omahabob Posted July 20 #176 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 3 minutes ago, karenna00 said: It is not a sensationalist news story. The cruise line pushes the narrative that it is better to book through them because you will not get left behind. They do NOT push that narrative, and they've always said you could get left behind. That's why they have published policies to deal with those scenarios. Have you never cruised before? Edited July 20 by omahabob 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #177 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 5 minutes ago, omahabob said: They do NOT push that narrative, and they've always said you could get left behind. That's why they have published policies to deal with those scenarios. Have you never cruised before? They do push that narrative --- the ship won't leave you behind in port. Occasionally, operational conditions force a ship to leave port and potentially strand cruisers on a cruise operator sanctioned Shorex, but the business workflow is suppose to accommodate 100% of all expenses incurred. That's what should have happened in this case. Instead, the family was left behind, stuck with a bill, and only after contacting media, did NCL move from their original position. Edited July 20 by Mike07 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ontheweb Posted July 20 #178 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, omahabob said: NCL doesn't operate the bus, and is not responsible for it. That was on the tour operator. NCL (and all other cruise lines) tell you that one of the reasons to use their excursions is that they have vetted the cruise operator. Of course, NCL as well as the cruise operator is responsible. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julig22 Posted July 20 #179 Share Posted July 20 2 minutes ago, omahabob said: They didn't need to. The family called first. You know that how??? From previous reports from pier runners, NCL does try to call. If things are as stated, NCL would have known they were missing long before the family realized there wasn't another bus coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #180 Share Posted July 20 8 minutes ago, omahabob said: They didn't need to. The family called first. Ok... and the ship decided to still leave because..... ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare luv2kroooz Posted July 20 #181 Share Posted July 20 25 minutes ago, omahabob said: You find facts illogical? Fascinating. Might want to check the interview with the family. That is exactly what happened. I don't find facts illogical. The whole incident started because the family was not able to board the shuttle bus. Yet, your prior comment omits this critical detail as the event that started this mess. Hilarious!!! 🤣 🤣 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahabob Posted July 20 #182 Share Posted July 20 11 minutes ago, Mike07 said: They do push that narrative --- the ship won't leave you behind in port. Occasionally, operational conditions force a ship to leave port and potentially strand cruisers on a cruise operator sanctioned Shorex, but the business workflow is suppose to accommodate 100% of all expenses incurred. That's what should have happened in this case. Instead, the family was left behind, stuck with a bill, and only after contacting media, did NCL move from their original position. Show us where they push that narrative. And they did cover the expenses in this case. They even covered the fine levied by Customs, which they aren't required to do. They were doing all these things before the media got involved. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #183 Share Posted July 20 (edited) Just now, omahabob said: Show us where they push that narrative. And they did cover the expenses in this case. They even covered the fine levied by Customs, which they aren't required to do. They were doing all these things before the media got involved. The fine was levied, because NCL's vetted tour operator stranded them in port. How can you comfortably say that this won't happen to you and your family on a future NCL cruise? Edited July 20 by Mike07 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahabob Posted July 20 #184 Share Posted July 20 13 minutes ago, ontheweb said: NCL (and all other cruise lines) tell you that one of the reasons to use their excursions is that they have vetted the cruise operator. Of course, NCL as well as the cruise operator is responsible. They do bear a responsibility to make sure things get done right, as I already said. And, as I also said, I'm sure there's all kinds of stuff going on behind the scenes in that regard. They do not bear a financial compensation liability for mistakes made by a tour operator. That's a very important difference you and several others seem to be missing here. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctive-Destinations Posted July 20 #185 Share Posted July 20 20 minutes ago, Mike07 said: You're probably right. But in 2024, none of them had a cell phone? All of their contact information was bad? I doubt any of the 6 small kids were down as an emergency contact, whether they have phones or not. At most I’d say the three adults were down. The grandmother might be under the umbrella of the mother or father, taking it to two. Then there’s always the chance that just one number was entered for the whole party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #186 Share Posted July 20 2 minutes ago, omahabob said: Show us where they push that narrative. And they did cover the expenses in this case. They even covered the fine levied by Customs, which they aren't required to do. They were doing all these things before the media got involved. Go up to previous posts where it's been screenshoted. Usually that's one of the key features the cruise lines point out as a benefit to booking with them versus a third-party tour provider. It's also usually the go to answer on CC when people book third party shore excursions that go sideways and they get stranded in port. We can argue semantics, but you're wrong my friend. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #187 Share Posted July 20 1 minute ago, Distinctive-Destinations said: I doubt any of the 6 small kids were down as an emergency contact, whether they have phones or not. At most I’d say the three adults were down. The grandmother might be under the umbrella of the mother or father, taking it to two. Then there’s always the chance that just one number was entered for the whole party. You are grasping at straws here to defend a poor business decision. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #188 Share Posted July 20 2 minutes ago, omahabob said: They do bear a responsibility to make sure things get done right, as I already said. And, as I also said, I'm sure there's all kinds of stuff going on behind the scenes in that regard. They do not bear a financial compensation liability for mistakes made by a tour operator. That's a very important difference you and several others seem to be missing here. Wow.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karenna00 Posted July 20 #189 Share Posted July 20 33 minutes ago, omahabob said: They do NOT push that narrative, and they've always said you could get left behind. That's why they have published policies to deal with those scenarios. Have you never cruised before? Yes. I've been on plenty of cruises and am Platinum on NCL. The ship waiting for you when you're on an NCL excursion has always been the narrative and justification for the more expensive cost of their sponsored excursions. Have you never cruised before? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PelicanBill Posted July 20 #190 Share Posted July 20 The so-called guarantee that a ship excursion won't leave you behind? The reality is they rely on the contracted excursion operator to TELL THEM if there is a delay and they are returning late. That didn't happen here until the calls started being made and it was too late. The shop does not keep track of each excursion and who is on it. I know. It happened to me. In St. Maarten, we were on a popular sail and snorkel excursion. It leaves and returns to a dock a quarter mile from the ship. You have to walk there and back. On the sailboat, I stood up on the bridge with the captain. You sail at 5, right? She said. Uh, no I said, it's 4. All aboard is 3:30. Oh, she said. They returned us at 3:40. Everyone bolted and RAN to the ship. My wife had very bad knees. I ran ahead to the security checkpoint and begged for help. There was a golf cart giving rides but only after the checkpoint. and I watched it leave and not return. At 3:50 my wife got to the checkpoint. At 3:55 we got to the gangway and they were disconnecting it. They waited, visibly annoyed that we were so late. I asked why didn't they know we were on an excursion that was late? "We don't know anything about that," And our passports had not been left ashore for us. So don't think the ship will wait. That is up to the tour operator, port agent and ship knowing what's going on. Take your phone ashore and enable it. Bring a charger. Have the port agent number. And I always, always carry my passport 2 days medicines, and a change of clothes now. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #191 Share Posted July 20 4 minutes ago, PelicanBill said: The so-called guarantee that a ship excursion won't leave you behind? The reality is they rely on the contracted excursion operator to TELL THEM if there is a delay and they are returning late. That didn't happen here until the calls started being made and it was too late. The shop does not keep track of each excursion and who is on it. Good grief... NCL sanctioned shorex are the first place a ship should look if a guest is missing. I don't even know what to say for your story. I'm kind of speechless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike07 Posted July 20 #192 Share Posted July 20 1 hour ago, Distinctive-Destinations said: I’m not defending anyone. You said they could just call any of the nine numbers, which seems VERY unlikely to be possible. Do you have proof NCL called? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahabob Posted July 20 #193 Share Posted July 20 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Mike07 said: Do you have proof NCL called? They didn't need to. The family called NCL before NCL knew they were overdue. Edited July 20 by omahabob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahabob Posted July 20 #194 Share Posted July 20 There's also that pesky little contract that all passengers agree to. "...Guest acknowledges that it is Carrier’s policy that all Guests must be at the designated point of pre-embarkation procedures at the designated time noted on their cruise documents for the port of embarkation as well as two (2) hours before departure at all ports of call and agrees that it is the Guest’s responsibility not to miss such final deadline. Any Guest who fails to arrive at the designated pre-embarkation point at the time set forth in their cruise documents is at risk of being left at the port of embarkation or port of call. In such event, Carrier shall have the right without notice to depart without the Guest and Guest shall be fully responsible to pay for or indemnify the Carrier from all expenses incurred to rejoin the vessel at the next port or for his/her own return passage, including, but not limited to, government fees or fines, visa fees, subsistence, lodging, air fare, launch fare, car hire or agency fees. In such event, Guest shall not be entitled to a refund and shall be deemed to have breached this ticket contract. Further, in such event, the entire fare shall be deemed fully earned by Carrier and no portion thereof shall be recoverable by Guest.... ...9. Independent Contractors: (a) Off-Vessel Transport and Activities: The Guest recognizes and agrees that, if and when the Carrier makes arrangements for the Guest for air transportation, hotel accommodations, ground transfers, shore excursions, medical care and/or for other transportation, activities, services, facilities or amusements occurring off of the vessel, the Carrier does so solely for the convenience of the Guest, the Carrier does not act on behalf of or supervise the parties or persons who own, furnish, or operate such conveyances, services or facilities, and the same are provided by independent contractors who work directly for the Guest and Guest is subject to such terms, if any, appearing in the tickets, vouchers or notices of such party or parties. Therefore, the Guest agrees that the Carrier assumes no responsibility for, nor guarantees the performance of, any such person, party, contractor, service or facility, and that the Carrier shall not be liable for losses or injuries arising from the acts or omissions of such person, party, contractor, service or facility... ...(e) Indemnity: Guest acknowledges and agrees that in the event the Carrier is found liable to pay damages to Guest based on the negligence or other wrongful conduct of any person or entity other than the Carrier, or is found liable to any other person or entity based on Guest’s conduct, whether by way of joint and several liability or otherwise, the Guest will indemnify and hold Carrier harmless for any and all such conduct and/or damages. This agreement to indemnify and hold the Carrier harmless shall specifically include, without limitation, all medical services provided on or off the vessel, as well as all shore excursions, transportation or other facilities or activities provided or furnished by any person or entity other than Carrier... ...The Guest shall indemnify the Carrier for all penalties, fines, charges, losses and expenses imposed upon or incurred by the Carrier due to the Guest's failure to have proper documentation or otherwise comply with applicable laws or regulations of any kind. Any stamps on tickets, customs, excise or other taxes or fines on the Guest or the Carrier resulting from the Guest's conduct, embarkation expenses, and all expenses of such a nature are to be paid by the Guest... ...1. Responsibility: Purchaser acknowledges that Norwegian Cruise Line does not own, control, maintain or supervise any airlines, air carriers, motorcoaches, taxis, ground carriers, hotels, restaurants, tour operators, sightseeing tours, or other transportation, facilities products, activities or services provided pursuant to this Voucher, nor their providers or employees. Purchaser acknowledges and agrees that each such provider is an independent contractor who is not and shall not be deemed an agent of Norwegian Cruise Line and that Norwegian Cruise Line makes no warranty or other representation regarding the suitability or safety of such providers or their conveyances, activities, facilities, products or services... ...In arranging for the transportation of passengers, excursions, hotels, accommodations, food, lodging or any other activities, facilities, products or services provided in connection with this Voucher, Norwegian Cruise Line does so only as a convenience to the Purchaser and Purchaser hereby acknowledges and agrees that Norwegian Cruise Line shall not be liable or responsible for any loss, damage, injury, death or any other claim whatsoever arising out of any acts or omissions of any such provider or during any activities described in this voucher, including but not limited to delay or inconvenience caused by late air, car or motorcoach arrivals, nor for any loss or damage to baggage or other property of the Purchaser... 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SeaShark Posted July 20 #195 Share Posted July 20 IMHO, here is the problem overlooked in all of the shorex hand-wringing. When a tour operator returns at the conclusion of a tour, they inform the ship's shorex folks that the tour is over and they have returned. As anyone who has taken a tour knows, NCL doesn't then require all guest to check back in at the end of the tour, nor do they require those guest to reboard the ship...unless it is time to leave, guests are free to turn right around and explore the port on their own. If the tour operator had checked in and reported the conclusion of the tour, then NCL would have no reason to believe that they had a guest...or multiple guests...who were still out on a tour. Additionally, unless these 9 guests were the ONLY people on this particular tour, the presence of the other tour guests would only do more to convince someone that the tour was, in fact, over and that all guests had returned. NCL seemingly had every reason to believe the tour was over and these guests wandered off on their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #196 Share Posted July 20 Wow. Maybe I will remain primarily a Princess loyalist. We have enjoyed several NCL cruises and had thought we might plan more, but if what is being shared here is the NCL Shorex approach to customer service or general attitude - I think I’ll pass. I definitely wouldn’t pay the extra dollars expecting any support or consideration now based on these comments. By contrast, we have been on a few Princess shore excursions that ran over for one reason or another. In fact, we just got back from a Norway cruise where our tour group ended up sharing a last tender with the wrap up crew because it had been slightly delayed. There was never a question or concern. We were assured the entire time the Shorex team was aware and on top of it and we would be fine with the late return. In other instances when tours didn’t deliver as promised, the Princess Shorex team has investigated, apologized, and issued partial refunds. They are very service oriented and regularly have members of their team do secret guest tours with passengers to make sure operators are meeting expectations. This is what I expect if I’m paying top dollar to book through the ship and they are pocketing a profit from these tours. From what is being shared here, sounds like the NCL Shore Excursion team couldn’t care less and service is severely lacking. Good to know. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julig22 Posted July 20 #197 Share Posted July 20 12 minutes ago, omahabob said: They didn't need to. The family called NCL before NCL knew they were overdue. And you know that how? The family says they called at some point, have yet to see any timeline. And as a point of fact - since people seem to be nit-picking- I don't think NCL actually publishes a contact number for the ship - they give contact for the Port Authority. So no, they never called NCL at all. And the Port Authority is not NCL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare karatemom2 Posted July 20 #198 Share Posted July 20 9 minutes ago, SeaShark said: IMHO, here is the problem overlooked in all of the shorex hand-wringing. When a tour operator returns at the conclusion of a tour, they inform the ship's shorex folks that the tour is over and they have returned. As anyone who has taken a tour knows, NCL doesn't then require all guest to check back in at the end of the tour, nor do they require those guest to reboard the ship...unless it is time to leave, guests are free to turn right around and explore the port on their own. If the tour operator had checked in and reported the conclusion of the tour, then NCL would have no reason to believe that they had a guest...or multiple guests...who were still out on a tour. Additionally, unless these 9 guests were the ONLY people on this particular tour, the presence of the other tour guests would only do more to convince someone that the tour was, in fact, over and that all guests had returned. NCL seemingly had every reason to believe the tour was over and these guests wandered off on their own. Wandered where? There is basically no place to wander at the Ward Cove port - it is fully self contained and just has some shops and amenities at the port entrance where no one is getting lost from the ship. The tour operator appeared to know full well that they had a group of people they were leaving behind in Ketchikan. That should have been shared with the Shorex team who has a roster with a list of passengers on each tour. It wouldn’t have been hard to figure out all these missing passengers were on the same tour and for the Shorex team to connect with the operator to ask where they were. Clearly no one really gave a damn about these people except the port authority who apparently tried to rescue them and get them back to the ship as it was sailing away. Not a great look for NCL or a way to create confidence in their shore excursions. I think private vendors with their reputation at stake would try harder to get people back on time. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omahabob Posted July 20 #199 Share Posted July 20 1 minute ago, julig22 said: And you know that how? The family says they called at some point, have yet to see any timeline. And as a point of fact - since people seem to be nit-picking- I don't think NCL actually publishes a contact number for the ship - they give contact for the Port Authority. So no, they never called NCL at all. And the Port Authority is not NCL. The family said they did. They're provided the number for the port agent, who works for NCL, not the port authority. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkacmom Posted July 20 #200 Share Posted July 20 1 minute ago, karatemom2 said: Wandered where? There is basically no place to wander at the Ward Cove port - it is fully self contained and just has some shops and amenities at the port entrance where no one is getting lost from the ship. The tour operator appeared to know full well that they had a group of people they were leaving behind in Ketchikan. That should have been shared with the Shorex team who has a roster with a list of passengers on each tour. It wouldn’t have been hard to figure out all these missing passengers were on the same tour and for the Shorex team to connect with the operator to ask where they were. Clearly no one really gave a damn about these people except the port authority who apparently tried to rescue them and get them back to the ship as it was sailing away. Not a great look for NCL or a way to create confidence in their shore excursions. I think private vendors with their reputation at stake would try harder to get people back on time. But what if the tour operator didn’t inform the shores team that they didn’t have all of the passengers? Sounds like the tour operator thought there was another bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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