Carnival Cruise Line to Absorb P&O Australia in 2025

[CarnivalShips480]

Take a look at this:

 

Adventure can fit under the Sydney Harbor Bridge, which has a clearance of 160 feet. If Encounter can do the same, then Carnival just got two more ships for the 3 height restricted ports while increasing capacity.

 

Of course, if they did that, it wouldn't be without sending other ships to take their place in Australia.

[CruiseAdict218]

45 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Take a look at this:

 

Adventure can fit under the Sydney Harbor Bridge, which has a clearance of 160 feet. If Encounter can do the same, then Carnival just got two more ships for the 3 height restricted ports while increasing capacity.

 

Of course, if they did that, it wouldn't be without sending other ships to take their place in Australia.

I believe this is specific to Adventure, Encounter does not have a modified funnel. But something interesting to keep in mind. 

[arxcards]

57 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Take a look at this:

 

Adventure can fit under the Sydney Harbor Bridge, which has a clearance of 160 feet. If Encounter can do the same, then Carnival just got two more ships for the 3 height restricted ports while increasing capacity.

 

Of course, if they did that, it wouldn't be without sending other ships to take their place in Australia.

This is a key feature of accessing the 2nd terminal at White Bay. The main terminal in Circular Quay is 100% booked each summer, with several lines competing for a berth.

 

As Golden Princess, this picture was not possible. The height of the exhaust and cowl was reduced when converted to Pacific Adventure. The 160 feet is also conditional, as there is a safety margin and a tidal factor. This will be the only Carnival ship currently based in Australia that can transit under the bridge. To take this ship out of Sydney would cause chaos for all of the Carnival brands fighting over the main terminal - won't happen.

 

Perhaps you can rebrand Pacific Explorer with a red stripe, as she can fit in any of the three height restricted ports without modification. 😉 

[jsglow]

15 hours ago, arxcards said:

This is a key feature of accessing the 2nd terminal at White Bay. The main terminal in Circular Quay is 100% booked each summer, with several lines competing for a berth.

 

As Golden Princess, this picture was not possible. The height of the exhaust and cowl was reduced when converted to Pacific Adventure. The 160 feet is also conditional, as there is a safety margin and a tidal factor. This will be the only Carnival ship currently based in Australia that can transit under the bridge. To take this ship out of Sydney would cause chaos for all of the Carnival brands fighting over the main terminal - won't happen.

 

Perhaps you can rebrand Pacific Explorer with a red stripe, as she can fit in any of the three height restricted ports without modification. 😉 

One of the nice things is that presumably the same retrofit could be done for Encounter if that ever became important.

[787cruiser]

Could Freedom fit through the height restricted ports with her modified tail? 😂

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, 787cruiser said:

Could Freedom fit through the height restricted ports with her modified tail? 😂

LOL, interesting problem.  

[CarnivalShips480]

Before the fire(s 🙄), Freedom was 208 feet tall. The bridges have a clearance of about 170 feet.

Edited June 6 by CarnivalShips480

[jimbo5544]

38 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Before the fire(s 🙄), Freedom was 208 feet tall. The bridges have a clearance of about 170 feet.

Couple cans of grease?🤓

[arxcards]

7 hours ago, jsglow said:

One of the nice things is that presumably the same retrofit could be done for Encounter if that ever became important.

Indeed, and for other Grand class ships that may be surplus to Princess in the near future. These ships are already north of 20 years old, and I would be surprised if the Carnival "beards" see any place for them in the US.

 

The original Jubilee spent plenty of years down here as Pacific Sun. We would consider trading Encounter for the new Jubilee.😁

[arxcards]

On 6/6/2024 at 6:18 AM, CarnivalShips480 said:

Take a look at this:

 

Adventure can fit under the Sydney Harbor Bridge, which has a clearance of 160 feet. If Encounter can do the same, then Carnival just got two more ships for the 3 height restricted ports while increasing capacity.

 

Of course, if they did that, it wouldn't be without sending other ships to take their place in Australia.

Thought you might like this. I think this was the day Adventure arrived in Sydney for the first time.

 

[787cruiser]

Well looks like each ship is only getting a couple weeks of cruises cancelled in March. Can't see much changes happening to them.

[jimbo5544]

21 minutes ago, 787cruiser said:

Well looks like each ship is only getting a couple weeks of cruises cancelled in March. Can't see much changes happening to them.

March is a LONG way off.

[tidecat]

7 hours ago, 787cruiser said:

Well looks like each ship is only getting a couple weeks of cruises cancelled in March. Can't see much changes happening to them.

I know it's been a while, but the entire FunShip 2.0 program was designed to be completed during a two week drydock.

 

If any changes are going happen to staterooms, there may be some rooms that are taken out of service while the ship is still sailing. Carnival did this with the Triumph and Victory before they became Sunrise and Radiance.

[CruiseAdict218]

I think very minor changes will take place, according to this written article I found from the Australia forum, 

 

“Apart from a new paint job, signage and technology upgrades to include a passenger messaging and booking tool, HubApp, no hardware changes are envisaged. Carnival Adventure and Carnival Encounter will retain their current restaurants, public rooms and attractions, when the integration takes place. The technology enhancement will see the two ships taken out of service in mid-March next year resulting in the cancellation of four Adventure itineraries ex-Sydney and three Encounter cruises, ex-Brisbane. On their return to service they’ll be operated by Carnival Cruise Line.” 

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles/p-o-cruises-australia-closure-what-does-it-mean-for-cruisers

 

But as stated above, March is a long way off, or more changes will be made when they cycle through their next dry docks? Adventure just had one, not sure when Encounter is due again. 

[arxcards]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

I know it's been a while, but the entire FunShip 2.0 program was designed to be completed during a two week drydock.

 

If any changes are going happen to staterooms, there may be some rooms that are taken out of service while the ship is still sailing. Carnival did this with the Triumph and Victory before they became Sunrise and Radiance.

Drydocks are scheduled for routine maintenance & repairs below the waterline. Hotel mods are done at the same time to make the most of their out of service time. Given the nearest active drydock for ships this size is 6 days away in Singapore, and their current service schedule, it is more likely they will be just laid up at a convenient industrial dock in Australia.

Last drydock for Adventure was April 2024.

Encounter in February 2023, with next drydock scheduled for February 2026.

 

Cabins won't change much. The public areas certainly will, as well as needing a Carnival paint job above the waterline and a rebranded funnel. Two weeks should be sufficient.

[arxcards]

9 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

March is a LONG way off.

Even though it was announced just this week, this was all scheduled months ago. The only reason they would alter plans is if they got it wrong the first time.

[tidecat]

So why didn't Carnival do this during the shutdown? It would have been seen as perfectly justifiable to consolidate brands as a cost savings measure. Both Adventure and Encounter had renovations as part of their conversion from Princess. Pacific Explorer probably sticks around longer had she become Carnival Explorer.

[jimbo5544]

7 hours ago, arxcards said:

Even though it was announced just this week, this was all scheduled months ago. The only reason they would alter plans is if they got it wrong the first time.

I have no factual insight, but things change, all the time.  As demand continues to change, so does the “plan”.  If demand continues to build (they cannot foresee it growing or diminishing) then they react.  As an example, totally hypothetically speaking, due this announcement, the demand down under dries up for whatever reason, Carnival Corp reacts and deploys assets differently (not saying this will happen).  That is EXACTLY what happened with the Costa ship redeployment.

[jimbo5544]

24 minutes ago, tidecat said:

So why didn't Carnival do this during the shutdown? It would have been seen as perfectly justifiable to consolidate brands as a cost savings measure. Both Adventure and Encounter had renovations as part of their conversion from Princess. Pacific Explorer probably sticks around longer had she become Carnival Explorer.

Because things have changed dramatically since then, markets bloom, others dry up.  How is each market performing?  Is one significantly lower than the others.  Is one market significantly more profitable than others.  The shutdown and the experiences from it were not planned, it was virginal territory, there is no history or anything close to give a idea of future events and their timing.

[jsglow]

3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Because things have changed dramatically since then, markets bloom, others dry up.  How is each market performing?  Is one significantly lower than the others.  Is one market significantly more profitable than others.  The shutdown and the experiences from it were not planned, it was virginal territory, there is no history or anything close to give a idea of future events and their timing.

I think that's 100% right. The evolution of cruising since the restart has been dramatic. I actually think Carnival Corp is doing a good job steering their course and actually only conceived the 'ship/brand transfer model' post pandemic.

 

Just consider the following timeline:

 

- June '22 Carnival Luminosa transfer announcement. Very modest retrofit; in service by Fall.

- June '22 Carnival announces that Venezia and Firenze will transfer. BIG retrofit and new Carnival sub-brand. Venezia premiers May '23; Firenze premiers April '24.

- February '24 Carnival announces 4th Excel Class for '27 delivery.

- March '24 Carnival announces 5th Excel Class for '28 delivery.

- June '24 Carnival announces absorption of P&O Australia to include 2 ships with 1 retirement. Guessing 'minor' retrofit as those ships will remain in Australia.

 

Now let's go back, look at pre-pandemic decisions, and recall that Mardi Gras' launch was delayed and that she actually didn't begin sailing until July 31, 2021. Since then Radiance re-launched in December '21 and Celebration and Jubilee debuted in November '22 and December '23, respectively.

 

That's one heck of a timeline considering the company's literal survival hung in the balance in 2020.   

Edited June 8 by jsglow

[Beezo]

I agree. If we go back further, Carnival Splendor was intended to be the first new build for P&O Australia, which reversed course. Cruising in Australia, while growing, has been complicated. Sydney is extremely limited in docks on the ocean side of the port with only the Overseas Passenger Terminal and the occasional docking at Garden Island/Potts Point. Only other options are tendering if they can’t fit under the bridge. 
 

[tidecat]

18 minutes ago, Beezo said:

If we go back further, Carnival Splendor was intended to be the first new build for P&O Australia, which reversed course.
 

It was actually Carnival Panorama that was supposed to be for P&O Australia. Carnival Splendor was originally ordered as a sister to Costa Concordia.

[Beezo]

Ah yes - thank you. 

[Beezo]

18 minutes ago, tidecat said:

It was actually Carnival Panorama that was supposed to be for P&O Australia. Carnival Splendor was originally ordered as a sister to Costa Concordia.

Ah yes - thank you. 

[jsglow]

3 hours ago, tidecat said:

It was actually Carnival Panorama that was supposed to be for P&O Australia. Carnival Splendor was originally ordered as a sister to Costa Concordia.

Correct and an interesting observation. Even BEFORE Covid there were chinks in the P&O Aus armour. And someone mentioned New Zealand restrictions. The reality is that despite the fact that it was a 90+ year old line, it simply didn't offer the growth opportunities and economies of scale that Carnival does. Somewhere along the line Corp realized that a 2-3 ship cruise line on a going forward basis made zero sense. So for essentially no money except the cost of paint, they get to eliminate an entire back room and dismantle a complete advertising budget. I genuinely believe Costa is next, especially if 'Carnival Italian style' is successful. We loved Venezia; a wonderful adaptation of the standard Carnival product. 

Edited June 8 by jsglow