Israel Next week Voyager

[labonnevie]

1 hour ago, carMOM said:

Interesting that they are not showing the second half of the cruise on the revised itinerary!  

The email states “The modified portion of the itinerary…”

[Golf Mad Girl]

RE: new changes to ports on the Navigator Nov 10th..

The Greek islands will be like it was in the 60s ..no crowds nor 5 cruise ships in ports.  I think it will be great!  Israel will always be there (hopefully) so there is another cruise op. in the future. Now how about %25 cc???

 

[labonnevie]

21 minutes ago, Golf Mad Girl said:

RE: new changes to ports on the Navigator Nov 10th..

The Greek islands will be like it was in the 60s ..no crowds nor 5 cruise ships in ports.  I think it will be great!  Israel will always be there (hopefully) so there is another cruise op. in the future. Now how about %25 cc???

 

Actually, it appears there will be at least one other much larger ship with us in each of the Greek ports. 😒

[CrushIt]

3 hours ago, roninman said:

 

It would be up to a jury to decide what is puffery and what is misrepresentation, hypothetically speaking, but if the latter is found a contract can be voidable.   But if a foreign company is doing business in your geography, you can  bring an action against them locally.   If contracts were universally self-explanatory and self-executing, there would be no need for contract suits, and then where would we all be?  And of course not saying any of this applies here, and I'm certainly no lawyer.

 

The most reasonable takeaways seem to be:  a) Go on a cruise full of hope  b) Go on the cruise as a magical mystery tour and be surprised if it goes where it said, c) Book a cruise at the very last minute to ensure no pre-cruise changes,  d) Give up cruise vacations altogether.  

 

Since the contract is so heavily one-sided, as a minimum we should give up our hard-earned dollars with our eyes wide open.

 

 

 

 

Agreed. So, is there anything in the Regent contract that prevents them from doing right by those passengers who cancelled? When we sailed with Regent’s Athens to Athens cruise in 2018, our last stop before returning to Athens was Mykonos. Because Mykonos had no large ship docking facility, it was to be accessed by launch. As we were arriving, the crew decided that the winds were too high and it would not be feasible to use the small boats to get us to shore. No big deal. We had already seen three Greek islands by that time, plus Ephesus  
The loss of two full days in Israel and two in Egypt is an entirely different situation. Again -not blaming Regent for making the decisions to cnx those ports. But what is the right thing to do for those whose main purpose for this cruise was those four days of tours and the tour of Pompeii?

[rallydave]

35 minutes ago, CrushIt said:

Agreed. So, is there anything in the Regent contract that prevents them from doing right by those passengers who cancelled? When we sailed with Regent’s Athens to Athens cruise in 2018, our last stop before returning to Athens was Mykonos. Because Mykonos had no large ship docking facility, it was to be accessed by launch. As we were arriving, the crew decided that the winds were too high and it would not be feasible to use the small boats to get us to shore. No big deal. We had already seen three Greek islands by that time, plus Ephesus  
The loss of two full days in Israel and two in Egypt is an entirely different situation. Again -not blaming Regent for making the decisions to cnx those ports. But what is the right thing to do for those whose main purpose for this cruise was those four days of tours and the tour of Pompeii?

Nothing in the contract prevents regent from doing anything they are not responsible for. 
 

they have made things right in the past but for this cruise have decided to follow the letter of the contract. 

[taxare]

As a frequent Regent cruiser and someone who five days ago was blessed to safely return from Israel after a very short land tour cancelled due to the hostilities I find this thread very interesting and I am sorry that Regent and the situation has caused so much angst and disappointment. I just saw this in the news, and while I personally would not sail on Royal Carribean I congratulate them on this effort by them:

 

A Royal Caribbean International cruise ship helped evacuate U.S. nationals from Israel on Monday.

The line’s Rhapsody of the Seas vessel had been sailing in the region but canceled its itineraries in the wake of the Israel-Hamas war. 

“Now, with enhanced safety precautions in place, our ship is providing free passage, including accommodation and food, for Americans in the region wishing to leave and find safer ground,” Jason Liberty, president and CEO of the line’s parent company Royal Caribbean Group, said in an email to employees that was shared with USA TODAY.

The evacuation was conducted in partnership with the U.S. State Department, Liberty said. The U.S. Embassy in Israel said in a security alert Sunday that boarding would begin in order of arrival on Monday at 8:00 a.m. local time, and the ship would sail from Haifa to Limassol, Cyprus.

 

 

 

[cwn]

21 minutes ago, taxare said:

As a frequent Regent cruiser and someone who five days ago was blessed to safely return from Israel after a very short land tour cancelled due to the hostilities I find this thread very interesting and I am sorry that Regent and the situation has caused so much angst and disappointment. I just saw this in the news, and while I personally would not sail on Royal Carribean I congratulate them on this effort by them:

 

A Royal Caribbean International cruise ship helped evacuate U.S. nationals from Israel on Monday.

The line’s Rhapsody of the Seas vessel had been sailing in the region but canceled its itineraries in the wake of the Israel-Hamas war. 

“Now, with enhanced safety precautions in place, our ship is providing free passage, including accommodation and food, for Americans in the region wishing to leave and find safer ground,” Jason Liberty, president and CEO of the line’s parent company Royal Caribbean Group, said in an email to employees that was shared with USA TODAY.

The evacuation was conducted in partnership with the U.S. State Department, Liberty said. The U.S. Embassy in Israel said in a security alert Sunday that boarding would begin in order of arrival on Monday at 8:00 a.m. local time, and the ship would sail from Haifa to Limassol, Cyprus.

 

 

 

What is wonderful for RCL to use the Rhapsody for the evacuation and housing of foreign nationals. I read they were beginning taken out by sea today. This makes perfect sense as the Rhapsody was using Haifa as a home port and  doing 4/5 day round trip sailings from Haifa to Crete which were canceled.

Carnival has used their Gulf Coast home ported ships in this way during the recovery from bad hurricanes in the past.

[HotelSnob1]

10 hours ago, labonnevie said:

Glad you made it, enjoy every minute. 
One question please. We have heard that taxi drop off at the new Galataport is a looong way from the ship. As we have some mobility issues, is this true and how far/bad is it. Are there porters and/or wheelchairs available?

Also, while in Istanbul, did you need to use Turkish lira everywhere? Could you tip in euros or usd?

Thank you and again enjoy, you deserve it!

We took a driver from our hotel that put us right at the entry to the port. There were porters at this entry (it’s a security entry) wandering around.  My suggestion would be to hire a reputable driver  and tell him you will need a porter.  That way he may be able to call or keep on the lookout while he is jockeying for a spot to drop you off.  And your porter will take u right to the ship. They should be able to get you a wheelchair, too.  The new port is beautiful, clean and safe.

We did everything in euros. 
Fun fact:  We woke up today with big wind and seas today … captain made the tough call to skip Mykonos - too risky for the tenders … 

[Golf Mad Girl]

6 hours ago, labonnevie said:

Actually, it appears there will be at least one other much larger ship with us in each of the Greek ports. 😒

🥲

[HotelSnob1]

1 hour ago, HotelSnob1 said:

We took a driver from our hotel that put us right at the entry to the port. There were porters at this entry (it’s a security entry) wandering around.  My suggestion would be to hire a reputable driver  and tell him you will need a porter.  That way he may be able to call or keep on the lookout while he is jockeying for a spot to drop you off.  And your porter will take u right to the ship. They should be able to get you a wheelchair, too.  The new port is beautiful, clean and safe.

We did everything in euros. 
Fun fact:  We woke up today with big wind and seas today … captain made the tough call to skip Mykonos - too risky for the tenders … 

I am sorry that I did not answer your question about the ship being a long way to walk to after a taxi dropped us off.  Honestly, it wasn’t long after we got thru the security ( which is actually right at the curb where the taxi dropped us off). Just make sure your taxi grabs a porter for you, and you will be just fine.  It is a beautiful cruise port.  And seamless, just take your time and all will be well. 

[HotelSnob1]

At this moment , I can tell you I am sitting by the pool, hearing laughter all around, Tony is on the keyboards serenading us, Voyager is doing a calm 8 knots in the gorgeous Aegean Sea, beautiful weather, stunning blue sky and peaceful light wind.

Bon Voyage! 

[Lonedaddy]

10 minutes ago, HotelSnob1 said:

At this moment , I can tell you I am sitting by the pool, hearing laughter all around, Tony is on the keyboards serenading us, Voyager is doing a calm 8 knots in the gorgeous Aegean Sea, beautiful weather, stunning blue sky and peaceful light wind.

Bon Voyage! 

Right there with you.  At this point hard not to enjoy the weather and the service.

[olga1900]

Lone daddy, and others I missed meeting.

Right there with you.  At this point hard not to enjoy the weather and the service.

I assume you are on the ship. 
recall I cancelled then notice of no refund.

my TA was set on working this for us and old us to hold off insurance papers.

i got a notice from Regent this morning offering   The 25%  future deal decide in a year, sail in two.

 

My TA will have to explain this to us. 

 FAIR WINDS

Larry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pcardad]

2 hours ago, olga1900 said:

Lone daddy, and others I missed meeting.

Right there with you.  At this point hard not to enjoy the weather and the service.

I assume you are on the ship. 
recall I cancelled then notice of no refund.

my TA was set on working this for us and old us to hold off insurance papers.

i got a notice from Regent this morning offering   The 25%  future deal decide in a year, sail in two.

 

My TA will have to explain this to us. 

 FAIR WINDS

Larry

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have Future Cruise Credit. You have1 year to make a booking and apply the credit and the sailing must be within 2 years now.

[zak477]

We too got the revised itinerary for our November 10th cruise on the Navigator. So many Greek Islands  added. We Never would have booked this cruise due to the abundance of Greek ports. After at least 4 cruises to the various Greek Islands over the years, we are always told due to rough seas we will have a sea day.  Now, the rest of the itinerary currently is unchanged. 

With my TA and his behind the scenes contact at Regent we had a three way conversation with my TA asking my questions: 1. Regent never mentioned the refunds for the overland tours, why? We are working on it but nothing in writing as of yet, when. 2. Is Egypt going to be cancelled? They are currently just talking about it and waiting if the was escalates. 3. Can we be offered a full FCC to be added to another Regent Cruise booked within a short period of time? We are platinum members and use Regent now almost exclusively several times a yr. The response to this question was yes it has been discussed but no action or offers will be made until closer to the sail date. 

Oh and if you look at this sailing offer on the Regent website, more and more suite categories are opening up and their "waitlist" has been removed !! Why so many available suites at this late day?!

Also some sloppy IT cleanup. They removed Israel from the itinerary but they still show the overland tours of Israel being offered!!  Is anyone minding the ship? No pun intended.

 

[HotelSnob1]

Used our FCC to book a future cruise while we are onboard right now.  It was a no-brainer.  Service has been fabulous! 

[Lrob]

Zak477 - we are on this cruise as well. We have been to Greek Isles many times on land based trips. We would prefer to change cruises and would do so immediately if allowed to transfer booking to another cruise. It would be lovely if Regent would do the right thing on this one. While I always expected Israel ports may not happen, I did not expect something with this intensity. Even thought the odds favor a safe trip, it won’t be enjoyable given all the circumstances. 
 

 

[papaflamingo]

12 minutes ago, Lrob said:

Zak477 - we are on this cruise as well. We have been to Greek Isles many times on land based trips. We would prefer to change cruises and would do so immediately if allowed to transfer booking to another cruise. It would be lovely if Regent would do the right thing on this one. While I always expected Israel ports may not happen, I did not expect something with this intensity. Even thought the odds favor a safe trip, it won’t be enjoyable given all the circumstances. 
 

 

At the risk of getting totally flamed, a lot of people have been calling for Regent to "do the right thing."  Why is Regent responsible to take a gigantic financial hit because of a  war that breaks out in Israel?  We were supposed to be on the current Voyager cruise and I got Covid on the day we were to leave for Athens.  No one has considered that this cruise wasn't JUST Haifa to Rome, it was also Athens to Rome.  So a significant number of passengers boarded before the war started.  What about them?  Should they also get 100% refund?  Should Regent have offered them the opportunity to disembark in Istanbul and get a free trip home along with a huge refund?  And what about other cruises that lose ports for weather or other reasons?  We did Montreal to Southampton last year and one of our major goals was to see Greenland.  Greenland cancelled for torrential rain and 50 kt winds.  So..no Greenland.  Should we have been offered a full refund because the ports we wanted to visit canceled for reasons beyond Regent's control?  

Sorry, I know this will ruffle a lot of feathers, but when you book a cruise there is a contractual understanding that you may not get to the ports you want.  My wife and I discussed that when we booked this one.  We knew going in, given the historic instability of the region, that we may not get to either Israel or Egypt.  We knew we were taking that risk and were wiling to accept it.  If you want a guarantee to see a port, you need to book a land tour, NEVER a cruise.  

How can any of this be Regent (or any other cruise line's) fault?  Why are they responsible to accept such a huge financial loss because they can't get into a couple of ports and, as per their contract, substitute new ports?  

[cwn]

7 minutes ago, papaflamingo said:

At the risk of getting totally flamed, a lot of people have been calling for Regent to "do the right thing."  Why is Regent responsible to take a gigantic financial hit because of a  war that breaks out in Israel?  We were supposed to be on the current Voyager cruise and I got Covid on the day we were to leave for Athens.  No one has considered that this cruise wasn't JUST Haifa to Rome, it was also Athens to Rome.  So a significant number of passengers boarded before the war started.  What about them?  Should they also get 100% refund?  Should Regent have offered them the opportunity to disembark in Istanbul and get a free trip home along with a huge refund?  And what about other cruises that lose ports for weather or other reasons?  We did Montreal to Southampton last year and one of our major goals was to see Greenland.  Greenland cancelled for torrential rain and 50 kt winds.  So..no Greenland.  Should we have been offered a full refund because the ports we wanted to visit canceled for reasons beyond Regent's control?  

Sorry, I know this will ruffle a lot of feathers, but when you book a cruise there is a contractual understanding that you may not get to the ports you want.  My wife and I discussed that when we booked this one.  We knew going in, given the historic instability of the region, that we may not get to either Israel or Egypt.  We knew we were taking that risk and were wiling to accept it.  If you want a guarantee to see a port, you need to book a land tour, NEVER a cruise.  

How can any of this be Regent (or any other cruise line's) fault?  Why are they responsible to accept such a huge financial loss because they can't get into a couple of ports and, as per their contract, substitute new ports?  

This amazes me also. What ports did the complainers think Regent would substitute for missed ports in Israel and Egypt if there was unrest. It isn’t the first time there has been a problem in that part of the world.  It is not the first time ports have been changed at the last minute and the changes are always in the general area….. in this case the Greek Islands. And apparently people are having a beautiful cruise.
 

No one forced anybody to go on the cruise if they didn’t like/ have been to the new ports. But they did sign the contract that allowed this. And they freely chose not to take cancel for any reason insurance that would have covered some of the lost trip cost, yes the insurance cost more and doesn’t cover everything Just 75%. Regent is offering 25% FCC to everyone. Since Covid onward that seems to be standard when something really goes side ways.

 

And if you you went on the cruise  regardless of the ports the ship is going, the crew to give it their best! It is up to you to enjoy it or make yourself miserable.

[Lrob]

No feathers ruffled. All points of view welcome. I agree about the ports bit. My issue is not with missing ports. Been there and done that so I get it. It is with the generalized uncertainty/ instability in the travel route that must be taken as this is a world cruise to get to Dubai. Through the Suez, Down the Red Sea and up the Straight of Hormuz. The Voyager was never going this route. 
 

I have been to many of these places on land so I am not fussed about the normal general ME uncertainty. This is a bit more than anyone could reasonably have expected. My note on the Greek ports was an aside. It was not meant as a reason to allow changing the cruise. I can see how the comment did distract from my point. 

 

If the ship skipped Egypt and Jordan ports due to safety that would not be my gripe. I can always stay on the boat if I wish to anyway. I do agree that is always the risk of cruising. I knew when booking that Israel is hit or miss. No issue with that. My point was that given the current circumstances, the travel route itself will not be so enjoyable for me. Others mileage may vary,  but I suspect I am not alone.

 

Of course this isn’t Regent’s fault. I also never suggested they should compensate airfare as that would be unreasonable under the circumstances. I also never suggested a refund - again that would be unreasonable. I haven’t even hinted at a partial refund. Simply suggesting to rebook on another cruise. I understand contracts and I know what I am getting into when I sign one. By the right thing I simply mean a compromise they do not have to make for long term goodwill in an understanding of this unusual situation. It is done all the time in many businesses relationships.

 

I hope you don’t get flamed! If you do I will give you my fire extinguisher. Many valid points to be made on both sides of the argument. 

[labonnevie]

On 10/16/2023 at 4:10 PM, Golf Mad Girl said:

RE: new changes to ports on the Navigator Nov 10th..

The Greek islands will be like it was in the 60s ..no crowds nor 5 cruise ships in ports.  I think it will be great!  Israel will always be there (hopefully) so there is another cruise op. in the future. Now how about %25 cc???

 

Update to my previous post, I am happy to report I was wrong. The cruise ship schedule for Santorini does NOT show another ship in port on November 14th! How nice would that be!

[cwn]

3 hours ago, Lrob said:

No feathers ruffled. All points of view welcome. I agree about the ports bit. My issue is not with missing ports. Been there and done that so I get it. It is with the generalized uncertainty/ instability in the travel route that must be taken as this is a world cruise to get to Dubai. Through the Suez, Down the Red Sea and up the Straight of Hormuz. The Voyager was never going this route. 
 

I have been to many of these places on land so I am not fussed about the normal general ME uncertainty. This is a bit more than anyone could reasonably have expected. My note on the Greek ports was an aside. It was not meant as a reason to allow changing the cruise. I can see how the comment did distract from my point. 

 

If the ship skipped Egypt and Jordan ports due to safety that would not be my gripe. I can always stay on the boat if I wish to anyway. I do agree that is always the risk of cruising. I knew when booking that Israel is hit or miss. No issue with that. My point was that given the current circumstances, the travel route itself will not be so enjoyable for me. Others mileage may vary,  but I suspect I am not alone.

 

Of course this isn’t Regent’s fault. I also never suggested they should compensate airfare as that would be unreasonable under the circumstances. I also never suggested a refund - again that would be unreasonable. I haven’t even hinted at a partial refund. Simply suggesting to rebook on another cruise. I understand contracts and I know what I am getting into when I sign one. By the right thing I simply mean a compromise they do not have to make for long term goodwill in an understanding of this unusual situation. It is done all the time in many businesses relationships.

 

I hope you don’t get flamed! If you do I will give you my fire extinguisher. Many valid points to be made on both sides of the argument. 

Thanks for the offer🤣.

actually the Israel cruise we canceled just before final payment (couldn’t change air so did a strange/fun land trip to India and Germany) was the reverse of your itinerary but starting in Mumbai and ending in Rome I think. HD didn’t trust the canal passage and the unrest in the area… the trouble had just stirred up. Actually we did the Suez Canal part a few years later… it is really very interesting! But Israel was still not to popular/safe for tourist. That whole area can be a tender box and tricky for cruise travel. In ‘15 we were on a little Seabourn sister (the one that out ran the pirates on an earlier cruise) Dubai to Istanbul. We lost a port because we had to travel in a blacked out convoy with tankers and such. We had a US Navy ship beside us and US Navy heli circling around the convoy. We also missed out refueling stop and had to refuel in Saudi Arabia. That whole trip was  most interesting😮😀!!

As far as the rest of this discussion is. concerned…Regent is probably not giving a refund  or a free future cruise in bad situations (beyond the cruise company’s control like this unless they do not sail),  basically per contract. I don’t think it will make much difference. Regent sailed a altered cruise and gave a 25% FCC. Yes some will leave Regent over this decision, but there are many more possible cruisers out there that will fill the berths. I think the bigger concern for Regent is getting to big (too many ships and bigger ships) to orovide the personal service we find now on the ships. Already I feel that some of this “specialness” is lost in the glitter of the new ships. Only time will tell. It has happened to many business.

Edited October 19, 2023 by cwn

[CrushIt]

3 hours ago, papaflamingo said:

At the risk of getting totally flamed, a lot of people have been calling for Regent to "do the right thing."  Why is Regent responsible to take a gigantic financial hit because of a  war that breaks out in Israel?  We were supposed to be on the current Voyager cruise and I got Covid on the day we were to leave for Athens.  No one has considered that this cruise wasn't JUST Haifa to Rome, it was also Athens to Rome.  So a significant number of passengers boarded before the war started.  What about them?  Should they also get 100% refund?  Should Regent have offered them the opportunity to disembark in Istanbul and get a free trip home along with a huge refund?  And what about other cruises that lose ports for weather or other reasons?  We did Montreal to Southampton last year and one of our major goals was to see Greenland.  Greenland cancelled for torrential rain and 50 kt winds.  So..no Greenland.  Should we have been offered a full refund because the ports we wanted to visit canceled for reasons beyond Regent's control?  

Sorry, I know this will ruffle a lot of feathers, but when you book a cruise there is a contractual understanding that you may not get to the ports you want.  My wife and I discussed that when we booked this one.  We knew going in, given the historic instability of the region, that we may not get to either Israel or Egypt.  We knew we were taking that risk and were wiling to accept it.  If you want a guarantee to see a port, you need to book a land tour, NEVER a cruise.  

How can any of this be Regent (or any other cruise line's) fault?  Why are they responsible to accept such a huge financial loss because they can't get into a couple of ports and, as per their contract, substitute new ports?  

I don’t recall anyone claiming that it was Regent’s fault that the war broke out. But, you are comparing apples to oranges. I have not read a single post where a passenger said that they would have booked this cruise the way it turned out. We’ve been on a cruise where a port was cancelled, too. However, this was not just “a couple of ports”. This was the four out of ten days that over-sold the cruise. Not only that; the four days of shore excursions, for us, amounted to over half of the excursion time. 

I’ve also not seen anyone argue, within reason, the legality of what Regent has done or not done. That entire region of the world is in trouble and it breaks out hearts to see the suffering. The issue, as I see it, is that Regent forged ahead, “hell bent for leather” to get this cruise out of port so that they could claim that they completed “A Cruise”. There was plenty of evidence as early as last Monday that Egypt was not going to go. They waited until many passengers were on the way or committed to go before cancelling Egypt. Istanbul is now part of the problem with massive protests and more to come. So, thank heaven that people boarded and headed out when they could.

People cruise for different reasons. Some several times a year and some only on occasion. If Regent had been honest in the beginning and said “Hey, Israel is cancelled. We’re close to pulling the plug on Egypt. The government of Turkey is sketchy. We don’t really know how much of this cruise is going to turn out the way we planned. So, here are your options, the best of which is a full credit on a future cruise …..” How many of us would not have said “Sure, sign me up”. 

“The Right Thing” is in the eye of the beholder. But, generally most adults know instinctively what it is. There is no obligation on the part of Regent to do anything other than the letter of the contract. But, if they want to operate on a higher moral and ethical level, there are choices they can make. It’s really as simple as that.

Bon Voyage to all

[rallydave]

Seems to me a fair compromise for both the passengers and regent would be for regent to come up with the price that the new Greek island cruise would be thrn subtract that number from the price people payed for the Israel Egypt  cruise and refund that difference for each passenger. 
 

Regdnt would cover the cruise they are providing and the passengers would be paying for the actual cruise they are taking. 

[cwn]

7 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Seems to me a fair compromise for both the passengers and regent would be for regent to come up with the price that the new Greek island cruise would be thrn subtract that number from the price people payed for the Israel Egypt  cruise and refund that difference for each passenger. 
 

Regdnt would cover the cruise they are providing and the passengers would be paying for the actual cruise they are taking. 

Maybe that’s where the 25% FCC figure came from.?

My Mana just to tell me if wishes were horses beggars would ride.🤣