New Crystal Financial Stabilty

[Keith1010]

47 minutes ago, bitob said:

There’s no revenue derived from public space

Oh so maybe ships should only have suites and stores.

 

Public space is for the guests to enjoy. Happy guests make repeat guests and also promote a line to others.

 

Keith

[Keith1010]

1 hour ago, moggyhill said:

ManFreddie would really disagree with that statement. 

Obviously he does agree with the statement.  The facts are that the ships were designed for many more guests.  Over the years guest capacity has been reduced and with the current dry dock guest capacity on both ships is reduced further while public space remains the same.

 

In short, with full ships guests have more public space per guest than ever before.

Keith

[bitob]

22 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

Oh so maybe ships should only have suites and stores.

 

Public space is for the guests to enjoy. Happy guests make repeat guests and also promote a line to others.

 

Keith

Time will tell. Plenty of public space on other lines. Not a big draw imo

[Keith1010]

46 minutes ago, bitob said:

Time will tell. Plenty of public space on other lines. Not a big draw imo

No. Time doesn't have to tell.

 

We are not talking about other lines.  We are talking about new Crystal.

 

Fact:  Less guest capacity after dry dock than before dry dock.

 

Fact:  This equates to more public space per person than before.

 

Every discussion doesn't have to involve other lines.

 

Keith

[bitob]

44 minutes ago, Keith1010 said:

No. Time doesn't have to tell.

 

We are not talking about other lines.  We are talking about new Crystal.

 

Fact:  Less guest capacity after dry dock than before dry dock.

 

Fact:  This equates to more public space per person than before.

 

Every discussion doesn't have to involve other lines.

 

Keith

You are implying it’s unique to crystal. It is not. You have not been on other ships in years. Public space is fabulous on some of the newer ships. 
 

I know you hate when we speak of other lines. But it is permissible and relevant. 

[Keith1010]

5 minutes ago, bitob said:

You are implying it’s unique to crystal. It is not. You have not been on other ships in years. Public space is fabulous on some of the newer ships. 
 

I know you hate when we speak of other lines. But it is permissible and relevant. 

Nope.

 

I never have implied anything.

Just stating fact. Crystal ships were designed for many more guests than they carried before shutdown and will carry after the dry dock.

 

I don't have to spend time comparing to other lines.  I am very happy since this is a Crystal Board to discuss Crystal without the need to compare Crystal to other lines.

 

I have sailed on many cruise lines over the years starting when I was 12 years young.  I don't spend time comparing. I rather enjoy each cruise. In fact, I don't spend time comparing one cruise on Crystal with another because each one is different.

 

So as to your pointI am not implying anything other than fact about the two Crystal ships.

 

Finally, there are some here who post about Crystal and who have not sailed the line for many years including one that you seem to agree with often. Just funny how you don't discount the posts in that case.

 

Anyway, the facts are the facts.

 

Keith

 

 

[bitob]

Funny indeed

[Keith1010]

Facts are the facts.

 

Not meant to be funny.

 

They are simply facts.

 

 

[bitob]

I’m still laughing

we seem to be basing our opinions on totally different facts 

 

you are certainly entitled to your opinions

but so am I 

[Keith1010]

42 minutes ago, bitob said:

I’m still laughing

we seem to be basing our opinions on totally different facts 

 

you are certainly entitled to your opinions

but so am I 

I'm not giving an opinion. Just stating a fact about the capacity.  Simply the passenger capacity of each ship is less than the original design not only to the present update but to prior ones.

Again not an opinion.

 

Most of what people post on CC is opinion but once in awhile there is fact.

 

For example, the month a ship makes a maiden voyage is fact. Where it was built was fact.

Who serves the best food is opinion.

Facts are facts.

Opinions are opinions.

 

Sometimes facts can be used to shape opinions but I am simply sharing a fact.

 

Having a good time doing this too.

 

Keith

[bitob]

I don’t need a lesson in fact vs opinion but thank you anyway

[History&Wine]

My first luxury cruise was a Crystal cruise.  I asked other passengers what they liked about Crystal, and why it was worth paying more than my usual choice (Celebrity cruises).  The most often reply was public space, which surprised me at the time.

 

I soon came to appreciate the public space.  Now New Crystal has given cruisers an option with more public space per passenger than most any other line.  Crystal has highlighted this in marketing. Food, service and entertainment are important to me.  Those and other features are made better by having more space per passenger. 

 

I think Crystal is on the right track here.  TWT.

[Keith1010]

I agree with all you said.

 

Ironically our first luxury cruise was Crystal and prior to that our favorite line was Celebrity.   Due to a couple we know who raved about Crystal we booked it.  

 

One of the things I like about the size of the ships and the space is there are places where you can get away from lots of people whether that is in the back of the decks or the promenade deck or even going up to a public room that isn't being used.

 

I actually think the amount of space is something to be promoted even more so than it has been even noting the percentage of guest capacity has been reduced by x percentage since the ships were designed.

Yes indeed. Time will tell.

 

Keith

[Keith1010]

42 minutes ago, K. Sera said:

Facts:

 

• No one on Cruise Critic knows if the new Crystal is financially stable.
• The old Crystal wasn't. And they also had a large-scale refurbishment reducing capacity and increasing public space which didn't prevent them from becoming unstable.
• It would be better for new Crystal if you booked now. But it's your money. Why not wait and see if they even make it to the starting line. So you don't line up with future future cruise credits on some other company that thinks they can make a new new Crystal work with old old ships.
• Happy Mothers Day!

 

I disagree with portions of your facts.

 

It was Genting's financials and poor decision  that did in Crystal.  It was Genting that was unstable.

 

As to the refurbishment this one is large scale and there is no comparison to this one to the makeovers the ships went through over many years

 

As a side note:

 

Speaking for myself,  I would be might be more concerned having my money in stocks right now than on deposit or with full payments to Crystal.  In fact, one of my wisest investments in 2008 was the money I had down with Crystal when things went topsy turvy.

 

Happy Mother's Day.

[bitob]

Fact

it was crystal

they knew or were totally inept if they didn’t know

my ta knew. His commission check bounced

Crystal, not genting, took our money as they saw unpaid bills and checks bouncing. 
 

facts

[Keith1010]

1 minute ago, bitob said:

Fact

it was crystal

they knew or were totally inept if they didn’t know

my ta knew. His commission check bounced

Crystal, not genting, took our money as they saw unpaid bills and checks bouncing. 
 

facts

Fact.

 

It was Genting not Crystal.  

 

And they didn't know the rug would be pulled and that is a fact.

 

Another fact.  Today is Mother's Day so in the spirit of that I am going to take a break from this since no minds will be changed to spend time with the Mother of our children. There is always tomorrow and that is my closing fact.

[Mr Luxury]

15 minutes ago, bitob said:

Fact

it was crystal

they knew or were totally inept if they didn’t know

my ta knew. His commission check bounced

Crystal, not genting, took our money as they saw unpaid bills and checks bouncing. 
 

facts

Yes,it was Crystal that guests were dealing with all the way and not Genting the holding company.

Now if it were called Genting cruise line that would be different.

It's not Mother's day here in the UK so I will post freely.

As far as I know Genting are still operating,Old Crystal are not.

New Crystal is still a chrysalis and waiting to be hatched.

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Mr Luxury

[ctjon]

I've worked in management for subsidiaries and we had very little (other than public) information about what was happening at parent.  Do you really think Crystal knew that Genting stopped paying the fuel suppliers so Crystal had to stop cruising.  Crystal had one of its best years before everything fell apart/

Was Crystal perfect - no but much of what happened to them was out of their control

[Texas Tillie]

43 minutes ago, Mr Luxury said:

Yes,it was Crystal that guests were dealing with all the way and not Genting the holding company.

Now if it were called Genting cruise line that would be different.

It's not Mother's day here in the UK so I will post freely.

As far as I know Genting are still operating,Old Crystal are not.

New Crystal is still a chrysalis and waiting to be hatched.

 

 

The Genting that owned Crystal IS NOT still operating. It's in bankruptcy. Like many uberwealthy, the crook who owned the various "Genting" organizations had his investments partitioned so that the left hand had to responsibility for the right hand.

[Texas Tillie]

7 minutes ago, ctjon said:

I've worked in management for subsidiaries and we had very little (other than public) information about what was happening at parent.  Do you really think Crystal knew that Genting stopped paying the fuel suppliers so Crystal had to stop cruising.  Crystal had one of its best years before everything fell apart/

Was Crystal perfect - no but much of what happened to them was out of their control

 

Agree 100% but you know there are many who post here who insist on their own "facts" and not the real facts.

[avalon244]

2 hours ago, K. Sera said:

Facts:

 

• No one on Cruise Critic knows if the new Crystal is financially stable.
• The old Crystal wasn't. And they also had a large-scale refurbishment reducing capacity and increasing public space which didn't prevent them from becoming unstable.
• It would be better for new Crystal if you booked now. But it's your money. Why not wait and see if they even make it to the starting line. So you don't line up with future future cruise credits on some other company that thinks they can make a new new Crystal work with old old ships.
• Happy Mothers Day!

No one is telling you to book anything on the new Crystal. Please don't tell me or anyone else not to.

[KenzSailing]

I'm beginning to think the old saying s wrong.  It turns out you can beat a dead horse.

[crickette]

With respect to public space:

  - public space on either ship has not increased

  - as an individual, I will not enjoy additional public spaces.  There are no new public spaces nor enlarged public spaces.

  - the statement that on a per capita basis, there is more public space per cruiser is not relevant to me.  I could easily find lots of places to be, without crowds.  Think Palm Court throughout the day.  Even Bistro, except when lectures finished.  MDR.  Marketplace.  

  - when I leave my cabin, I have no more, nor less, public spaces than OC  (excluding what NC does with the casino)

  - public space per capita is a marketing ploy.  Likens back to "free air" and other marketing phrases that had no basis in reality.

  - now IF they increased the size of the dance floor -- that, I would agree, is increased public space for me!

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by crickette

[Keith1010]

Back to facts.

 

Sorry but not all that is posted is fact. Take the post about Genting still operating which was corrected by Texas Tillie.  Genting Hong Kong went belly up and took down those lines it owned including Crystal. The fact is that starting a few months before the take down a suiter offered to buy Crystal but was rejected by Genting Hong Kong. Fact, people were trying to save Crystal at the end but the rug was pulled under them. So we have a case where what was posted was wrong and when corrected the person who posted it chose not to acknowledge a mistake. It's no big deal to say you are wrong. 

Fact.  The amount of public space has not changed.  Two things changed over the years.  In some cases how the space is used such as on Serenity with Stardust used on some of the formal nights for a supper club and on Symphony how the space was used for what is now again Tastes. On both ships the casino is removed providing a different type of space and no Symphony Palm Court was redesigned as was Starlite making them more useful.

 

But when I talk about space and less guest capacity I am talking about the benefits it provides.  For example, overall dining was designed for a higher capacity. Less guest provides benefits.  The public areas were designed for a higher guest capacity so less guests means they can be less crowded. Maybe that isn't important for some but for others it is.  Even the Fitness Center and those wanting to use the equipment makes it easier to use equipment with less people on board.  

 

In the end when it comes to the financials each person needs to make a decision. I do believe if not for the fact that Genting Hong Kong went belly up and a new owner bought the ships we would not be having this discussion.  I also believe people like to worry about things that don't turn out to be problems. I remember when Crystal went all inclusive being on the ships and also being on CC and seeing so many people worried about how it would change everything for the worse. For example, comments that people would be based out on the floor.  Yes, when it rolled out there were a few issues to deal with such as Sommeliers  keeping up with the demand, but in a few months things smoothed out.  And in the end most people enjoy inclusive including the ease of going to lounges and dining with others and not having the awkwardness of who pays.

 

I believe after Crystal sails for a couple of months we won't be discussing this and a few other subjects that seem to come up regularly.  Maybe there will be other complaints but I believe the topics will change.  

 

By the way the same was true when Crystal restarted in 2021. Complaints about masks and how that would change up things and complained about the itinerary. Do you remember how some said Bahamas in the summer and all the hurricanes even though history shows places like Nassau rarely get a hurricane and other than a few missed ports due to weather which can happen anywhere in the world overall those concerns went away.

 

I know some people on land whether in business or just in their personal lives who are most happy to worry about things or to often comment about what is wrong rather than what is right.

 

So it goes.

 

Keith

[Keith1010]

15 hours ago, K. Sera said:

 

It follows then that if new Crystal flops, it's Abercrombie and Kent's fault.

 

 

... where applicable.

Should A&K cause it yes. Should the Crystal brand be the problem then no.

 

Genting took down Crystal as they did the other Cruise lines under Genting HK.

 

Remember it wasn't even just the cruise lines it was where ships were built.

 

I wish they were an American company so that more would have come out about what they did.  Unfortunately, this is not the case.

 

Genting made several mistakes leveraging a lot of money and when the Pandemic hit they made further mistakes and in the end this did them in. It is analogous to a few USA companies who could hide things until something happened which no longer allowed them to do that.

 

The good news is A&K has a very good track record and also withstood the Pandemic.