Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[dbrown84]

1 hour ago, Bribribri said:

It is clear you want to switch.  Your loyalty can be status matched.  So, that shouldn't stop you.  I fell in love with Virgin Voyages from my first sailing on them and have posted some YT videos.

this is nice to hear.  I just received an email about a comp cruise on Virgin, so I was thinking of adding them to my cruise line tour.  do they do anytime dining, or assigned?

[dbrown84]

34 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

t isn't that they were changed (although I am a little disappointed by Harvest Caye being deleted), but more they way they handled it.

not sure why people don't get this point.  Even my Puerto Plata example, someone quoted that it's out of NCL's control.  The situation with the port was out of their control, but the way they choose to handle it is definitely within their control.  And like you, I happen to believe they are trying to avoid cancellations outside of the penalty phase.  Just my opinion.....

[dbrown84]

26 minutes ago, Travelling2Some said:

NCL does seem to have a corporate management style that I would call "high handed" and even a bit shady.  I do find it annoying and their pricing is not helping.  We have always sailed all the mass market lines (except MSC) but preferred NCL as our best "fit".  I have become interested in MSC but their pricing is hard to understand and the idea of fixed dining is a deal breaker.  Every time I look at their website I come away feeling that I just can't be bothered figuring them out. 

I took a MSC cruise last month, my first not on NCL.  Yes, the fixed dining was a bummer.  NCL absolutely have the freestyle dining down pat 

[Bribribri]

5 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

this is nice to hear.  I just received an email about a comp cruise on Virgin, so I was thinking of adding them to my cruise line tour.  do they do anytime dining, or assigned?

The Galley is anytime dining.

 

It is a good idea to make reservations for the included specialty restaurants, especially for a group. But you can walk up and check with the host, or join a virtual queue in the app and be notified when it's time to head to the restaurant.

[DorothyB]

9 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

The situation with the port was out of their control, but the way they choose to handle it is definitely within their control.  And like you, I happen to believe they are trying to avoid cancellations outside of the penalty phase.  Just my opinion.....

Yes - you stated it very well!!

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, dbrown84 said:

I took a MSC cruise last month, my first not on NCL.  Yes, the fixed dining was a bummer.  NCL absolutely have the freestyle dining down pat 

Just FYI, and you might already know this, but if you stay in the Yacht Club, you can dine anytime you like. Our first MSC cruise was not in YC but Aurea, and we had a very nice late-ish dinner time of 8:30. BTW one disadvantage of anytime dining (and I'm usually a big fan of it) is that you can end up waiting a long time to get a table. Fixed dining times mean the kitchen has a better handle on how many people are there at a given time. We gave up waiting for tables a couple of times on our last NCL cruise because the wait time was insane.

[hr223]

On 7/31/2024 at 12:19 PM, shof515 said:

 

it somewhat stinks to pay more money for anytime dinning

With the Aurea you also get full access to the thermal suite and special area for outside suntanning..

We switched from NCL to MSC much happier! With our Platinum on NCL I got Gold and my husband got diamond due to being diamond with Hilton.  

[Z0nker]

On 7/31/2024 at 6:16 AM, DorothyB said:

My history:  I sailed on Carnival 3 times before my first NCL cruise.  I did do one Carnival cruise after 2 NCL cruises because I was cruising with friends.  I am now Platinum with NCL.  I have sailed NCL 8 times with three of those in suites (haven on the two vessels that had a haven).  I currently have three more cruises booked in the next 7 months - two in solo balconies and one in a Prima haven suite.

 

So . . . I have been reading about all of the itinerary changes, but since being loyal is one of my big strengths and weaknesses, I wasn't too concerned.  However . . . then comes my next cruise.

 

I am booked on the Getaway October 27th sailing.  We have been wondering why NO excursions for a LONG time - and have been given many different stories ranging from one person saying itinerary not final; multiple people saying they were still negotiating with vendors; multiple people saying that the excursions were all sold out; multiple people saying that it was an issue with uploading them.

 

For most cabins, the penalty for canceling goes up to 50% starting 90 days out.  So 89 days out, after regular cabins have a 50% penalty and suites, etc have 75% penalty, they send out the email saying that the itinerary has changed. 

 

Honestly, I'm not really that concerned with the changes to the port (other than wishing I hadn't spent an hour booking excursions with outside companies that I now have to cancel or change).  I would have liked to see Harvest Caye, but not that big of a deal.

 

What I am struggling a LOT with is that they lied to us and are acting unethically to make more money.  I am not sure if I should just recognize that all companies are just out to make profit even if it means lying to us . . . 

 

But I think I'm ready to seriously consider changing cruise lines.  I asked last week and was told that I could wear jeans to dinner every day on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess and MSC - is this true??  and is MSC the only one of those that will match lattitudes level?  All of those sail from the nearest port.  How do prices compare?

 

Am I crazy to expect a company to treat me ethically??

It's always good to shop around and to try something different.

[Alatraveler1]

On 7/31/2024 at 3:20 PM, JamesIowa said:

I know nothing of the world of cruise port finances, but I can’t help but to think that plays a part in at least some of these itinerary changes. Had an Acapulco stop on the bliss last year changed to a sea day, we were notified onboard….so safety plays a part as well (pretty sure it was safety related but who knows). With NCL trying to maximize profits, it seems reasonable they’d look to save where they can.
i’d be down for a 15 day cruise to nowhere. Slowly circle GSC or whatever and make an obligatory stop in Cozumel. Wonder when if/when they start pushing the ship as a destination instead of the ports or “mystery cruises”. Where’re we going? Who knows?

With ships getting larger and larger and offering more and more activities onboard I wonder if this isn't part of the reasoning behind those builds.  Why allow passengers off the ship to spend money in ports and potentially on non-cruiseline excursions when they can keep you spending $$$ on those extra activities onboard?  If you look at the amount of extra spend you can shell out on the latest ___ of The Seas and the like it doesn't seem impossible to think so.

[Ellis1138]

My take on cruising is this: If there is somewhere I absolutely must go, then I make sure to go on a land vacation. With the exception of the embarkation port and disembarkation port, no port is guaranteed. And in some cases, even the final port isn't guaranteed. Weather, port issues, tides, all of these can affect things.

 

Also, I never understand the "I'm going to switch cruise lines!" You don't have to only take NCL cruises, especially now that some other lines have their own freestyle dining. If you have the money and see a cruise you want on another line, do that one.

 

I'm not so sure the ethics is the problem. There is a lot of right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing at NCL. Never attribute malice where it's just incompetence. 😉

[kitkat343]

1 hour ago, Ellis1138 said:

My take on cruising is this: If there is somewhere I absolutely must go, then I make sure to go on a land vacation. With the exception of the embarkation port and disembarkation port, no port is guaranteed. And in some cases, even the final port isn't guaranteed. Weather, port issues, tides, all of these can affect things.

 

 

That's a really good point.  When my husband and I travelled alone before we had kids, we were able to plan land vacations to see places we really wanted to visit.  But since we don't have grandparents who are willing to watch our children,  either we vacation with the kids or we don't vacation at all.  With our three children, the options are a cruise with daycare or an all inclusive with daycare (some families are stronger than I am and can take their children on land vacations, and I have nothing but the highest respect for them).  

 

I'm reluctant to take my kids to an all inclusive, since it is harder to experience as much local culture and historical sites as you can see on a cruise.  It was thanks to NCL that I was able to visit St. Petersburg with a 3 year old, an experience he would never have had on a land tour since there was no way I could have handled bringing him there at that age.  

 

For many travelers with disabilities or elderly passengers, cruising lets them travel for longer than they might otherwise be able to vacation.  While all cruisers certainly need to accept the possibility of weather or safety requiring cancelled ports, ports cancelled after final payment "to help the environment" are really tough for cruisers who don't have many options.  

[Ellis1138]

I do agree that the non-emergency changes after final payment are very disappointing. Sometimes they aren't in NCL's control, too. I still wouldn't attribute it to being unethical.

[Saint Greg]

I wonder if there are any cruise lines that don't do this. I have had Carnival switch ports, cancel ports, change excursion times, cancel excursions, and even switch ships on me. Whatever maximizes their profit, they will do.

 

On the jeans thing I've worn jeans to dinner every night on Carnival, Norwegian, and Princess with no problem.

 

Other than MSC, Virgin sometimes matches status.

[Shidah]

15 hours ago, shof515 said:

Yes. Bar Harbor is suppose to honor existing cruise ship port of calls visit. I booked the cruise last year, well before any of the new restrictions that came out. these restrictions is suppose to take into effect starting next year

 

Maine's Bar Harbor is allowing cruise calls for the 2024 season that were booked before the November 2022 citizens' vote implementing a 1,000-person/day landing cap.  
 

So not all 2024 cruises, depends if the cruise was initially scheduled before November 2022.  Not sure when the Breakaway was. This was voted in 2022, but was being challenged in the courts.  However, the courts upheld the vote this year. 

[chill6x6]

I usually book cruises at least 18 months in advance and sometimes when they are first available so sometimes over two years before sailing.  Most of my trips have been with NCL and Royal.  For me, Royal has been the one to change and even cancel cruises I had booked more than any other.I still book cruises with them and whoever I want to and am not "loyal" to any cruise line.  In the next year I have HAL, Princess, Explora, and NCL booked.

 

Air travel....WAY more instances of changes here that will affect your travel plans.  Practically every trip has a change in flights and never in benefit me, yet I still fly.

 

If covid taught us anything it should be sometimes you have to learn to go with the flow. I have done exactly this.  

[dbrown84]

17 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

Just FYI, and you might already know this, but if you stay in the Yacht Club, you can dine anytime you like. Our first MSC cruise was not in YC but Aurea, and we had a very nice late-ish dinner time of 8:30. BTW one disadvantage of anytime dining (and I'm usually a big fan of it) is that you can end up waiting a long time to get a table. Fixed dining times mean the kitchen has a better handle on how many people are there at a given time. We gave up waiting for tables a couple of times on our last NCL cruise because the wait time was insane.

After 9 cruises, I've yet to wait more than 10 minutes for a table with ncl, either main dining or specialty.  So I've been lucky in that respect.  And yes I know about anytime dining in YC, but for me that would be the only benefit to YC, or aurea.  Pretty expensive benefit.

[DCGuy64]

49 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

After 9 cruises, I've yet to wait more than 10 minutes for a table with ncl, either main dining or specialty.  So I've been lucky in that respect.  And yes I know about anytime dining in YC, but for me that would be the only benefit to YC, or aurea.  Pretty expensive benefit.

You might be surprised at how affordable MSC is, Aurea OR Yacht Club. I don't know if you've ever had a gander at the MSC website, but I think you might find their pricing competitive compared to NCL. I am glad to read you've never waited more than 10 minutes for a table, though, that's great. We waited more than that at Taste for breakfast on the Breakaway last year, and then service was extremely slow after that. We were turned away twice at the free Asian restaurant, too, wait times were an hour and a half. The irony is, I thought we'd chosen a cruise at a slower time of year (early November in the Med).

[jules181]

This isn't something you'll only see on NCL. 

 

I was on a Holland America cruise last year.  It was travelling the Pacific Coast of California.  

 

One city on our stop voted to ban cruise ships immediately. 

 

We knew that we wouldn't be hitting that port.  They kept selling the cruise as if we were hitting that port.  

 

It took them 2-3 weeks to post a new itinerary and notify us.  The cancellation of this port forced  a major change in the cruise.  

 

Things happen, when you book a cruise, you need to get in the mindset that even though it says you'll go to xyz, you could end up at abc.  The only ports that are "guaranteed" are your embarkation and debarkation, and even that guarantee is pretty loose.   

 

I'd gladly like to see more cruises to nowhere.  Put me on a 2 week stay at a floating resort where my every whim is looked after.  That's my idea of a good vacation.  Ports are just a bonus, and most times I might not leave the ship, or if I do, it isn't for long.  

 

My point is, you're mad at NCL for it, but it's an industry wide practice.  You won't be any happier anywhere else.  It's been said many times here, the major lines are more the same than different, especially when it comes to the business operations like this.  

 

Cruises are selling over 100% capacity, the demographics are changing with younger cruisers being attracted to the industry.  The lines are adapting and don't really care about the ways of old.  They're looking to the future.  

[DCGuy64]

49 minutes ago, jules181 said:

Things happen, when you book a cruise, you need to get in the mindset that even though it says you'll go to xyz, you could end up at abc.  The only ports that are "guaranteed" are your embarkation and debarkation, and even that guarantee is pretty loose.   

Well said! I have been on 14 cruises so far since 1992, and only on 2 out of those 14 were any ports skipped: NCL Epic and NCL Breakaway, due to bad weather/rocky seas. It would have been unsafe to try and dock, so the captain did the right thing on both occasions and put passenger safety above all else, like he should. I think the % of time ports get skipped is actually rather low.

[DorothyB]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

You might be surprised at how affordable MSC is, Aurea OR Yacht Club. I don't know if you've ever had a gander at the MSC website, but I think you might find their pricing competitive compared to NCL.

I am not the person you were addressing, but I did compare yesterday.  It is taking a while to figure out the website, but what I found was:

 

I compared two cruises from same port round trip:

NCL 7 days Dec 13, 2025 Cozumel, Harvest Caye, Roatan and Costa Maya

MSC 7 days Dec 7, 2025 Costa Maya, Isla d Roatan, Cozumel

 

I'm still figuring out - but I did the match from NCL so I am gold on MSC now.  

MSC Yacht Club cruise is $5,057 for a balcony. 

NCL suite would be  $5,673 + internet = $5,853 

Never having sailed MSC, I suspect the biggest difference for me is the many different specialty dining options and FAS / Platinum lattitudes "free" specialty dining meals

 

MSC Aurea deck deluxe balcony the total cost is $1,699 plus internet and drink package

For NCL, the cost of a balcony NOT in the haven or a suite is $3,134 plus cost of premium internet $180 = $3,314

 

So, cruising in a balcony with anytime dining, but NOT in a suite and NOT specialty dining, there is a HUGE difference in price.  I could buy some specialty dining and still save a LOT.

 

The ship that will be sailing from Galveston is HUGE and I think I prefer smaller ships, but the water slides look fun!  Too bad they aren't coming until Nov 2025

 

 

Edited August 2 by DorothyB

[pghflyer]

meh the old "no one looking out for you but YOU" is what I think of this....although we all wish companies would treat us fair and ethically, but if we don't walk with our wallet when they don't, we only encourage them to continue.  Business (which is what this is, not a charity that you owe any loyalty to) is war, so just go into purchases ready for battle and know the rules that are designed to your disadvantage (ex. they can change your whole vacation plan but keep your money if they want). Best wishes, I completely appreciate these things are frustrating but not sure other options won't come with equally frustrating challenges to be managed.

 

For people sticking around with NCL....looks like a good day to buy those 100 NCLH shares for your shareholder credit.... 🙂

Edited August 2 by pghflyer

[DorothyB]

1 hour ago, jules181 said:

This isn't something you'll only see on NCL. 

 

I was on a Holland America cruise last year.  It was travelling the Pacific Coast of California.  

 

One city on our stop voted to ban cruise ships immediately. 

 

We knew that we wouldn't be hitting that port.  They kept selling the cruise as if we were hitting that port.  

 

It took them 2-3 weeks to post a new itinerary and notify us.  The cancellation of this port forced  a major change in the cruise.  

 

Things happen, when you book a cruise, you need to get in the mindset that even though it says you'll go to xyz, you could end up at abc.  The only ports that are "guaranteed" are your embarkation and debarkation, and even that guarantee is pretty loose.   

 

 

 

I keep saying that I am NOT upset that the ports changed so much as the WAY it was done.  It wasn't great that it took them 2 - 3 weeks to change your itinerary, but for my cruise, the ports are NOT limiting ships, obviously NOT due to weather, etc.  It is likely mostly due to ports being so crowded (with the exception of Harvest Caye) which they knew MONTHS ago, which is way different than 3 weeks.

[DCGuy64]

30 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

I am not the person you were addressing, but I did compare yesterday.  It is taking a while to figure out the website, but what I found was:

 

I compared two cruises from same port round trip:

NCL 7 days Dec 13, 2025 Cozumel, Harvest Caye, Roatan and Costa Maya

MSC 7 days Dec 7, 2025 Costa Maya, Isla d Roatan, Cozumel

 

I'm still figuring out - but I did the match from NCL so I am gold on MSC now.  

MSC Yacht Club cruise is $5,057 for a balcony. 

NCL suite would be  $5,673 + internet = $5,853 

Never having sailed MSC, I suspect the biggest difference for me is the many different specialty dining options and FAS / Platinum lattitudes "free" specialty dining meals

 

MSC Aurea deck deluxe balcony the total cost is $1,699 plus internet and drink package

For NCL, the cost of a balcony NOT in the haven or a suite is $3,134 plus cost of premium internet $180 = $3,314

 

So, cruising in a balcony with anytime dining, but NOT in a suite and NOT specialty dining, there is a HUGE difference in price.  I could buy some specialty dining and still save a LOT.

 

The ship that will be sailing from Galveston is HUGE and I think I prefer smaller ships, but the water slides look fun!  Too bad they aren't coming until Nov 2025

 

 

Thank you for your reply, and for doing the researching and comparing. That was very nice of you! Wow, you are right about the difference in price. MSC Yacht Club is phenomenal. I have never sailed in the NCL Haven, but I am told by those those have done both, that they are fairly comparable. And I think the Yacht Club is a bargain compared to the prices I've seen in the Haven.

[DCGuy64]

31 minutes ago, DorothyB said:

It is likely mostly due to ports being so crowded (with the exception of Harvest Caye) which they knew MONTHS ago, which is way different than 3 weeks.

Not saying you're wrong here, you may well be 100% right. However, how can a cruise line know months ahead of time how crowded it'll be?

[SDRR007]

The cruise lines have no control over a port changes regardless of the cruiseline. If the port says they can't dock then they can't. You have to remember the ports can make changes to ensure they are making enough money. One would think the more ships in the ports the more money they make but that's not always the case especially if someone doesnt plan an excursion or venture an island on their own. If weather changes on the water that can impact stops as well. You have to be prepared for the unpredictable but most do their best to stick to the itinerary.