Looks like P&O are changing the way dining bookings are done on Arvia

[solentsam]

just had an email to today for our cruise in 5 weeks time

here is a quote from a bit of it

so looks like that they are now changing things sightly for dinning bookings, in that you can book throughout the evening

 

"For your holiday on Arvia, we’re offering advance dinner bookings for more dining venues, including Freedom restaurants. This gives you more peace of mind if you want to fit mealtimes around the entertainment you’ve booked, or simply ensure you experience the restaurants that whet your appetite the most. Reservation times are available throughout the evening on a first-come, first-served basis. And if you’re keen to dine socially, there’s a great option to share a table with other guests. Choosing to share a table may increase the booking time slots available to you."

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2023 by solentsam

[CarlaMarie]

I'm not sure how this will solve any of the issues, or how it vastly differs from what you can do currently.

 

Furthermore, the whole concept of "freedom" dining has changed alot in comparison to when they first launched it. 

[solentsam]

I thought you could only book time slots up to 6:30 after then you had to join the virtual queue, so that is why I thought it was a shift on policy

[Interestedcruisefan]

Theres a lot of criticism on here of how freedom dining works on Arvia and Iona?

 

Has anyone who criticises ever really considered how hard it  is to cater for 5.300 to 6,500 guests each evening who all want different things at different times to each other

 

I think they do a great job.

 

And with my parents being ex restaurant owners and my daughter being a chef in Michelin level restaurants

 

Trust me every restaurant has its good night's and bad nights. Whatever your favorite restaurant is anywhere in the world will have problems occasionally each week. Catering for a tiny fraction of the numbers these ships cater for

 

Arvia and Iona get far far more right with their dining than wrong IMO

 

And give us far far more options and choices than any ships they have ever offered before

 

Good on them for what they are trying to offer their guests and getting right far more often than wrong

 

Along with all the hygiene issues they have to get right day in day out as well

 

 

[terrierjohn]

18 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

I'm not sure how this will solve any of the issues, or how it vastly differs from what you can do currently.

 

Furthermore, the whole concept of "freedom" dining has changed alot in comparison to when they first launched it. 

I agree this is now the way that both P&O and Princess are operating, and it is not the Freedom or Anytime dining that we have enjoyed for the last 20 years or so. I have just had to book all 14 days of our next Princess cruise dinners, putting in guesses for what time and what restaurant we will be using.

I realise that the new ships with much higher passenger capacity, will need more careful management,  but I suspect that the MDR capacity per head is far lower on the big ships, than on the likes of Arcadia and Aurora, and that is the main reason for the problems being reported. Unfortunately I imagine that all this proposal will do, is leave many passengers unable to find a free slot at any time, and certainly not one they will be happy with.

Edited June 16, 2023 by terrierjohn

[Interestedcruisefan]

17 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

I'm not sure how this will solve any of the issues, or how it vastly differs from what you can do currently.

 

Furthermore, the whole concept of "freedom" dining has changed alot in comparison to when they first launched it. 

Way more choices and options of freedom dining on Arvia than any P and Other cruise ship they've had before

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree this is now the way that both P&O and Princess are operating, and it is not the Freedom or Anytime dining that we have enjoyed for the last 20 years or so. I have just had to book all 14 days of our next Princess cruise dinners, putting in guesses for what time and what restaurant we will be using.

I realise that the new ships with much higher passenger capacity, will need more careful management,  but I suspect that the MDR capacity per head is far lower on the big ships than on these new big ones, and that is the main reason for the problems being reported. Unfortunately I imagine that all this proposal will do, is leave many passengers unable to find a free slot at any time, and certainly not one they will be happy with.

Do you not class freedom dining as NOT having to eat in the same MDR at the same time every night with the same people John?

 

The choices on these ships and the ability to make these choices minutes before you dine must be more freedom than ever before on P and O?

[terrierjohn]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Do you not class freedom dining as NOT having to eat in the same MDR at the same time every night with the same people John?

 

The choices on these ships and the ability to make these choices minutes before you dine must be more freedom than ever before on P and O?

ICF you clearly have not considered the implications of this new proposal. If, as I suspect, there is insufficient MDR capacity on the new ships, then the restaurants will be fully booked well before everyone has had a chance to make a reservation. Couple that with the fact that many passengers cannot use the booking app, and that many bookings will not be honoured, and the result will be many hundreds of disgruntled passengers every night.

[CarlaMarie]

6 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Way more choices and options of freedom dining on Arvia than any P and Other cruise ship they've had before

 

 

 

I don't think you have understood what I meant. When "freedom" dining was introduced, it was to offer an alternative to club dining of set times at 6:30pm or 8:30pm. You didn't have to book all the time, but just turn up. 

 

This isn't about the number of dining venues or choices that one has. This is about having to now book when before you didn't have to (unless you used speciality). If you are having to book during the day to secure a table at a time you think you would like or will work, that actually takes away the freedom passengers used to have. 

 

 

[CarlaMarie]

9 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Do you not class freedom dining as NOT having to eat in the same MDR at the same time every night with the same people John?

 

The choices on these ships and the ability to make these choices minutes before you dine must be more freedom than ever before on P and O?

 

I don't want this thread to derail like others have, this isn't about the pros of Arvia and all she has to offer.

 

We are simply discussing this new change to how you can book. We all know Arvia has less traditional MDRs than Iona (very apparent on certain cruises), P&O are obviously thinking this will help but I am not sure how. 

[solentsam]

3 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

his isn't about the number of dining venues or choices that one has. This is about having to now book when before you didn't have to (unless you used speciality). If you are having to book during the day to secure a table at a time you think you would like or will work, that actually takes away the freedom passengers used to have

So OK lets take away the booking system. Then you turn up along with another say 50 pax who had the same idea as you for the time you wished to eat, you will now have to wait outside for how long?? Is that better

[cruising.mark.uk]

I’m with ICF here.  It seems to me – a little like the other thread on arrival times – that P&O with Arvia and Iona and Princess with its newer and future ships are trying to cater for the new demographic and a new audience who are not wedded to the traditional way of cruising where everyone ate in the Main Dining room.  It’s clear that Arvia certainly and Iona to a lesser extent cannot seat ever passenger for dinner in their MDRs.  But, that’s because they weren’t designed to.  In the good old days, there were only one or two speciality restaurants, which passengers used as the exception rather than the rule, perhaps for a special occasion once or twice in a fortnight.  Now there are very many no-cost and low-cost options, as well as up market higher cost restaurants like Epicurean and Sindhu.  So, it’s more than possible to eat very well every night for a fortnight without going near the MDR (and that’s what we did on Arvia in Apr). (Virgin have gone to the extreme with this model, with no MDRs, and other lines such as NCL also have little MDR capacity).   

 

Up till now, opportunities to book the non-MDR venues in advance have been very limited.  So, if P&O are saying that you can now book all the restaurants before cruising on Arvia, that is a significant change.  While the ‘traditionalists’ will be able to book the MDRs, the more adventurous cuisers will be able to book the other restaurants in advance and that may actually work to the advantage of both groups.  It should give more certainty to the traditionalists, because it will allow others to plan their meals in advance by locking in bookings at non-MDR restaurants, something which they were not previously able to do other than for Epicurean and Sindhu.   That should reduce the pressure on MDRs and increase use of the other options, thus helping to spread the pax load across restaurants in the way, I think, was originally intended for these ships.

[david63]

It might work if it is not based on the original Freedom Dining booking system on Ventura where you could not book before 08:00(?) for that day. This resulted in queues half way round the sip at 05:00 every day. I know that there is an "app" now but not everybody wants to use it.

 

Personally this is what I have wanted from Freedom Dining from the outset - I dislike, with a vengeance, the idea of having a pager/virtual queue saying that my table is ready when I am half way through a pre dinner drink.

[solentsam]

They are also uping the anti in the olive grove for Celebration Nights

 

"The Olive Grove

Pull up a chair and take your pick from the region’s iconic favourites, from Greek mezze to Moroccan lamb tagine.

Tuck into iconic Mediterranean dishes and, on Celebration Nights, an exclusive menu from Local Food Hero José Pizarro."

[Ardennais]

27 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I’m with ICF here.  It seems to me – a little like the other thread on arrival times – that P&O with Arvia and Iona and Princess with its newer and future ships are trying to cater for the new demographic and a new audience who are not wedded to the traditional way of cruising where everyone ate in the Main Dining room.  It’s clear that Arvia certainly and Iona to a lesser extent cannot seat ever passenger for dinner in their MDRs.  But, that’s because they weren’t designed to.  In the good old days, there were only one or two speciality restaurants, which passengers used as the exception rather than the rule, perhaps for a special occasion once or twice in a fortnight.  Now there are very many no-cost and low-cost options, as well as up market higher cost restaurants like Epicurean and Sindhu.  So, it’s more than possible to eat very well every night for a fortnight without going near the MDR (and that’s what we did on Arvia in Apr). (Virgin have gone to the extreme with this model, with no MDRs, and other lines such as NCL also have little MDR capacity).   

 

Up till now, opportunities to book the non-MDR venues in advance have been very limited.  So, if P&O are saying that you can now book all the restaurants before cruising on Arvia, that is a significant change.  While the ‘traditionalists’ will be able to book the MDRs, the more adventurous cuisers will be able to book the other restaurants in advance and that may actually work to the advantage of both groups.  It should give more certainty to the traditionalists, because it will allow others to plan their meals in advance by locking in bookings at non-MDR restaurants, something which they were not previously able to do other than for Epicurean and Sindhu.   That should reduce the pressure on MDRs and increase use of the other options, thus helping to spread the pax load across restaurants in the way, I think, was originally intended for these ships.

Just to say that it’s not just ‘traditionalists’ who use the MDR. When we cruised with 3 teenagers (on a few 19 nighters), our budget wouldn’t allow us to use speciality dining! 

[Dermotsgirl]

This seems like a curate's egg thing to me.

 

I like the idea of being able to pre-book a table, so that I can just roll up at the time of my booking and have my table waiting. I note that this includes both speciality restaurants and the MDR's. It would make it quite easy to map out the evening, with less likelihood of the pre-dinner drink going on for 90 minutes or having to miss dessert to get to the show.

 

I'm happy with the concept of booking the really special venues, like Epicurean, Sindhu and the Limelight Club before the cruise, but in the interests of spontaneity, I'd prefer if bookings for the MDR's and the likes of Olive Grove, Glasshouse and Keel & Cow etc, could be done at shorter notice AND  with the confidence that you had a good chance of getting what you wanted.

 

However, not sure if that's possible, and have a suspicion that this will add another level of angst, as everyone will 'pile in' as soon as the bookings open, for fear that they won't get anything.

 

Can't help wondering if, in their attempts to improve things, they'll end up opening a whole new can of worms 

[cruising.mark.uk]

3 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

Just to say that it’s not just ‘traditionalists’ who use the MDR. When we cruised with 3 teenagers (on a few 19 nighters), our budget wouldn’t allow us to use speciality dining! 

Yes, that will doubtless be an issue for many.  But Olive Grove and 6th St Diner are no cost.

[CarlaMarie]

1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

This seems like a curate's egg thing to me.

 

I like the idea of being able to pre-book a table, so that I can just roll up at the time of my booking and have my table waiting. I note that this includes both speciality restaurants and the MDR's. It would make it quite easy to map out the evening, with less likelihood of the pre-dinner drink going on for 90 minutes or having to miss dessert to get to the show.

 

I'm happy with the concept of booking the really special venues, like Epicurean, Sindhu and the Limelight Club before the cruise, but in the interests of spontaneity, I'd prefer if bookings for the MDR's and the likes of Olive Grove, Glasshouse and Keel & Cow etc, could be done at shorter notice AND  with the confidence that you had a good chance of getting what you wanted.

 

However, not sure if that's possible, and have a suspicion that this will add another level of angst, as everyone will 'pile in' as soon as the bookings open, for fear that they won't get anything.

 

Can't help wondering if, in their attempts to improve things, they'll end up opening a whole new can of worms 

 

I also wonder if passengers will then book more than one venue for each night. We know this already happens, but this could potentially be on a greater scale. 

[Dermotsgirl]

9 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

Just to say that it’s not just ‘traditionalists’ who use the MDR. When we cruised with 3 teenagers (on a few 19 nighters), our budget wouldn’t allow us to use speciality dining! 

It just shows that people don't fit into neat categories.

 

I suppose that, with a 20+ year cruising history and travelling without children, I would be shoe horned into the traditionalist category. However, we originally booked Iona for March 2021 with the sole purpose of trying all the speciality restaurants and not bothering with the MDR. That cruise didn't happen, so it was moved to March 2023. But we cancelled it last summer, as I felt at that time that the app was flakey and the experience onboard seemed sometimes a bit too much like hard work.

 

I remain curious about both Iona and Arvia, and would like to think that I will sail on at least one of them one day. But there are still enough reports of queueing issues and struggles to eat in various restaurants, to make me think that I won't bother just yet

[molecrochip]

Originally, you could not book any MDR on Arvia, then a certain number of tables was released for booking in advance, covering opening up to 6:45pm.

 

Now, a section of MDR will be available to book, in advance, all night.
 

It’s not the whole MDR, it’s not compulsory. It will still be possible to join a queue/grab a  buzzer if you want.

 

Currently if someone makes a reservation, when they get called there is a period of 15 minutes to arrive during which time the table is sits empty. If the reservation doesn’t arrive then a further reservation is called during which time the table sits empty again for a further 15 minutes. The hope here is that by having more people choosing what time during the evening they wish to eat you will avoid tables sitting empty for long periods of time.

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 hours ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

I don't think you have understood what I meant. When "freedom" dining was introduced, it was to offer an alternative to club dining of set times at 6:30pm or 8:30pm. You didn't have to book all the time, but just turn up. 

 

This isn't about the number of dining venues or choices that one has. This is about having to now book when before you didn't have to (unless you used speciality). If you are having to book during the day to secure a table at a time you think you would like or will work, that actually takes away the freedom passengers used to have. 

 

 

I've cruised freedom dining like you described above

 

It basically allowed a certain amount of people to not have to share a table nor stick to a  certain time

 

I had that choice every night on Arvia and Iona. No problem at all

 

But lots more choice as well

 

All extremely flexible

 

Basically they've taken something and provided even more choice haven't they

 

What have I missed?

[majortom10]

The only problem I can see is happening what happened to us recently on QM2. We had booked 'open dining' and on embarkation day as soon as we got onboard we booked a time on their website page for every night in MDR. On one evening we arrived at restaurant at 7-30 pm the time we had booked to be told restaurant was full come back in 30 minutes. When I said we had a table booked and asked what was point of booking in advance was given a vacant look and still told to come back in 30 minutes.

 

 

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

I don't want this thread to derail like others have, this isn't about the pros of Arvia and all she has to offer.

 

We are simply discussing this new change to how you can book. We all know Arvia has less traditional MDRs than Iona (very apparent on certain cruises), P&O are obviously thinking this will help but I am not sure how. 

As I understand it Arvia has MDR capacity for about 1/3 of the passengers per sitting so if there is only time for 2 sittings 1/3 of the passengers are expected to eat elsewhere. The problem is they DON'T want to eat elsewhere they want a MDR experience. If you want a traditional dining ship the size of Arvia you would need the space equivalent to the deck 8 cabins dedicated to another MDR. That would not generate enough profit for Carnival.

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

Yes, that will doubtless be an issue for many.  But Olive Grove and 6th St Diner are no cost.

Olive Grove and 6th Street diner are not main dining rooms whatever P&O say. Passengers want the no cost main dining room menus.

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 minute ago, davecttr said:

Olive Grove and 6th Street diner are not main dining rooms whatever P&O say. Passengers want the no cost main dining room menus.

This passenger and his wife don't.  And I suspect we are not alone.