Maleth confirms end of P&O partnership

[carlanthony24]

6 minutes ago, Pasty feet said:

Speaking as one of the notional 63 and being extremely naive I would have expected P&O to have lined up flights with PE available before selling the cruises in question. We booked in June for next February, it beggars belief that passenger take up has surprised P & O to this extent. P & O offered to try to source Virgin for us, but I gather this also is not straightforward.  As previously stated, my sympathies lie entirely with people who have paid in full  on the basis of having PE, a minority they may very well be. Nobody with any sense would cancel purely because there’s no IFE. From past experience this is generally dire anyway. 

It does not work like that. Airlines only have schedules 12months in advance. Then P&O need to get slotted in. Some cruise lines do not even offer flights included in the package so you could be spending £1000+more just to do that if P&O did not offer them. Last October we got our flights assigned to us to fly back from Tenerife around 3 weeks prior to departure or their about. 

 

Quite a few have cancelled because of no IFE which personally I find crazy. I said before if on the day the plane got swapped what would you do? The response was I would go home.

Edited September 26, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Pasty feet]

2 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

We had an email this morning about our flights. Hubby's heart sank and then when he opened the document was relieved to read that we are still on the flight on our Cruise Personaliser via TUI Premium Charter. Phew

 

Delighted for you, truly 

[Megabear2]

1 minute ago, Pasty feet said:

Speaking as one of the notional 63 and being extremely naive I would have expected P&O to have lined up flights with PE available before selling the cruises in question. We booked in June for next February, it beggars belief that passenger take up has surprised P & O to this extent. P & O offered to try to source Virgin for us, but I gather this also is not straightforward.  As previously stated, my sympathies lie entirely with people who have paid in full  on the basis of having PE, a minority they may very well be. Nobody with any sense would cancel purely because there’s no IFE. From past experience this is generally dire anyway. 

I fully understand your situation.  Clearly P&O were hoping even back in June to source these aircraft from TUI or Virgin.  Incidentally I booked my cruise in June onboard Arvia too.  I actually was moving a cruise deposit from an Arvia cruise and needed it to cost more than £7,100 to be able to do this.  The PE option was in a separate section of the computer with fares listed according to airport.  Many of the Arvia options showed quite clearly no PE fares on sale.  I assumed this meant sold out, however maybe not since this has broken.

 

 

[Megabear2]

23 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

No really a choice though is it. More of an imposition.

Why?  You book a cruise that gives you an included flight. It doesn't say who with. It could be anyone, just because historically it was so and so it does hold it will be them forever.

[Pasty feet]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

It does not work like that. Airlines only have schedules 12months in advance. Then P&O need to get slotted in. Some cruise lines do not even offer flights included in the package so you could be spending £1000+more just to do that if P&O did not offer them. Last October we got our flights assigned to us to fly back from Tenerife around 3 weeks prior to departure or their about.

Ah thank you for clarification. Must admit last time with p &O to the Caribbean it was economy on Thomas Cook and abysmal. We had decided to pay extra for comfort this time.  Have now decided to look elsewhere.  No problem.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, Megabear2 said:

Why?  You book a cruise that gives you an included flight. It doesn't say who with. It could be anyone, just because historically it was so and so it does hold it will be them forever.

I was referring as you are probably well aware to those above who had booked PE and have now lost a deposit because of changes beyond their control. Money was taken for this facility. This forms contract.

 

Why are you so very keen to defend a change which has cost people who booked (PE) in all good faith money?

 

[Pasty feet]

7 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

It does not work like that. Airlines only have schedules 12months in advance. Then P&O need to get slotted in. Some cruise lines do not even offer flights included in the package so you could be spending £1000+more just to do that if P&O did not offer them. Last October we got our flights assigned to us to fly back from Tenerife around 3 weeks prior to departure or their about. 

 

Quite a few have cancelled because of no IFE which personally I find crazy. I said before if on the day the plane got swapped what would you do? The response was I would go home.

Nobody should label the opinions of others crazy, it’s disrespectful.  As I said before, for me personally it’s the fact that we have received sufficient notice to enable us to cancel, as is our right which we have exercised. If on the day one was faced with the situation you describe one would very likely swallow it and travel having paid a lot of money.  We’ve had this happen on one of our trips to the States and you go with the flow, naturally. Everyone has valid opinions since we are all paying customers 

[carlanthony24]

Just now, Pasty feet said:

Nobody should label the opinions of others crazy, it’s disrespectful.  As I said before, for me personally it’s the fact that we have received sufficient notice to enable us to cancel, as is our right which we have exercised. If on the day one was faced with the situation you describe one would very likely swallow it and travel having paid a lot of money.  We’ve had this happen on one of our trips to the States and you go with the flow, naturally. Everyone has valid opinions since we are all paying customers 

Maybe I could of chose better words but I'm not trying to be disrespectful. IFE is more of a privilege now. People just seem to forget that it can happen at anytime but I guess would rather demand this and that.

[Pasty feet]

16 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I fully understand your situation.  Clearly P&O were hoping even back in June to source these aircraft from TUI or Virgin.  Incidentally I booked my cruise in June onboard Arvia too.  I actually was moving a cruise deposit from an Arvia cruise and needed it to cost more than £7,100 to be able to do this.  The PE option was in a separate section of the computer with fares listed according to airport.  Many of the Arvia options showed quite clearly no PE fares on sale.  I assumed this meant sold out, however maybe not since this has broken.

 

 

Yes and frankly the projected cost for us was £7000.  For this I expected to fly in style and comfort. Clearly the future cruise lady on Arvia was not fully aware of all the nuances and potential problems. Charitably I believe the booking was made in good faith on both sides.

[Megabear2]

14 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Why are you so very keen to defend a change which has cost people who booked (PE) in all good faith money?

I am defending the right of P&O to provide the best available aircraft for the 600 people on that day's flights.  Of course I am sorry for those in PE who find there is none, however they were offered their money back and OBC by way of an apology if they accepted to fly on the Maleth aircraft.  If those good folk felt they couldn't fly in the offered diminished cabin that is their personal choice. Yes, maybe P&O could be considered "mean" for not offering free cancellation to those PE passengers with a genuine need perhaps for medical reasons or whatever but then you get into what is a genuine need and put simply it would be more trouble than it's worth so take it or leave it is their stance.

 

It is all well and good to say P&O have "changed" the airline but under the rules they haven't because absolutely nowhere do they name an airline.  Yes, assumptions are made that a certain airline will provide the flights but as stated above schedules for airlines are planned far nearer to the point of sale than cruises are.  For instance I can book a cruise for next Christmas with most cruise lines and have been able to do so for nearly a year.  I cannot however book a Christmas 2024 package holiday with TUI to Barbados because they aren't on sale yet.  Consequently if TUI plan their long haul holidays after P&O sell a cruise with an included flight, there is always going to be a risk TUI will decide to use their aircraft themselves.  In other words P&O will need to go out into the world of aircraft leasing and take what's on offer.

 

Truthfully the world has changed, there simply aren't spare planes lying around the major airlines waiting to be leased out.  

 

It's lucky these planes have been "found" by the lease company because otherwise none of that 30% of the Arvia and Britannia passengers would be going anywhere.

[Pasty feet]

32 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Maybe I could of chose better words but I'm not trying to be disrespectful. IFE is more of a privilege now. People just seem to forget that it can happen at anytime but I guess would rather demand this and that.

No problem, of course. I think this issue has raised temperatures all round. P & O have run up against quite a problem with this. When we travelled to the Caribbean with P & O previously we had ghastly Thomas Cook from Gatwick, but our lucky friends on the same trip had Dreamliner the day before.  Seems it’s luck of the draw. We determined that we wouldn’t suffer in economy again and wanted premium this time. Since we weren’t entirely pleased with Arvia in June, this lack of PE on top of that made the decision to cancel very easy even though we lost our £200 deposit as opposed to the £7000 full payment due in November.  It’s market forces and P & O’s loss. Once again, am sorry for people who booked PE out of medical need not people like us who simply wanted a treat. We will survive ha ha. 

[Eglesbrech]

7 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

If those good folk felt they couldn't fly in the offered diminished cabin that is their personal choice

No it’s not. There is absolutely no choice in the matter, they lose their deposit. Where is the choice?

 

Some simply can’t or don’t want to fly in (what they feel are) cramped, uncomfortable seats. Consequently they book something that suits their personal needs, they pay for it and because of that “consideration” they have a contract for a PE seat. P&O can absolutely change the flights but they should offer the option to cancel with a refund of deposit if these changes, removing the agreed more comfortable cabin seats, don’t meet the needs of their customers.

 

If they have paid the full balance then they have even less “choice”. Lose a large amount of money or fly in circumstances which some simply can’t tolerate for whatever reason.

 

I never fly long haul without business class or PE. I did it once and that was once too much for me so I feel for those who have lost both their holiday and their deposit.

 

 

[carlanthony24]

10 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

No it’s not. There is absolutely no choice in the matter, they lose their deposit. Where is the choice?

 

Some simply can’t or don’t want to fly in (what they feel are) cramped, uncomfortable seats. Consequently they book something that suits their personal needs, they pay for it and because of that “consideration” they have a contract for a PE seat. P&O can absolutely change the flights but they should offer the option to cancel with a refund of deposit if these changes, removing the agreed more comfortable cabin seats, don’t meet the needs of their customers.

 

If they have paid the full balance then they have even less “choice”. Lose a large amount of money or fly in circumstances which some simply can’t tolerate for whatever reason.

 

I never fly long haul without business class or PE. I did it once and that was once too much for me so I feel for those who have lost both their holiday and their deposit.

 

 

They pay for it knowing that they may not even get a TUI aircraft so they take a chance. The wording is all in the T&CS. You could say that BA, Virgin, TUI etc should offer a refund for the same thing they don't though.

[Pasty feet]

4 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

No it’s not. There is absolutely no choice in the matter, they lose their deposit. Where is the choice?

 

Some simply can’t or don’t want to fly in (what they feel are) cramped, uncomfortable seats. Consequently they book something that suits their personal needs, they pay for it and because of that “consideration” they have a contract for a PE seat. P&O can absolutely change the flights but they should offer the option to cancel with a refund of deposit if these changes, removing the agreed more comfortable cabin seats, don’t meet the needs of their customers.

 

If they have paid the full balance then they have even less “choice”. Lose a large amount of money or fly in circumstances which some simply can’t tolerate for whatever reason.

 

I never fly long haul without business class or PE. I did it once and that was once too much for me so I feel for those who have lost both their holiday and their deposit.

8 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

No it’s not. There is absolutely no choice in the matter, they lose their deposit. Where is the choice?

 

Some simply can’t or don’t want to fly in (what they feel are) cramped, uncomfortable seats. Consequently they book something that suits their personal needs, they pay for it and because of that “consideration” they have a contract for a PE seat. P&O can absolutely change the flights but they should offer the option to cancel with a refund of deposit if these changes, removing the agreed more comfortable cabin seats, don’t meet the needs of their customers.

 

If they have paid the full balance then they have even less “choice”. Lose a large amount of money or fly in circumstances which some simply can’t tolerate for whatever reason.

 

I never fly long haul without business class or PE. I did it once and that was once too much for me so I feel for those who have lost both their holiday and their deposit.

 

 

Your remarks are full of common sense.  I assume P & O would say the deposit was simply to secure the booking, but actually, removing PE is a profound change.  Companies always find a way to avoid things. 

[Eglesbrech]

7 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

They pay for it knowing that they may not even get a TUI aircraft so they take a chance. The wording is all in the T&CS. You could say that BA, Virgin, TUI etc should offer a refund for the same thing they don't though.

But it does say premium economy does it not? It now says one style of cabin only. The airline is surely irrelevant.

 

Why is everyone so keen to defend P&O when they have clearly removed a service they offered, people booked and paid for in all good faith and they have now removed with consequential loss of deposit?

Edited September 26, 2023 by Eglesbrech
Issued w

[carlanthony24]

11 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

But it does say premium economy does it not? It now says one style of cabin only. The airline is surely irrelevant.

 

Why is everyone so keen to defend P&O when they have clearly removed a service they offered, people booked and paid for in all good faith and they have now removed with consequential loss of deposit?

aribbean flight upgrades

On our charter flights we are pleased to be able to offer flight upgrades for an additional supplement. The benefits of upgrading vary by airline, but include the following:

• Increased baggage allowance~
• Increased seat pitch
• Priority check-in and fast-track (where available) through security at the UK airport
• Complimentary drinks (excluding Champagne and sparkling wine)
• Amenity kit on the outbound flight

 

"If, for any reason, the upgraded cabin is withdrawn from a particular flight, the upgrade supplement for that flight sector will be refunded in full. Supplements for seats in upgraded cabins are payable in addition to any applicable regional supplements."

 

 

All flights

a) All flight times, air carriers and flight routings are subject to change. Flights will not necessarily be direct or non-stop. P&O Cruises has no control over changes airlines may make, but will inform you should these occur.

b) Full details of air travel arrangements will be available via my.pocruises.com as soon as they have been finalised.

c) When we charter aircraft from an airline we tailor the services offered for our guests, so these may differ from the airline’s advertised services.

Edited September 26, 2023 by carlanthony24

[Eglesbrech]

Just now, carlanthony24 said:

aribbean flight upgrades

On our charter flights we are pleased to be able to offer flight upgrades for an additional supplement. The benefits of upgrading vary by airline, but include the following:

• Increased baggage allowance~
• Increased seat pitch
• Priority check-in and fast-track (where available) through security at the UK airport
• Complimentary drinks (excluding Champagne and sparkling wine)
• Amenity kit on the outbound flight

And your point is?

 

Still offers extras including increased seat pitch. That’s what people paid for.

[carlanthony24]

2 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

And your point is?

 

Still offers extras including increased seat pitch. That’s what people paid for.

"The benefits of upgrading Vary" Keyword Vary so you could take that has not guarenteed.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, carlanthony24 said:

"The benefits of upgrading Vary" Keyword Vary so you could take that has not guarenteed.

And you are defending that?

[carlanthony24]

8 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

And you are defending that?

Its clear in black & white if people don't read then its on them.

[Eglesbrech]

2 minutes ago, carlanthony24 said:

Its clear in black & white if people don't read then its on them.

All heart calanthony.

 

Let’s hope the small print never affects you.

Edited September 26, 2023 by Eglesbrech
Lest for let’s typo

[carlanthony24]

1 minute ago, Eglesbrech said:

All heart calanthony.

 

Let’s hope the small print never affects you.

It has. I've said before our TUI flight was changed we had no IFE, we had no leg room. The people who checked in earlier than us got lie flat bed seats which I don't know if they actually worked with ample leg room. We still were given a premium service though. Did it bother us no and we still got a refund.

[Eglesbrech]

Just now, carlanthony24 said:

It has. I've said before our TUI flight was changed we had no IFE, we had no leg room. The people who checked in earlier than us got lie flat bed seats which I don't know if they actually worked with ample leg room. We still were given a premium service though. Did it bother us no and we still got a refund.

The if it has I would think you would be more sympathetic to those affected now.

 

A refund is completely pointless if you can’t actually tolerate the flight in the first place.

[carlanthony24]

4 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

The if it has I would think you would be more sympathetic to those affected now.

 

A refund is completely pointless if you can’t actually tolerate the flight in the first place.

Of course I am but knowing it can happen anytime. Like I said people who do these Caribbean flights regularly or even another long haul how many are risking it knowing full well they may get a different aircraft and knowing they can't tolerate still book it. I guess we both see it from different points of view.

Edited September 26, 2023 by carlanthony24

[snaefell]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

All heart calanthony.

 

Let’s hope the small print never affects you.

The small print will surely get most,if not all of us sometime,all the benefits offered are all subject to operational requirements.

I really do not understand the fuss,PE & IFE have only been on offer a relatively short time yet suddenly people can't do without them & object to flying on anything over a few years old,sounds like people have been spoilt!

As has already been pointed out cruises are planned years ahead whilst airline schedules are usually on a much shorter time scale,if travel companies had seen Covid coming I wonder how differently they may have planned things.