

Please quote the Maritime Labor law and the minimum wage for the typical crusie ship worker.

That is all I ask from everyone on this thread.

Why don't you do that?  And what would it prove?  What are you getting at?

[BennyandBo]

Bottom line. If the job and pay are not good enough they can go work elsewhere in there home country. And I got news for you. They ain't gonna pull in the same money a month in a rice field. 

[BennyandBo]

Just now, Hoopster95 said:

 

Nope. The average cruise ship "worker" earns approx $2-3 per hour.

Why do you think every single Cruise ship in the World, other than NCL in Hawaii, is registered in off shore countries? Now figure out American minimum wage for 2000 employees on an Oasis Class ship, and see where your cruise fare ends up. And we see sooooooo many Americans lined up at Royal Caribbean trade shows trying to get a job as a cabin steward.

Who said pay them American wages

[davekathy]

Tough crowd. 

[Hoopster95]

2 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Why don't you do that?  And what would it prove?  What are you getting at?

I'd be insulting you if I instructed you on how to use "google".

 

What I am getting at is that the entire cruise industry has been a joke in not paying an appropriate salary to employees in order to falsely advertise low prices for cruises to us, the ignorant public. Those "gratuities" are what supplements the extremely low mandated wages

[pilot]

8 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

I don't know how accurate this is but it was posted on another cruise social media board.  As fare as their pay, ?????

 

Good info…if we were previously paying Stateroom Attendant $3.05/day and he was cleaning room twice a day…we are now paying him $3.05/day for once a day cleaning. 
 

I’m not saying that anyone should reduce tips, just realize that we are paying the same for less service. 

[BennyandBo]

Just now, Hoopster95 said:

I'd be insulting you if I instructed you on how to use "google".

 

What I am getting at is that the entire cruise industry has been a joke in not paying an appropriate salary to employees in order to falsely advertise low prices for cruises to us, the ignorant public. Those "gratuities" are what supplements the extremely low mandated wages

Nobody is ignorant. Everyone knows the price would be more if they got real pay and not tip pay. I think half don't care and the other half would feel better paying more upfront if they knew 100% the crew were getting it all. 

[NorthStarStateCruiser]

3 hours ago, shof515 said:

if royal needs to pay more for a crew, royal will pass that extra cost to you

I read this same line in a Dr Seuss book. Makes sense now.

[BennyandBo]

4 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

I'd be insulting you if I instructed you on how to use "google".

 

What I am getting at is that the entire cruise industry has been a joke in not paying an appropriate salary to employees in order to falsely advertise low prices for cruises to us, the ignorant public. Those "gratuities" are what supplements the extremely low mandated wages

I'm so sorry according to your posts we "don't understand" and are "ignorant". 

[Hoopster95]

2 minutes ago, BennyandBo said:

Nobody is ignorant. Everyone knows the price would be more if they got real pay and not tip pay. I think half don't care and the other half would feel better paying more upfront if they knew 100% the crew were getting it all. 

 

Excellent points

 

Everyone knows the price would be more if they got real pay and not tip pay.

I disagree. 

 

I think half don't care

I agree... probably more

 

and the other half would feel better paying more upfront if they knew 100% the crew were getting it all.

Totally disagree.

 

Go back to the last ten years of posts on this forum and read every single tip/salary discussion.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Ret MP]

Just now, Hoopster95 said:

I'd be insulting you if I instructed you on how to use "google".

 

What I am getting at is that the entire cruise industry has been a joke in not paying an appropriate salary to employees in order to falsely advertise low prices for cruises to us, the ignorant public. Those "gratuities" are what supplements the extremely low mandated wages

Trust me, I have no problem using Google.  I have about 20 years of Googling, the dark web, et al, while I was a criminal investigator.  I just find it suspect when people ask questions like you did.  And I don't really like doing other people's work for them just so they can try to prove a point, related or not.

 

I, for one, would rather have a little say-so over how much I'm being charged or pay for a service.  If my voluntary payment system helps keep the cost of service down, I'm happy to 

pay the gratuity, if I so desire, and based upon the quality of service received.  Where is the motivation for a guaranteed salary for service/hospitality?    A crew member gets the same salary if they work hard or not.  I'd prefer that they get up close, personal, and willing to please.  Not go by the numbers.

[not-enough-cruising]

40 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

Before anyone else on this topic makes one more post, I would like them to post exactly what a cruise worker gets paid, what law states their pay scale, and what these "gratuities" actually are.

 

The Joint Maritime Commission of the International Labour Organization has set seaman’s minimum monthly wage at USD $658 for 2023

[Hoopster95]

Just now, Ret MP said:

Trust me, I have no problem using Google.  I have about 20 years of Googling, the dark web, et al, while I was a criminal investigator.  I just find it suspect when people ask questions like you did.  And I don't really like doing other people's work for them just so they can try to prove a point, related or not.

 

I, for one, would rather have a little say-so over how much I'm being charged or pay for a service.  If my voluntary payment system helps keep the cost of service down, I'm happy to 

pay the gratuity, if I so desire, and based upon the quality of service received.  Where is the motivation for a guaranteed salary for service/hospitality?    A crew member gets the same salary if they work hard or not.  I'd prefer that they get up close, personal, and willing to please.  Not go by the numbers.

 

Great post. Thank you for being thoughtful rather than reactionary.

I googled the following in ten seconds:

 

"cruise employee salary maritime labor law"

https://www.google.com/search?q=cruise+employee+salary+maritime+labor+law&ei=A0lYZM-PB_KL0PEP_euFyA0&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiPnc-AwuT-AhXyBTQIHf11AdkQ8NMDegQIBhAW&biw=1565&bih=872&dpr=1

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make

 

https://highseascruising.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-royal-caribbean-norwegian-median-worker-pay-2019-6

 

"Carnival and Royal Caribbean paid their median employee less than $20,000 in 2018"

 

"1. Food service worker

National average salary: $31,798 per year

Primary duties: Food service workers are in charge of food and beverage preparation, storage and service. They should enjoy working with people and have basic math skills. They report to restaurant managers and usually work nontraditional hours, especially for opening shifts."

 

So $31,000 per year.... they work every single day, no days off, most split shifts 10-12 hours per day

[BennyandBo]

1 minute ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Excellent points

 

Everyone knows the price would be more if they got real pay and not tip pay.

I disagree. 

 

I think half don't care

I agree... probably more

 

and the other half would feel better paying more upfront if they knew 100% the crew were getting it all.

Totally disagree.

 

Go back to the last ten years of posts on this forum and read every single tip/salary discussion.

Ignorance is bliss.

Well I don't make six figures. The amounts I have read they make total per month with free room and bord seem OK to me. So I don't get the endless "those poor cruise ship workers" stuff that folks spill around here. Lots of people have it hard. Lots have low paying jobs. I tip what I can. Nothing extra. Just because I really can't. But these workers are no worse off then a lot of people I know. I can't go on a trip and fix the world's problems. Took 6 years to save for my trip. Life's tuff for many.

[BennyandBo]

3 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Great post. Thank you for being thoughtful rather than reactionary.

I googled the following in ten seconds:

 

"cruise employee salary maritime labor law"

https://www.google.com/search?q=cruise+employee+salary+maritime+labor+law&ei=A0lYZM-PB_KL0PEP_euFyA0&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiPnc-AwuT-AhXyBTQIHf11AdkQ8NMDegQIBhAW&biw=1565&bih=872&dpr=1

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make

 

https://highseascruising.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-royal-caribbean-norwegian-median-worker-pay-2019-6

 

"Carnival and Royal Caribbean paid their median employee less than $20,000 in 2018"

 

"1. Food service worker

National average salary: $31,798 per year

Primary duties: Food service workers are in charge of food and beverage preparation, storage and service. They should enjoy working with people and have basic math skills. They report to restaurant managers and usually work nontraditional hours, especially for opening shifts."

 

So $31,000 per year.... they work every single day, no days off, most split shifts 10-12 hours per day

For 3rd world workers that's good money. Look up there cost of living back home. 

[Hoopster95]

2 minutes ago, BennyandBo said:

The amounts I have read 

And what are those amounts you have read?

 

And then let's add that $16 per day gratuity from 6000 cruisers divided into 2000 employees on a per hour basis and see what they really get.

 

Bottom line is that of the cruise lines had to pay employees a "real" salary (based on North American Standards) without charging a "gratuity", your cruise fare would not be at all competitive. 

[Hoopster95]

3 minutes ago, BennyandBo said:

For 3rd world workers that's good money. Look up there cost of living back home. 

Yes I know.

Just know that without this "gratuity" there wouldn't be a cruise for you to go on.

It should really be called a mandatory "resort fee" or "service fee" like some hotels call it.

[BennyandBo]

2 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

And what are those amounts you have read?

 

And then let's add that $16 per day gratuity from 6000 cruisers divided into 2000 employees on a per hour basis and see what they really get.

 

Bottom line is that of the cruise lines had to pay employees a "real" salary (based on North American Standards) without charging a "gratuity", your cruise fare would not be at all competitive. 

So then I go every 12 years instead of every 6 years.

[Ret MP]

11 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

 

Great post. Thank you for being thoughtful rather than reactionary.

I googled the following in ten seconds:

 

"cruise employee salary maritime labor law"

https://www.google.com/search?q=cruise+employee+salary+maritime+labor+law&ei=A0lYZM-PB_KL0PEP_euFyA0&start=10&sa=N&ved=2ahUKEwiPnc-AwuT-AhXyBTQIHf11AdkQ8NMDegQIBhAW&biw=1565&bih=872&dpr=1

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make

 

https://highseascruising.com/how-much-do-cruise-ship-workers-make/

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/carnival-royal-caribbean-norwegian-median-worker-pay-2019-6

 

"Carnival and Royal Caribbean paid their median employee less than $20,000 in 2018"

 

"1. Food service worker

National average salary: $31,798 per year

Primary duties: Food service workers are in charge of food and beverage preparation, storage and service. They should enjoy working with people and have basic math skills. They report to restaurant managers and usually work nontraditional hours, especially for opening shifts."

 

So $31,000 per year.... they work every single day, no days off, most split shifts 10-12 hours per day

Now, break it down by social economic regions.  The vast majority, (my guess, not necessarily a researched fact) of servers in the U.S. work in the burbs and rural areas of the country.  That will bring down averages greatly.  Those that are getting the national average are probably working in low-cost areas of the country anyway and working the low-cost establishments.  Your use of statistics reminds me of J. Edgar Hoover who was one of the best manipulators of statistics this country has ever experienced.  He once went to Congress demanding a huge increase in the FBI's budget. One of many stats that he cited was that a city, I believe it was in Texas had a 100% increase in murders.   After the presentation, someone fact-checked the stat.  Hoover was 100% right on, the city had one murder one year and 2 the next.  As I said, those that work in the upscale establishments and the more expensive cities, and regions make A LOT more than minimum wage.  

 

Anyway, I'm sorry I got involved in this thread.  It's ridiculous.  Tip what you won't or don't.  Run for King of the world and change things.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Ret MP