Norwegians shocking demise of quality on all fronts

[birdie16]

29 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Since you agree that incorporating the gratuities into the cruise fare would only increase the amount of the fare by a similar amount, how would incorporating those gratuities affect  your decision?  The total cost of the cruise is not changed by incorporating the gratuities. 

 

BTW, every cruise line is guilty of 'nickel and diming'.

Some nickel and dime more than others. Listen, I didn’t come here to argue. I’m simply telling you I would prefer all cruiselines would include gratuities and port charges on their fare so you can compare apples to apples. agree with me or not, I really don’t care.

 

We’ve cruises many other lines and are on the upper level on a few. One of the reasons we are trying NCL again is because we are tired of the same entertainment. Our last ten or so cruises have been on Holland America and we have their production shows memorized. We got a great offer, even though the gratuities cost way more. If we feel we get a great value for those higher gratuities, we might cruise them again. If they don’t stack up, this will be our last time on them. It’s my money, I can spend it on things I find are of value to me, just as you can. BTW, the gratuities may be less on other lines, but that doesn’t mean I don’t pay them more… that is my choice, not the cruiselines.
 

 

[birdie16]

36 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Not trying to dissuade you, but have you compared the total out of pocket compared to the other similar cruise lines, dates and itineraries?

On this particular cruise, the fare was so low it temped us to pull the trigger. After the cruise, I will be able to tell you if the added cost of extras through nickel and diming made it a deal. We drink free on two other lines because of our loyalty status, that makes them a pretty good deal.

 

The itinerary on the cruise we booked is simply an escape, nothing exciting. Cozumel and Grand Cayman. We’ve been to both so many times we don’t even get off the ship sometimes. I’m looking forward to being in the Caribbean and sitting on my balcony. If the food and entertainment aren’t good, then no, the price will not have been a bargain.

[graphicguy]

I find the pricing info provided by NCL easy to figure out.  I’m looking at this on on the Joy in Sept.

 

Last month my final bill on the Prima was -65 cents.  Was able to get really close to what my final out of pocket would be!

 

The newest one I’m considering looks like this…

PRICE SUMMARY

Total

$2,673.60 

STATEROOM

2 Guests

• Balcony 

  $3,676 

  50% Off All Cruises

  $1,838

FREE AT SEA

• Open Bar

  Selected
• Specialty Dining

  Selected
• Shore Excursions

  Included
• WiFi

  Included

+MORE OFFERS

• 50% Off All Cruises

  Included
• 2-For-1 Deposits

  Included

• Subtotal 

  $1,838 
• Gov. Taxes, Fees and Port Expenses 

  $490.80 
• Open Bar Gratuities 

  $305.20 
• Specialty Dining Gratuities 

  $39.60 

Total Due

$2,673.60

[JamieLogical]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

I find the pricing info provided by NCL easy to figure out.  I’m looking at this on on the Joy in Sept.

 

Last month my final bill on the Prima was -65 cents.  Was able to get really close to what my final out of pocket would be!

 

The newest one I’m considering looks like this…

 

PRICE SUMMARY

Total

$2,673.60 

STATEROOM

2 Guests

• Balcony 

  $3,676 

  50% Off All Cruises

  $1,838

FREE AT SEA

• Open Bar

  Selected
• Specialty Dining

  Selected
• Shore Excursions

  Included
• WiFi

  Included

+MORE OFFERS

• 50% Off All Cruises

  Included
• 2-For-1 Deposits

  Included

• Subtotal 

  $1,838 
• Gov. Taxes, Fees and Port Expenses 

  $490.80 
• Open Bar Gratuities 

  $305.20 
• Specialty Dining Gratuities 

  $39.60 

Total Due

$2,673.60

 

I don't see DSC on there, but maybe I am just blind.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I don't see DSC on there, but maybe I am just blind.

I’m running “0-fer” on my cuts and pastes, ain’t I?

[DCGuy64]

21 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Not trying to dissuade you, but have you compared the total out of pocket compared to the other similar cruise lines, dates and itineraries?

As I see it, this is the only thing that matters. But there are still some cruisers out there who'd actually rather pay MORE money just to have everything included. I remember a post from a lady who said she thought NCL should include excursions in every port, and since they weren't, she was taking her business to Viking. Yeah, of course Viking gives you a "free" excursion in every port-and they charge $12,000 for the same 7-day cruise that NCL charges $1,500 for. You can pay for a lot of excursions with that extra $10,500! SMH. I agree that having the charges broken down can be annoying. But every time I've done sample bookings on NCL, they do give you a total at the end which sums up everything. Some people literally want all cruise lines to do true "all-inclusive" pricing, even if that results in higher prices across the board. Well, you might be retired and loaded, but we aren't. And furthermore, some people want to save money by opting out of certain things, something that requiring all cruise lines to make it all-inclusive would render impossible. I like how NCL structures things and I don't want them to change.

[graphicguy]

13 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

As I see it, this is the only thing that matters. But there are still some cruisers out there who'd actually rather pay MORE money just to have everything included. I remember a post from a lady who said she thought NCL should include excursions in every port, and since they weren't, she was taking her business to Viking. Yeah, of course Viking gives you a "free" excursion in every port-and they charge $12,000 for the same 7-day cruise that NCL charges $1,500 for. You can pay for a lot of excursions with that extra $10,500! SMH. I agree that having the charges broken down can be annoying. But every time I've done sample bookings on NCL, they do give you a total at the end which sums up everything. Some people literally want all cruise lines to do true "all-inclusive" pricing, even if that results in higher prices across the board. Well, you might be retired and loaded, but we aren't. And furthermore, some people want to save money by opting out of certain things, something that requiring all cruise lines to make it all-inclusive would render impossible. I like how NCL structures things and I don't want them to change.

I agree.

 

 The cruise lines have their pricing and marketing jargon.  I didn't think it was that hard to see what a cruise would cost once you figure out the packages you do or don't want (I.E. FAS), taxes, fees, service charges, etc.

 

But, I guess some just can't figure it out.  

 

I have found NCL to be at the very least, competitive, and many times the "value" leader when everything is added in.

 

Some look at only one part of the charges instead of looking at the entire out of pocket.  Out of pocket is the only thing that matters to me when it comes to pricing.

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I agree.

 

 The cruise lines have their pricing and marketing jargon.  I didn't think it was that hard to see what a cruise would cost once you figure out the packages you do or don't want (I.E. FAS), taxes, fees, service charges, etc.

 

But, I guess some just can't figure it out.  

 

I have found NCL to be at the very least, competitive, and many times the "value" leader when everything is added in.

 

Some look at only one part of the charges instead of looking at the entire out of pocket.  Out of pocket is the only thing that matters to me when it comes to pricing.

It's not difficult to determine the total cost of the cruise.  NCL provides that information once you've selected a cruise, a date, and a cabin.

Some are emotionally opposed to gratuities of any kind fully believing that doing away with things like the DSC would mean they would have cheaper cruises.

[Distinctive-Destinations]

27 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

It's not difficult to determine the total cost of the cruise.  

For the “total” cost you have to then add on any excursions, upgrades (like free at sea plus, etc) and the service charges. Most people probably aren’t just booking the cruise and that’s the end of it, as you might on Viking for example. If Viking cost the same as an equal cruise/package as NCL, I might have some thinking to do.

 

While I’d rather pay one lump sum and be done with it, I’d much rather be “nickel and dimed” if the total amount is lower.

[FiredogCruiser]

Having read through these 18 pages, I am finding this thread interesting. I am equating the comments contained in this thread to conversations I've had with fellow passengers on recent cruises from a number of differing cruise lines. Since last fall we have been on Carnival, Holland America and Royal, and currently have the Norwegian trans-Atlantic booked for next month, along with a Cunard return trip, so I guess you can say not particularly a cheerleader for any one brand.

 

What I find interesting in both the complaints about Norwegian, and the defense of them is the relative lack of any expressed expectations. To me the expectations have a huge impact on whether or not I perceive value in a cruise. For example if I book a cruise based upon a desire to visit a specific destination, and then not make it there, as happened last fall on a Carnival cruise to Greenland that never made it, then the value of the inflated price of the cruise for the specific destination is diluted. I paid a vast premium for a product that was not delivered, and received an experience of far less value, thus overpaid for that experience.

 

On the other hand, if I book a theme or charter cruise, my expectations are entirely different, as they were when I was on the Holland America County Music Cruise this January. Ports were changed due to weather, and also due to a change made to accommodate one of the performers booked  Since the expectations were based upon the performances to be experienced, and not the ports visited or food served, the criteria for evaluating the cruise is entirely different.

 

In both cases I had the opportunity to talk with, and or listen to, passengers who were angry, disappointed, accepting, and so on. What I found interesting was that those with specific unmet expectations were far more vocal than those who were just along for the ride.

 

So what I look at in these instances is how the cruise line markets and prices a specific expectation. If they market a specific expectation, and increase the pricing based upon that expectation, and then fail to deliver, then I believe customers are justified in their complaints, if adjustment are not made.  On the other hand if the marketed expectation is delivered, but other changes are made for one reason or another then perhaps complaints are not as valid.

 

In my conversations though, I was amazed at how many people do not have specific expectations on the majority of their cruises, other than to enjoy vacation. My position is that if you have no expectations, then you should have no complaints.

[Travelling2Some]

On 3/8/2024 at 7:28 PM, JamieLogical said:

"NCL has made no reductions in quality" and "NCL's cuts have not impacted my experience" are two very different statements. One could be subjectively true, but the other is objectively false. That is my point.

Well said!  What is important to one person might be meaningless to another.

[Megamixer]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:05 AM, mking8288 said:

It's a good thing that I kept some of these in a bottom drawer ... looking back, how things have really changed.  And, I am touching shows of Jean Ann Ryan Productions ... 😉

 

Thank you for posting these.  We downsized when we relocated in 2016 and I got rid of all my old "cruise dailies".  Many times I wish I had saved them.  I wasn't about to argue with the person that recalled paying $100 a dozen years ago at Cagney's but I knew it was nowhere near that much.  I also miss the Jean Ann Ryan productions 😉

[Megamixer]

1 hour ago, FiredogCruiser said:

What I find interesting in both the complaints about Norwegian, and the defense of them is the relative lack of any expressed expectations. To me the expectations have a huge impact on whether or not I perceive value in a cruise

I should clarify that my comments on this thread are only about NCL because the original post was under NCL.  I feel the same about all three cruise lines I frequent; HAL, NCL and RCL.  I always expected to pay more for the alcohol I drank or if I wanted to be in a balcony room instead of an inside cabin.  I don't expect to pay an additional $49 (per meal) for a steak I can chew.  I believe the problem with most of us that complain/feel services have been cut is because cruising has become something different than the reason we cruised in the first place.  Compared to spending 2 weeks in a hotel and eating in restaurants, cruising is still a good value for us.

[graphicguy]

I guess the take away from all this is "the shocking demise of quality across the board" is really none of those things.  Changes?  For sure.  If you don't like the changes, then I can see having to go in a different direction.

 

Like @JamieLogical, I've looked a lot at other cruise lines and just can not find a fare, an itinerary, a ship or a date that suits me as well as my last few NCL cruises provided me.

 

Does that mean I won't find one?  As much as I shop, I'm betting somewhere down the line I'll find something that grabs me.  But, as of right now (actually for 2024), NCL will get my booking (maybe 2 of them).

 

I've only sailed MSC twice.  Both cruises were fine.  But, their fares are now similar to everyone else's.  And, given similar fares (within a few hundred dollars) I'd prefer NCL.

 

That doesn't mean I don't like MSC.  I just don't like them as well as NCL.

 

There's a cruise YouTuber I follow called La Lido Loco.  Nice guy...posts a lot.  He put up a video from another YouTubing couple (Ben and David) who have a pretty decent following.  I'm not huge fan of theirs, but have caught two of their MSC Cruises.  The first one, they excoriated MSC.  This was back in 2021.  

 

The decided to give MSC another change, this time sailing in the Yacht Club.  Their review was positive....UNTIL....MSC apparently caught wind of their first review and demanded they stop filming for the most recent cruise they were on.  Apparently, MSC management got pretty belligerent with them.

 

Not clear when, but MSC offered them a free cruise, either as a "sorry" for their first MSC review or this last one in which they posted their feelings about not being allowed to take pictures or videos AT ALL.

 

Point being, if a cruise line is so insensitive they disallow taking pictures or videos on what ends up being a vacation for us, I would have to think long and hard about ever sailing them again.

 

Just think, those of us who do live reviews with pictures here on Cruise Critic would be disallowed to do so based on the Cruise Line's whim.  

 

Would they do that to me?  I would hope they wouldn't care as I'm not a YouTuber.  Then again, I do post a lot here on CC regarding my cruises.

 

As you can tell, this bothers me.  Not sure anyone should care what does or doesn't bother me, but seriously???????

[JamieLogical]

24 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

I guess the take away from all this is "the shocking demise of quality across the board" is really none of those things.  Changes?  For sure.  If you don't like the changes, then I can see having to go in a different direction.

 

Like @JamieLogical, I've looked a lot at other cruise lines and just can not find a fare, an itinerary, a ship or a date that suits me as well as my last few NCL cruises provided me.

 

Does that mean I won't find one?  As much as I shop, I'm betting somewhere down the line I'll find something that grabs me.  But, as of right now (actually for 2024), NCL will get my booking (maybe 2 of them).

 

I've only sailed MSC twice.  Both cruises were fine.  But, their fares are now similar to everyone else's.  And, given similar fares (within a few hundred dollars) I'd prefer NCL.

 

That doesn't mean I don't like MSC.  I just don't like them as well as NCL.

 

There's a cruise YouTuber I follow called La Lido Loco.  Nice guy...posts a lot.  He put up a video from another YouTubing couple (Ben and David) who have a pretty decent following.  I'm not huge fan of theirs, but have caught two of their MSC Cruises.  The first one, they excoriated MSC.  This was back in 2021.  

 

The decided to give MSC another change, this time sailing in the Yacht Club.  Their review was positive....UNTIL....MSC apparently caught wind of their first review and demanded they stop filming for the most recent cruise they were on.  Apparently, MSC management got pretty belligerent with them.

 

Not clear when, but MSC offered them a free cruise, either as a "sorry" for their first MSC review or this last one in which they posted their feelings about not being allowed to take pictures or videos AT ALL.

 

Point being, if a cruise line is so insensitive they disallow taking pictures or videos on what ends up being a vacation for us, I would have to think long and hard about ever sailing them again.

 

Just think, those of us who do live reviews with pictures here on Cruise Critic would be disallowed to do so based on the Cruise Line's whim.  

 

Would they do that to me?  I would hope they wouldn't care as I'm not a YouTuber.  Then again, I do post a lot here on CC regarding my cruises.

 

As you can tell, this bothers me.  Not sure anyone should care what does or doesn't bother me, but seriously???????

 

For the whole Ben & David thing, I am pretty confident that despite their insinuations about the previous negative review, it was other YC passengers that requested MSC stop them filming. One of the other YC passengers on that sailing posted on the MSC boards that the couple was CONSTANTLY recording in the YC spaces and it was disruptive in the way that someone constantly talking on their phone or someone constantly on zoom meetings would be. People pay for a certain level of privacy and peace to sail in the YC, so I don't fault any of the passengers who felt the constant filming was disruptive. And I don't fault MSC crew from eventually asking them to stop filming after three solid days of doing so if it was disturbing other passengers. It does sound to me that the specific crew members were a little overly aggressive and belligerent, though. They probably could have handled the situation a little less combatively.

[graphicguy]

29 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

For the whole Ben & David thing, I am pretty confident that despite their insinuations about the previous negative review, it was other YC passengers that requested MSC stop them filming. One of the other YC passengers on that sailing posted on the MSC boards that the couple was CONSTANTLY recording in the YC spaces and it was disruptive in the way that someone constantly talking on their phone or someone constantly on zoom meetings would be. People pay for a certain level of privacy and peace to sail in the YC, so I don't fault any of the passengers who felt the constant filming was disruptive. And I don't fault MSC crew from eventually asking them to stop filming after three solid days of doing so if it was disturbing other passengers. It does sound to me that the specific crew members were a little overly aggressive and belligerent, though. They probably could have handled the situation a little less combatively.

OK...makes sense.  

 

According to the YouTubers, they said they were being unobtrusive and led the viewers to believe it was because of their previous negative review.  They mentioned MSC wouldn't even let them take pictures with their iPhone.

 

I agree that being in a bunch of YouTubers videos might be a bit unnerving.  But, not allowing pictures to be taken with an iPhone?  That part bothers me.

 

Although, if I'm taking pics for a live review here on CC, I always as anyone around me who is in the picture if they "mind" that they are in my pic.  No one has denied me so far.

 

I'm not a regular watcher of their vids.  If it weren't for Tony's La Vida Loca video (who I happen to like), I wouldn't have even known about it.

 

Either way, the optics are bad, if nothing else.

 

 

Edited March 12 by graphicguy

[JamieLogical]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

OK...makes sense.  

 

According to the YouTubers, they said they were being unobtrusive and led the viewers to believe it was because of their previous negative review.  They mentioned MSC wouldn't even let them take pictures with their iPhone.

 

I agree that being in a bunch of YouTubers videos might be a bit unnerving.  But, not allowing pictures to be taken with an iPhone?  That part bothers me.

 

I'm not a regular watcher of their vids.  If it weren't for Tony's La Vida Loca video (who I happen to like), I wouldn't have even known about it.

 

Either way, the optics are bad, if nothing else.

 

 

 

Yep! Definitely bad optics. MSC handled the situation poorly. But from what I understand, the couple filmed entire meals in the YC restaurant. I don't care if the camera is pointed at me or not, it would be tough for me to enjoy my meal and speak freely to my tablemate(s) if someone sitting next to me had a camera filming the entire time! I mean, I take photos of my food for my liveblogs, but running a camera through an entire meal? There is plenty of debate about this over on the MSC forums right now, so I won't start the whole debate here.

 

I agree with you about La Lido Loca! Tony is my favorite cruise vlogger and the only one I watch with any regularity.

[graphicguy]

11 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

Yep! Definitely bad optics. MSC handled the situation poorly. But from what I understand, the couple filmed entire meals in the YC restaurant. I don't care if the camera is pointed at me or not, it would be tough for me to enjoy my meal and speak freely to my tablemate(s) if someone sitting next to me had a camera filming the entire time! I mean, I take photos of my food for my liveblogs, but running a camera through an entire meal? There is plenty of debate about this over on the MSC forums right now, so I won't start the whole debate here.

 

I agree with you about La Lido Loca! Tony is my favorite cruise vlogger and the only one I watch with any regularity.

We agree!  

 

Do you know if MSC offered them a free cruise (in the YC) as a result of their video?  That's the impression I got, but it wasn't clear to me.

 

Any person(s), YouTubers or not, that are disruptive to my cruise, I would kindly ask them to stop.  If they didn't, I would report them to crew management.

 

However, if they were not "in my face", I have no issues with Vloggers or anyone doing a live pictorial review.

 

 

Edited March 12 by graphicguy

[UKstages]

8 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

I take photos of my food for my liveblogs, but running a camera through an entire meal?

 

when i was on the prima last year, at one of my meals in onda, there was a guy a few tables away who was rather disruptive filming his entire meal, with two other guests, who looked like they may have bene his parents. i couldn't hear what they were saying, but the episode was completely disruptive because he kept two bright ring lights on almost the whole meal, casting light well beyond his table. and he was wearing a rather large rig that contained the lighting and camera equipment. in my opinion, it was undignified and not in keeping with the ambience of the restaurant. i thought at the time that it should have been banned in the same way shorts and flip flops are banned.

[JamieLogical]

38 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

We agree!  

 

Do you know if MSC offered them a free cruise (in the YC) as a result of their video?  That's the impression I got, but it wasn't clear to me.

 

Any person(s), YouTubers or not, that are disruptive to my cruise, I would kindly ask them to stop.  If they didn't, I would report them to crew management.

 

However, if they were not "in my face", I have no issues with Vloggers or anyone doing a live pictorial review.

 

 

 

I believe the free cruise offer was PRIOR to this cruise as a result of their previous negative review, but as I understand it, they had turned that down and paid their own way on this sailing. I don't follow them at all, so this is all just info I picked up since "the incident."

[PATRLR]

6 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

For the whole Ben & David thing, I am pretty confident that despite their insinuations about the previous negative review, it was other YC passengers that requested MSC stop them filming. One of the other YC passengers on that sailing posted on the MSC boards that the couple was CONSTANTLY recording in the YC spaces and it was disruptive in the way that someone constantly talking on their phone or someone constantly on zoom meetings would be

Aren't those the two guys who got in a big tiff on NCL because the Haven concierge wouldn't let them eat in the Haven restaurant at a time when they felt they should be able to eat in the Haven?  As I recall, they were not staying in Haven.

Edited March 12 by PATRLR

[bkrickles1]

10 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

Aren't those the two guys who got in a big tiff on NCL because the Haven concierge wouldn't let them eat in the Haven restaurant at a time when they felt they should be able to eat in the Haven?  As I recall, they were not staying in Haven.

I do like their ice cream!! 

Lol 🤣😆😂

Cherry Garcia baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[PATRLR]

21 minutes ago, bkrickles1 said:

I do like their ice cream!! 

Lol 🤣😆😂

Cherry Garcia baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

???

[bkrickles1]

3 minutes ago, PATRLR said:

???

Sorry. It was a joke. 

Obviously just in my mind. 

Lol 😂 

[smillerholmes]

On 3/4/2024 at 1:47 PM, KansasTexan said:

I'd LOVE to have dinner with the art auction manager. But I'm an art collector who *might* just ask some pointed questions about the sales tactics and the art available on the ship. I can guarantee it would be an interesting dinner. 🙂

The Art Auction Manager was the "officer" designated for my dinner on the Sun. There were only two others and it was clear they were bored to tears - I on the other hand had a wonderful time chatting with him about his travels and some of the art/Artists he had been privileged to see/meet in person. I wouldn't consider myself a collector, but let's just say I was able to keep up with the conversation.   

 

To each their own.