Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[whitecap]

1 minute ago, TRLD said:

Pretty clear such payments are part of their employment contract.

Let me try one last time:  If your paid gratuities goes into a pool and Princess, at their sole discretion, decides who gets a slice of the pie, how do you know that your room steward, who did a wonderful job, got a slice?  

[kirtihk]

7 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

We're on a Princess cruise at the moment.  There is a separate 'gratuities' line entry on every food / beverage / service bill (typically 18 per cent, but adjustable).  That is the equivalent of what you are referring to in terms of land-based restaurants, not the crew appreciation / service charge that this thread was about originally.

That means (good to know) that instead of 1 "extra charge" item (that used to be a part of cruising expenses and on the cruise invoice with a choice of pre-paid gratuities) besides 3 regular items (cruise fair, port charges, and taxes), now there are 2 of them (gratuities AND crew appreciation / service charge).

Edited May 29 by kirtihk

[cruising.mark.uk]

1 hour ago, dreaminofcruisin said:

 

Really curious what ship and what location of the world you are now sailing?

I haven't seen a service bill where one would be able to add a gratuity since before covid, especially not in bars, but also in specialty restaurants.....

Where are you seeing this?

 

I didn't mean that the bill gave the opportunity to add a gratuity; I meant that the gratuity was broken out on the bill, in the same way as it would be (in the UK) at a restaurant.

 

We're on the Caribbean, TA and now Baltic.  We're on the Plus package.  When we get a drink of service not covered by the package, the amount of the gratuity is specified on the bill. 

[cruising.mark.uk]

19 minutes ago, whitecap said:

Let me try one last time:  If your paid gratuities goes into a pool and Princess, at their sole discretion, decides who gets a slice of the pie, how do you know that your room steward, who did a wonderful job, got a slice?  

If you feel the need to have definitive proof, perhaps you could ask your room steward whether they receive payments from the crew appreciation pool?

 

Perhaps at the same time you might ask the Captain if they have been paid their salary that month.  After all, crew salaries are paid from a pool of monies paid by customers and its at the sole discretion of Princess whether they pay staff salaries or not, so maybe they don't.

Edited May 29 by cruising.mark.uk

[Dcopperfield]

It frustrates me to no end how corporations find it acceptable to rely on the goodwill of customers to pay their staff a living wage.

 

Like many other posters have said - raise cruise fares in the interests of transparency and drop this nonsense.

 

I operate a hospitality business in the UK, pay all staff above the real living wage and any tips they receive are theirs on top of their salary. Tips should be for exceptional service - not a grey area to cover the shortfall in wages because a multi-billion corporation chooses to pay it's staff a pittance.

 

The 'American' way of subsidizing staff salaries by way of gratuities is an absolutely baffling practice. 

 

I guess they're addressing this with the plus and premier packages and, through the fullness of time, we will see the standard fare disappear.

 

 

 

 

[whitecap]

9 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

If you feel the need to have definitive proof, perhaps you could ask your room steward whether they receive payments from the crew appreciation pool?

 

Perhaps at the same time you might ask the Captain if they have been paid their salary that month.  After all, crew salaries are paid from a pool of monies paid by customers and its at the sole discretion of Princess whether they pay staff salaries or not, so maybe they don't.

Now that is funny....Ok, I have reconsidered all that some of you have said and I have decided that:  I will continue to remove the gratuities and handed out "tips" to those aboard my ship who do a really good job of making my vacation wonderful.  As for anyone else, keep putting your money into the pool and hope that the captain did get his paycheck and isn't actually taking the ship home to hold as a lien!  😃

[Cruise Raider]

Not reading through this whole thread for the skinny on complaints and comments, but we’ve discretely spoken to crew members about how they are compensated since the restart.  
Because some embarkation ports were extremely restrictive since July 2021, the crew have been getting paid based on the seemingly new policy of ‘crew appreciation’ that’s pays them a salary based on their job duties.  It seemed very fair to them as they couldn’t count on the same money to come in via passenger tips on a ship with only 200 passengers vs another ship that had 2000 passengers onboard.  Why would anybody want to work on those ships with so few passengers, as we were seeing out of California, when they could had requested to work on a ship out of Florida, which much fewer passenger restrictions just to board?  
Along this train of thought, the title for ‘gratuities’ eventually became ‘crew appreciation’ as it was directly used for the crew’s salaries but also encompassed those that haven’t been on the front lines to serve you directly but those behind the scenes to make your overall experience better.   Their salaries are no longer a mere pittance and even though we might think they are in the US and Canada but they seem to be happy overall with the money they make and can send home, where it is worth a lot more than it is in any 1st world country.  Just like in the SF Bay Area, you really need to make at least $150K -$200K a year to live comfortably.  But, in Arkansas or Mississippi, you could live like a king with that type of salary.  You have to compare the cost of living for an accurate depiction of how much they really make and the value of their salary based on where they live.  
With that being said, they did get to keep all the cash tips you give to them.  Many we’ve seen decide to share with their direct workmates!  If you strictly ask them to keep it for themselves or their kids, I’m sure they will respect your wishes .. otherwise, we’ve seen it thrown into a communal pot.  
Lastly, in no way shape or means am I trying to say they don’t work very hard for their money.  They work harder than any of my coworkers in any job I’ve ever had and not only is it hard work but it is all without being able to see their families for months on end.  

The crew working behind the grill up by the pool works as hard as anyone else and nobody thinks to tip him.  We did once and he noticed it was the first time he ever got a tip.  I know tipping is a cultural thing in many fellow passenger’s view, and I would never really suggest to anyone it is their obligation to tip extra, however, I would never ever even think about removing the crew appreciation from my account.  It just seems so wrong!  Again, my opinion!   

Edited May 29 by Cruise Raider

[JimmyVWine]

1 hour ago, whitecap said:

When you pay the "Crew Appreciation" how can one determine if the room steward, dining room staff, buffet staff, laundry personnel or anyone else actually received any part of the gratuities you paid?

 

46 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Exactly how much any one employee gets from the pool would not be known, just as  what any employee in any given company makes would not be public.

This.  We all tend to look at the gratuity issue in a myopic and time-limited fashion. 

"That guy delivered my drink in record time.  He serves a big fat tip." 

But from the employer's standpoint, they want constant, consistent high quality service.  Ever hear of an "Employee of the Month" recipient?  Sure you have.  Ever hear of an "Employee of the Minute" recipient?  Nope.  The guy who was great with your drink may have completely bolloxed up someone else's pizza delivery order.  You don't know.  Which is why employee comment cards are way more important than a couple of buck palmed into the server's hand.  The Team Leader is going to observe performance over a longer span, to a larger audience, and compile what she observes, coupling that with comments, both positive and negative, that are received over time.  Then, and only then does the following statement make sense. "The pooled funds are distributed throughout the year in the form of compensation, including bonuses, to crewmembers fleetwide who interact directly with guests and/or behind the scenes throughout every cruise, including those in the Bar, Dining, Entertainment, Housekeeping, Guest Services, Galley and Onboard Revenue areas."  If you are the employer, you would want to reward performance over time, not in the moment.  Sure, each moment is a brick in the wall.  But you want to see the employee build a wall--not lay a brick.  And if you are the employee, you should want the same thing.  If I bust my hump 24/7/365, I want a bigger reward than than my co-worker who takes naps when he should be delivering drinks, but on that one occasion when you were on board, he performed in a way that one person, for whatever reason, found to be exemplary.

[JimmyVWine]

41 minutes ago, whitecap said:

Let me try one last time:  If your paid gratuities goes into a pool and Princess, at their sole discretion, decides who gets a slice of the pie, how do you know that your room steward, who did a wonderful job, got a slice?  

You don't.  And for the reasons in the post above.  That person you are trying to reward may have impressed you, but ticked off every other person with whom they came into contact.  You have no way of knowing that.  It should be up to the employer to determine who gets more money, not the passenger.  But if you fill out a comment card or make it known to a supervisor that you received above-and-beyond service, that will certainly factor in to the equation.

[dreaminofcruisin]

34 minutes ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I didn't mean that the bill gave the opportunity to add a gratuity; I meant that the gratuity was broken out on the bill, in the same way as it would be (in the UK) at a restaurant.

 

We're on the Caribbean, TA and now Baltic.  We're on the Plus package.  When we get a drink of service not covered by the package, the amount of the gratuity is specified on the bill. 

 

Really? So, you actually get a piece of paper that tells you the amount not covered by the package? I've never seen this....would really like it actually as it would be just nice to know when something isn't included and would explain a small mystery charge or two.....

 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, JGmf said:

Uggh.

 

The policy is not new.

 

People who are overly clever and don't pay the DSC/gratuity add-on under the guise of being clever, sanctimonious, and/or "know better who to tip and who not to" are just being cheap. 

 

Sorry, paying the DSC/gratuity is just the cost of the cruise, baked into the business model.

Awful deliberately misleading business model

 

It's the cruise line being clever and cheap actually

[c-boy]

18 minutes ago, Dcopperfield said:

The 'American' way of subsidizing staff salaries by way of gratuities is an absolutely baffling practice. 

It works , and for those engaged in the service industry here aren't complaining about it.

[Seafan22]

Many people are saying just make the gratutity - or whatever any cruiseline chooses to call it - part of the price.  California's new 'Honest Pricing Law' will have a profound impact how cruise lines market in the US.  The law, which takes effect July 1, makes it illegal for businesses, including cruise lines operating in the state, to advertise or list a price that doesn't include all fees and charges.  Since advertising goes national, this may mean that we will soon all see bottomline pricing for cruises.

 

[JimmyVWine]

2 minutes ago, c-boy said:

It works , and for those engaged in the service industry here aren't complaining about it.

A point that is too often overlooked.  There are some here who seem to think that there is a worker-led revolution brewing and mutiny plots being hatched.  Not happening.  In fact, many of the servers in the Danny Meyer Restaurant group were not happy when they went to a "living wage" model.  Those who worked at Gramercy Tavern where servers were routinely handling tables running up $2,000 bills, they'd much rather have a 20%-25% tip on $2,000 than the "living wage."   

[Sunwanabe]

Like other service oriented jobs that include a tipping program for part of their compensation, in the end it's the employees decision to work in those companies knowing the compensation given.       

[JimmyVWine]

3 minutes ago, Seafan22 said:

California's new 'Honest Pricing Law' will have a profound impact how cruise lines market in the US.

When was the last time Princess quoted a price on its website that did not show all taxes and port fees?  I'm looking at an invoice right now.  It shows "Fare"; "Taxes , Fees & Port Expenses" and then the "Total Fare."  The invoice then goes on to state in clear language that Guests 1 & 2 will receive the Premier Package and then goes on to describe what that includes, mentioning Crew Appreciation by name.  That is all that is required.  Now, one might argue that my current invoice is showing all of that because of Princess' attempt to comply with CA's new law, but this invoice doesn't look any different than ones from many years ago.  

[c-boy]

16 minutes ago, Seafan22 said:

Many people are saying just make the gratutity - or whatever any cruiseline chooses to call it - part of the price.  California's new 'Honest Pricing Law' will have a profound impact how cruise lines market in the US.  The law, which takes effect July 1, makes it illegal for businesses, including cruise lines operating in the state, to advertise or list a price that doesn't include all fees and charges.  Since advertising goes national, this may mean that we will soon all see bottomline pricing for cruises.

 

😄 California, the only state to shoot itself in the foot, and then hand the gun over to somebody else to reload.

[Cruise Raider]

7 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

When was the last time Princess quoted a price on its website that did not show all taxes and port fees?  I'm looking at an invoice right now.  It shows "Fare"; "Taxes , Fees & Port Expenses" and then the "Total Fare."  The invoice then goes on to state in clear language that Guests 1 & 2 will receive the Premier Package and then goes on to describe what that includes, mentioning Crew Appreciation by name.  That is all that is required.  Now, one might argue that my current invoice is showing all of that because of Princess' attempt to comply with CA's new law, but this invoice doesn't look any different than ones from many years ago.  

The new law goes into effect on July 1st.  I think it will go by the way of the airlines that when you look up a price, it already includes all those taxes and fees.  So, when I look up airfare, the full price of all the mandatory fees already shows as soon as I look it up .. it is later broken down by actual airfare and the mandatory fees.  

Although Princess does show the fees right below the pricing structure, you have to go a step further, even with a dummy booking, to get the full price.  I bet those law makers are just patting themselves on the back here in California for coming up with that.  It’s really not hard to figure it out with how it currently is handled.  

Not sure if it will include the crew appreciation, as it isn’t a mandatory inclusion.  
 

[SCX22]

So much discussion over this...

If you don't agree with the wages and how the "crew appreciation," "Daily Service Charge," or whatever you want to call it is distributed, it's probably a good idea to stop cruising.  There's a reason why cruise lines decide to register their ships in the countries they register them in--to avoid labor laws.  Cruising has had this necessary evil since since the conception of major mass market cruise lines.  At the end of the day you're giving the crew wages which is keeping them away from government help in their countries and having to beg for money on the street (ahem, America).  They come from countries where the economy is not robust enough to give all those looking for employment a job and/or a livable wage.  

[JimmyVWine]

6 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

Not sure if it will include the crew appreciation, as it isn’t a mandatory inclusion.

Even when I have not purchased a Package, my printouts from PCL disclose what the Gratuity policy and pricing is. 

[Cruise Raider]

1 minute ago, JimmyVWine said:

Even when I have not purchased a Package, my printouts from PCL disclose what the Gratuity policy and pricing is. 

I meant to say, I’m not sure if it will be in the overall pricing shown when you first look up the cost for a cruise.  
 

[JimmyVWine]

3 minutes ago, Cruise Raider said:

I meant to say, I’m not sure if it will be in the overall pricing shown when you first look up the cost for a cruise.  
 

FWIW, here is Carnival Corp.'s official statement on the subject, intended to cover all of its brands:

 

Carnival Corp. & plc "has decided to take a uniform approach for its brands doing business in North America, so pricing is consistent no matter where guests are shopping," a spokesperson said. "Our total advertised price will now include all government-mandated taxes, fees and port expenses that we previously itemized separately for consumer awareness. While this is a California state law, we are making this change nationwide to ensure our advertised pricing is consistent no matter where guests shop for our cruises. Consumers and travel advisors will see the new advertised pricing starting on July 1."

 

The company already notified travel advisor partners on April 17 about its plans to comply so they would have time to consider steps they need to take.

 

"Fortunately, despite how our prices will now be advertised, the total price guests pay today for our cruises has not changed — guests still get the same great value and affordable prices we’ve always provided," Carnival said in a statement.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

18 minutes ago, JimmyVWine said:

FWIW, here is Carnival Corp.'s official statement on the subject, intended to cover all of its brands:

 

Carnival Corp. & plc "has decided to take a uniform approach for its brands doing business in North America, so pricing is consistent no matter where guests are shopping," a spokesperson said. "Our total advertised price will now include all government-mandated taxes, fees and port expenses that we previously itemized separately for consumer awareness. While this is a California state law, we are making this change nationwide to ensure our advertised pricing is consistent no matter where guests shop for our cruises. Consumers and travel advisors will see the new advertised pricing starting on July 1."

 

The company already notified travel advisor partners on April 17 about its plans to comply so they would have time to consider steps they need to take.

 

"Fortunately, despite how our prices will now be advertised, the total price guests pay today for our cruises has not changed — guests still get the same great value and affordable prices we’ve always provided," Carnival said in a statement.

 

Thanks for posting this Carnival statement. Starting July 1, I'll have to adjust the way I do my daily "cruise fare comparisons" to determine if one of our bookings has either gone down or up in price. Without this knowledge, I would have just "assumed" that all of the Princess and HAL "cruise fare" prices associated with our bookings had simply just gone up in price. Thanks! 

[Interestedcruisefan]

1 hour ago, Seafan22 said:

Many people are saying just make the gratutity - or whatever any cruiseline chooses to call it - part of the price.  California's new 'Honest Pricing Law' will have a profound impact how cruise lines market in the US.  The law, which takes effect July 1, makes it illegal for businesses, including cruise lines operating in the state, to advertise or list a price that doesn't include all fees and charges.  Since advertising goes national, this may mean that we will soon all see bottomline pricing for cruises.

 

It's happening everywhere and was inevitable it would happen to cruiselines which are clearly operating in the dark ages in this respect 

 

It happened in UK a few years ago now

[Interestedcruisefan]

46 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

So much discussion over this...

If you don't agree with the wages and how the "crew appreciation," "Daily Service Charge," or whatever you want to call it is distributed, it's probably a good idea to stop cruising.  There's a reason why cruise lines decide to register their ships in the countries they register them in--to avoid labor laws.  Cruising has had this necessary evil since since the conception of major mass market cruise lines.  At the end of the day you're giving the crew wages which is keeping them away from government help in their countries and having to beg for money on the street (ahem, America).  They come from countries where the economy is not robust enough to give all those looking for employment a job and/or a livable wage.  

So how come P and O cruises can pay staff fair wages  without relying on passengers subsidising?

 

We've not had to give up cruising with them?

 

Why can't Princess make a business model work without needing to do this? 

Edited May 29 by Interestedcruisefan