Is this discrimination

[Megabear2]

4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

If you book via a TA then the form is definitely not completed as part of the booking process, because that is done by the TA, whereas the form has to be completed by the passenger.

I think you misunderstand me.  I completed both forms online myself.  The agent making my booking for Aurora asked the mandatory question about mobility and walking aids and said that my husband would require one to one assistance as the very minimum.  When my booking confirmation came through it was there in  big letters at the top and indicating I should complete the form immediately.  The other booking for Britannia (a fly cruise) the booking agent asked the mandatory question, asked if we needed airport assistance and when I explained my husband's illness just said I should complete the form due to the walking stick.  When that confirmation came through it was not marked as one to one assistance being mandatory, in fact there was absolutely nothing on it indicating it was not a straightforward normal booking.  My cruise personaliser/itinerary was also not marked.  When I completed the form with identical information it was accepted and marked beside my husband's name "Form submitted "x" date" but there was no indication as to what action if any, the submission had triggered. I monitored this for quite a while and nothing changed, then all these problems started to appear on CC and in the press and conscious of it being I fly cruise where denied boarding would be in Barbados, I emailed the Carnival team to ask for confirmation that sufficient help was being allocated under their rules. The reply stated I should resubmit the form requesting one to one.  On doing this a new confirmation was triggered which states Mandatory one to one assistance in an emergency.

[Bubbeh]

On 5/20/2024 at 2:25 AM, Windsurfboy said:

As for children then the primeval instinct  kicks in , I can't imagine many mothers not making their way straight to kids club.

Not me!  When my kids were young I would have thought now's my chance!  😁

[yorkshirephil]

8 hours ago, Bubbeh said:

Not me!  When my kids were young I would have thought now's my chance!  😁

Unfortunately the kids club staff make you take them back.

[Waju]

Morning everyone, I’m just completing my paperwork for our cruise in a couple of weeks and was expecting to see a form asking about mobility but I can’t see it? Is it only there if in an accessible cabin is requested?

[solentsam]

2 minutes ago, Waju said:

Morning everyone, I’m just completing my paperwork for our cruise in a couple of weeks and was expecting to see a form asking about mobility but I can’t see it? Is it only there if in an accessible cabin is requested?

Hi it is in the before you sail section. on-bord needs

[Waju]

59 minutes ago, solentsam said:

Hi it is in the before you sail section. on-bord needs

I must be having a blonde day, I’m still not seeing it!  I’ll try again later when I have more time.

[Megabear2]

7 minutes ago, Waju said:

I must be having a blonde day, I’m still not seeing it!  I’ll try again later when I have more time.

If you are taking anything mobility related onboard do it as soon as possible as apparently they are limiting numbers of certain aids.

 

Click into before you sail. Mobility needs is to the right and them form is within that tab

[solentsam]

 

9 minutes ago, Waju said:

I must be having a blonde day, I’m still not seeing it!  I’ll try again later when I have more time.

reading from left to right you should have

 

PERSONAL DETAILS 

IMPORTANT TO KNOW 

LIFE ON BOARD 

ON-BOARD NEEDS

 

 

so it should be over on the right.

[yorkshirephil]

29 minutes ago, Waju said:

I must be having a blonde day, I’m still not seeing it!  I’ll try again later when I have more time.

It is in the "before you sail" section

Edited May 21 by yorkshirephil

[Waju]

Thank you all for your help, I've found it now.

 

I had a nasty foot injury last September and used crutches/walking stick for a while.  I don't use either at all now but was thinking about taking a little fold up stick in my case - After reading this thread I'm not going to bother as I'm 99.9% sure I wouldn't use it. 

[wendover]

I should have been enjoying our first evening on Aurora. A Mediterranean cruise to celebrate my 77th birthday. We were very much looking forward to our cruise especially as it was on Aurora. We have had so many lovely cruises on her. However, this cruise was not to be. There was an unpleasant feeling when we went to get help with boarding. Something just wasn't right and everyone knew except us. We were deftly handed from one person to another and then told that I wouldn't be allowed on board because I hadn't been allocated an evacuation chair and staff to help me. We were astounded. We book our cruises very much in advance as I need an adapted cabin and they seem to get booked very early on. I am a full-time wheelchair user and have always found it very easy to get around Aurora on my own, so it is a real holiday for both of us. I had spent days researching every port, to make sure we didn't miss any accessible places. We were (in short) prepared for the cruise, more than ready for a holiday, and looking forward to it all SO MUCH! Now, back at home, we are unravelling all the complicated arrangements we had made with friends and family who were going to look after/use our house while we were away, it is so complicated, I can't explain. We are completely devastated, beyond words.

[S1971]

4 minutes ago, wendover said:

I should have been enjoying our first evening on Aurora. A Mediterranean cruise to celebrate my 77th birthday. We were very much looking forward to our cruise especially as it was on Aurora. We have had so many lovely cruises on her. However, this cruise was not to be. There was an unpleasant feeling when we went to get help with boarding. Something just wasn't right and everyone knew except us. We were deftly handed from one person to another and then told that I wouldn't be allowed on board because I hadn't been allocated an evacuation chair and staff to help me. We were astounded. We book our cruises very much in advance as I need an adapted cabin and they seem to get booked very early on. I am a full-time wheelchair user and have always found it very easy to get around Aurora on my own, so it is a real holiday for both of us. I had spent days researching every port, to make sure we didn't miss any accessible places. We were (in short) prepared for the cruise, more than ready for a holiday, and looking forward to it all SO MUCH! Now, back at home, we are unravelling all the complicated arrangements we had made with friends and family who were going to look after/use our house while we were away, it is so complicated, I can't explain. We are completely devastated, beyond words.

 

So sorry to hear this, I take it you weren't advised at time of booking that the form would need to be completed?

 

Given you'd booked an accessible cabin one would think it would flag up immediately before proceeding to booking completion, if not then reminder emails requesting you log into your account clearly stating no completed form then no boarding.

 

 

[david63]

This, in my opinion, is just another of the ever growing examples of an ill, unfit for purpose, policy.

 

I am not saying that the policy is wrong but that they way in which it is being administered especially for cruises booked before the changes were introduced  needs some urgent attention and somebody high up the food chain needs to take this in hand.

 

The one caveat that I would add about this latest incident is that we do not know if there was any communication between P&O and the passenger and/or their TA prior to the cruise.

[S1971]

9 minutes ago, david63 said:

The one caveat that I would add about this latest incident is that we do not know if there was any communication between P&O and the passenger and/or their TA prior to the cruise.

 

Given P&O's recent history it's probably been introduced without advanced warning to those already booked as they did with the no alcohol to be taken onboard policy.

 

God only knows what's happened to them recently, but it's not good.

[Windsurfboy]

One would think every adapted cabin would be allocated a evacuation chair, or why would you want or  more importantly be allowed to have an adapted cabin. People in adapted cabins are clearly or should be most in need of help

 

Surely if you tick need adapted cabin, you should be forced to fill in the form, ideally straightaway, I'd say if form is not filled in within 4 weeks deposit returned.  Clearly should be told as you book, P&O would have to send a reminder after 2 weeks and a final demand after 3 weeks. Final payment should not  be taken from anyone who has an adapted cabin without  filling in form. 

 

As is said above we do not know what communication happened between P&O and the passenger. How many requests did they or their travel agent get, if any. Without this knowledge cannot allocate blame.. Except to say P&O should have sorted this out one way or other well before boarding day.

[david63]

18 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

Surely if you tick need adapted cabin, you should be forced to fill in the form, ideally straightaway, I'd say if form is not filled in within 4 weeks deposit returned.  Clearly should be told as you book, P&O would have to send a reminder after 2 weeks and a final demand after 3 weeks. Final payment should not  be taken from anyone who has an adapted cabin without  filling in form.

I would not disagree with that but the issue in this, and several other cases, is that the revised policy was introduced well after (in some cases years) the booking was made and it would appear that nobody looked at it retrospectively.

[Windsurfboy]

38 minutes ago, david63 said:

I would not disagree with that but the issue in this, and several other cases, is that the revised policy was introduced well after (in some cases years) the booking was made and it would appear that nobody looked at it retrospectively.

 

Yes but part one of my response was that surely adapted cabins should have been automatically allocated an evacuation chair irrespective of the form.

 

For forward booking form is compulsory and immediate 

[Selbourne]

1 hour ago, wendover said:

I should have been enjoying our first evening on Aurora. A Mediterranean cruise to celebrate my 77th birthday. We were very much looking forward to our cruise especially as it was on Aurora. We have had so many lovely cruises on her. However, this cruise was not to be. There was an unpleasant feeling when we went to get help with boarding. Something just wasn't right and everyone knew except us. We were deftly handed from one person to another and then told that I wouldn't be allowed on board because I hadn't been allocated an evacuation chair and staff to help me. We were astounded. We book our cruises very much in advance as I need an adapted cabin and they seem to get booked very early on. I am a full-time wheelchair user and have always found it very easy to get around Aurora on my own, so it is a real holiday for both of us. I had spent days researching every port, to make sure we didn't miss any accessible places. We were (in short) prepared for the cruise, more than ready for a holiday, and looking forward to it all SO MUCH! Now, back at home, we are unravelling all the complicated arrangements we had made with friends and family who were going to look after/use our house while we were away, it is so complicated, I can't explain. We are completely devastated, beyond words.

I am truly sorry to hear about this. As others have said, it should be obvious if you have been allowed to book an accessible cabin that you need assistance.  
 

However, may I ask one critical question? Had you completed and submitted the “On Board Needs Questionnaire”, which is now compulsory, and on that form ticked that you would need 1:1 assistance?
 

Up until now, it seems that those who have been denied boarding had failed to do so. If we start to hear about people being denied boarding who had correctly completed and submitted the form then that’s a whole new issue. 

[S1971]

18 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

Yes but part one of my response was that surely adapted cabins should have been automatically allocated an evacuation chair irrespective of the form.

 

For forward booking form is compulsory and immediate 

 

I'm not totally sure, but I suspect the allocation of an evac chair for ALL recorded disabled passengers is part of the new compulsory policy?

 

So some bookings before may have been overlooked or missed by P&O or correspondence ignored by the passenger?

 

Edited June 4 by S1971

[Windsurfboy]

5 minutes ago, S1971 said:

 

I'm not totally sure, but I suspect the allocation of an evac chair for ALL recorded disabled passengers is part of the new compulsory policy?

 

So some bookings before may have been overlooked or missed by P&O or correspondence ignored by the passenger?

 

 

Agree a c*ck up , but it's takes gross stupidity/negligence not to notice someone is in an adapted cabin. When the new system came in surely a simple rule allocating evacuation chair for all adapted cabins was obvious. 

 

[solentsam]

 

3 minutes ago, S1971 said:

So some bookings before may have been overlooked or missed by P&O or correspondence ignored by the passenger?

Yes that may be true we nearly fell foul to tha,t as in up to feb 2023 we always used to fill in the download questionnaire and send it by e-mail to accessibility@carnivalukgroup.com after our last one in feb 2023 we received an e-mail from them saying please fill in on-board needs questionnaire and I thought what are they on about I have already sent it. Luckily I reread it properly and realised it said that the old system using the pdf was now superseded by the on line form so I filled in all the details again. But we could been denied boarding if we didnt read it again.

[S1971]

5 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

When the new system came in surely a simple rule allocating evacuation chair for all adapted cabins was obvious

 

You'd like to think so wouldn't you, but that would be to easy.

[david63]

12 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

it's takes gross stupidity/negligence not to notice someone is in an adapted cabin

These days it would appear that there is an abundance of that around, and not just with P&O!

[S1971]

9 minutes ago, solentsam said:

 

Yes that may be true we nearly fell foul to tha,t as in up to feb 2023 we always used to fill in the download questionnaire and send it by e-mail to accessibility@carnivalukgroup.com after our last one in feb 2023 we received an e-mail from them saying please fill in on-board needs questionnaire and I thought what are they on about I have already sent it. Luckily I reread it properly and realised it said that the old system using the pdf was now superseded by the on line form so I filled in all the details again. But we could been denied boarding if we didnt read it again.

 

Fortunately you had the oversight to read it again, I suspect many done like you nearly did and thought it was a duplicate and ignored it, a very easy mistake to make, especially if it wasn't sent with high importance or similar.

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

So the key point  is, at the original booking were they asked to fill in the form and how many  requests have there been since.

 

If the answer is NO and NO reminders then P&O are in the wrong and liable 

 

If the answers is YES and MANY reminders don't blame P&O