OCEANIA HELL: A reason to use another cruise line.

[TRLD]

11 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

 

As strange as you may think it is, it is true, in almost 3 months, Oceania has failed to provide documentation of payment or non payment of this invoice. Our fear is that they will eventually send us the invoice but after the year long window allowed for making claims set by the three insurance companies that could conceivably cover our claim. Hence leaving us essentially without insurance coverage and fully responsible for the bill. 

We appear to be talking past each other.  You keep talking about documentation of payment.  I am asking something more basic, have you been invoiced, not by PAF but by Oceania?

 

Have they provided an invoice to you indicating that you owe the amount to Oceania. If so have you submitted it to the insurance company.   If not have you requested such an invoice from Oceania.

 

 

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

For those of you who have suggested engaging an attorney to advocate for our cause, it would be more than helpful and gratefully appreciated if you could provide a name or contact of an attorney who would do so as we have been unable to find one who would. 

 

You are a very far distance from us, many states away.  So any attorneys we use (in two states) wouldn't be helpful for work in a third, different state where they are not licensed.

 

All I can say is that we have used attorneys at various times (for things more complicated or urgent than a real estate closing, for example) and we've never found it impossible to get help with a sort of demand letter, even if it isn't [yet!?] a demand for money itself.

Note that in some cases, this does provide back up should there be claims later, plus it can indeed create the impetus for *someone* to start the ball rolling......

 

I do agree that it could be exceedingly helpful if you could get your narrative into some bullet points, and without trashing NCL et. al.  Trash them here, or later elsewhere, but *not* in the narrative that you need to show an attorney to explain your situation.  And also try *very* hard not to trash them in the first meeting with any attorney.  Otherwise, they may well miss the forest for the trees... 

(And use just a few of the *most* important aspects when you call to make an appointment.  Otherwise, they will have trouble figuring out what type of situation this really is.  Is it medical?  Personal Injury?  Financial, and if so, what kind....?  Don't overlook the fact that *many* of us here have mentioned that we ARE having difficulty keeping track of the full scenario.  And look how much time/effort has been expended, but us AND BY YOU.  One concise list/summary would have helped us a lot.)

 

[To assist you with that, keep in mind that attorneys charge by the hour or minute, etc.  As I was told once, it might be less expensive to do the "complaining" to a shrink or friend, and focus on the legal issues 'here'.  Yes indeedy! 😉 ]

 

GC

[ldubs]

37 minutes ago, TRLD said:

In going back and readying it I cannot not find anywhere that he has said that he has not received an invoice from the cruise line, only that he has not received proof that they paid the PAF.  He has stated that they have said that they have paid it, but has not said if he received an invoice.  That is why I am asking exactly what specific proof his company wants.  In any case I have encountered the insurance has been willing to accept an invoice from a travel company stating what was still owed.  

 

 

 

Post #71.  

 

I agree with your comment on accepting a legitimate invoice.  The problem is apparently the insured has not received an invoice from the cruise line asking for reimbursement.  If previous comments are taken as stated, the insurer is in fact dealing directly with the cruise line.     

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

You are a very far distance from us, many states away.  So any attorneys we use (in two states) wouldn't be helpful for work in a third, different state where they are not licensed.

 

All I can say is that we have used attorneys at various times (for things more complicated or urgent than a real estate closing, for example) and we've never found it impossible to get help with a sort of demand letter, even if it isn't [yet!?] a demand for money itself.

Note that in some cases, this does provide back up should there be claims later, plus it can indeed create the impetus for *someone* to start the ball rolling......

 

I do agree that it could be exceedingly helpful if you could get your narrative into some bullet points, and without trashing NCL et. al.  Trash them here, or later elsewhere, but *not* in the narrative that you need to show an attorney to explain your situation.  And also try *very* hard not to trash them in the first meeting with any attorney.  Otherwise, they may well miss the forest for the trees... 

(And use just a few of the *most* important aspects when you call to make an appointment.  Otherwise, they will have trouble figuring out what type of situation this really is.  Is it medical?  Personal Injury?  Financial, and if so, what kind....?  Don't overlook the fact that *many* of us here have mentioned that we ARE having difficulty keeping track of the full scenario.  And look how much time/effort has been expended, but us AND BY YOU.  One concise list/summary would have helped us a lot.)

 

[To assist you with that, keep in mind that attorneys charge by the hour or minute, etc.  As I was told once, it might be less expensive to do the "complaining" to a shrink or friend, and focus on the legal issues 'here'.  Yes indeedy! 😉 ]

 

GC

 

Why does the OP need an attorney to get involved in a transaction between his insurer and Oceania?   Should Oceania not provide the documentation then they won't get paid.   What is the OP's exposure here?  Fact is as things stand with regards the PAF the OP has not experienced a loss.  

[Bongomauka]

20 minutes ago, TRLD said:

We appear to be talking past each other.  You keep talking about documentation of payment.  I am asking something more basic, have you been invoiced, not by PAF but by Oceania?

 

Have they provided an invoice to you indicating that you owe the amount to Oceania. If so have you submitted it to the insurance company.   If not have you requested such an invoice from Oceania.

 

 

No we have not. If we did we would not be in this predicament. We would simply refer the bill to our primary insurance directly which has informed us that they will pay or alternatively we would pay Oceania directly and submit the receipt to our primary insurance which again, they have indicated that they will pay. The block here is and continues to be an uncooperative Oceania cruise line. We have in the past almost 3 months repeatedly requested documentation of their payment to the Portuguese Air Force or documentation that they did not pay so our primary insurance can settle the bill to whomever it is owed. 

[Bongomauka]

11 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Why does the OP need an attorney to get involved in a transaction between his insurer and Oceania?   Should Oceania not provide the documentation then they won't get paid.   What is the OP's exposure here?  Fact is as things stand with regards the PAF the OP has not experienced a loss.  

In fact we are on the other side of the San Francisco Bay from you so a practicing attorney licensed in California would be well 

 

29 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

You are a very far distance from us, many states away.  So any attorneys we use (in two states) wouldn't be helpful for work in a third, different state where they are not licensed.

 

All I can say is that we have used attorneys at various times (for things more complicated or urgent than a real estate closing, for example) and we've never found it impossible to get help with a sort of demand letter, even if it isn't [yet!?] a demand for money itself.

Note that in some cases, this does provide back up should there be claims later, plus it can indeed create the impetus for *someone* to start the ball rolling......

 

I do agree that it could be exceedingly helpful if you could get your narrative into some bullet points, and without trashing NCL et. al.  Trash them here, or later elsewhere, but *not* in the narrative that you need to show an attorney to explain your situation.  And also try *very* hard not to trash them in the first meeting with any attorney.  Otherwise, they may well miss the forest for the trees... 

(And use just a few of the *most* important aspects when you call to make an appointment.  Otherwise, they will have trouble figuring out what type of situation this really is.  Is it medical?  Personal Injury?  Financial, and if so, what kind....?  Don't overlook the fact that *many* of us here have mentioned that we ARE having difficulty keeping track of the full scenario.  And look how much time/effort has been expended, but us AND BY YOU.  One concise list/summary would have helped us a lot.)

 

[To assist you with that, keep in mind that attorneys charge by the hour or minute, etc.  As I was told once, it might be less expensive to do the "complaining" to a shrink or friend, and focus on the legal issues 'here'.  Yes indeedy! 😉 ]

 

GC

Your comment regarding attorney location seems odd given the cruise line is based in Florida and I’m located in California. So what location should the attorney practice in?

[GeezerCouple]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

Why does the OP need an attorney to get involved in a transaction between his insurer and Oceania?   Should Oceania not provide the documentation then they won't get paid.   What is the OP's exposure here?  Fact is as things stand with regards the PAF the OP has not experienced a loss.  

 

Oh, I agree that OP should NOT "need" an attorney.

But for whatever reason, this seems somehow quite complicated now.

And OP is reasonably concerned that they may end up being held responsible for what may well be a moderately large sum, one that most of us never actually see, as most governments don't bill the patient being medevac'd off a ship.  >> Or so I assumed before hearing about a bill from the Portugese authorities anyway.

 

I have no idea if there was another way to handle this from the start.

[One thought I had is that *IF* Kaiser is, I think (?), a health provider rather than a "travel insurance company", then this claim may be quite different than what most of us deal with for travel insurance claims.  But that may not be the case anyway.]

 

GC

[Bongomauka]

17 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Why does the OP need an attorney to get involved in a transaction between his insurer and Oceania?   Should Oceania not provide the documentation then they won't get paid.   What is the OP's exposure here?  Fact is as things stand with regards the PAF the OP has not experienced a loss.  

The issue is that if Oceania does not provide us with documentation of payment or nonpayment, our insurance companies will not cover the bill for the service. When Oceania does finally bill us, it will be past the one year deadline to make a claim resulting in our having to pay the full amount in spite of more than adequate insurance coverage for this claim if Oceania had supplied the documentation in a reasonably timely manner. 

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

In fact we are on the other side of the San Francisco Bay from you so a practicing attorney licensed in California would be well 

 

 

I'm sorry to belabor this but what do you want an attorney to do?  Your insurer is working directly with Oceania regarding the PAF reimbursement.  If needed or desired I'm sure Kaiser's law department can send any number of letters.   Have they asked for your involvement?   

[Bongomauka]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm sorry to belabor this but what do you want an attorney to do?  Your insurer is working directly with Oceania regarding the PAF reimbursement.  If needed or desired I'm sure Kaiser's law department can send any number of letters.   Have they asked for your involvement?   

 

2 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Oh, I agree that OP should NOT "need" an attorney.

But for whatever reason, this seems somehow quite complicated now.

And OP is reasonably concerned that they may end up being held responsible for what may well be a moderately large sum, one that most of us never actually see, as most governments don't bill the patient being medevac'd off a ship.  >> Or so I assumed before hearing about a bill from the Portugese authorities anyway.

 

I have no idea if there was another way to handle this from the start.

[One thought I had is that *IF* Kaiser is, I think (?), a health provider rather than a "travel insurance company", then this claim may be quite different than what most of us deal with for travel insurance claims.  But that may not be the case anyway.]

 

GC

Kaiser is our primary healthcare provider and has agreed to pay the claim. We also have travelers insurance which also would cover the claim. It is not an insurance issue rather the lack of cooperation of Oceania that is complicating the process and threatening our ability to use any of our insurance policies to cover the claim. 

[GeezerCouple]

2 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

 

Kaiser is our primary healthcare provider and has agreed to pay the claim. We also have travelers insurance which also would cover the claim. It is not an insurance issue rather the lack of cooperation of Oceania that is complicating the process and threatening our ability to use any of our insurance policies to cover the claim. 

 

Would your travel insurer be more useful?

What have they said about this?

 

GC

[Bongomauka]

5 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm sorry to belabor this but what do you want an attorney to do?  Your insurer is working directly with Oceania regarding the PAF reimbursement.  If needed or desired I'm sure Kaiser's law department can send any number of letters.   Have they asked for your involvement?   

It is other posters who are encouraging us to engage an attorney which we have unsuccessfully attempted to do. Our insurer is waiting for documents promised by Oceania but neither are incentivized to move the process along where we are as we are the ones who will suffer from the delay not our insurance company or Oceania. I suspect Kaiser would much rather let the deadline pass and then be no longer obliged to honor the claim and let us foot the bill. 

[Bongomauka]

1 minute ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Would your travel insurer be more useful?

What have they said about this?

 

GC

As I have written previously, our travelers insurance will take no action till our primary insurance denies the claim. They have not this because the claim is still open pending Oceania’s submission of the requested documents. 

[GeezerCouple]

1 minute ago, Bongomauka said:

As I have written previously, our travelers insurance will take no action till our primary insurance denies the claim. They have not this because the claim is still open pending Oceania’s submission of the requested documents. 

 

This isn't any help now for you, but we did encounter a much lesser snafu.

And we now ALWAYS get travel insurance that is "primary", meaning no other insurer needs to deny any claim first.

Huge difference!

 

GC

[ldubs]

19 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

The issue is that if Oceania does not provide us with documentation of payment or nonpayment, our insurance companies will not cover the bill for the service. When Oceania does finally bill us, it will be past the one year deadline to make a claim resulting in our having to pay the full amount in spite of more than adequate insurance coverage for this claim if Oceania had supplied the documentation in a reasonably timely manner. 

 

You don't need the documentation from Oceania.  Your insurer's claim adjuster needs that documentation.  

 

You have an existing open claim with your insurer.  You have met the deadline to file the claim.  For the second or third time, I suggest strongly you confirm with your insurer how this open claim will be treated should it take go beyond this "deadline" you are worried about.  I think you will like the answer.   Why Oceania would withhold documentation from your insurer who agrees to pay and then send you a bill is very strange.   So, to eliminate that stress, ask your insurer how the claim will be handled should Oceania send you an invoice for reimbursement sometime in the future.   I think you will find you are OK.   

Edited January 15 by ldubs

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

It is other posters who are encouraging us to engage an attorney which we have unsuccessfully attempted to do. Our insurer is waiting for documents promised by Oceania but neither are incentivized to move the process along where we are as we are the ones who will suffer from the delay not our insurance company or Oceania. I suspect Kaiser would much rather let the deadline pass and then be no longer obliged to honor the claim and let us foot the bill. 

 

See my other comment regarding the claim filing deadline.   I think you are misinterpreting your policy's language.   

[Bongomauka]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

 

You don't need the documentation from Oceania.  Your insurer's claim adjuster needs that documentation.  

 

You have an existing open claim with your insurer.  You have met the deadline to file the claim.  For the second or third time, I suggest strongly you confirm with your insurer how this open claim will be treated should it take go beyond this "deadline" you are worried about.  I think you will like the answer.   Why Oceania would withhold documentation from your insurer who agrees to pay and then send you a bill is very strange.   So, to eliminate that stress, ask your insurer how the claim will be handled should Oceania send you an invoice for reimbursement sometime in the future.   I think you will find you are OK.   

I hope you are correct but my trust in both insurance companies and Oceania has been severely tested n the past 9 months. By the way you are not correct. I do need documentation from Oceania. And I need that documentation to get to my insurer. What I don’t need is to end up paying for triple insurance coverage and not being able to use any of it to cover this expense. Oceania doesn’t need to give it too my insurer as they will hold me ultimately responsible for the bill My primary insurance doesn’t need the documentation because getting it means that they are responsible for paying the bill and I imagine would rather not be responsible. So you see I do need this documentation. 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Bongomauka said:

I hope you are correct but my trust in both insurance companies and Oceania has been severely tested n the past 9 months. By the way you are not correct. I do need documentation from Oceania. And I need that documentation to get to my insurer. What I don’t need is to end up paying for triple insurance coverage and not being able to use any of it to cover this expense. Oceania doesn’t need to give it too my insurer as they will hold me ultimately responsible for the bill My primary insurance doesn’t need the documentation because getting it means that they are responsible for paying the bill and I imagine would rather not be responsible. So you see I do need this documentation. 

 

You are going to jump to whatever conclusions you want.  I've tried to advise you what to ask to eliminate your concerns.  At this point I wish you well.   

[Bongomauka]

7 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

You are going to jump to whatever conclusions you want.  I've tried to advise you what to ask to eliminate your concerns.  At this point I wish you well.   

I’m not sure what you mean in regards to my jumping to conclusions but any case, I thank you for your input. 

[EJL2023]

20 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

I’m not sure what you mean in regards to my jumping to conclusions but any case, I thank you for your input. 

At this point I think you really need to spend less time here and fully concentrate on the issue at hand. Many people have provided input and you say you will do it and/or then drop another tidbit of information not previously shared to confuse the matter even more. Just a lot of ‘odd’ posts. One constant is your bashing of Oceania and as many have noted hard to tell who really is at fault at this point. And no….it will not make me reconsider cruising with Oceania because of a one off very unusual situation in which we may or may not be getting the whole story. Or at the very most just one side of the story. You may want to go update your file and remove Oceania as your favorite cruise line at this point. All my opinion above but I honestly think more to the story. And I hope your partner is doing fine and completely recovered. Thankfully it sounds as if the medical department on Oceania made  prompt and necessary decisions for your partner. 

[Mike07]

I'll be honest, I have no idea what the actual story is. OP seems to want to vent. That's fine and its healthy to some extent.

 

Believe it or not, it sometimes takes years to get insurance settlements in events like this as there is so much back and forth that has to go on.

Edited January 15 by Mike07

[TRLD]

9 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

It is other posters who are encouraging us to engage an attorney which we have unsuccessfully attempted to do. Our insurer is waiting for documents promised by Oceania but neither are incentivized to move the process along where we are as we are the ones who will suffer from the delay not our insurance company or Oceania. I suspect Kaiser would much rather let the deadline pass and then be no longer obliged to honor the claim and let us foot the bill. 

From what I have read here I understand that

 

1. You received an invoice from PAF, but that invoice was not sent directly to you, but was routed through the Insurance company that Oceania uses

 

2. You tried to pay the invoice, but the payment was returned

 

3. You have not received any invoice stating that you now owe Oceania

 

4. Oceania has told you that you should pay the amount to them, but nothing is in writing

 

5. Kaiser is your primary insurance and would cover evacuation

 

6. You have additional travel insurance that is secondary.  Is this the same travel insurance that Oceania offers or a different company? Is it the same company that forwarded the  PAF invoice to you?

 

What have I missed. depending if my understanding is correct and depending upon the answers above I have a couple of thoughts about what might be happening.

 

 

[Bongomauka]

4 minutes ago, TRLD said:

From what I have read here I understand that

 

1. You received an invoice from PAF, but that invoice was not sent directly to you, but was routed through the Insurance company that Oceania uses

 

2. You tried to pay the invoice, but the payment was returned

 

3. You have not received any invoice stating that you now owe Oceania

 

4. Oceania has told you that you should pay the amount to them, but nothing is in writing

 

5. Kaiser is your primary insurance and would cover evacuation

 

6. You have additional travel insurance that is secondary.  Is this the same travel insurance that Oceania offers or a different company? Is it the same company that forwarded the  PAF invoice to you?

 

What have I missed. depending if my understanding is correct and depending upon the answers above I have a couple of thoughts about what might be happening.

 

 

Thanks for your post. What you have outlined is correct except #4, Oceania has not yet asked us to pay, in fact we were advised not to pay by Oceania’s third party insurance agent as he could not guarantee that we would be able to get a receipt to use for reimbursement. #6. Yes we have additional travelers insurance which was purchased through our on line travel agency. It was Oceania that sent th

[Bongomauka]

Just now, Bongomauka said:

Thanks for your post. What you have outlined is correct except #4, Oceania has not yet asked us to pay, in fact we were advised not to pay by Oceania’s third party insurance agent as he could not guarantee that we would be able to get a receipt to use for reimbursement. #6. Yes we have additional travelers insurance which was purchased through our on line travel agency. It was Oceania that sent th

Sorry I pressed submit prematurely. #6 we purchased our travelers insurance from our online travel agency. It was Oceania who actually sent the PAF invoice to us through their third party insurance company processor. 
Thank you for responding and any thoughts you may have would be gratefully received. 

[Bongomauka]

1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

I'll be honest, I have no idea what the actual story is. OP seems to want to vent. That's fine and its healthy to some extent.

 

Believe it or not, it sometimes takes years to get insurance settlements in events like this as there is so much back and forth that has to go on.

Thank you for your post. I’m sure I am indeed venting. After 9 months of dealing with this almost daily, my frustration and anger has become second nature when I talk or write about this situation. I’m totally in agreement, with now firsthand experience, with insurance settlements taking years. What is most infuriating is that all of my insurance policies that would cover this claim expire after just one year and yet all parties involved insist on stalling the process, thereby threatening the loss of my coverage.