Removing Gratuities Onboard at Guest Services

[seahorse001]

28 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

What laws would be breached if a list was created? Creating a list of cheap passengers who removed gratuities would not violate any kind of law(s), at least in the USA. 

Every cruise would have passengers from around the world not just the USA. Here in the the UK we take data protection laws very seriously. The law in the UK would be UK GDPR.  I'm not a lawyer so not sure what law you would use f you wanted to sue the cruise company for flaunting your personal details in a ships galley !!

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, seahorse001 said:

Every cruise would have passengers from around the world not just the USA. Here in the the UK we take data protection laws very seriously. The law in the UK would be UK GDPR.  I'm not a lawyer so not sure what law you would use f you wanted to sue the cruise company for flaunting your personal details in a ships galley !!

There would be a myriad of American privacy laws violated if this type of personal data were posted in the public domain; however neither British nor American laws pertain to activities on the ship

[ronrythm]

2 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You are 100% correct.  The crew base salary is GUARANTEED by the cruise line and international labor laws.  Your auto gratuity goes to making this happen, if the "fund" falls short then the cruise line makes up the difference.  Your participation in the auto gratuity makes little to no difference in the pay packet of the crew members included in the pool.

Cash on the other hand makes a big difference.

The crew base salary is very low. It is the DSC taking it up above that base salary that makes it worthwhile for the crew to work on the cruise ships. It makes a huge difference. @chengkp75 has given a breakdown previously.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, ronrythm said:

The crew base salary is very low. It is the DSC taking it up above that base salary that makes it worthwhile for the crew to work on the cruise ships. It makes a huge difference. @chengkp75 has given a breakdown previously.

"very low" is subjective. For 2024, guaranteed minimum wage is USD$666 monthly; compare that to the average wage in a country like the Philippines, where are a large number of crew come from at USD$330 monthly. 

There is a reason the cruise lines have no trouble finding labor, it is a financial windfall for residents of MANY nations.

One can not view the economics of a cruise ship through a North American or Western European lens.

[Vibe]

1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

"very low" is subjective. For 2024, guaranteed minimum wage is USD$666 monthly; compare that to the average wage in a country like the Philippines, where are a large number of crew come from at USD$330 monthly. 

There is a reason the cruise lines have no trouble finding labor, it is a financial windfall for residents of MANY nations.

One can not view the economics of a cruise ship through a North American or Western European lens.

We are all very fortunate to be able to go on a cruise vacation. The DSC is factored into the way the crew gets compensated. When passengers remove their share of the DSC it contributes to decreased compensation to the all of the crew (front line and back line).  Many people say that the cruise line should pay the crew better, but they don’t. Removing the DSC is just being mean to people that come from parts of the world that don’t have the opportunities that we have,

 

 

Edited August 24 by Vibe

[chengkp75]

17 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

You are 100% correct.  The crew base salary is GUARANTEED by the cruise line and international labor laws.  Your auto gratuity goes to making this happen, if the "fund" falls short then the cruise line makes up the difference.  Your participation in the auto gratuity makes little to no difference in the pay packet of the crew members included in the pool.

Cash on the other hand makes a big difference.

Not quite correct.  What is guaranteed is a minimum wage (currently $666/month) of about 40-50% of what the crew sign their contract for.  And, the DSC "fund" makes up about 80% of their total salary.  So, if the "fund" falls short, the crew get less wages until it drops below the statutory minimum, and then the cruise line only makes up to the minimum.  Have you worked with a cruise line to know how the compensation for crew is determined?  I have.

[chengkp75]

17 hours ago, seahorse001 said:

I'm not a lawyer so not sure what law you would use f you wanted to sue the cruise company for flaunting your personal details in a ships galley !!

What "personal details"?  The list has your name and whether you paid DSC or not.  That is a simple record of a business transaction between you and the cruise line, and the cruise line is informing its employees about that transaction.

[not-enough-cruising]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Not quite correct.  What is guaranteed is a minimum wage (currently $666/month) of about 40-50% of what the crew sign their contract for.  And, the DSC "fund" makes up about 80% of their total salary.  So, if the "fund" falls short, the crew get less wages until it drops below the statutory minimum, and then the cruise line only makes up to the minimum.  Have you worked with a cruise line to know how the compensation for crew is determined?  I have.

I am well aware of your credentials; and you are certainly more qualified than am I to explain the situation. 

[lovesthebeach2]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What "personal details"?  The list has your name and whether you paid DSC or not.  That is a simple record of a business transaction between you and the cruise line, and the cruise line is informing its employees about that transaction.

So are you saying this “list” is true?  Because wouldn’t it be irrelevant to the crew if guests wait until the last night to remove them….I’ve always wondered why we always see a very long line in GS on the last night…

[cruiseboy89130]

4 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

….I’ve always wondered why we always see a very long line in GS on the last night…

You can just call them from your cabin phone to remove!

[cruiseboy89130]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What "personal details"?  The list has your name and whether you paid DSC or not.  That is a simple record of a business transaction between you and the cruise line, and the cruise line is informing its employees about that transaction.

That transaction is no business to the employees not involved in the actual transaction - you seem to have no knowledge about privacy laws at all!

Even compiling such a list is a breach in many countries as the list is not necessary for anything business related!

The list is/would be totally useless and therefore there is no such list - only some people claiming it exists to push their agenda!

[Ocean Boy]

32 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What "personal details"?  The list has your name and whether you paid DSC or not.  That is a simple record of a business transaction between you and the cruise line, and the cruise line is informing its employees about that transaction.

However, when my office posts notices intended for employees, they are not placed where patrons can read them. In fact, unless there is compelling reason, we will not even verify if someone is, or is not, a patron of the office. Just saying....

 

Unless there is a legitimate reason to know, is it anyone's business if you are even on the ship?

[footzz]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

What "personal details"?  The list has your name and whether you paid DSC or not.  That is a simple record of a business transaction between you and the cruise line, and the cruise line is informing its employees about that transaction.

Why? What exactly is the point? Cruise lines spend a great deal of time, money and advertising resources promoting a superiour customer service experience. What does posting the names of the clientele that choose not to partipicate in their payment scheme strive to achieve? 

 

It seems counterintuitive and counterproductive to post the names of the very people that their jobs depend on in any way that could potentially undermine the very service they are paid to promote and provide. 

[lovesthebeach2]

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

However, when my office posts notices intended for employees, they are not placed where patrons can read them. In fact, unless there is compelling reason. We will not even verify if someone is, or is not, a patron of the office. Just saying....

I’m hoping that there isn’t actually a list. I mean what would be the purpose other than to insinuate to the crew that they’re not performing their duties effectively enough for guests to want to add a tip, which I feel isn’t a morale booster but a put down…

 

 

[cruiseboy89130]

8 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

We will not even verify if someone is, or is not, a patron of the office. Just saying....

👍

Royal has a VERY vital interest NOT to have such a list as to avoid any confrontation or problems with their employees and their clients or between them!

They don't want anybody to know how and what is going on!

[chengkp75]

32 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

So are you saying this “list” is true?  Because wouldn’t it be irrelevant to the crew if guests wait until the last night to remove them….I’ve always wondered why we always see a very long line in GS on the last night…

If you mean it would be "irrelevant" to the crew as to whether they continue to give good service to the passenger, then you are correct.  It is not designed to punish passengers.  It is designed to force the entire DSC pool of crew to pressure all the other team members to maximize their efforts so that all benefit.  It is also to show who removed DSC so that any cash tips received by crew from these passengers is turned in to the pool.  Yes, it is true.

[chengkp75]

26 minutes ago, cruiseboy89130 said:

Even compiling such a list is a breach in many countries as the list is not necessary for anything business related!

Really?  So, in a weekly revenue meeting, the ship's senior management cannot discuss why revenue is down because some passengers have removed the DSC?  We can't discuss which passengers this is, to try to determine what caused this, or which crew member may be at fault?  I'd love to know what countries, and what privacy issues involved would violate what laws.

[chengkp75]

29 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

they are not placed where patrons can read them.

I've never seen these posted where the passengers could see them.

[chengkp75]

19 minutes ago, lovesthebeach2 said:

I’m hoping that there isn’t actually a list. I mean what would be the purpose other than to insinuate to the crew that they’re not performing their duties effectively enough for guests to want to add a tip, which I feel isn’t a morale booster but a put down…

 

 

As I've said, it is the "stick" in the carrot/stick model of management.  And, it makes the ones who did perform well, yet got reduced salary apply pressure to their colleagues who didn't. 

[Jetdriver787]

15 hours ago, ronrythm said:

The crew base salary is very low. It is the DSC taking it up above that base salary that makes it worthwhile for the crew to work on the cruise ships. It makes a huge difference. @chengkp75 has given a breakdown previously.

With respect, it is the fact that the salary for most crew is “Tax Free” that makes a huge difference. Very few countries (Somalia and the USA spring to mind) tax their citizens on expatriate earnings after qualifying periods of overseas residence. 
 

The problem with “gratuities” is that this has become an industrialized income stream for very wealthy corporations. No longer a freely given expression of “thank you” but a dictate on “we will tell you how much thanks to give!”  Certainly that is the perception and the basis of this obviously outdated and very controversial practice in modern times.

 

Companies like Virgin Voyages (and others) bury their employee input costs elsewhere in the retail price. Nothing stops an individual from showing their “thanks” if they feel it’s warranted and they choose to. Everybody (well ok not everybody) is happy! 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, Jetdriver787 said:

With respect, it is the fact that the salary for most crew is “Tax Free” that makes a huge difference. Very few countries (Somalia and the USA spring to mind) tax their citizens on expatriate earnings after qualifying periods of overseas residence. 

The Philippines and Indonesia tax overseas earnings, two of the largest suppliers of cruise ship crew.  Also, ship's crew are not considered "overseas residents" when on a ship.

Edited August 24 by chengkp75

[footzz]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

As I've said, it is the "stick" in the carrot/stick model of management.  And, it makes the ones who did perform well, yet got reduced salary apply pressure to their colleagues who didn't. 

So, how does outing the names of the passengers who didn't 'pay in' help in this regard?

Edited August 24 by footzz

[Ocean Boy]

7 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I've never seen these posted where the passengers could see them.

Then why are passengers saying they've seen them?

[chengkp75]

I know better than to get involved in "tipping" threads, so I should have kept quiet.  But, I have stated two facts, the DSC removal list exists, and removal of DSC does affect the crew's compensation.  Done.

[Biker19]

21 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

Then why are passengers saying they've seen them?

Most reports indicate the viewing of such lists happened in crew limited areas - I think that's what the chief meant.

 

Biker, who wonders what the mods' tolerance for this thread will be before locking.

Edited August 24 by Biker19