Response from Princess to email re changes

[Steelers36]

18 minutes ago, Tigrou said:

 

However, the final paragraph of the letter is factually incorrect.  It states, "Princess Plus/Princess Premier has not been advertised as a service inclusive of Casual Dining, Ocean Now Delivery and Room Service Delivery".  For at least one upcoming cruise on Sky Princess, the Princess website clearly advertises Alfredo's under included dining and the other 2 items as included in the Standard Fare - and surely anything included in the Standard Fare is also included in the enhanced packages.

 

They may not consider the changes to be significant but they should not claim that these items were never included when the evidence is still readily available on their website.

You have a point in that Plus and Premier include everything in Standard, plus additional perks and benefits.  That said, Princess never listed free Ocean Now, free RS, free casual dining in the package contents list.  So, he has a weaselly exit, but it just becomes a futile argument because these list of package inclusions is not the final word.

[Guest ldtr]

Just now, Steelers36 said:

I doubt it.  I certainly have not seen this when dipping into some "live from" reports.

Have seen some long lines on the first night on a couple of ships.  On one ship they had a different check in process than on most and it was certainly slower.  Part of the problem is that many were encountering  the  DMW system for the first time and had not made reservations or were in the line for the wrong dining room.  Usually the lines smooth out after the first day.

[Outerdog]

2 hours ago, cr8tiv1 said:

Still does not address $5 room service charge for EliteSuite passengers. 

 

Nothing quite like the experience of paying $10k for a suite, then getting nickel and dimed for five bucks. Really cheapens the experience, and I don't think this point can be overstated.

 

Bonus points that they made this glorious change after final payment. I certainly wouldn't have cancelled because of it, but still.

 

[c-boy]

3 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

Well, that CEO of theirs, Padgett, came from Disney, and nobody loves money more than Disney.

😆   DIS is in my portfolio.  😃 and then 🤑

[Steelers36]

18 minutes ago, ldtr said:

They also have ala carte with a lower price for just Pizza or just appetizer or desert.

Sure, but offering even two different pizza sizes might be a great thing to do.  Complicates the kitchen I suppose, but pretty cool for a group so you would have individual size and family size, so to speak.

[Tigrou]

12 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

It does reflect poorly on them to not have updated everywhere on the website where dining is described.  I could equally show you a page or more where Alfredo's is not listed as an inclusion.

 

This documentation issue has been posted about multiple times since the changes were rolled out.  I am sure PCL will have a legal out since the website displays are not the official contract with passengers, but it is a terrible poor show.  

 

 

Yes, I know the website is inconsistent.  In some places where it clearly shows an item as being included, when you click on a link it takes you to a page where it shows you it's an extra charge.

 

Similarly the email notifications - or lack of - are inconsistent.  Somehow Princess are still able to send me regular emails wanting me to book more cruises, or vote for them in the Wave Awards, or take out a subscription to The Telegraph (!), but as yet they haven't told me that on my upcoming cruise they are going to charge me for items that were included when I booked.  Not even a generic email outlining the changes.  

 

The one which states:

We know trust is important when booking your holiday, so, for complete peace of mind, book your next cruise with Princess.

is quite ironic in the circumstances.

 

 

[Mike07]

4 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

 Either the business did not properly describe (thoroughly) what was needed, or the key IT resource(s) did not understand at all the full picture of dining on the ships.  What Princess was publicly promising the software not only fell short, but indeed could never even possibly accomplish the promise.  A whole different business process design would have been necessary - and to a large extent it still is.  But, PCL HQ seems to want to limp along with it the way it is.  On top of insufficient business process work, what was programmed was full of bugs for - IDK - maybe a year.  It seems to do all it can do these days, still far from a perfect solution.  I am thinking most of the current functional issues (that is doing what it was programmed to do) are due to data corruption matters or poor initialization.  But, all I can do is make some half-reasonable guesses based on outside observations and my IT brain and experience.

 

 

So, Princess contracted Accenture to build the app and deploy the tech behind said app. Considering the complexity of the app, it was likely not cheap, and hence PCL decided to go with the cheapest bidder. Well, Accenture (and the others) make heavy use of SEA (south east Asia), to design and code these apps and tech with sometimes questionable oversight from the MDs and consultants cashing the big checks in America, UK, and other western nations.

 

I would estimate that the vast majority of consultants were under 25 YOA and had likely never stepped foot on a cruise ship, let alone a Princess cruise ship. Furthermore, a Princess cruise fare is prohibitively expensive for a Filipino, Vietnamese or whatever citizen of the world Accenture used to do the underlying coding.

 

Apple, Google, and Microsoft --- truth be told not even sure if they do app development like this --- would be far more costly to deliver an app built by their SWEs, but it would have been far more functional from Day One.

[dsukid]

It doesn't seem that they adjusted the hours at all. Alfredos is open the latest on Sapphire other than International Cafe which is always open. Alfredos is open from 11AM to 11PM and Lido Pissa is 11AM to 930PM. 

[Tigrou]

8 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Do you expect to get a better response complaining on CC?  Or is the goal to merely complain and get others to complain with you.

 

 

I was merely commenting in response to someone else's suggestion that those wishing to complain could visit guest services on board.  I have no 'goal', just participating in a discussion.

 

[Mike07]

2 minutes ago, Tigrou said:

 

Yes, I know the website is inconsistent.  In some places where it clearly shows an item as being included, when you click on a link it takes you to a page where it shows you it's an extra charge.

 

Similarly the email notifications - or lack of - are inconsistent.  Somehow Princess are still able to send me regular emails wanting me to book more cruises, or vote for them in the Wave Awards, or take out a subscription to The Telegraph (!), but as yet they haven't told me that on my upcoming cruise they are going to charge me for items that were included when I booked.  Not even a generic email outlining the changes. 

 

 

To be fair, the marketing database is likely disconnected from the currently booked cruise database, but from an end-user perspective, you are 100% right.  PCL is trying to find more ways to get money from you and fewer ways that actually let you know what's changing for the worse in your booked itineraries.

[Guest ldtr]

18 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

It does reflect poorly on them to not have updated everywhere on the website where dining is described.  I could equally show you a page or more where Alfredo's is not listed as an inclusion.

 

This documentation issue has been posted about multiple times since the changes were rolled out.  I am sure PCL will have a legal out since the website displays are not the official contract with passengers, but it is a terrible poor show.  

 

I certainly slag the Ocean IT Team when it is deserved, but I see this as a business user fail.  When this project was initiated, someone should have been assigned responsibility to identify and correct all locations on Princess.com web pages that needed updating.  Any changes might be given to an IT resource to implement (although these days, a smart user ought to be in place that is knowledgeable as to updating web pages and shouldn't even need IT resources). 

 

Now, we don't know the facts of the matter.  Perhaps someone was given the job and they just didn't do a thorough job at all.  We don't see behind the curtain as to what's what, but it has been clear for a long time that Princess does a very poor job at keeping up online documentation.  

 

If they had some decent software and a clever IT person, they should be able to tag their webpages with keyword topics and then be able to display or filter all webpages that mention one or more of those keywords.  That is pretty basic stuff. 

 

I am not sure whether there is anyone at PCL HQ outside of admin staff and others who are trying to sell cabins.

One of the problems with updates with this kind of change is that there is no single implementation date.

 

Would have been better to say as of X date these changes will be made and to put the changes 90 days out.  If these were considered to be significant changes pretty sure that is how they would have done it.

 

Since they do not consider them significant.  They likely would not have made an announcement at all.  However these changes are largely to change behavior and encourage the purchase of packages.  As such the announcement was made to show the changes in packages an to do that they did need to mention the charges for those not buying packages.

 

The main reason that they are not significant is that the costs are optional and there are alternatives that do not involve costs.

 

[Tigrou]

10 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

Well, that CEO of theirs, Padgett, came from Disney, and nobody loves money more than Disney.

My husband used to say, Disney will take your last dollar but somehow they do it so well that you really don't mind! 

 

[Mike07]

3 minutes ago, Tigrou said:

I was merely commenting in response to someone else's suggestion that those wishing to complain could visit guest services on board.  I have no 'goal', just participating in a discussion.

 

 

 

You can complain to guest services and you can even meet privately with the hotel director... maybe even the Captain if you're a squeaky enough wheel, but they're only responding to orders from corporate. The hotel director can personally be against all the changes, but good luck getting them to override what corporate says.

 

People that think complaining to guest services will accomplish anything are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mike07

[Ombud]

4 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

24 minutes ago, c-boy said:

are there long lines with wait times of an hour or longer in the main dinning room ?

I doubt it.  I certainly have not seen this when dipping into some "live from" reports.

Maybe it depends on the dining time? I get an assigned table and pre-order so I just walk in. Past a long LONG line at 5-5:30. Many times they will say "welcome back Miss Gayl" and I guess that's to usher me ahead of the others. But I also eat fast, in way less than an hour. I can also get in fast at 8pm. Although I did have my meal not prepped when I showed up at 8pm one night and could only have steamed veggies no seasoning  / no salt or pepper just to be safe. 

 

Just noticed someone put me in at 6pm on my next 3 cruises - solo table / Deck 5 midship. Huh. 

 

2 minutes ago, Tigrou said:

I was merely commenting in response to someone else's suggestion that those wishing to complain could visit guest services on board.  I have no 'goal', just participating in a discussion.

 

That works if you want a set time and can't find DORM but even the head waiter can help out those who have to pre-order. Be aware that this will limit your food options and you will be assigned to someone. I've seen that someone override menu choices as this service is for allergies not preferences (mine were documented by medical staff on ship)

1 minute ago, ldtr said:

Would have been better to say as of X date these changes will be made and to put the changes 90 days out.  If these were considered to be significant changes pretty sure that is how they would have done it.

They notified us when standard pax needed to pay $10 to get medallions shipped. Ordered mine & getting 2024 cruises for free 🙂

 

[Tigrou]

3 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

You can complain to guest services and you can even meet privately with the hotel director... maybe even the Captain if you're a squeaky enough wheel, but they're only responding to orders from corporate. The hotel director can personally be against all the changes, but good luck getting them to override what corporate says.

 

People that think complaining to guest services will accomplish anything are going to be in for a rude awakening.

 

Exactly my point.  I got nowhere when it was an issue which was clearly the responsibility of someone on the ship.  Which is why I wouldn't waste my time - or theirs - complaining to them about something which is clearly beyond their control.

 

As I said earlier in this thread, I feel sorry for the guest services staff who will be having to deal with passengers who are unhappy about being charged for things they understood would be included and who may well not have found out until they were actually charged for them.

 

[dsukid]

Four this morning actually. Walk up, ask for medallions and they ask why, then walk up the stairs to GS. I think everyone is unhappy. 

[dsukid]

Lunch rush... Added a single 4 top.

 

 

[beg3yrs]

2 hours ago, azbirdmom said:

... But if they are truly concerned about guests waiting unnecessarily then I think the first thing they should have tackled is the long wait times to reach a phone representative, and then when you reach them they are often not likely to be able to solve your issue.  Let's see them address that customer dissatisfaction issue which has been a lot more painful than waiting in line for pizza.

Uh oh! Here it comes. A 900 number for Princess that gets you immediately to a well-trained competent phone representative who is a native English speaker and is empowered to make all sorts of adjustments and decisions.

[Mike07]

8 minutes ago, dsukid said:

Lunch rush... Added a single 4 top.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the live shot. I would prefer a more enclosed space with maybe one-way windows so I can look down at the poors that aren't able to afford my dining choice.

[Tigrou]

3 hours ago, antsp said:

Typical c*ap from corporate, the first line about enhancements. That horizon Court is really popular for breakfast, and lunch, best start charging for it as that will help. Do they take us to fools. I've had a copy from a UK consumer lawyer about a legal complaint against Princess UK, that has been registered with Southampton trading standards, it will be interesting to see what happens 

 

I wonder if anyone will contact ABTA.  (In the UK, Princess is a member of the Association of British Travel Agents and, as such, should comply with the ABTA Code of Conduct.)

 

From the ABTA Code of Conduct Guidance:

 

"Advertising

 

Code 1D Members shall ensure that no Advertising or Promotion or any other publication, whether in writing or otherwise, shall contain anything that is likely to mislead the public.

 

The first point of contact between an ABTA Member and a client is likely to be their advertising. Difficulties later on can often be traced back to problems with advertising, be it inaccurate brochure descriptions, unclear information on a website, or press adverts that don't contain adequate information.

 

In the Code, advertising is widely defined as “a means of promoting Travel Arrangements by any printed, viewable, audible or other form” so it includes brochures, all types of marketing and can include viewdata as well, depending on the circumstances of the case.

 

In general, advertising mustn’t mislead. Clients must be provided with sufficient information so that they can make informed choices. Remember clients might be misled by omission. Adverts must be based on accurate information. Members are less likely to be found to be in breach of this Code of Conduct if they can show that they had good procedures in place to verify the accuracy of the descriptions in their advertising."

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

Sure, but offering even two different pizza sizes might be a great thing to do.  Complicates the kitchen I suppose, but pretty cool for a group so you would have individual size and family size, so to speak.

Or just make it per slice and rename it slice. 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, dsukid said:

Well point one is a success clearly. It took 50 minutes just now for the first guest on Sapphire to go to Alfredos after they opened this morning. 

 

On point two unless somebody not in evidence is buying plus or premium due to casual dining their revenue has to be down. 

Isn't today a port day?

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

You can complain to guest services and you can even meet privately with the hotel director... maybe even the Captain if you're a squeaky enough wheel, but they're only responding to orders from corporate. The hotel director can personally be against all the changes, but good luck getting them to override what corporate says.

 

People that think complaining to guest services will accomplish anything are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Accomplish everything no.

 

Occasionally getting a positive response to a reasonable discussion. Particularly one about the timing of a change. yes. Have done so in the past successfully.

Edited August 20, 2023 by ldtr

[Steelers36]

43 minutes ago, ldtr said:

One of the problems with updates with this kind of change is that there is no single implementation date.

 

Would have been better to say as of X date these changes will be made and to put the changes 90 days out.  If these were considered to be significant changes pretty sure that is how they would have done it.

 

Since they do not consider them significant.  They likely would not have made an announcement at all.  However these changes are largely to change behavior and encourage the purchase of packages.  As such the announcement was made to show the changes in packages an to do that they did need to mention the charges for those not buying packages.

 

The main reason that they are not significant is that the costs are optional and there are alternatives that do not involve costs.

 

I know, but part of an implementation or change like this is to make sure the website pages reflect the new reality.  I am not convinced they will get to them all for many months.  At the risk of opening an old wound (and I was happy with the change), I cannot tell you how long after MedallionNet came to be sold by the day that the website indicated Platinum/Elite got free minutes when you opened up certain documentation.  Bottom line - it's just sloppy business.

[dsukid]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Isn't today a port day?

In all fairness yes, but it was barely busier the day prior in Glacier Bay.