Itinerary = No Sea Days

[Donald]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

What position onboard manages a cruise ship?  

 

  

Hotel General Manager

[Charles4515]

5 hours ago, Donald said:

On the 38 cruise ships I have managed, on 1,658 cruises, over a period of 48 years, with 13 different cruise lines, the Captain ALWAYS consulted Head Office before skipping a port - for any reason. If the reason was safety-related, I can remember only one case where the Head Office over-ruled the Captain and instructed him to proceed on the planned itinerary, despite dangerous weather ahead.

I would not cruise any cruise line if I knew they would overrule a Captain and instruct them to proceed. Did the Captain comply and proceed despite the dangerous weather?

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Donald said:

On the 38 cruise ships I have managed, on 1,658 cruises, over a period of 48 years, with 13 different cruise lines, the Captain ALWAYS consulted Head Office before skipping a port - for any reason. If the reason was safety-related, I can remember only one case where the Head Office over-ruled the Captain and instructed him to proceed on the planned itinerary, despite dangerous weather ahead.

Could you give some more details on the time the Captain was overruled on a safety issue?

[Heidi13]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:59 AM, zqvol said:

Must disagree. Those points would involve changing courses, not itinerary 

 

When a Master invokes his/her authority and responsibilities under ISM Section 5.2 the situation is a little more critical than can be resolved by simply changing course.

[Heidi13]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

What position onboard manages a cruise ship? 

  

 

Some in the pax department believe they manage the ship, but in reality the vessel has multiple managers, with each department being led by a manager, some of whom are also officers.

 

 - Deck Department is managed by the senior Deck Officer, which on cruise ships is normally the Staff or Deputy Captain, who is also 2nd in command of the vessel.

 - Engineering Department is managed by the senior Engineering Officer, or Chief Engineer.

 - Hotel Department is managed by the Purser, commonly referred to as the Hotel GM, in many companies

 - Medical Department, required on any vessel with a compliment of at least 100, is led by the Senior Doctor. Although they don't have marine certification, they have medical certification (doctor or nursing), as required by the Shipping Act, and are considered as officers.

 - Human Resources - I have never had an HR specialist under my command, but experienced this with Viking Ocean. The HR Manager reported directly to the Master.

 

Each department head has reporting relationships ashore and to the Master for the safe operation of the vessel.

[Heidi13]

8 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I would not cruise any cruise line if I knew they would overrule a Captain and instruct them to proceed. Did the Captain comply and proceed despite the dangerous weather?

 

While I have experienced this many years ago, in current times I also would never cruise or work for a cruise line that attempted to over-rule the Master.

 

Prior to the ISM Code, shore pressure on the Master was common place and was a contributing factor in a number of incidents. I recall 2 incidents that prompted the ISM Code and amendments of Shipping Acts, to also place responsibility on an authorised representative. The Herald of Free Enterprise and Scandinavian Star were 2 such incidents.

 

The ISM Code states the company must clearly define and document the Master's responsibility, with respect to:

 - Implementing the company's safety & environmental policy

 - motivating all crew in following said policy

 - issuing clear and concise orders

 - verify/audit to ensure compliance

 - periodically review Safety Management System (SMS), reporting any deficiencies ashore, to ensure continuous improvement.

 

The Company is required to clearly outline the Master's authority in the SMS. In addition, the Company must establish that the Master has the overriding authority and responsibility to make decisions respecting safety and prevention of pollution, and can contact the company to request assistance deemed necessary.

 

Basically, the Master must follow the company policies, as outlined in the SMS. However, if required for safety of the vessel, crew or cargo (pax), or prevention of pollution, the Master may take any action required in his/her professional judgement. In these situations, said action can conflict with the SMS. In these situations, the shore organisation must provide any assistance requested by the Master.

 

When dealing with safety and pollution prevention, overruling the Master is a major non-conformity and in the event of a marine incident, the Master and company authorised representative could be charged. A major non-conformity has the potential for loss of the Document of Compliance (company)and/or Safety Management Certificate (vessel).

 

I'll suggest that most, if not all Masters, prior to the ISM Code and detailed SMS, have experienced pressure from ashore. However, with my last company, since we implemented a detailed SMS, I never experience pressure to sail against my better judgement.

[MBP&O2/O]

Things have certainly improved over the years.🙂

[Donald]

15 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Some in the pax department believe they manage the ship, but in reality the vessel has multiple managers, with each department being led by a manager, some of whom are also officers.

 

 - Deck Department is managed by the senior Deck Officer, which on cruise ships is normally the Staff or Deputy Captain, who is also 2nd in command of the vessel.

 - Engineering Department is managed by the senior Engineering Officer, or Chief Engineer.

 - Hotel Department is managed by the Purser, commonly referred to as the Hotel GM, in many companies

 - Medical Department, required on any vessel with a compliment of at least 100, is led by the Senior Doctor. Although they don't have marine certification, they have medical certification (doctor or nursing), as required by the Shipping Act, and are considered as officers.

 - Human Resources - I have never had an HR specialist under my command, but experienced this with Viking Ocean. The HR Manager reported directly to the Master.

 

Each department head has reporting relationships ashore and to the Master for the safe operation of the vessel.

On most modern cruise ships today, there are three departments onboard:

Nautical

Technical

Hotel

 

Nautical usually has Bridge Officers, Sailors, Security, and Medical. These assignments can vary by company. Nautical is usually about 10% of the crew. Captain and Staff Captain are in charge.

Technical usually has Engineers and IT. Technical is usually about 10% of the crew. Chief Engineer is in charge.

Hotel has the other 80% of the crew. This includes Dining, Bars, Housekeeping, Entertainment, Shops, Spa, Casino, Shore Excursions, Reception, Galleys, Provisions, Ordering,
Public Health, Human Resurces, Guest Relations, Guest Satisfaction, Pursers Department, and all the money. Hotel Manager is in charge.

 

Captain is the legal representative of the ship's owner. He typically reports to a few senior Vice Presidents and the President of the Company. He is legally in charge of all the crew, and responsible for the safety of all onboard, and the safety of the ship.

Cheif Engineer reports on a dotted line to the Captain, but actually reports to a ship Superintendent or Vice President.

Hotel Manager reports on a dotted line to the Captain, but actually reports directly to a Vice President and the President of the Company.

 

The Captain and Chief Engineer spend a lot of the company's money.

The Hotel Manager makes all that money.

In today's cruise company environment, who do you think caries the most weight?

 

[Heidi13]

9 hours ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Things have certainly improved over the years.🙂

 

I recall a particularly snotty evening with 70+ kt winds forecast, I received a call from the VP Ops asking if I thought it best to shut down the operation due to weather.

 

Had spent an hour reviewing the synopsis and all the local lighthouse weather station reports along the entire coast. The pressure was low, but not dropping, and the wind was a steady 35 - 40 kts. None of the lighthouse stations reported pressure dropping or 70 kt winds. I couldn't see any severe storm anywhere on the coast and we had a full load of freight and hundreds of pax waiting to board.

 

I knew the VP well, since years before I mentored him as a Master, advising my gut said don't sail, but actual reports indicated no issues. He was happy for me to shut down ops based on my gut, giving 100% support to whatever decision I made. I did sail, but within 1/2 hr got hit by 75 kt winds. Made for an interesting evening, eventually docking in about 45 kts.

 

So with shipping companies that have bought into ISM & SMS, the Master's role has improved with respect to interference from shore based personnel, only some of whom have any command experience.

[donaldsc]

On 7/27/2024 at 11:05 PM, Donald said:

On the 38 cruise ships I have managed, on 1,658 cruises, over a period of 48 years, with 13 different cruise lines, the Captain ALWAYS consulted Head Office before skipping a port - for any reason. If the reason was safety-related, I can remember only one case where the Head Office over-ruled the Captain and instructed him to proceed on the planned itinerary, despite dangerous weather ahead.

 

Interesting difference then between ships and airplane.  I believe that on an airplane the pilot has the absolute authority to do whatever is necessary to have a safe flight or even not to fly at all if he feels this is necessary.

 

DON

[MBP&O2/O]

Sometimes I am glad I came shoreside before achieving command 🙂

 

I once saw the old man overuled by HO when they told him he couldn't sail 😄

 

We had an incident on board which necessitated the C/O being compulsory repatriated which would have left us without a 'back up' Masters Certificate on board. The OM was happy to sail with me as C/O ... with a 2nd Mates Cert ! 

The BoT also approved, but .....

In the end he stayed on board but he was confined to quarters, and I acted up for a couple of weeks until he was replaced. Good experience 🫡

The company were happy.

[BF3]

I think the Captain took over my post.

I did find a 4-day cruise on MSC that spends 2 days at their private island and one day in Nassau.