Carnival Corporation Orders 5th Excel-Class Ship

[StephPS79]

3 hours ago, elcuchio24 said:

The big lines aren't going to order any smaller ships anytime soon. 

 

RCI has been hinting at a new "smaller" ship class in the works.  Of course, based on recent ships, there is speculation to what their idea of "smaller" is these days.  They haven't given much detail.

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

4 hours ago, 787cruiser said:

Im not sure why NOLA keeps getting brought up. There's no way they are going to jump to an Excel ship without trying a Dream or Vista class there first. It makes no sense!

 

I think it's fairly obvious where the 2 new excel are going. PC and Miami and don't be surprised if they take another play from the RC playbook and one of these ships is built specifically for short cruises to Celebration key. But the main point is, they'll be going to those ports so 1 excel at each port is on short cruise rotations.

 

Unless Carnival transfers Venezia and Firenze back to Costa come 27/28 I also can't seen an Excel going to NYC. Those 2 ships won't really work anywhere else than where they currently are, well perhaps Virginia?

 

Here's my prediction, im not using ship names because I think we'll see a bunch of rotations before or about the time Excel#4 joins the fleet.

 

2027

Miami 

2x Excel Class

1x Vista Class

1x Conquest Class

 

Dream class moves to Virginia OR NOLA and Conquest class moves up to Virginia.

Sunshine is Retired.

 

2028

PC

2x Excel Class

1x Dream or Vista Class

1x Conquest Class

 

1 Conquest class from PC replaces the spirit class vessel in Galveston. The Spirit class vessel will go to either Tampa or JAX to replace a retiring Fantasy vessel.

 

Galveston 2028

1x Excel

1x Dream

1x Vista or Dream

1x Conquest

 

 

Except Venezia is going to be in PC already so yes there is a chance Nola gets an Excel. 

[787cruiser]

14 minutes ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

 

Except Venezia is going to be in PC already so yes there is a chance Nola gets an Excel. 

Yeah it aint happening! 

Venezia is only there seasonally.

There's more chance of an Excel going out to the west coast and Panorama going to NOLA.

Edited March 27 by 787cruiser

[tidecat]

3 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

It is underserved. That's why the cheapest 7-day out of New Orleans on an old ship like Liberty is still more expensive than the cheapest on Luminosa, Firenze, Panorama, Magic, and Venezia. That's why NCL canceled a bunch of European cruises and a transatlantic to bring Getaway to New Orleans two months earlier this year. I'm not arguing for an Excel Class ship in New Orleans. But Dream or Vista class for sure. Especially when Long Beach has the two lowest priced Vista class ships. And one of them is "new" and hasn't even sailed yet. It's clear Long Beach is overserved. I could make a case for Excel New Orleans if they ever drop Mobile which takes a lot of passengers within two hours of New Orleans.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Norwegian-Getaway-Epic-move-to-Caribbean-in-fall

 

I'm not sure Carnival can drop Mobile. Spirit needs somewhere to work during the winter, and the only way New Orleans could accommodate a third ship is to stagger it a week from the existing 4 & 5 day cruises, or have it do 7-day cruises during the winter, which would likely push the 4 & 5 day cruises to Monday/Friday/Wednesday cycle, at least for the winter. The lack of a 3-day itinerary option in New Orleans (and for that matter, Mobile and Galveston) really ties Carnival's hands here.

 

I guess the relevant question is if the price difference between New Orleans sailings and other comparable sailings high enough to justify at least a 23% increase in capacity (i.e., Conquest class to Dream class)?

[AllgoodOnTheRoad]

Love that they are back to ordering more ships, but it is time to start raising the quality of goods and services onboard again. It was understandable after Covid, but now we should see some of that come back again. 

[mikayla73]

I thought I read Mobile is looking to do more not less? Though of course that doesn't mean CCL (or another line) would do it. Or I could be completely wrong too. 

Edited March 27 by mikayla73

[Saint Greg]

13 minutes ago, tidecat said:

I'm not sure Carnival can drop Mobile. Spirit needs somewhere to work during the winter, and the only way New Orleans could accommodate a third ship is to stagger it a week from the existing 4 & 5 day cruises, or have it do 7-day cruises during the winter, which would likely push the 4 & 5 day cruises to Monday/Friday/Wednesday cycle, at least for the winter. The lack of a 3-day itinerary option in New Orleans (and for that matter, Mobile and Galveston) really ties Carnival's hands here.

 

I guess the relevant question is if the price difference between New Orleans sailings and other comparable sailings high enough to justify at least a 23% increase in capacity (i.e., Conquest class to Dream class)?

 

I never said anything about a third ship. I was talking about replacing Liberty with bigger ship. It's nothing they haven't done before. Dream was there for a long time.

 

Edited March 27 by Saint Greg

[Saint Greg]

2 minutes ago, mikayla73 said:

I thought I read Mobile is looking to do more not less? Though of course that doesn't mean CCL (or another line) would do it.

 

They're going to need an investment to do more. Definitely more parking. It's a mess as it is. But I would love to send a conquest class ship there if they put a Dream or Vista class ship in New Orleans.

 

Edited March 27 by Saint Greg

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

11 minutes ago, 787cruiser said:

Yeah it aint happening! 

Venezia is only there seasonally.

There's more chance of an Excel going out to the west coast and Panorama going to NOLA.

You do understand that right now I can sail solo on Venezia for around $800? On a 10-11 day cruise.

 

 While solo I would be paying 1200-1800 out of Nola. 
 

prices seem to indicate which is underserved. 

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

14 minutes ago, tidecat said:

I'm not sure Carnival can drop Mobile. Spirit needs somewhere to work during the winter, and the only way New Orleans could accommodate a third ship is to stagger it a week from the existing 4 & 5 day cruises, or have it do 7-day cruises during the winter, which would likely push the 4 & 5 day cruises to Monday/Friday/Wednesday cycle, at least for the winter. The lack of a 3-day itinerary option in New Orleans (and for that matter, Mobile and Galveston) really ties Carnival's hands here.

 

I guess the relevant question is if the price difference between New Orleans sailings and other comparable sailings high enough to justify at least a 23% increase in capacity (i.e., Conquest class to Dream class)?

Spirit can go to Tampa. 

[WhaleTailFlCruiser]

8 minutes ago, AllgoodOnTheRoad said:

Love that they are back to ordering more ships, but it is time to start raising the quality of goods and services onboard again. It was understandable after Covid, but now we should see some of that come back again. 

Not likely, They are still recovering all of that money from the shutdown. 

[mikayla73]

9 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

They're going to need an investment to do more. Definitely more parking. It's a mess as it is.

By more, I mean year round, not more ships.

 

We've sailed out of there once so far, and the way they have the people dropping off people, people dropping off luggage, and people trying to park at the port going through the same spot is a huge bottle neck. Once you get past the merge of the drop off area it was normal. We also had no issues getting out, though we were off the ship quickly. The spot where everything converges to get in to park could be better for sure.

Edited March 27 by mikayla73

[elcuchio24]

19 minutes ago, AllgoodOnTheRoad said:

Love that they are back to ordering more ships, but it is time to start raising the quality of goods and services onboard again. It was understandable after Covid, but now we should see some of that come back again. 

 

That doesnt help the bottom line...;-)

[dolphinsfan246]

34 minutes ago, AllgoodOnTheRoad said:

Love that they are back to ordering more ships, but it is time to start raising the quality of goods and services onboard again. It was understandable after Covid, but now we should see some of that come back again. 

The rest of the world hasn’t, so why would they 🤪 It would be nice though. 

[Saint Greg]

32 minutes ago, mikayla73 said:

By more, I mean year round, not more ships.

 

We've sailed out of there once so far, and the way they have the people dropping off people, people dropping off luggage, and people trying to park at the port going through the same spot is a huge bottle neck. Once you get past the merge of the drop off area it was normal. We also had no issues getting out, though we were off the ship quickly. The spot where everything converges to get in to park could be better for sure.

 

Well there's only one parking option. The line to get in the garage went all the way back to the interstate and up the ramp. I came from the other direction so I had to go all the way down, make a U-turn and force my way into the line. They don't start letting people in until people start coming out so I have seen posts about it being an issue if debarkation is delayed. Then once inside I had to sit in my car and wait for the people in front of me to get out and unload all of their suitcases before I could park. I waited until after the rush to leave the ship so I don't know how it would've been earlier.

 

It's unlikely I'll ever cruise from Mobile again but if I do I will check into one of the park and cruise hotels for sure.

 

Edited March 27 by Saint Greg

[mikayla73]

1 minute ago, Saint Greg said:

 

Well there's only one parking option. The line to get in the garage went all the way back to the interstate and up the ramp. I came from the other direction so I had to go all the way down, make a U-turn and force my way into the line. They don't start letting people in until people start coming out so I have seen posts about it being an issue if debarkation is delayed. Then once inside I had to sit in my car and wait for the people in front of me to get out and unload all of their suitcases before I could park. I waited until after the rush to leave the ship so I don't know how it would've been earlier.

We came from the other side, so just joined the line. Which I read they may turn you away if you try to get in line too early, before 9:30a or 10a maybe? Then yes sitting to wait for the people to unload their luggage when all I wanted to do was park. All that for sure could be made better.

[Saint Greg]

8 minutes ago, mikayla73 said:

We came from the other side, so just joined the line. Which I read they may turn you away if you try to get in line too early, before 9:30a or 10a maybe? Then yes sitting to wait for the people to unload their luggage when all I wanted to do was park. All that for sure could be made better.

 

I have read about people getting turned away for being too early or because of a debarkation delay. Not sure where they go in that case since I don't know that area very well. In my case I got in the line at 10:30. I'm not sure what time I got parked but I was in the port at 11:11.

[Itried4498]

5 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

It is underserved. That's why the cheapest 7-day out of New Orleans on an old ship like Liberty is still more expensive than the cheapest on Luminosa, Firenze, Panorama, Magic, and Venezia. That's why NCL canceled a bunch of European cruises and a transatlantic to bring Getaway to New Orleans two months earlier this year. I'm not arguing for an Excel Class ship in New Orleans. But Dream or Vista class for sure. Especially when Long Beach has the two lowest priced Vista class ships. And one of them is "new" and hasn't even sailed yet. It's clear Long Beach is overserved. I could make a case for Excel New Orleans if they ever drop Mobile which takes a lot of passengers within two hours of New Orleans.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Norwegian-Getaway-Epic-move-to-Caribbean-in-fall

 

 

But again, you're largely basing your conclusions off one-off teaser rates.

If I price a 7-night cruise for four people (two adults & two teens) on the Firenze out of Long Beach in October, interior & balcony rooms are running about a TOTAL of $100 less then the Marid Gras and Celebration (both of which have higher taxes & fees, so the actual difference is less).

 

If I compare an 8-night cruise on the Panorama to a 7-night on the MG and 8-night on the Celebration next summer, the Panorama is running $300-$400 cheaper for an interior, but balcony prices are between $100 less and $200 more.

 

If I look at 6-night cruises on the Firenze during Feb/Mar 26 vs a similar cruise on the Vista out of PC, interiors are running $100-$300 less but balconies are going for $100 less to $100 more.  

 

So yes, interiors tend to sell less at LB, but balconies, suites, etc. are on par with the newest ships.  Supplement for the third and fourth person is often more out of LB than Florida.  And RCL said the LA-based Navigator was generating among the highest per person, per day auxiliary spending in the network.  

 

If you dig deeper, I don't think things are as they appear.  

[Saint Greg]

23 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

But again, you're largely basing your conclusions off one-off teaser rates.

If I price a 7-night cruise for four people (two adults & two teens) on the Firenze out of Long Beach in October, interior & balcony rooms are running about a TOTAL of $100 less then the Marid Gras and Celebration (both of which have higher taxes & fees, so the actual difference is less).

 

If I compare an 8-night cruise on the Panorama to a 7-night on the MG and 8-night on the Celebration next summer, the Panorama is running $300-$400 cheaper for an interior, but balcony prices are between $100 less and $200 more.

 

If I look at 6-night cruises on the Firenze during Feb/Mar 26 vs a similar cruise on the Vista out of PC, interiors are running $100-$300 less but balconies are going for $100 less to $100 more.  

 

So yes, interiors tend to sell less at LB, but balconies, suites, etc. are on par with the newest ships.  Supplement for the third and fourth person is often more out of LB than Florida.  And RCL said the LA-based Navigator was generating among the highest per person, per day auxiliary spending in the network.  

 

If you dig deeper, I don't think things are as they appear.  

 

What I know is I'm always looking for the cheapest price on an interior and Panorama is always at the top of the list. It's been that way for years. And now Firenze is right up there with it.

 

Fine... I decided to do a little random search I wouldn't normally do. A balcony for four during the summer. I first tried fourth of July but it's sold out. So I decided the last week of July. I came out with a total of $3,652 on Panorama. And $3,619 on Liberty.

 

So in that case the really old ship with no bells and whistles..not even a waterpark for the kids...is selling for the same price as the much newer Panorama.

 

Let's do Firenze and Valor on the 5-day that same week. 

 

Valor $3,190

Firenze $2,732

 

Unfortunately I don't have time to search for every category on every cruise for the entire year, but I've seen enough over the years to have a good idea of how it would come out.

 

 

 

Edited March 27 by Saint Greg

[Itried4498]

7 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

What I know is I'm always looking for the cheapest price on an interior and Panorama is always at the top of the list. It's been that way for years. And now Firenze is right up there with it.

 

Fine... I decided to do a little random search I wouldn't normally do. A balcony for four during the summer. I first tried fourth of July but it's sold out. So I decided the last week of July. I came out with a total of $3,652 on Panorama. And $3,619 on Liberty.

 

So in that case the really old ship with no bells and whistles..not even a waterpark for the kids...is selling for the same price as the much newer Panorama.

 

Let's do Firenze and Valor on the 5-day that same week. 

 

Valor $3,190

Firenze $2,732

 

Unfortunately I don't have time to search for every category on every cruise for the entire year, but I've seen enough over the years to have a good idea of how it would come out.

 

 

 

 

I didn't compare New Orleans; it often has higher pricing than PC/FLL/Miami at the moment and I'm not convinced it's demand based.  RCL's published prices for New Orleans and Tampa are high, but there's heavy discounts (and/or incentives) if you purchase through select travel agents, which isn't something I've seen before.  Disney is exiting (its limited presence) from New Orleans and per some unconfirmed reports, auxiliary revenues were poor.

 

 

[Saint Greg]

5 minutes ago, Itried4498 said:

 

I didn't compare New Orleans; it often has higher pricing than PC/FLL/Miami at the moment and I'm not convinced it's demand based.  RCL's published prices for New Orleans and Tampa are high, but there's heavy discounts (and/or incentives) if you purchase through select travel agents, which isn't something I've seen before.  Disney is exiting (its limited presence) from New Orleans and per some unconfirmed reports, auxiliary revenues were poor.

 

 

My argument has been New Orleans should have a vista class ship before Long Beach should’ve had two. So it makes sense to compare the two. If you know of any TA discounts for cruising out of New Orleans on Carnival, please send them my way.

[bmc alabama]

9 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

 

They're going to need an investment to do more. Definitely more parking. It's a mess as it is. But I would love to send a conquest class ship there if they put a Dream or Vista class ship in New Orleans.

 

Well, I know that they've been working on the turning basin, which should be completed soon, and I believe that the city is working on an additional parking there (but that won't be done quickly)

 

https://www.alreporter.com/2021/05/21/port-of-mobile-deepening-widening-to-be-completed-by-2025/

Edited March 28 by bmc alabama

[jimbo5544]

14 hours ago, WhaleTailFlCruiser said:

Not likely, They are still recovering all of that money from the shutdown. 

How quickly some forget what 30 billion in the hole is…..

[jimbo5544]

12 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

My argument has been New Orleans should have a vista class ship before Long Beach should’ve had two. So it makes sense to compare the two. If you know of any TA discounts for cruising out of New Orleans on Carnival, please send them my way.

Might get your wish, but it will take some time.

[Itried4498]

21 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

My argument has been New Orleans should have a vista class ship before Long Beach should’ve had two. So it makes sense to compare the two. If you know of any TA discounts for cruising out of New Orleans on Carnival, please send them my way.

 

I understand your argument.  Looking at 2025, New Orleans consistently has higher fares than Orlando and Miami.  If published fares told the entire story, it makes no sense Carnival is adding capacity to PC, LB, etc. but not NO.  Post-pandemic, fares have soared at many of the secondary ports and I doubt it's pure demand driven.  You can maximize revenues by selling a product at an inflated price and highly restricting discounts to select groups.