Do any HAL excursions allow you to step foot on Antarctica?

[Guest ldtr]

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

Here is a novel way of setting foot on Antarctica - a one-day flight from Cape Town, South Africa - $13K per person: https://white-desert.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/GreatestDay-201920-.pdf

As long as the weather cooperates. I once spent 8 days in Christchurch waiting for the weather to clear for our flight to McMurdo to be able to go.

[Ipeeinthepools]

9 hours ago, anniegb said:

Is the number of days spent 'driving by' material ?

 

NCL has 1 cruise with 1 or 2 days 'drive by' whereas HAL et al normally allow 4 days.  JMO it is a very long distance to travel for 1 or days 'drive by'?? or am I missing something.

 

Mobility issues preclude me from doing zodiac excursions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Yes. The number of days is material, it increases your odds of finding wildlife and you potentially can explore more scenery.  Based on what I saw last winter, I would not hesitate to book a HAL drive by cruise.  It is not the same as an expedition ship, but you will see exactly the same things as an expedition ship.  The same scenery and the whale watching will be very close.  You likely will not see Emperor penguins but every thing else will be similar.

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

You also need to consider the probability of actually getting close enough to see something, which can be severely impacted by weather and ice conditions.

 

Most of the ships completing the scenic cruising do not have Polar Class hull ratings, so the Master is restricted when ice is present. Basically they are restricted to similar conditions experienced in Alaska with bergy bits. The Expedition ships, with Polar Class hulls can operate in thin 1st year ice.

 

The Master may also be limited by the weather, both wind and seas, and the potential for moving ice.

 

Therefore, if NCL only has 1 or 2-days scenic cruising, you have a higher potential of not seeing anything. With 4-days scenic cruising, the Master has more options to work around ice, wind and seas. 

Most of the ships spend the bulk of their time on the west side of the peninsula and the ice class rating will likely not be a factor most of the year,  the larger cruise ships can see exactly the same thing as the expedition ships.  Take a look this December and January and watch where the ships operate.  I would probably suggest watching from the promenade deck and then moving to the other side if the Captain or crew spot whales or other wildlife.

 

Don’t worry about any limitations that you might have that keep you off the expedition ships, instead enjoy what you can see from the other ships.

[Turtles06]

6 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 It is not the same as an expedition ship, but you will see exactly the same things as an expedition ship.  

No. Not exactly. 
 

 

[OlsSalt]

On drive-by cruises, you also won't see the infamous "mud room", and you won't be scraping the bottom of your boots and pants legs with a toothbrush after every landing on a drive-by cruise. And you most likely won't see the rental bill for the extra gear you are required to have when making landings on the Zodiacs. And you won't see yourself up to your knees in ice water as you make wet landings to get ashore.

 

We were signed up and paid for a Silver Sea Expedition cruise from Argentina to Cape Town via Tristan da Cunha, and it did get a little over-whelming when we saw how much necessary work we, as passengers, were required to do in order to rightfully protect the environment when we made any landings. So even for $18,000 each,  it was not going to be luxury vacation even if we had our own personal "butler".

 

"Covid" craziness put an end to that cruise for us - and Silver Sea gave us our money back right away. Props to them. So nothing against expedition cruising, but I just don't think it is fair to put down drive-by cruises as something to ignore or avoid. Both options have merits and demerits. And if one has only one chance to see Antartica only as a drive-by, nothing should discourage them.

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Most of the ships spend the bulk of their time on the west side of the peninsula and the ice class rating will likely not be a factor most of the year,  

 

If there is any ice in the vicinity, including small bergy bits, the hull's ice classification is most definitely a consideration. When operating in, or close to Polar regions, the Master is legally required to operate the vessel in accordance with the IMO Polar Code, and any restrictions based on the vessel's hull classification.

 

In addition to current ice conditions they must also follow guidance from reports of ice projections.

[Guest ldtr]

25 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If there is any ice in the vicinity, including small bergy bits, the hull's ice classification is most definitely a consideration. When operating in, or close to Polar regions, the Master is legally required to operate the vessel in accordance with the IMO Polar Code, and any restrictions based on the vessel's hull classification.

 

In addition to current ice conditions they must also follow guidance from reports of ice projections.

If I recall right, 2023 and 2024 are when most of the larger ships start running into the rule changes and more limits on how far south they can go.

[Ipeeinthepools]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

If there is any ice in the vicinity, including small bergy bits, the hull's ice classification is most definitely a consideration. When operating in, or close to Polar regions, the Master is legally required to operate the vessel in accordance with the IMO Polar Code, and any restrictions based on the vessel's hull classification.

 

In addition to current ice conditions they must also follow guidance from reports of ice projections.

 

I’m sure those are the rules and I’m sure everyone follows the rules.  Bookmark this thread and we’ll come back to it in January when the HAL ships are operating in Antarctica.  You’ll see that they follow the same routes as the expedition ships on the west side of the peninsula.

[NaughtyNanna]

12 hours ago, Linaeve said:

 

Unlike others, I understood what you were saying and was thinking something similar. It's one reason I have really only considered smaller ships if I were to do Antarctica. Thank you for sharing your perspective given your own personal experience! ❤️ 

Thank you @Linaeve!  I was beginning to think my communication skills had deserted me!! 🤣

[NaughtyNanna]

5 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

On drive-by cruises, you also won't see the infamous "mud room", and you won't be scraping the bottom of your boots and pants legs with a toothbrush after every landing on a drive-by cruise. And you most likely won't see the rental bill for the extra gear you are required to have when making landings on the Zodiacs. And you won't see yourself up to your knees in ice water as you make wet landings to get ashore.

 

We were signed up and paid for a Silver Sea Expedition cruise from Argentina to Cape Town via Tristan da Cunha, and it did get a little over-whelming when we saw how much necessary work we, as passengers, were required to do in order to rightfully protect the environment when we made any landings.

 

 

 

Perhaps if you consider an expedition again, maybe consider a different ship or shipping line!  Of course things may have changed since 2008, but at that time there wasn't an extra invoice for rental gear.  We were given an extremely warm and waterproof jacket, which was ours to keep, and we were all fitted for gumboots, which we kept for the duration and then returned.  And of course we all wore small lifejackets when boarding the zodiacs.  The cost of these was  probably built into the fare though.  There weren't toothbrushes to scrub our boots and pants.  Yes, there were however more sophisticated methods of scraping and dis-infecting our boots when leaving and returning to the ship!    The first day, we were given a talk on how we needed to be very respectful and thoughtful during the landings.  There was no work at all for the passengers.  Unless you consider the ten seconds it takes to disinfect your boots, and being careful not to take anything other than your camera ashore, and leave nothing but your footprints behind, as being work.  I can't recall ever being knee deep in icy water when landing either!  Ankle deep at most!  😁

[OlsSalt]

Know before you go on an Antarctic Expedition zodiac landing cruise:

 

WATERPROOF BOOTS

Most Antarctic expedition companies also lend you boots, so do check before you pack your own. If they tell you to bring some, you’ll need good quality, insulated, waterproof ones that come up at least to mid-calf and ideally higher. You will almost certainly have to disembark the zodiac into the surf, and you don’t want to be walking around for hours with cold, wet feet!

If you are bringing your own, avoid boots with a deep tread. You have to clean your boots before and after every landing, and you don’t want to be spending hours trying to get penguin guano out of every crack! One popular brand – and the ones that we were given – is Muck Boots.

 

[Hlitner]

The thread has certainly moved away from the OPs question for which the simple answer is NO!  If one really wants to experience Antarctica they must look to the expedition ships of Seabourn, Scenic, Hurtigruten, Viking, etc.  Cruising “by” limited parts of Antarctica is akin to cruising past NYC (and saying you have experienced NYC).

 

Hank

[anniegb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

The thread has certainly moved away from the OPs question for which the simple answer is NO!  If one really wants to experience Antarctica they must look to the expedition ships of Seabourn, Scenic, Hurtigruten, Viking, etc.  Cruising “by” limited parts of Antarctica is akin to cruising past NYC (and saying you have experienced NYC).

 

Hank

Are you suggesting if you can't afford or physically able to experience Antarctica, you don't visit?? Contrarian that I am, I would look forward to Drake Lake as I only experienced a calm Cape Horn - so disappointing.

 

NYC is not the best comparator perhaps??

 

I was thinking along the lines of Grand Canyon.  You can enjoy a helicopter ride across the GC and /or hike in GC.  Both different but enjoyable experiences. I would  not dismiss either,

 

Or perhaps the Great Barrier Reef?? You can fly across GBR or snorkel?? Again very different but enjoyable experiences. 

 

Thank you - you have given me food for thought.  

 

Annie

 

PS I enjoyed your recent blog on Japan.

 

 

 

 

[anniegb]

17 hours ago, AroundWithMAPTravels said:

As you probably have figured out by previous replies… if there is ANY way you can swing going there on a smaller ship that will allow passengers off, DO IT!  If that is not an option, choose the trip with longest time there…. It’s a rather long sail with the possibility of some rather rough seas (it’s called the Drake Shake for reason).  However, it is truly mind-blowingly awesome!   Been to Alaska several times.   Love it.   Been to the arctic and encountered some really good ice(And LOTS of polar bears). Love it.    But there is still NOTHING like Antarctica.  Other posters are correct in that with out ice class ship, the area traveled will be limited, but still worth the trip.   Was there in February on a Lindblad/NatGeo trip…. I still remember the awe on everyone’s faces when we got our first glimpse of the ice and mountains !   Time spent on land/island/ice was special, but so was cruising.  
 

Thank you very much.  Food for thought.

 

Annie

[Hlitner]

Just now, anniegb said:

Are you suggesting if you can't afford or physically able to experience Antarctica, you don't visit?? Contrarian that I am, I would look forward to Drake Lake as I only experienced a calm Cape Horn - so disappointing.

 

NYC is not the best comparator perhaps??

 

I was thinking along the lines of Grand Canyon.  You can enjoy a helicopter ride across the GC and /or hike in GC.  Both different but enjoyable experiences. I would  not dismiss either,

 

Or perhaps the Great Barrier Reef?? You can fly across GBR or snorkel?? Again very different but enjoyable experiences. 

 

Thank you - you have given me food for thought.  

 

Annie

 

PS I enjoyed your recent blog on Japan.

 

 

 

 

There are many things not experienced because of the lack of wealth, time, good health, etc.  Many of us simply do the best we can at satisfying our wants.  But, this does not change reality.  I would love to walk on the moon, but must be content to gaze at it from afar.  But, seeing the moon is obviously not the same as actually walking on the moon.  And, trust me, that seeing the Great Barrier Reed from the air is not even close to what one can experience by diving or snorkeling.

 

Speaking of our recent Japan blog, cruising on the Seabourn Quest has restored my faith that cruising post COVID can be as good as the ole days.  We look forward to the day when HAL stops making “promises” and actually returns to the line we used to adore.

 

Hank

[anniegb]

19 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

There are many things not experienced because of the lack of wealth, time, good health, etc.  Many of us simply do the best we can at satisfying our wants.  But, this does not change reality.  I would love to walk on the moon, but must be content to gaze at it from afar.  But, seeing the moon is obviously not the same as actually walking on the moon.  And, trust me, that seeing the Great Barrier Reed from the air is not even close to what one can experience by diving or snorkeling.

 

Speaking of our recent Japan blog, cruising on the Seabourn Quest has restored my faith that cruising post COVID can be as good as the ole days.  We look forward to the day when HAL stops making “promises” and actually returns to the line we used to adore.

 

Hank

It all depends upon whether the snorkelling was done pre or post bleaching??  

On a positive note, the GBR can recover given enough time.

Sorry for going off on a tangent.

Edited August 15, 2023 by anniegb

[seaoma]

15 minutes ago, anniegb said:

seeing the moon is obviously not the same as actually walking on the moon.

 

It's not the same, but it is still enjoyable and since it's the only way I can experience the moon, I will take it and be happy. 

 

My advice to those who desire to travel anywhere, regardless of your wealth, time, health, etc., do what you are able, however you are able, and enjoy it to it's full potential and don't let anyone tell you your experience isn't good enough.

 

My apologies, @anniegb, I didn't mean to take @Hlitner quote from your post. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by seaoma

[TiogaCruiser]

On 8/12/2023 at 7:00 AM, Big Dawg CC said:

We did the SA/Antarctica on the Zaandam in 2020.  A HAL excursion was offered to take a zodiac and go ashore.  It was pricey - over $1,000 per person.  We did not do it.  On the SA/Antarctica on the Oosterdam in 2023, no such excursion was offered.  

I’m curious as to how that could happen under the rules.  When did Zaandam get zodiacs?

[seaoma]

Post 66 is referring to this quote and shouldn't be attributed to @anniegb

 

33 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

seeing the moon is obviously not the same as actually walking on the moon.

Edited August 15, 2023 by seaoma

[anniegb]

9 minutes ago, seaoma said:

 

It's not the same, but it is still enjoyable and since it's the only way I can experience the moon, I will take it and be happy. 

 

My advice to those who desire to travel anywhere, regardless of your wealth, time, health, etc., do what you are able, however you are able, and enjoy it to it's full potential and don't let anyone tell you your experience isn't good enough.

 

My apologies, @anniegb, I didn't mean to take @Hlitner quote from your post. 

No apology necessary - thanks.

[Big Dawg CC]

1 hour ago, TiogaCruiser said:

I’m curious as to how that could happen under the rules.  When did Zaandam get zodiacs?

As noted, that was January 2020, just before the pandemic.  The new regulations had not gone into effect yet and I have no idea whether they would now even prevent that. 

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, ldtr said:

If I recall right, 2023 and 2024 are when most of the larger ships start running into the rule changes and more limits on how far south they can go.

 

The IMO Polar Code came into effect in 2017, which is after I retired, so it isn't one I have studied in great detail. They normally have a phased in approach, so you could be correct.

[Heidi13]

11 hours ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

 

I’m sure those are the rules and I’m sure everyone follows the rules.  Bookmark this thread and we’ll come back to it in January when the HAL ships are operating in Antarctica.  You’ll see that they follow the same routes as the expedition ships on the west side of the peninsula.

 

Of course there are rules - the IMO Polar Code, which came into effect in 2017 and the vessel's Classification Society Rules, with respect to hull strengthening. In accordance with the ISM Code, the company also provides the Master with operational procedures, which must be followed, except situations relating to the safety of the vessel and preventing pollution.

 

Non-Polar Class rated hulls may follow the same routes, as the smaller expedition ships with higher rated hulls, but it is entirely subject to the ice conditions. An example that more pax will have experienced is Hubbard Glacier and Tracy Arm in Alaska. Regular cruise ships with non-Polar Class hulls are sometimes/often unable to enter either bay due to floating bergy bits, but a Polar Class 5 or 6 expedition ship could go up to the glaciers. Bergy bits may look small and fragile, but did damage to the Norwegian Sun a couple years ago, as she clearly had insufficient ice strengthening for entering those waters.

 

If you watch Marine Traffic or another AIS tracking website and all ships are operating in the same area, all it means is that current ice conditions are within the limits of the ship with the lowest ice classification. That may change the next day or week, as ice conditions change. If the operational area is consistent for the entire season, the expedition ships do not require the more expensive PC5 or 6 hulls to operate in those waters, having higher rated hulls for risk mitigation.

[Ipeeinthepools]

Yep, you’re correct. Weather and sea conditions always control where a ship can sail.  Please watch the routes they sail in January 

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, TiogaCruiser said:

I’m curious as to how that could happen under the rules.  When did Zaandam get zodiacs?

 

We were on the Zaandam  Jan 2020 - no such zodiac excursion offered on our particular cruise. The Maasdam In-Depth cruises had Zodiacs on board,  but they never got fully utilized, if ever before that program closed down. 

[Heidi13]

52 minutes ago, Ipeeinthepools said:

Yep, you’re correct. Weather and sea conditions always control where a ship can sail.  Please watch the routes they sail in January 

 

With almost 30-years in command of pax vessels, I probably know more than most where vessels can sail and any restrictions. Don't need to watch AIS positions, especially as I don't pay for the premium service, so I don't get live satellite positions.