Looks like P&O are changing the way dining bookings are done on Arvia

[Happy afloat]

10 hours ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Now the other thing that I have to question is people who refer to losing the spontaneity of being able to do what they wanted when they wanted in the old days?

 

Weren't the old days 6.30pm or 8.30pm every night that you had  to decide when you booked your cruise holiday - sat on the same table in the same restaurant every night?

 

And if your were lucky one alternative restaurant for a special occasion. That you needed to pre-book asap to have a chance of getting a table

 

Is there any spontaneity whatsoever in the above?

 

What spontaneity exactly has been lost on the bigger ships? Compared to the old days?

 

What spontaneity at all actually existed in the  old days of cruising?

Hi, don't think you've got this quite right. There were two sittings for saver fares, 6.30 and 8.30 (or thereabouts) and freedom dining for all others. Meaning you could turn up to the mdr at any time and get a table, occasionally being offered a pager in exceptionally busy periods(only happened once to us in about 8 cruise pre-covid). Not the same restaurant nightly, nor the same table, or with the same people. That's the spontaneity that's been lost.

Alternative restaurants did have to be booked, but availability was plentiful. In fact, they would often patrol the ship offering free bottles of wine if you booked during quieter periods.

We are still working, so live our life by the clock. Don't really want to do it on holiday. 

[Fionboard]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I 100 per cent totally get that, respect that and will likely want something like that myself if I'm single in the future. Or vice versa my wife will.

 

But youve pretty much exactly confirmed my observation. 

 

What you have described is not spontaneous at all. It's the total opposite.

 

It's set dining without speciality dining at a set time each night?

 

No choice, no decision, no spontaneity at all.

 

And that's exactly what you prefer and want. Which I totally understand.

 

But that's why I totally don't understand you people telling me they don't like the bigger ships as you have to pre-book everything.

 

You effectively pre-book everything the day you book your  holiday.  You remove any choices to be made. 

No, you pre book your dining only. Everything else is spontaneous and you can choose to eat elsewhere from the MDR whenever you like. If I want to go to entertainment at 8.30 I just tell my waiters I will not be at the table that night and eat elsewhere. Free to do what I feel like at the time.

[happy v]

I am not going to get involved in the 'debate'. But I would love to only have the table for only 60-90 mins. I just want to eat and go.

[Fionboard]

9 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

The old days were not all fixed dining, 2 out of the 3 MDRs offered freedom dining with no pre booking permitted, you just turned up when you wanted and were seated, rarely were there queues. That was true spontaneity.

Absolutely. Still more or less is the case.

[Interestedcruisefan]

52 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

Interesting point Megabear about casual family cruisers also choosing dining venues that P&O hadn't anticipated.

 

I think in general she is attracting a higher proportion of passengers each cruise who she wasn't actually built for. Especially during term time and with bargain fares on offer. Many also do not have a disposable income, are on a budget and cannot afford speciality on multiple nights.

 

I'm not sure that's the  issue tbh

 

Speciality dining on cruises is not expensive compared to the real world prices we now have to pay in restaurants

 

And on Iona and Arvia the most expensive speciality restaurants were full every night. It doesn't even matter if its people dining there multiple times. It still means they aren't dining elsewhere. So freeing up space elsewhere 

 

These restaurants aren't sitting empty

 

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

8 minutes ago, Fionboard said:

No, you pre book your dining only. Everything else is spontaneous and you can choose to eat elsewhere from the MDR whenever you like. If I want to go to entertainment at 8.30 I just tell my waiters I will not be at the table that night and eat elsewhere. Free to do what I feel like at the time.

But the other places you would want to eat you would need to pre-book? To get a table? 

 

Wouldn't you?

 

Same as on the big ships?

 

Unless you mean buffet. Which again is the same on the big ships?

 

Speciality on the small ships is not something you can just choose to do at the time?

 

I don't see any difference between the big and small ships in respect of speciality dining? You have to pre-book on both? Or not get a table.  You can't spontaneously decide to do that? 

Edited June 17, 2023 by Interestedcruisefan

[Selbourne]

5 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Selbourne I cannot possibly envisage how with less certainty of where or when 5,300 to 6500 people want to dine that the meal times could become smoother. If someone offered me the job of managing that I would turn the job down and tell them they must be crackers! Lol

 

I'm a born organiser. Logistics and organising are jobs I've done all my life. That scenario would terrify me. 

 

I've used that freedom dining you described on some of our early cruises. We always chose it when given the choice compared to fixed dining. I honestly believe nowadays most people on cruises would choose that as well. Hence why a selling point of Iona when launched was all freedom dining 

 

I feel what I get now on Arvia and Iona is the same and far far better as what you describe. Having experienced both myself.  Now I not only get to choose when I want to dine. I get to choose where as well. 

 

If I want to secure smaller speciality restaurant dining I need to book in advance. Exactly the same as in those days on Azura and Britannia?

 

If I'm on a smaller ship than them I've got so few choices anyway I've kind of lost spontaneity before it even started? Let's be honest? And still need to pre-book speciality on Acadia etc or not have it at all.

 

I can eat early, middle, late in a huge variety of places. 

 

If I pre-book I can do it with certainty and plan other stuff before or after 

 

If I want to fly by the seat of my pants I can do that as well. Albeit if I choose to do that I need to expect I won't always get what I want when I want it. 

 

But what I have now is a huge amount of choice Is never had before on a cruise ship. I love that

 

I totally accept the  choice and needing to be pre-organised actually puts people off the bigger ships

 

So surely they just keep booking smaller ships where theres less to think about doing and where theres structures you can just jump right into

 

What I can't accept  is people saying that provides more spontaneity though. 

 

I can go on Arvia and Iona and try and walk in MDRS whenever I want still?

 

I just choose not to do that. I like a bit more control of my nights

Although we might be described as ‘traditional cruisers’ we very much like all the additional dining choices that the bigger ships offer, so I’m with you on that. 
 

Just to clarify the point about spontaneity though when it comes to Freedom Dining. Having used it since its inception, we love the ability to dine at different times. Sometimes we want to be on our balcony for a few hours after leaving a port to see all the scenery. On sea days obviously not. Sometimes we want a drink (or two) before dinner. Sometimes not. When the mood (or hunger) takes us, we just wander down to the MDR and 95% of the time have been seated immediately, even at peak times. That’s spontaneity. 
 

Some of that has gone now (or so it seems) on some of the ships. Having read countless reviews, it seems that you either have to dine very early (like you do - doesn’t suit us, it’s still late afternoon 😉), very late or, if you wish to dine at peak times (especially if you want a table for 2) you need a military style strategy plan, which may involve booking multiple MDRs to see which is moving quickest and also trying a walk up approach whilst still in the virtual queue, as that seems to result in being seated quicker 🤔. No problem, I have all of this in my copious notes for each cruise, along with tips on which MDRs move quickest etc. Am I prepared? Yes. Is it the spontaneity that we enjoyed previously? Is it hell 😂 

 

I can absolutely understand why the new setup works well for you. You are an extreme planner, mostly use extra cost restaurants, or dine at off peak times in the MDR. That’s not how many of us cruise though.

 

I would also like to make one final point about something that crops up regularly and that is that the new systems for restaurants and theatres are no different to what you would experience ashore. With all due respect, that is to completely miss the point about what the USP of cruising is (or was). The cruise experience is very much sold as being different to that and, as a result, less hassle. Just turn up when you want. No need to stress over booking. It allows you to enjoy these experiences in a way that you can’t at home. That is spontaneity!

[Interestedcruisefan]

10 minutes ago, Happy afloat said:

Hi, don't think you've got this quite right. There were two sittings for saver fares, 6.30 and 8.30 (or thereabouts) and freedom dining for all others. Meaning you could turn up to the mdr at any time and get a table, occasionally being offered a pager in exceptionally busy periods(only happened once to us in about 8 cruise pre-covid). Not the same restaurant nightly, nor the same table, or with the same people. That's the spontaneity that's been lost.

Alternative restaurants did have to be booked, but availability was plentiful. In fact, they would often patrol the ship offering free bottles of wine if you booked during quieter periods.

We are still working, so live our life by the clock. Don't really want to do it on holiday. 

Freedom dining agreed you could turn up at any MDR on the night at any time and hope to walk in or get asked to wait. I've done that in the past.

 

That's exactly what I can still do on Arvia or Iona though? It's not been taken away from me?

 

But with the choice of walking to do it or joining a virtual queue?

 

I choose to use the virtual queue and make my choices whilst sat in a bar or theatre or the cabin? 

 

I don't have to though. I could walk to the restaurants if I wanted to.

[No pager thank you]

14 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Do we actually have examples of anyone unable to have non paid MDR dining on board Arvia or Iona though? 

 

Or are we just talking about it not happening at the perfect time for them. Or having to wait in either a virtual queue or if they prefer a physical queue to have it happen?

 

 

I can say, from personal experience on Arvia, that some guests in a "non paid for" MDR queue, were being seated considerably after the restaurant was supposed to close at 9.30pm.  These people had joined the queue more than an hour earlier, sometimes more.  Some do give up.

 

So yes, they were fed, but still eating an evening meal at gone 10pm at night, when you don't want (or choose to), and sonetimes even where, is not really a choice.  There is a question about if this is reasonable, and if it is comparable, to a land-based restaurant, or similar offerings on other cruise lines.

 

This is one of the reasons why some guests are going earlier, and earlier; not because they want to, or necessarily because they prefer the spontaneity of being able to do so, but simply because they want a traditional, sit down, three course meal (like they could have at any land-based restaurant, on a table reserved for them), without it disrupting their other plans for the evening, whatever they may be.  Often, the evening entertainment on board, particularly if not attending the theatre, is limited to certain times I.e., things such the pianist in the Crows Nest, the act in the Atrium, something like a Race Night or an Evening Quiz, or meeting up with friends.  If you want to do one of these things, then many will build their evening around it.  If you can't get fed at a reasonable, plannable, time so you can participate, then your choice and broader enjoyment of your holiday becomes diminished.

 

For example, if you booked a table at a restaurant at home, let's say for 7pm, and then had a film at a nearby cinema starting at 9pm, which you may have prepaid for, you would think that was reasonable.  You would expect your table to be ready at 7, or shortly before, or at least very shortly afterwards, and then be able to get to the cinema on time.  You wouldn't expect to miss part of the film because, on arrival, you were presented with a pager, saying return in 45 minutes to an hour.  You also wouldn't expect, if you were hungry, to be limited to just a main course, or not have timely service from the bar, because you were rushing.

 

This type of expectation is one not associated with paying a lot of money for your meal, it's a basic expectation.

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

15 minutes ago, Happy afloat said:

 Meaning you could turn up to the mdr at any time and get a table, occasionally being offered a pager in exceptionally busy periods(only happened once to us in about 8 cruise pre-covid). Not the same restaurant nightly, nor the same table, or with the same people. That's the spontaneity that's been lost.

It hasn't been lost at all. You can still do this?

 

Just that you do lots lots more in different places at different times as well?

 

 

[terrierjohn]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I'm not sure that's the  issue tbh

 

Speciality dining on cruises is not expensive compared to the real world prices we now have to pay in restaurants

 

And on Iona and Arvia the most expensive speciality restaurants were full every night. It doesn't even matter if its people dining there multiple times. It still means they aren't dining elsewhere. So freeing up space elsewhere 

 

These restaurants aren't sitting empty

 

 

Clearly I am a philistine when it come to "gourmet" dining, especially on cruises. I have never had what I would describe as excellent cuisine on P&O, certainly nowhere near the quality of Murano on Celebrity Eclipse, or the style and ambience of Tuscan grill, and the service is rarely exceptional, and usually quite lengthy. 

However we have enjoyed dozens of MDR meals, with wonderful table companions, all packaged in a neat and tidy 90 minutes, and this to us is one of joys o cruising.

[Interestedcruisefan]

2 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I can say, from personal experience on Arvia, that some guests in a "non paid for" MDR queue, were being seated considerably after the restaurant was supposed to close at 9.30pm.  These people had joined the queue more than an hour earlier, sometimes more.  Some do give up.

 

So yes, they were fed, but still eating an evening meal at gone 10pm at night, when you don't want (or choose to), and sonetimes even where, is not really a choice.  There is a question about if this is reasonable, and if it is comparable, to a land-based restaurant, or similar offerings on other cruise lines.

 

When exactly did this happen?

 

 

[Fionboard]

3 minutes ago, No pager thank you said:

I can say, from personal experience on Arvia, that some guests in a "non paid for" MDR queue, were being seated considerably after the restaurant was supposed to close at 9.30pm.  These people had joined the queue more than an hour earlier, sometimes more.  Some do give up.

 

So yes, they were fed, but still eating an evening meal at gone 10pm at night, when you don't want (or choose to), and sonetimes even where, is not really a choice.  There is a question about if this is reasonable, and if it is comparable, to a land-based restaurant, or similar offerings on other cruise lines.

 

This is one of the reasons why some guests are going earlier, and earlier; not because they want to, or necessarily because they prefer the spontaneity of being able to do so, but simply because they want a traditional, sit down, three course meal (like they could have at any land-based restaurant, on a table reserved for them), without it disrupting their other plans for the evening, whatever they may be.  Often, the evening entertainment on board, particularly if not attending the theatre, is limited to certain times I.e., things such the pianist in the Crows Nest, the act in the Atrium, something like a Race Night or an Evening Quiz, or meeting up with friends.  If you want to do one of these things, then many will build their evening around it.  If you can't get fed at a reasonable, plannable, time so you can participate, then your choice and broader enjoyment of your holiday becomes diminished.

 

For example, if you booked a table at a restaurant at home, let's say for 7pm, and then had a film at a nearby cinema starting at 9pm, which you may have prepaid for, you would think that was reasonable.  You would expect your table to be ready at 7, or shortly before, or at least very shortly afterwards, and then be able to get to the cinema on time.  You wouldn't expect to miss part of the film because, on arrival, you were presented with a pager, saying return in 45 minutes to an hour.  You also wouldn't expect, if you were hungry, to be limited to just a main course, or not have timely service from the bar, because you were rushing.

 

This type of expectation is one not associated with paying a lot of money for your meal, it's a basic expectation.

 

Well put!

[No pager thank you]

53 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

If you are going down that route then perhaps the alternative is charging people to book - £15 per person if you want to book a slot and if you want to eat for free then stand in the queue.

 

 

Who is eating at 5.30pm in the afternoon? That is why there is a shortage of tables because everyone wants to eat at 7.30 to 8.00pm

 

 

And meanwhile your pre-booked MDR table goes unused because P&O don't know you are eating elsewhere.

 

I can see P&O attempting to charge to "jump the queue" at some point, similar principle to what you see in some theme parks, where one buys a wristband, or a pass, to jump the queue.  Simple, cost free, way of making extra money. 

 

Maybe that someone deletes these posts, before the bean counters get ideas!!🙂

 

[cruising.mark.uk]

19 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Several people have stated they were unable to get seated in the MDR, and had to use the buffet, quays or pay extra in one of the speciality dining options.

'Several people' out of 10000 pax on these two ships per fortnight!  It seems to me that this is another thread looking very hard to find a problem where, in reality, there either isn't a problem at all or - if there is - it only affects a tiny minority of passengers.  And it's full of wild speculation and conjecture and rampant extrapolation of the experience of a handful of passengers to try to apply it to thousands.  

 

Megabear asks a good question about the overall capacity of restaurants on Iona.  I'd hazard a guess that the ship is designed and resourced to provide the max passenger load three meals each per day.  Perhaps the board insider can provide some insight into that?  The perceived difficulty, of course, will be that not all of those passengers will be able to eat at the location of their choice at the time of their choice for 3 meals every day.  I wonder if that is any different from any other all inclusive holiday, at sea or in a land-based resort?

[Fionboard]

12 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

But the other places you would want to eat you would need to pre-book? To get a table? 

 

Wouldn't you?

 

Same as on the big ships?

 

Unless you mean buffet. Which again is the same on the big ships?

 

Speciality on the small ships is not something you can just choose to do at the time?

 

I don't see any difference between the big and small ships in respect of speciality dining? You have to pre-book on both? Or not get a table.  You can't spontaneously decide to do that? 

Wrong again. As a previous poster said, on the smaller ships you are likely to just turn up and get a table or at least book a table at short notice as availability is more plentiful. Glasshouse in particular is easy to get in. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

53 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

Most people don't want to eat at either 6pm or 9pm, that's the issue.

 

 

Yet the traditional choices were either 6.30pm or 8.30pm? Not much different and with zero choice at all in between. 

 

But we had no choice. One or the other

 

[CarlaMarie]

1 minute ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

I'm not sure that's the  issue tbh

 

Speciality dining on cruises is not expensive compared to the real world prices we now have to pay in restaurants

 

And on Iona and Arvia the most expensive speciality restaurants were full every night. It doesn't even matter if its people dining there multiple times. It still means they aren't dining elsewhere. So freeing up space elsewhere 

 

These restaurants aren't sitting empty

 

 

 

You cannot compare the price of speciality to land based restaurants. You can also not make an opinion it isn't expensive, because for some it actually is.

 

For a start, passengers have already paid for the cruise - their accommodation and food in the buffet, MDR etc... Many passengers travel on a budget and do not wish to pay extra for what they essentially have already paid for.

 

A couple travelling may pay extra, but a large family are unlikely to. Many regular cruisers are unlikely to pay for more speciality dining, compared to say a first time cruiser who wants to try everything. A regular cruiser may factor this in if it is their first time trying Arvia and feel they need to secure dining, but on a repeat cruise are unlikely to or will book a different ship.

 

Currently, OBC is being offered in very attractive amounts, also some cruisers will still have FOBC from covid etc... Hence, this will also influence the popularity of speciality dining. But this will not last forever.

 

Arvia is designed for families who are making different choices than P&O expected, and she is also attracting cruisers who she isn't intended for, which overall is putting pressure on the MDRs.

[Selbourne]

2 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Yet the traditional choices were either 6.30pm or 8.30pm? Not much different and with zero choice at all in between. 

 

But we had no choice. One or the other

 

Yet again, you keep referring back to when it was fixed dining only. Nobody is talking about that - just you. We are all talking about Freedom Dining, which addressed the issue that not everyone wanted to dine at 6.30pm or 8.30pm. This is exhausting 😂 

[Interestedcruisefan]

20 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Although we might be described as ‘traditional cruisers’ we very much like all the additional dining choices that the bigger ships offer, so I’m with you on that. 
 

Just to clarify the point about spontaneity though when it comes to Freedom Dining. Having used it since its inception, we love the ability to dine at different times. Sometimes we want to be on our balcony for a few hours after leaving a port to see all the scenery. On sea days obviously not. Sometimes we want a drink (or two) before dinner. Sometimes not. When the mood (or hunger) takes us, we just wander down to the MDR and 95% of the time have been seated immediately, even at peak times. That’s spontaneity. 
 

Some of that has gone now (or so it seems) on some of the ships. Having read countless reviews, it seems that you either have to dine very early (like you do - doesn’t suit us, it’s still late afternoon 😉), very late or, if you wish to dine at peak times (especially if you want a table for 2) you need a military style strategy plan, which may involve booking multiple MDRs to see which is moving quickest and also trying a walk up approach whilst still in the virtual queue, as that seems to result in being seated quicker 🤔. No problem, I have all of this in my copious notes for each cruise, along with tips on which MDRs move quickest etc. Am I prepared? Yes. Is it the spontaneity that we enjoyed previously? Is it hell 😂 

 

I can absolutely understand why the new setup works well for you. You are an extreme planner, mostly use extra cost restaurants, or dine at off peak times in the MDR. That’s not how many of us cruise though.

 

I would also like to make one final point about something that crops up regularly and that is that the new systems for restaurants and theatres are no different to what you would experience ashore. With all due respect, that is to completely miss the point about what the USP of cruising is (or was). The cruise experience is very much sold as being different to that and, as a result, less hassle. Just turn up when you want. No need to stress over booking. It allows you to enjoy these experiences in a way that you can’t at home. That is spontaneity!

 

We booked MDR twice on Iona whilst in the 710 club which finished at 7.45pm. 

 

Joined the queue about 7.35pm ish and table was ready and waiting for us to walk out to 

 

Not an early or late

 

If the online queue was longer I would have just joined it earlier

 

 

[Fionboard]

4 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Yet the traditional choices were either 6.30pm or 8.30pm? Not much different and with zero choice at all in between. 

 

But we had no choice. One or the other

 

Or neither and eat elsewhere or, in my case, a good lunch ashore or in the MDR leaving the evening free. 

[Megabear2]

38 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

Do we actually have examples of anyone unable to have non paid MDR dining on board Arvia or Iona though? 

 

Or are we just talking about it not happening at the perfect time for them. Or having to wait in either a virtual queue or if they prefer a physical queue to have it happen?

 

 

I certainly met people who had the queue for MDR close on them while they were in it and I believe we have had reports from people on here.

 

I note you keep referring to Iona and Arvia but on this occasion we are only speaking about the one ship, Arvia.  The very fact P&O are looking to change the arrangements on Arvia seem to indicate they are aware they have a problem.

 

I seem to recall from your Arvia blog you didn't use the MDR to dine on her, preferring the buffet and the Quays alongside speciality dining.  That being the case you haven't actually experienced Arvia's MDR for dinner and from what I've read Iona's is a different experience/arrangement.  

 

Reviews, all of which are of course just an individual's record of their experience, constantly refer to stress with getting bookings for restaurants.  The recent Feefo reviews of the 28 May Arvia cruise certainly echo this theme even where the reviewer gives a relatively high overall score and enjoyed the other aspects of their cruise.

[Gettingwarmer]

28 minutes ago, Interestedcruisefan said:

 

And on Iona and Arvia the most expensive speciality restaurants were full every night. It doesn't even matter if its people dining there multiple times. It still means they aren't dining elsewhere. So freeing up space elsewhere 

They were full every night when we were on Iona.  This was in order to get a meal at a decent time. It was the first cruise where we booked speciality restaurants, we had always used the MDR before. 

[Interestedcruisefan]

3 minutes ago, CarlaMarie said:

 

You cannot compare the price of speciality to land based restaurants. You can also not make an opinion it isn't expensive, because for some it actually is.

 

For a start, passengers have already paid for the cruise - their accommodation and food in the buffet, MDR etc... Many passengers travel on a budget and do not wish to pay extra for what they essentially have already paid for.

 

A couple travelling may pay extra, but a large family are unlikely to. Many regular cruisers are unlikely to pay for more speciality dining, compared to say a first time cruiser who wants to try everything. A regular cruiser may factor this in if it is their first time trying Arvia and feel they need to secure dining, but on a repeat cruise are unlikely to or will book a different ship.

 

Currently, OBC is being offered in very attractive amounts, also some cruisers will still have FOBC from covid etc... Hence, this will also influence the popularity of speciality dining. But this will not last forever.

 

Arvia is designed for families who are making different choices than P&O expected, and she is also attracting cruisers who she isn't intended for, which overall is putting pressure on the MDRs.

But I think you suggested the cruisers weren't affording to use these restaurants and putting pressure on other restaurants as a result Carla

 

They clearly are affording them as they are booked up?

 

So it's a red herring to think they aren't being  used? 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 minute ago, Fionboard said:

Or neither and eat elsewhere or, in my case, a good lunch ashore or in the MDR leaving the evening free. 

Which you can still do on a big ship?

 

Just with lots more choice if you want to eat elsewhere?