Once and done with Norwegian. Ugh.

[DCGuy64]

https://www.inc.com/andrew-thomas/the-hidden-ratio-that-could-make-or-break-your-company.html

 

The above article illustrates something I've alluded to many times on this site: negative reviews are more likely to influence people than positive, negative people are more likely to complain to others than positive people are to boast/cheer, and far more people are likely to post negative reviews than positive. In short, I don't believe 99% of the complaints people make because 1/2 the time they're based on personal preferences that don't apply to me, and because happy campers stay silent and unhappy ones won't shut up. The only criticisms I see as valid about the Pr1ma are the unsuitability for cooler climes [just go elsewhere or in warmer weather, problem solved] and the food court capacity issues. Everything else can be summed up in the phrase: "I had a bad time and the ship is to blame." I would NEVER have cruised in the first place if I listened to that kind of talk.

[UKstages]

that’s some wacky logic there.

 

it’s absolutely true that more people feel compelled to write negative reviews. but that doesn’t make them inherently untrustworthy or dishonest. the bias that has to be accounted for is not that the negative reviews are wrong, but that fewer people with good comments feel motivated to tell their tale. how  that translates into not believing 99% of the complaints is puzzling.

 

as for your recounting of what is wrong with the prima, you left out quite a few documented systemic issues that would indeed affect you if you encountered them. the prima is a unique ship. nobody likes to be told they have an ugly baby. NCL built a beautiful - but ugly - baby.

Edited June 21, 2023 by UKstages

[omahabob]

2 hours ago, Agent999 said:

 

While I don't disagree, I think it is more likely that the people you see as "miserable grumpy people" are simply laser-focused on analyzing each and every interaction to see how it can be twisted into something that results in compensation. These are people who can NEVER accept any fact or opinion that may endanger the case for compensation...up to and including accepting any level of personal responsibility.

Which makes them miserable, grumpy people.

 

1 hour ago, vadersprincess12 said:

I have found that it's best to start your reply with the name of the person you are actually talking to since so many people chime in ~ it helps to avoid any confusion on exactly who and what comments you are responding to.  

Or just quote them on a reply.

[graphicguy]

20 hours ago, insidecabin said:

Syd's is good but the same on every ship.

(Subject to cast quality)

 

Its just another show.

 

Capacity is limited stop people going twice.

have a standby line.

 

Make sure there is enough other  interesting thing for people to do.

 

 

 

 

There are two "groups" on different ships.  The group who plays '70s-'90s music in Syd Norman's, different show on 3 different nites.  And, the Beatles review on ships with the Cavern Club....again, different show on 3 different nites.  Have seen them all.  All are great.

 

I think the constant sell outs are a testament to the quality of the shows and the performers.  To put them in a larger venue to fit more people would really detract from the excitement of those shows in their respective venues.  Truth told, I much prefer these shows over the bigger production shows in the main theater....and those are all quite good, too.

 

You can complain about it.  But, bottom line, you want to see them, get in line early.  If you don't want to do that (which it sounds like some do not), then those shows are not an option for you.  There are many more things to do on a daily/nightly basis as is highlighted in the Dailies.  

 

Whenever I hear someone say they were bored on a cruise, knowing how jam packed with activities each cruise line offers, I tend to think those passengers really should look at other vacation options. Or, maybe look at other cruise lines who are geared to a different cross section of experiences.

 

 

[omahabob]

I've heard several people comment about the Beatles Revue, but there wasn't any such show on my Getaway cruise in May. Have they discontinued it, or is it limited to certain ships?

[graphicguy]

Getaway has Syd Norman’s.  The Beatles tribute plays in The Cavern Club, which isn’t on the Getaway.  Syd Norman’s has the 70’s-80’s-90’s band (which is excellent).

 

I know the Cavern Club is on the EPIC.  Not sure of the others.

Edited June 21, 2023 by graphicguy

[omahabob]

No Cavern Club on the Viva either, which I'm sailing on next.

 

By the way, lived in Xenia for 17 years.

[vadersprincess12]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

https://www.inc.com/andrew-thomas/the-hidden-ratio-that-could-make-or-break-your-company.html

 

The above article illustrates something I've alluded to many times on this site: negative reviews are more likely to influence people than positive, negative people are more likely to complain to others than positive people are to boast/cheer, and far more people are likely to post negative reviews than positive. In short, I don't believe 99% of the complaints people make because 1/2 the time they're based on personal preferences that don't apply to me, and because happy campers stay silent and unhappy ones won't shut up. The only criticisms I see as valid about the Pr1ma are the unsuitability for cooler climes [just go elsewhere or in warmer weather, problem solved] and the food court capacity issues. Everything else can be summed up in the phrase: "I had a bad time and the ship is to blame." I would NEVER  have cruised in the first place if I listened to that kind of talk.

Well, you've pretty much summed it up because everyone else's experience doesn't apply to you, however just because you don't believe something doesn't mean that it isn't true or that a person didn't have a specific experience.

 

I find it hard to believe that you or anyone else would not cruise just based on another person's bad experience.  Everything is subjective and I prefer to find out for myself.

[DCGuy64]

3 hours ago, UKstages said:

that’s some wacky logic there.

 

it’s absolutely true that more people feel compelled to write negative reviews. but that doesn’t make them inherently untrustworthy or dishonest. the bias that has to be accounted for is not that the negative reviews are wrong, but that fewer people with good comments feel motivated to tell their tale. how  that translates into not believing 99% of the complaints is puzzling.

 

as for your recounting of what is wrong with the prima, you left out quite a few documented systemic issues that would indeed affect you if you encountered them. the prima is a unique ship. nobody likes to be told they have an ugly baby. NCL built a beautiful - but ugly - baby.

I wasn't intending to go through every single issue with the ship, I only highlighted a couple of issues I'd seen several people post about. I am afraid that due to my work schedule I can't spend all day on Cruise Critic right now (some days I have more free time than others). But there were already 12 pages of comments on this topic and time constraints forced me to limit what I wanted to say. You are right that there were other issues (eg capacity issues at Syd Norman's [I have no interest in those music clubs which was part of what I meant when I said people complain about things I have no interest in], creaking of the ship [in my experience, every mega cruise ship makes some noise], or the lack of indoor space [that was a conscious decision-people complained about that on MSC when they built ships like the Seascape, Seaview and Seaside to allow people to see more of the sun]). So I wasn't trying to cover everything. But I stand by what I said about the naysayers being more frequent and louder. We loved the Epic back in December, but if I had a dime for every review of it that began "never again..."

[DCGuy64]

6 minutes ago, vadersprincess12 said:

Well, you've pretty much summed it up because everyone else's experience doesn't apply to you, however just because you don't believe something doesn't mean that it isn't true or that a person didn't have a specific experience.

 

I find it hard to believe that you or anyone else would not cruise just based on another person's bad experience.  Everything is subjective and I prefer to find out for myself.

Wow, way to thoroughly misunderstand someone. I never said things didn't happen, surprised you got that from my comments. What I was referring to is that when mega cruise ships sail multiple itineraries with 1,000s of passengers each time, the fact that a handful of people had a bad time in no way represents the experience of everyone, not even close. I agree that everything is subjective, which is exactly why I take bad reviews with a grain of salt. (Especially when those reviews attempt to blame the cruise line for things outside its control like weather, passport controls at disembarkation, crowds at embarkation that are the result of passengers ignoring their boarding times and all showing up at once, or long waits at the airport. Once I filter those out, they have even less impact. The OP first stated she was charged $200 at Cagney's and then later clarified that it was part of the dining package so they hadn't actually paid $200 out of pocket.) And when you say you find it hard to believe someone wouldn't cruise due to someone else's bad experience, I invite you look through some of the early replies to this thread where some people did exactly that.

[destar]

8 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

In short, I don't believe 99% of the complaints people make because 1/2 the time they're based on personal preferences that don't apply to me, and because happy campers stay silent and unhappy ones won't shut up. The only criticisms I see as valid about the Pr1ma are the unsuitability for cooler climes [just go elsewhere or in warmer weather, problem solved] and the food court capacity issues. Everything else can be summed up in the phrase: "I had a bad time and the ship is to blame." I would NEVER have cruised in the first place if I listened to that kind of talk.

1000% correct.

Like I said before, 1 bad interaction, and the whole vacation is ruin. You can sense that anger all day.

[graphicguy]

5 hours ago, omahabob said:

No Cavern Club on the Viva either, which I'm sailing on next.

 

By the way, lived in Xenia for 17 years.

I live in the Liberty Twp area.

[omahabob]

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

...I am afraid that due to my work schedule I can't spend all day on Cruise Critic right now...

Then quit. We really miss you when you're not here. 🤪

[MsTabbyKats]

9 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

https://www.inc.com/andrew-thomas/the-hidden-ratio-that-could-make-or-break-your-company.html

 

The above article illustrates something I've alluded to many times on this site: negative reviews are more likely to influence people than positive, negative people are more likely to complain to others than positive people are to boast/cheer, and far more people are likely to post negative reviews than positive. In short, I don't believe 99% of the complaints people make because 1/2 the time they're based on personal preferences that don't apply to me, and because happy campers stay silent and unhappy ones won't shut up. The only criticisms I see as valid about the Pr1ma are the unsuitability for cooler climes [just go elsewhere or in warmer weather, problem solved] and the food court capacity issues. Everything else can be summed up in the phrase: "I had a bad time and the ship is to blame." I would NEVER have cruised in the first place if I listened to that kind of talk.

Interesting article.  Many times I do make decisions based on "bad reviews".  But not on one review, it would have to be a trend about something important to me.

 

My only "bad" cruise was when I had a fight with DH.  So, nobody should sail on that ship, right, because I was in a bad mood!

 

[omahabob]

I always pay more attention to negative reviews. But that statement is completely meaningless without context. I look at the 'number' of positive views, and pay attention to the comments in negative reviews. That doesn't mean I give more credence or weight to those reviews. In my view it's easy to love something nice, and a cruise ship fits that bill. But to me, there's only so many ways to say "I loved it' before it gets repetitious. I want to see the negative comments, primarily for two reasons. First, with all the possible issues on a cruise ship, it's easier to keep up with the relatively few negatives than the sheer volume of positives. Second, and often more importantly, I want to see if what bothered someone else really matters to me. Quite often it doesn't. In fact, most of the time it doesn't. And even at times where it might matter, I know it isn't likely to happen to me. It's also not the fault of the cruise line or ship in many cases, so I don't blame them for things they don't control. So, while I pay closer attention to negative reviews, that does not in any way mean I'm more negatively influenced by them.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is the venue here. These discussion forums tend to focus more on singular issues than the overall big picture. The comments here, along with any frustrations that might accompany them, are going to be more focused. But if you look at the actual "Reviews" section on Cruise Critic, which is more 'big picture', you'll see quite plainly that the positive reviews far outnumber the negative.

 

So, saying that people pay more attention to negative reviews isn't really the revelation or condemnation that some people seem to think it is. Sometimes it's actually a good thing. It is for me.

[omahabob]

40 minutes ago, MsTabbyKats said:

...My only "bad" cruise was when I had a fight with DH.  So, nobody should sail on that ship, right, because I was in a bad mood!

Just let us know when you're going to be on that ship in a bad mood again, and we can avoid sailing on it. 🤪

Edited June 22, 2023 by omahabob

[HowardK]

How do all these people whine when they are on a cruise and don't have internet? Do they get the unlimited plan?

My uncle Ray Sevens, goes on the cruise and doesn't worry about the butler etc... he picks the smallest inside cabin, and spends his days outside reading and walking. He doesn't care about perfection just the sea. 

[jsn55]

THIS is why I read all the reviews:  "I want to see if what bothered someone else really matters to me. Quite often it doesn't. In fact, most of the time it doesn't." 

 

I pick up a great deal of information reading reviews, solid information that helps me choose my next cruise or my next hotel.  The great majority of negative reviews about anything are based on one negative experience the OP had.  They're all in a lather because the front desk didn't upgrade their room ... those reviews are easy to discern.  But that review may contain a few nuggets of information that describes things 'as they are'.  Good example is an upcoming hotel res in Venice.  We're only there one night, so I splurged on a room overlooking a canal.  But first I read the reviews to see if anyone thought the canal smelled bad.  A review is the only way I could possibly know this before checking in, therefore it's valuable to me.  I'm not going to waste $600 on a hotel room with a balcony if I have to keep the doors shut to mitigate the smell.  

[graphicguy]

I’ve sailed all the major mainstream lines, and MSC, which is a fraction the presence in North America compared to the other lines.

 

In brief, I pretty much know what to expect on all the lines.   Not a lot can surprise me, and even a mediocre cruise is still a great time!

 

Keep an open mind and be flexible, you’d be hard pressed not to have a good time (unless you’re looking for reasons to thwart your good times).

[LloydJr]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

you’d be hard pressed not to have a good time (unless you’re looking for reasons to thwart your good times).

Are there really such people out there?! 🤣

[omahabob]

They probably don't start out that way, and don't consciously intend to be that way. But there are indeed some people who, once a negative event gets them going, will act (and react) in ways that pretty much guarantee more negative outcomes. Sad, but unfortunately true.

 

Then they come here and write reviews!

Edited June 22, 2023 by omahabob

[Goldenknight]

18 hours ago, Sailing12Away said:

Read the first post and skipped the next 10+ pages.... 

 

Just so sick of seeing the same nonsense both on here (and FB is actually worse these days) where people fault a particular cruise line (or single out a particular ship even now) for 'XYZ' when it has nothing to do with the cruise (or ship) itself . . . . 

 . . . .  

I'm convinced there are just some miserable grumpy people out there who can never be pleased. The more these people take cruises and realize they don't enjoy them, the better, because hopefully they stick to their word and don't come back leaving the ship with room for folks who understand a vacation is what you make of it and even watching paint dry can be fun with the right crowd of friends around you.

 . . . . . . . 

 

But thank you OP for reminding me why I've made a conscious effort to avoid coming to sites like this and FB any more than necessary.

 

 

+1

 

This is the most intelligent post ever, anywhere on this forum.  Thank you.  

 

There is a reason I don't do ANY social media whatsoever, like FB.   People seem to have unlimited time to "like" or "hate" millions of people's posts with little emojis.  

The negativity of serial whiners is reflected in someone's recent review of the Prima:  

*******

Other observations: This cruise included a contingent of folks from "Cruise Critic" they traveled en-masse and disrupted other passengers wherever they went. They were loud and obnoxious. Thankfully they only disrupted an area they took over for about an hour, then moved on to another venue. I now have a VERY negative opinion of these folks. 

*******

I ignore threads started by certain whiners who enjoy griping about every imagined slight.

It's easy to also ignore the serial complainers.

 

FWIW, I would write a positive review of the Prima, but why bother, and indeed have booked again for another 11 day sailing. . . .  an amazing price in the Haven this time that was irresistible.  

 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by Goldenknight

[UKstages]

2 hours ago, Goldenknight said:

There is a reason I don't do ANY social media whatsoever, like FB.

um, geez, i don’t know how to break this to you, but you’re posting on a social media site that you’ve been a member of, apparently, for four years or so. you’ve posted twelve times in the first 22 days of this month.

 

2 hours ago, Goldenknight said:

I ignore threads started by certain whiners who enjoy griping about every imagined slight. It's easy to also ignore the serial complainers.

 

it’s equally as easy to ignore the serial praisers, whose comments are generally unqualified and typically amount to an attack on another poster’s right to post a negative review or comment.

 

2 hours ago, Goldenknight said:

I would write a positive review of the Prima, but why bother…

perhaps to qualify and substantiate your serial praise?

 

and counter the incessant whining that you abhor in others?

 

i said somewhere upthread that people are passionate in their dislike for the prima, but that we just don’t see the same passion from those that like it. if you like the prima or love the prima, clap your hands! by all means, write a review and tell everybody why… put those serial whiners in their place!

[Asawi]

2 hours ago, Goldenknight said:

 

The negativity of serial whiners is reflected in someone's recent review of the Prima:  

*******

Other observations: This cruise included a contingent of folks from "Cruise Critic" they traveled en-masse and disrupted other passengers wherever they went. They were loud and obnoxious. Thankfully they only disrupted an area they took over for about an hour, then moved on to another venue. I now have a VERY negative opinion of these folks. 

 

OMG! I'm guessing this is a joke. It has me laughing out loud anyway! 😄 

[insidecabin]

5 minutes ago, Asawi said:

OMG! I'm guessing this is a joke. It has me laughing out loud anyway! 😄 

 

Happens, more on a popular CC cruises with big roll calls and organized events.

 

Wonder how many in the casino shudder when 100+ people turn up for the slot pull?

 

You also get sub groups that tend to hang out together(eg. solos)  which can dominate a space at times.  

 

It's not just CC that other place can get groups forming as well.

 

there is a UK site that has cruise deals, groups have started forming on some trips, generally first timer solo when the rates are great, they can take over sections of a bar and get loud as they evening progresses.

 

Often no worse than a large family/friends group  once you hit 8+ you can dominate a space.,