Looks like P&O are changing the way dining bookings are done on Arvia

[Interestedcruisefan]

7 hours ago, david63 said:

It might work if it is not based on the original Freedom Dining booking system on Ventura where you could not book before 08:00(?) for that day. This resulted in queues half way round the sip at 05:00 every day. I know that there is an "app" now but not everybody wants to use it.

 

Personally this is what I have wanted from Freedom Dining from the outset - I dislike, with a vengeance, the idea of having a pager/virtual queue saying that my table is ready when I am half way through a pre dinner drink.

If the virtual queue says your table is ready you first click to say you are on your way and then  you have 15 minutes to claim your table

 

Plenty of time

Edited June 16, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

This passenger and his wife don't.  And I suspect we are not alone.

I like both

[No pager thank you]

4 hours ago, Presto2 said:

You've laughed at the end, but I've been wondering if there was a cunning plan behind the freedom dining chaos ! They can't be stupid enough to do this to us all without a good reason. Have to say, we had considered trying IONA or Arvia, but the fact that it is all freedom dining has now put us off as we are considering fixed dining in future.

I think that a good point is made here, and this isn't 1st season syndrome now with Arvia.  If the physical capacity in the MDR is such that each table can be turned around twice during the dining times overall, the best way to maximise the available MDR capacity would to be abolish the Freedom Dining concept and give passengers either a 6.30, or an 8.30pm sitting, reserving choice of table size to the "select" fare guests. 

 

However, this approach comes with it the problem that more than two thirds of the passengers want the MDR experience, especially on first night and for celebration meals, meaning that P&O could not allocate a table to every guest in this way. 

 

The residual options would be sending some guests to The Olive Grove and 6th Street Diner, which would be unacceptable to some "traditionalists;" or stretching the session in to a third seating per table, which is not acceptable to guests or staff; or scrapping The Olive Grove in to a new MDR (not acceptable to the business concept); or not being able to guarantee a free, seated, restaurant style, evening meal at all - that would be a breach of the "full board," product (as currently advertised).

 

Instead then of using one of these options, P&O instead are creating some new "freedom" within the existing physical capacity, but also hoping that when the "freedom" slots get booked up then some guests will respond by diversifying their choices to another restaurant (including paid for), as they will assume that they will wait longer for dinner if they go in to the standard queue. 

 

In essence, they are giving new freedom in some ways, but taking it away at the same time.  This is trying a new tack to the original strategy when Arvia was launched, namely that guests are encouraged to try all of the Dining options on board as part of their holiday experience. 

 

Personally, as I have said, I quite liked The Olive Grove and the 6th Street Diner, so ok with me.  I also approach now with the mindset that a greater guarantee of decent food, decent portion, and decent service is a paid for extra.

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Still not sure what the complaints are about?

 

More tables in more restaurants are now available to pre-book for people who want to pre-book?

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

Now the other thing that I have to question is people who refer to losing the spontaneity of being able to do what they wanted when they wanted in the old days?

 

Weren't the old days 6.30pm or 8.30pm every night that you had  to decide when you booked your cruise holiday - sat on the same table in the same restaurant every night?

 

And if your were lucky one alternative restaurant for a special occasion. That you needed to pre-book asap to have a chance of getting a table

 

Is there any spontaneity whatsoever in the above?

 

What spontaneity exactly has been lost on the bigger ships? Compared to the old days?

 

What spontaneity at all actually existed in the  old days of cruising?

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, Presto2 said:

Ps but when you get a table at 9.45pm abd all the tables around you are fully of empty plates etc . ...  nit a nice feeling

We had a MDR meal after an 8.30pm show arriving at 9.25pm one night. Last table to arrive. It was in one of the smaller MDRS on Iona

 

Perfectly nice service. Quicker than normal and staff able to give you more personal attention as the restaurant was quieter 

 

Had nothing at all we could complain about we were the last group in and second to last group to leave. We still had soup and a starter and we had cheese and biscuits after dessert which we chose to take back to our cabin with us I seem to remember

 

And we chose to dine that late

 

Nobody forced us to do that

 

It just suited our schedule that night

 

Glad we could do it

[Dermotsgirl]

36 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Now the other thing that I have to question is people who refer to losing the spontaneity of being able to do what they wanted when they wanted in the old days?

 

Weren't the old days 6.30pm or 8.30pm every night that you had  to decide when you booked your cruise holiday - sat on the same table in the same restaurant every night?

 

And if your were lucky one alternative restaurant for a special occasion. That you needed to pre-book asap to have a chance of getting a table

 

Is there any spontaneity whatsoever in the above?

 

What spontaneity exactly has been lost on the bigger ships? Compared to the old days?

 

What spontaneity at all actually existed in the  old days of cruising?

It’s you who has added the term ‘old days’, unless you are classing 2019 as the old days 

[Interestedcruisefan]

6 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

It’s you who has added the term ‘old days’, unless you are classing 2019 as the old days 

So people miss the spontaneity of what you could do on P and O in 2019 ?

 

Before Iona and Arvia were even launched?

Edited June 17, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Fionboard]

10 hours ago, Ardennais said:

Understaffing was indeed a problem - I think we were on the same cruise. 
 

So what exactly are the cabin staff doing now if there’s no turndown? 

Working in the restaurants!

[Fionboard]

8 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Now the other thing that I have to question is people who refer to losing the spontaneity of being able to do what they wanted when they wanted in the old days?

 

Weren't the old days 6.30pm or 8.30pm every night that you had  to decide when you booked your cruise holiday - sat on the same table in the same restaurant every night?

 

And if your were lucky one alternative restaurant for a special occasion. That you needed to pre-book asap to have a chance of getting a table

 

Is there any spontaneity whatsoever in the above?

 

What spontaneity exactly has been lost on the bigger ships? Compared to the old days?

 

What spontaneity at all actually existed in the  old days of cruising?

Not having to pre book everything. Deciding where or when to eat or which entertainment to attend depending on how you felt at the time. That is the meaning of "spontaneity"!

[9265359]

8 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Still not sure what the complaints are about?

 

More tables in more restaurants are now available to pre-book for people who want to pre-book?

 

More tables available to pre-book = fewer tables available for people who were not quick / lucky to be able to pre-book.

 

The ability to pre-book will inevitably mean that people will pre-book 'just in case' but tables will be left empty it they don't cancel if they decide to go to one of the other dining places on board the ship. And how do you prevent people doing that unless there is some sort of penalty - £100 fine for not turning up to a booking? All the rest of your pre-bookings are cancelled? You being named and shamed by the Captain?

 

Allowing tables to be pre-booked across the whole dining time creates a lower utilisation - if someone books for 7.30pm then even filling the table at 6pm is likely to be difficult unless you tell people they need to be gone by 7.15 to allow it to be cleared, and then with people sitting down at 7.30 it is unlikely to become available again until 9pm.

 

So pre-booking will be great for those lucky few who manage to grab a spot, and will make things worse for everyone else.

[Fionboard]

10 hours ago, daiB said:

We were stress free on Iona. 😁

Lucky you. Looking at all these posts, many obviously were not. 

[Fionboard]

8 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Still not sure what the complaints are about?

 

More tables in more restaurants are now available to pre-book for people who want to pre-book?

 

 

That is the whole point. Many do not want to pre organise every aspect of their holiday.

[Interestedcruisefan]

7 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Not having to pre book everything. Deciding where or when to eat or which entertainment to attend depending on how you felt at the time. That is the meaning of "spontaneity"!

So on what ship and what year was spontaneity at its best on P and O Fionboard?

[Fionboard]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

So on what ship and what year was spontaneity at its best on P and O Fionboard?

Spontaneity still available on all ships other than Iona and Arvia. Please try to accept that not all of us are in awe of the style of cruising on these two. So we stick to the other ships which suit us better. More room for you.

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

More tables available to pre-book = fewer tables available for people who were not quick / lucky to be able to pre-book.

 

The ability to pre-book will inevitably mean that people will pre-book 'just in case' but tables will be left empty it they don't cancel if they decide to go to one of the other dining places on board the ship. And how do you prevent people doing that unless there is some sort of penalty - £100 fine for not turning up to a booking? All the rest of your pre-bookings are cancelled? You being named and shamed by the Captain?

 

Allowing tables to be pre-booked across the whole dining time creates a lower utilisation - if someone books for 7.30pm then even filling the table at 6pm is likely to be difficult unless you tell people they need to be gone by 7.15 to allow it to be cleared, and then with people sitting down at 7.30 it is unlikely to become available again until 9pm.

 

So pre-booking will be great for those lucky few who manage to grab a spot, and will make things worse for everyone else.

Same as for any modern booking system for any restaurant in the UK - if you don't turn up within 15 mins of your booking time you lose your table? And frees it up for others?

 

And yes every modern restaurant booking  system as well as telling people the rules for arrival also now tells them when the table needs to be vacated by. Vacating a 6pm table after 1hr 45 mins at 7.45pm would be the norm in a standard restaurant nowadays. Cruises could decide what they want that to be and make it work. 

 

The app also already has the ability to prevent you double booking on the same evening

 

 

[Megabear2]

The advertising blurb for Arvia states she has a vast number of dining establishments (17 were originally mentioned if I recall correctly).  The reality of what these are is interesting in as much as if you want a sit down served meal that incurs no extra cost (including Olive Grove and the Diner) they are actually quite limited:

 

Waiter serviced

• 6th Street Diner 
• Chef’s Table – only available on Gala Nights 
• The Olive Grove
• Traditional Main Dining Rooms (Meridian and Zenith)

 

Self service

• The Quays
• Horizon Restaurant (buffet)
• Taste 360

 

On top of this we have various pay venues:

 

Waiter service

• The Beach House
• The Epicurean
• Green & Co, featuring Mizuhana
• Sindhu

 

Waiter service bookable on app only but also combined as drinks establishments

• The Keel & Cow
• The Glass House

 

Special one off event venue

• The Limelight Club

 

Snacks, coffee and ice cream

• Ripples
• Vistas Café Bar

 

I recall someone on these boards took the trouble to count the available seats in the MDR (apologies but I cannot recall who) but I cannot find anywhere the number of tables/seating available in the other venues.  I would be interested to know how many can be seated in each of the paid venues as well as the MDRs, in other words the total overall capacity of every non self service venue onboard. 

 

One of the things I found of interest regarding Olive Grove and the Diner was that the app offered a shared table option in these venues.  However I didn't actually see anyone sharing tables in these two venues and certainly didn't book or accept a shared table myself as the two restaurants did not feel like venues you would share a table with unknown people in. I was always happy to share in the MDR however. If the planner envisaged table sharing in these restaurants it appears to not be happening and will of course impact capacity.

 

I suspect that if you combine every free and pay option sit down restaurant you will still be considerably short on being able to offer every passenger a seat in a serviced restaurant every night - I'm happy to be corrected.  The dining experience in the "select" pay restaurants is aimed at 2 hours - they actually tell you that on being seated in Epicurean, Sindhu and Green & Co. meaning a considerable number of tables in the pay restaurants will only handle on sitting in an evening.  

 

Even with allowing booking in advance through the entire service period it is inevitable that a large number of passengers will still join the "free" restaurant queues in the app or in person.  The only way to ensure those seats already filled become available is to either place a strict time limit on length of dining time to ensure those tables do empty or have extra staff handling table clearance and resetting.from what I saw there just aren't enough people clearing and resetting at present.

 

Of course club dining does impose a time limit, those on 6.30pm seating have to be out in time for the resetting for 8.30pm diners.  "Freedom" dining imposes on such time limit so control of people in and out does not in effect exist, more a try to push them through attitude reliant on the passenger leaving in the hoped for time.

 

My opinion, which is probably worth nothing, is that P&O have banked on their new casual family cruisers being in the Quays and the buffet and it's not what the people are actually choosing.

 

 

 

 

[9265359]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Same as for any modern booking system for any restaurant in the UK - if you don't turn up within 15 mins of your booking time you lose your table? And frees it up for others?

 

And so the table is unused for the 15 minutes before cancellation and up to 15 minutes whilst the new people arrive - so double the unutilised time as before. That is a significant impact.

 

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

And yes every modern restaurant booking  system as well as telling people the rules for arrival also now tells them when the table needs to be vacated by. Vacating a 6pm table after 1hr 45 mins at 7.45pm would be the norm in a standard restaurant nowadays. Cruises could decide what they want that to be and make it work. 

 

You mean just going back to the 6.30 / 8.30 fixed dining.

 

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

The app also already has the ability to prevent you double booking on the same evening

 

So you now have to book if you eat in the buffet or any of the other casual dining places on board - that's new.

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

Spontaneity still available on all ships other than Iona and Arvia. Please try to accept that not all of us are in awe of the style of cruising on these two. So we stick to the other ships which suit us better. More room for you.

I'm trying to show you respect with my comments Fionboard. Please do the same back. 

 

Nobody wants you to be 'in awe" of other ships

 

The ships where people talk about spontaneity?

 

I'm pretty sure they all require people to e-book speciality restaurants as well?

 

I certainly had to on Azura and Britannia?

 

Was nothing spontaneous about being able to eat at Sindhu? In fact I couldn't get a table at all?

 

And the older ships - correct me if I'm wrong. The majority still have 6.30pm or 8.30pm dining slots you have to choose when you book your holiday. And then dine in the same restaurant with the same people at the same time every night?

 

Please correct me if I am wrong on that?

 

So with all due respect I believe that scenario above leads to far far less spontaneity than I can get on the 2 bigger ships? 

 

And is very very same all holiday with the exception of 1 or 2 speciality meals that I would have to pre-book

 

Just like on Arvia and Iona - they  aren't magical speciality restaurants where you can just spontaneously turn up?

 

No different at all in that respect or in terms of spontaneity?

 

Again I say this respectfully.

 

You must see my point though?

[Fionboard]

3 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

The advertising blurb for Arvia states she has a vast number of dining establishments (17 were originally mentioned if I recall correctly).  The reality of what these are is interesting in as much as if you want a sit down served meal that incurs no extra cost (including Olive Grove and the Diner) they are actually quite limited:

 

Waiter serviced

• 6th Street Diner 
• Chef’s Table – only available on Gala Nights 
• The Olive Grove
• Traditional Main Dining Rooms (Meridian and Zenith)

 

Self service

• The Quays
• Horizon Restaurant (buffet)
• Taste 360

 

On top of this we have various pay venues:

 

Waiter service

• The Beach House
• The Epicurean
• Green & Co, featuring Mizuhana
• Sindhu

 

Waiter service bookable on app only but also combined as drinks establishments

• The Keel & Cow
• The Glass House

 

Special one off event venue

• The Limelight Club

 

Snacks, coffee and ice cream

• Ripples
• Vistas Café Bar

 

I recall someone on these boards took the trouble to count the available seats in the MDR (apologies but I cannot recall who) but I cannot find anywhere the number of tables/seating available in the other venues.  I would be interested to know how many can be seated in each of the paid venues as well as the MDRs, in other words the total overall capacity of every non self service venue onboard. 

 

One of the things I found of interest regarding Olive Grove and the Diner was that the app offered a shared table option in these venues.  However I didn't actually see anyone sharing tables in these two venues and certainly didn't book or accept a shared table myself as the two restaurants did not feel like venues you would share a table with unknown people in. I was always happy to share in the MDR however. If the planner envisaged table sharing in these restaurants it appears to not be happening and will of course impact capacity.

 

I suspect that if you combine every free and pay option sit down restaurant you will still be considerably short on being able to offer every passenger a seat in a serviced restaurant every night - I'm happy to be corrected.  The dining experience in the "select" pay restaurants is aimed at 2 hours - they actually tell you that on being seated in Epicurean, Sindhu and Green & Co. meaning a considerable number of tables in the pay restaurants will only handle on sitting in an evening.  

 

Even with allowing booking in advance through the entire service period it is inevitable that a large number of passengers will still join the "free" restaurant queues in the app or in person.  The only way to ensure those seats already filled become available is to either place a strict time limit on length of dining time to ensure those tables do empty or have extra staff handling table clearance and resetting.from what I saw there just aren't enough people clearing and resetting at present.

 

Of course club dining does impose a time limit, those on 6.30pm seating have to be out in time for the resetting for 8.30pm diners.  "Freedom" dining imposes on such time limit so control of people in and out does not in effect exist, more a try to push them through attitude reliant on the passenger leaving in the hoped for time.

 

My opinion, which is probably worth nothing, is that P&O have banked on their new casual family cruisers being in the Quays and the buffet and it's not what the people are actually choosing.

 

 

 

 

Good points. Eventually things may improve on these ships when many traditional cruisers have tried them never to go back again. leaving them to the new cruisers happy to either use the self service venues or book and pay for the special ones.

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Same as for any modern booking system for any restaurant in the UK - if you don't turn up within 15 mins of your booking time you lose your table? And frees it up for others?

 

And yes every modern restaurant booking  system as well as telling people the rules for arrival also now tells them when the table needs to be vacated by. Vacating a 6pm table after 1hr 45 mins at 7.45pm would be the norm in a standard restaurant nowadays. Cruises could decide what they want that to be and make it work. 

 

The app also already has the ability to prevent you double booking on the same evening

 

 

Morning ICF.  You are correct about timing and table turning. That's exactly what club dining offers, in at 6.30pm out by 8.00pm or thereabouts. People were served properly by the correct number of staff in that 1 1/2 hours knowing they would be away for their shows or whatever.  Traditionally the 8.30pm sitting had the lingered or those looking for late nights, but still not many going beyond the 1 1/2 hours.

 

The problem here is twofold: P&O need to ensure they have enough staff to actually provide the 90 minute service and passengers have to be aware they have a time limit. Land based you'll be politely moved on,sea based no one has that responsibility.

[9265359]

2 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

The problem here is twofold: P&O need to ensure they have enough staff to actually provide the 90 minute service 

 

That is not going to happen whilst they are charging £50 pppn for cruises.

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, 9265359 said:

 

That is not going to happen whilst they are charging £50 pppn for cruises.

Agreed.

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

The advertising blurb for Arvia states she has a vast number of dining establishments (17 were originally mentioned if I recall correctly).  The reality of what these are is interesting in as much as if you want a sit down served meal that incurs no extra cost (including Olive Grove and the Diner) they are actually quite limited:

 

Waiter serviced

• 6th Street Diner 
• Chef’s Table – only available on Gala Nights 
• The Olive Grove
• Traditional Main Dining Rooms (Meridian and Zenith)

 

Self service

• The Quays
• Horizon Restaurant (buffet)
• Taste 360

 

On top of this we have various pay venues:

 

Waiter service

• The Beach House
• The Epicurean
• Green & Co, featuring Mizuhana
• Sindhu

 

Waiter service bookable on app only but also combined as drinks establishments

• The Keel & Cow
• The Glass House

 

Special one off event venue

• The Limelight Club

 

Snacks, coffee and ice cream

• Ripples
• Vistas Café Bar

 

I recall someone on these boards took the trouble to count the available seats in the MDR (apologies but I cannot recall who) but I cannot find anywhere the number of tables/seating available in the other venues.  I would be interested to know how many can be seated in each of the paid venues as well as the MDRs, in other words the total overall capacity of every non self service venue onboard. 

 

One of the things I found of interest regarding Olive Grove and the Diner was that the app offered a shared table option in these venues.  However I didn't actually see anyone sharing tables in these two venues and certainly didn't book or accept a shared table myself as the two restaurants did not feel like venues you would share a table with unknown people in. I was always happy to share in the MDR however. If the planner envisaged table sharing in these restaurants it appears to not be happening and will of course impact capacity.

 

I suspect that if you combine every free and pay option sit down restaurant you will still be considerably short on being able to offer every passenger a seat in a serviced restaurant every night - I'm happy to be corrected.  The dining experience in the "select" pay restaurants is aimed at 2 hours - they actually tell you that on being seated in Epicurean, Sindhu and Green & Co. meaning a considerable number of tables in the pay restaurants will only handle on sitting in an evening.  

 

Even with allowing booking in advance through the entire service period it is inevitable that a large number of passengers will still join the "free" restaurant queues in the app or in person.  The only way to ensure those seats already filled become available is to either place a strict time limit on length of dining time to ensure those tables do empty or have extra staff handling table clearance and resetting.from what I saw there just aren't enough people clearing and resetting at present.

 

Of course club dining does impose a time limit, those on 6.30pm seating have to be out in time for the resetting for 8.30pm diners.  "Freedom" dining imposes on such time limit so control of people in and out does not in effect exist, more a try to push them through attitude reliant on the passenger leaving in the hoped for time.

 

My opinion, which is probably worth nothing, is that P&O have banked on their new casual family cruisers being in the Quays and the buffet and it's not what the people are actually choosing.

 

 

 

 

Good informative post MB

 

My observation is that when given the choice most people (not all) would only choose to share if it means getting a table sooner when they don't want to wait. We would share in that situation in some instances. I made that observation in my live thread on Iona where larger tables now are much less common to see. And mainly larger family groups as well.

 

We've not had to do that yet even if it worked as we've just found if we join the queues for where we want to eat at the right times we don't have to wait as we plan it to co-incide when we finish what we were doing before

 

So basically if people understand how to use the app. By and large they won't face problems 

 

To your last point whats wrong with more tables being able to be Pre-booked for those that want to pre-book them at set times in more restaurants. 

 

Isn't that exactly what some people want and complain they can't do at the moment?

 

Ie the people who are used to set dining and in the past never complained at all about 6.30pm or 8.30pm dining slots every night. Can't this work for them?

 

For people like me and you who may want different things on different nights it's a bonus as well IMO

 

I don't see this as a step backwards but as a step forwards myself

 

The same people who say they don't like to pre-book and prefer spontaniety seem to me to be mostly the ones who in the past only had one choice anyway 6.30pm or 8.30pm?

 

Maybe that old fashioned  option could even be added to the app. One click gets you set dining in MDR every night at same time?

 

Then to book a speciality that booking automatically gets amended that night and you don't even have to  cancel

 

Anyway like I say

 

It seems a positive to me. Not a negative. 

[Fionboard]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I'm trying to show you respect with my comments Fionboard. Please do the same back. 

 

Nobody wants you to be 'in awe" of other ships

 

The ships where people talk about spontaneity?

 

I'm pretty sure they all require people to e-book speciality restaurants as well?

 

I certainly had to on Azura and Britannia?

 

Was nothing spontaneous about being able to eat at Sindhu? In fact I couldn't get a table at all?

 

And the older ships - correct me if I'm wrong. The majority still have 6.30pm or 8.30pm dining slots you have to choose when you book your holiday. And then dine in the same restaurant with the same people at the same time every night?

 

Please correct me if I am wrong on that?

 

So with all due respect I believe that scenario above leads to far far less spontaneity than I can get on the 2 bigger ships? 

 

And is very very same all holiday with the exception of 1 or 2 speciality meals that I would have to pre-book

 

Just like on Arvia and Iona - they  aren't magical speciality restaurants where you can just spontaneously turn up?

 

No different at all in that respect or in terms of spontaneity?

 

Again I say this respectfully.

 

You must see my point though?

Not being disrespectful at all. I have done 74 cruises with 5 different lines but most with P&O. As I have said before, I travel alone and have had fixed (late) dining on all cruises, except Iona of course. I use the MDR for all meals, never the self service buffet. I do not want to dine alone, so obviously do not use the speciality venues either. Try to understand that successful, sociable cruising solo is far more enjoyable on the smaller ships which you, as a couple and younger, would probably dislike.