OCEANIA HELL: A reason to use another cruise line.

[Bongomauka]

1 minute ago, Psoque said:

I agree with this suggestion.

 

Now that the OPs situation was clarified, I can agree that the best course of action is the following:

1.  Contact the actual service provider that did the evacuation.  See if there is a bill or something that indicates what service was provided to whom and the amount charged.  Send that information to your primary insurer.

2.  Send the invoice from Oceania for the same service, and any supporting information (notes from the ships' medical center, describing the reasons for evacuation, etc.  I'm assuming that you already have the documentation from the medical center that was available to you before you disembarked.

 

Then contact your primary insurer to see if they need anything else.

 

I'm in healthcare, and most "normal" health insurance do not cover something like this.  The chances are, your primary health insurance will only cover part of it, it at all.  Whether they deny coverage (and they have every right to do this even after you submitted everything), you need that plus what I outlined above to your next insurance carrier (probably the policy with your credit card, if that's covered).  Then if that does not cover everything completely, you go to the next insurer, which is most likely your travel insurance company.  Yes, it is tedious, but as long as you know what to do, the rules are not too difficult to follow.

 

Finally, it is my understand as well that most policies do not reimburse you until you actually pay the bill yourself first.  If your primary (or secondary or tertiary) carrier agrees to do this (which, from my understanding, is very rare), you need a letter from them doing so, for your records, just in case the people you owe money starts asking you for payment.

 

I would not contact Oceania/NCL for anything unless you exactly know what your insurer needs, and for that matter, you might be able to get this accomplished without anything more from Oceania/NCL, which might be a better option.  The trick is to get this done with least number of parties involved.

Please read my most recent posting as it addresses most of your suggestions. 

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, Psoque said:

I agree with this suggestion.

 

Now that the OPs situation was clarified, I can agree that the best course of action is the following:

1.  Contact the actual service provider that did the evacuation.  See if there is a bill or something that indicates what service was provided to whom and the amount charged.  Send that information to your primary insurer.

2.  Send the invoice from Oceania for the same service, and any supporting information (notes from the ships' medical center, describing the reasons for evacuation, etc.  I'm assuming that you already have the documentation from the medical center that was available to you before you disembarked.

 

Then contact your primary insurer to see if they need anything else.

 

I'm in healthcare, and most "normal" health insurance do not cover something like this.  The chances are, your primary health insurance will only cover part of it, it at all.  Whether they deny coverage (and they have every right to do this even after you submitted everything), you need that plus what I outlined above to your next insurance carrier (probably the policy with your credit card, if that's covered).  Then if that does not cover everything completely, you go to the next insurer, which is most likely your travel insurance company.  Yes, it is tedious, but as long as you know what to do, the rules are not too difficult to follow.

 

Finally, it is my understand as well that most policies do not reimburse you until you actually pay the bill yourself first.  If your primary (or secondary or tertiary) carrier agrees to do this (which, from my understanding, is very rare), you need a letter from them doing so, for your records, just in case the people you owe money starts asking you for payment.

 

I would not contact Oceania/NCL for anything unless you exactly know what your insurer needs, and for that matter, you might be able to get this accomplished without anything more from Oceania/NCL, which might be a better option.  The trick is to get this done with least number of parties involved.

 

My goodness, do people not bother reading. 🙄

[EJL2023]

6 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Please read my most recent posting as it addresses most of your suggestions. 

It seems as Kaiser told you in November they will pay the claim with the Proof of Loss which you are attempting to obtain. It would appear they are also aware of the difficulties you have encountered attempting to obtain said documentation. You have noted a twelve month period or claim will be declined. Has the insurance company specifically advised you that claim will be denied if you are unable to provide said documentation by that date? In reality, they just advised you in November the claim would be covered, by chance that date actually starts the Proof of Loss documentation requirement? Understand you just want it over with and settled, but perhaps the twelve month period has some leeway considering the circumstances which they are clearly aware of and would potentially provide some anxiety relief with the twelve month issue. 

[Bongomauka]

54 minutes ago, EJL2023 said:

It seems as Kaiser told you in November they will pay the claim with the Proof of Loss which you are attempting to obtain. It would appear they are also aware of the difficulties you have encountered attempting to obtain said documentation. You have noted a twelve month period or claim will be declined. Has the insurance company specifically advised you that claim will be denied if you are unable to provide said documentation by that date? In reality, they just advised you in November the claim would be covered, by chance that date actually starts the Proof of Loss documentation requirement? Understand you just want it over with and settled, but perhaps the twelve month period has some leeway considering the circumstances which they are clearly aware of and would potentially provide some anxiety relief with the twelve month issue. 

Thank you for the suggestion. We will certainly inquire with the Kaiser insurance third party company representative to see if the time limitation of the claim has changed. 

[Vertygo]

2 hours ago, Psoque said:

I'm in healthcare, and most "normal" health insurance do not cover something like this. 

Not sure what you consider “normal” health insurance to be, but Kaiser Permanente is the largest HMO in the country.

They cover emergency health costs worldwide, less any expected copay for the specific service received. OP already stated their copay would be $200.

I had an ambulance/ER visit in Spain following an O cruise in 2018. Kaiser reimbursed all but $50, my normal copay for ER visits.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

I apologize for any confusion but I’m now confused about your question. NCL has claimed to have paid the Portuguese Air Force but since we are ultimately responsible for this bill, and our insurance will cover that bill, all we need is proof of this payment from NCL for our primary insurance to pay. Without this proof they will not and since the deadline for claims for all of our insurance coverage (including our travel insurance) is one year (yes we have been dealing with this for almost one year) we would ultimately end up paying the bill ourselves in spite of our extensive insurance coverage. I assure you that this bill is quite a bit more than a new fence. 

 

Is this invoice from NCL?  In other words, they paid the fee and are now invoicing you for reimbursement?  

 

Seems to me you already have a claim open so the filling time condition has been met.  You should confirm this with your insurer and make sure you have a claim number  (both the domestic health insurer and the travel insurance).  

 

I hope you get this resolved.  

Edited January 13 by ldubs

[AMHuntFerry]

3 hours ago, Bongomauka said:

We have the original invoice from the Portuguese Air Force. There is a customer number and an invoice number but no incident number.

Can you call the customer number and request a copy of the invoice? My spouse is PR for an estate with a less-than-cooperative spouse. We have had to obtain invoices directly from providers in order to administer the estate, and they always either have a balance due or something indicating "Paid" (like an electronic stamp). It seems to me that a current invoice from the Portuguese Air Force indicating "Paid" or a balance due would be sufficient to move forward. Good luck!

[Bongomauka]

23 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Is this invoice from NCL?  In other words, they paid the fee and are now invoicing you for reimbursement?  

 

Seems to me you already have a claim open so the filling time condition has been met.  You should confirm this with your insurer and make sure you have a claim number  (both the domestic health insurer and the travel insurance).  

 

I hope you get this resolved.  

Thank you for your support. The invoice is from the Portuguese Air Force who performed the helicopter evacuation from our cruise ship. We’re concerned that since NCL claims to have paid but has offered absolutely no documentation, we will be stuck with the bill in spite of having several layers of insurance protection. The filing time is not the issue. All of our insurance companies have a one year window for resolution which we are fast approaching since it’s taken nearly 3 months for NCL to send us any documentation. This documentation is needed by the insurance companies for them to cover the evacuation costs. Should the window close and we have not received documentation from NCL, our medical insurance, our travelers insurance and our credit card insurance policies will no longer cover the evacuation costs. We will then have to pay out of pocket in spite of all our insurance coverage. All because NCL is more concerned about taking our money for the cruise but doesn’t give a fig what happens to us, once loyal Oceania clients after the cruise or probably any other passengers for that matter. Let this be fair warning for future travelers who are considering Oceania or other NCL holdings cruise lines. 

[Bongomauka]

6 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

Can you call the customer number and request a copy of the invoice? My spouse is PR for an estate with a less-than-cooperative spouse. We have had to obtain invoices directly from providers in order to administer the estate, and they always either have a balance due or something indicating "Paid" (like an electronic stamp). It seems to me that a current invoice from the Portuguese Air Force indicating "Paid" or a balance due would be sufficient to move forward. Good luck!

That is exactly what we need but after almost 3 months of waiting, Oceania/NCL has yet to present the promised paperwork. Oceania and its parent company NCL appear to not give a damn

[Hlitner]

I am trying to get myself around the fact that the Portuguese Air Force billed for their services.  In 50 years of extensive cruising, we have never heard of any military body (be it the Coast Guard or other branches) bill for transportation from a cruise ship to land.  I wonder if this means the US Coast Guard should bill any rescue of Portuguese as a retaliatory measure.   Several years ago, while on the Grand Med cruise (Prinsendam) we changed course and went out of our way to come to the rescue of a sinking Portuguese fishing trawler (well off the Azores).  Our HAL ship (under Captain Halle Gundersen) took charge of the rescue (there were several other commercial ships in the area) and ultimately took all the stranded crew (they were in a large life raft) aboard.  Within a couple of hour a Portuguese Coast Guard helicopter flew out to our ship (from the Azores) and winched all of that crew off our deck.  You can be sure that HAL did not send a bill to Portugal.  

 

My question to the OP is "have you received an actual bill from NCL?"  If not, put them on notice (in writing) that need to produce a bill (along with proof they actually made a payment to Portugal) within X number of days.  Make it clear that if NCL does not produce such documentation you will consider the matter permanently closed.   In your situation I would get an attorney to write such a letter, but an alternative is to simply write such a letter yourself.

 

Hank

 

 

[Bongomauka]

51 minutes ago, Vertygo said:

Not sure what you consider “normal” health insurance to be, but Kaiser Permanente is the largest HMO in the country.

They cover emergency health costs worldwide, less any expected copay for the specific service received. OP already stated their copay would be $200.

I had an ambulance/ER visit in Spain following an O cruise in 2018. Kaiser reimbursed all but $50, my normal copay for ER visits.

Yes Vertygo, Kaiser already has indicated they will cover the cost minus the deductible but the villain here s Oceania and its parent company NCL holdings which has withheld the documentation Kaiser needs to proceed. 

[ldubs]

3 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your support. The invoice is from the Portuguese Air Force who performed the helicopter evacuation from our cruise ship. We’re concerned that since NCL claims to have paid but has offered absolutely no documentation, we will be stuck with the bill in spite of having several layers of insurance protection. The filing time is not the issue. All of our insurance companies have a one year window for resolution which we are fast approaching since it’s taken nearly 3 months for NCL to send us any documentation. This documentation is needed by the insurance companies for them to cover the evacuation costs. Should the window close and we have not received documentation from NCL, our medical insurance, our travelers insurance and our credit card insurance policies will no longer cover the evacuation costs. We will then have to pay out of pocket in spite of all our insurance coverage. All because NCL is more concerned about taking our money for the cruise but doesn’t give a fig what happens to us, once loyal Oceania clients after the cruise or probably any other passengers for that matter. Let this be fair warning for future travelers who are considering Oceania or other NCL holdings cruise lines. 

 

Got it.  Have you checked with the Portuguese AF to see if they received payment?  If yes, then all is good!  

 

I think policy language is always going to say something about timely responses.  The set time limit on an open claim might seem odd to me, but then I'm not reading the policy contract.  

[Bongomauka]

3 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am trying to get myself around the fact that the Portuguese Air Force billed for their services.  In 50 years of extensive cruising, we have never heard of any military body (be it the Coast Guard or other branches) bill for transportation from a cruise ship to land.  I wonder if this means the US Coast Guard should bill any rescue of Portuguese as a retaliatory measure.   Several years ago, while on the Grand Med cruise (Prinsendam) we changed course and went out of our way to come to the rescue of a sinking Portuguese fishing trawler (well off the Azores).  Our HAL ship (under Captain Halle Gundersen) took charge of the rescue (there were several other commercial ships in the area) and ultimately took all the stranded crew (they were in a large life raft) aboard.  Within a couple of hour a Portuguese Coast Guard helicopter flew out to our ship (from the Azores) and winched all of that crew off our deck.  You can be sure that HAL did not send a bill to Portugal.  

 

Hank

Unfortunately we are indeed accountable for the bill as we received an invoice. Perhaps your comment would indicate traveling with Holland America is a far superior choice in situations like this than Oceania. It sure seems that way from where I sit now. 

[Hlitner]

Just now, Bongomauka said:

Unfortunately we are indeed accountable for the bill as we received an invoice. Perhaps your comment would indicate traveling with Holland America is a far superior choice in situations like this than Oceania. It sure seems that way from where I sit now. 

Heavens no, on the HAL vs O issue :).  But an invoice from O would have zero credibility to me without proof that O actually made a payment to Portugal.  If the documentation from O is not sufficient for your insurance company, then it should also not be sufficient for you. 

[ldubs]

15 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

It seems to me that a current invoice from the Portuguese Air Force indicating "Paid" or a balance due would be sufficient to move forward. Good luck!

 

I sure agree.   To me this seems a jumble of a mess.   Insured is invoiced directly for a covered event.  For some reason, information that the cruise line says they paid is part of the claims process.  That would of course throw a wrench in the works.  And yet the cruise line refuses to provide proof of payment or indicate they did not pay.   If in fact they did pay then there is no loss unless the cruise line wants reimbursement, which apparently they don't.   

[Bongomauka]

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Got it.  Have you checked with the Portuguese AF to see if they received payment?  If yes, then all is good!  

 

I think policy language is always going to say something about timely responses.  The set time limit on an open claim might seem odd to me, but then I'm not reading the policy contract.  

4 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Got it.  Have you checked with the Portuguese AF to see if they received payment?  If yes, then all is good!  

 

I think policy language is always going to say something about timely responses.  The set time limit on an open claim might seem odd to me, but then I'm not reading the policy contract.  

It would be okay if we could get the Portuguese Air Force to send us a record of payment but they have proven to be impossible to contact. We tried the Portuguese consulate and they refused to help us. In any case, the Air Force being paid does not absolve us of paying NCL which claims to have paid it and can then turn around and demand reimbursement from us. 

6 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am trying to get myself around the fact that the Portuguese Air Force billed for their services.  In 50 years of extensive cruising, we have never heard of any military body (be it the Coast Guard or other branches) bill for transportation from a cruise ship to land.  I wonder if this means the US Coast Guard should bill any rescue of Portuguese as a retaliatory measure.   Several years ago, while on the Grand Med cruise (Prinsendam) we changed course and went out of our way to come to the rescue of a sinking Portuguese fishing trawler (well off the Azores).  Our HAL ship (under Captain Halle Gundersen) took charge of the rescue (there were several other commercial ships in the area) and ultimately took all the stranded crew (they were in a large life raft) aboard.  Within a couple of hour a Portuguese Coast Guard helicopter flew out to our ship (from the Azores) and winched all of that crew off our deck.  You can be sure that HAL did not send a bill to Portugal.  

 

Hank

Unfortunately we are indeed accountable for the bill as we received an invoice. Perhaps your comment would indicate traveling with Holland America is a far superior choice in situations like this than Oceania. It sure seems that way from where I sit now. 

[AMHuntFerry]

18 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

That is exactly what we need but after almost 3 months of waiting, Oceania/NCL has yet to present the promised paperwork. Oceania and its parent company NCL appear to not give a damn

No, I meant the invoice directly from the air force since they are the ones that may ultimately come after you for payment. Or are you saying that NCL is the creditor? Whoever is demanding payment is the one that needs to provide a "balance due" invoice. If NCLH is the creditor and has not provided a proper invoice, I agree with the advice to send a letter from an attorney. Your estate planning attorney may be able to provide one or refer you to an attorney who can. Also, you bought this insurance through a TA; your TA should also be hounding their O-rep to get resolution to this issue.

 

(Oops, just read post #54 - so invoice is from NCLH)

Edited January 13 by AMHuntFerry

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Bongomauka said:

It would be okay if we could get the Portuguese Air Force to send us a record of payment but they have proven to be impossible to contact. We tried the Portuguese consulate and they refused to help us. In any case, the Air Force being paid does not absolve us of paying NCL which claims to have paid it and can then turn around and demand reimbursement from us. 

 

 

OK, I am assuming NCL has not demanded reimbursement.  Perhaps you should ask them in writing if you own them reimbursement.  Their response either way would serve as documentation I suppose. 

 

That the invoice you received directly has no contact info is troublesome to say the least.   

[AMHuntFerry]

OK, now I'm seeing the picture more clearly...NCLH is the creditor, not the PAF. An analogous situation (that may be more familiar) is when we hire a general contractor for a home remodel. Before paying final payment the general contractor (and possibly before), I ask to see proof that subs were paid. If subs weren't paid, they can put a lien on my house. Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish. Any decent contract (estate, real estate, etc. ) attorney can do this; your insurance may have an attorney that will do this for a fee.

Edited January 13 by AMHuntFerry

[Bongomauka]

19 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

OK, now I'm seeing the picture more clearly...NCLH is the creditor, not the PAF. An analogous situation (that may be more familiar) is when we hire a general contractor for a home remodel. Before paying final payment the general contractor (and possibly before), I ask to see proof that subs were paid. If subs weren't paid, they can put a lien on my house. Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish. Any decent contract (estate, real estate, etc. ) attorney can do this; your insurance may have an attorney that will do this for a fee.

Thank you for your suggestion. I will definitely look into that. But would you not agree that this should have been a straight forward process that would not normally require an attorney except for Oceania/NCL Holding’s despicable behavior? I’m sure I sound angry but after almost a year of daily attempts to resolve this claim, can you honestly blame me?I can’t comprehend how Oceania justifies targeting their typical 50+ average age customers without taking responsibility for their welfare while on their ships. 

[Bongomauka]

46 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I sure agree.   To me this seems a jumble of a mess.   Insured is invoiced directly for a covered event.  For some reason, information that the cruise line says they paid is part of the claims process.  That would of course throw a wrench in the works.  And yet the cruise line refuses to provide proof of payment or indicate they did not pay.   If in fact they did pay then there is no loss unless the cruise line wants reimbursement, which apparently they don't.   

Apparently they do. The cruise line’s third party insurance processor has indicated that we will be billed. Our insurance policies all expire in a couple of months. NCL has not supplied any documentation of payment or non payment in the last almost 3 months. We are at their mercy. 

[GeezerCouple]

35 minutes ago, AMHuntFerry said:

OK, now I'm seeing the picture more clearly...NCLH is the creditor, not the PAF. An analogous situation (that may be more familiar) is when we hire a general contractor for a home remodel. Before paying final payment the general contractor (and possibly before), I ask to see proof that subs were paid. If subs weren't paid, they can put a lien on my house. Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish. Any decent contract (estate, real estate, etc. ) attorney can do this; your insurance may have an attorney that will do this for a fee.

 

3 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Thank you for your suggestion. I will definitely look into that. But would you not agree that this should have been a straight forward process that would not normally require an attorney except for Oceania/NCL Holding’s despicable behavior? I’m sure I sound angry but after almost a year of daily attempts to resolve this claim, can you honestly blame me?I can’t comprehend how Oceania justifies targeting their typical 50+ average age customers without taking responsibility for their welfare while on their ships. 

 

First:  I think all of us (or almost all?) DO understand the aggravation.  It seems absurd, yes.  But you do need to deal with it to resolve this!

 

Next:

AMHuntFerry has the perfect answer.  Or one of possible perfect answers(??). 😉 

 

"Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish."

 

It can really be an eye-opener to send a letter from an attorney.

 

(Possible downside: Vendor may respond something like, "You are starting legal action [you have not yet done this, btw, at this stage], so we will only contact you through our legal department."

That would be TERRIFIC:  You and your attorney will have a direct contact to those who will far more likely to "get it", and once they realize you do NOT "want money", but just documentation (how often is that what is requested/demanded!?), they are likely to want to end this before it might escalate.

Yes, I'm probably being a bit optimistic, but let's hope...)

 

Hopefully, either corporate or legal will do *something*, if the letter is from a real attorney.

You aren't threatening litigation (not yet, right?) and you aren't demanding any damages, etc.  Just documentation!

 

Given the aggravation you've already gone through (considerable!) and the risk of someone trying to get the money from you personally... a small legal fee would be well worth it in our minds.

 

Just speak with an attorney about this type of relatively simple letter.

You can continue to be quite rightfully angry, but first, get the nonsense ended!

 

Otherwise, it seems you'll continue to spin your wheels and fret more and more.

 

Let us know if/how this works!

 

GC

[AMHuntFerry]

7 minutes ago, Bongomauka said:

Apparently they do. The cruise line’s third party insurance processor has indicated that we will be billed. Our insurance policies all expire in a couple of months. NCL has not supplied any documentation of payment or non payment in the last almost 3 months. We are at their mercy. 

Oh yes, I understand your pain...not the same pain as administering an estate with an uncooperative spouse, but I too get really peeved when people/companies can't do simple tasks (like provide proof of payment when they are asking me to reimburse them...I had a ~$25 expense rejected by my company once because I had misplaced a receipt, so yes, I would expect proof of a multi-thousand expense).

[Bongomauka]

3 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

 

First:  I think all of us (or almost all?) DO understand the aggravation.  It seems absurd, yes.  But you do need to deal with it to resolve this!

 

Next:

AMHuntFerry has the perfect answer.  Or one of possible perfect answers(??). 😉 

 

"Pay an attorney to send a letter that says something to the effect of "we won't pay this bill until proof of payment is shown. You have until X date." It's amazing what a simple letter from an attorney can accomplish."

 

It can really be an eye-opener to send a letter from an attorney.

 

(Possible downside: Vendor may respond something like, "You are starting legal action [you have not yet done this, btw, at this stage], so we will only contact you through our legal department."

That would be TERRIFIC:  You and your attorney will have a direct contact to those who will far more likely to "get it", and once they realize you do NOT "want money", but just documentation (how often is that what is requested/demanded!?), they are likely to want to end this before it might escalate.

Yes, I'm probably being a bit optimistic, but let's hope...)

 

Hopefully, either corporate or legal will do *something*, if the letter is from a real attorney.

You aren't threatening litigation (not yet, right?) and you aren't demanding any damages, etc.  Just documentation!

 

Given the aggravation you've already gone through (considerable!) and the risk of someone trying to get the money from you personally... a small legal fee would be well worth it in our minds.

 

Just speak with an attorney about this type of relatively simple letter.

You can continue to be quite rightfully angry, but first, get the nonsense ended!

 

Otherwise, it seems you'll continue to spin your wheels and fret more and more.

 

Let us know if/how this works!

 

GC

As I  wrote above, we have indeed been in contact with three different attorneys, none of which are willing to take on our case. The suggestion of a letter was also made previously and which we plan to explore next business day. We are grateful that so many of our fellow cruisers have taken an interest in our plight and have offered tangible suggestions to help end our Oceania NCL nightmare. We will continue to post any developments as they happen as I would imagine the possibility of other cruisers would experience similar poor treatment from Oceania or NCL is very high. So far the lesson for us is to avoid cruise companies that have little interest in helping cruisers after the cruise line has already gotten their money.

[clo]

2 hours ago, Vertygo said:

Not sure what you consider “normal” health insurance to be, but Kaiser Permanente is the largest HMO in the country.

They cover emergency health costs worldwide, less any expected copay for the specific service received. OP already stated their copay would be $200.

I had an ambulance/ER visit in Spain following an O cruise in 2018. Kaiser reimbursed all but $50, my normal copay for ER visits.

Something that I had hoped would be brought up here. Medicare is only in effect within the US. So you're not on Medicare yet?