No more Simply More

[SEC Man]

Just received a brochure in the mail that now says “Your World. Your Way” and lists what’s included but has no actual pricing for any cruise (35 pages without any pricing). 

[Thought2go]

Was on the Oceania web page today and found this wording under:

 

“All fares include gratuities for stateroom/suite attendants, butlers and dining waitstaff, as well as government taxes and fees. Additional gratuities apply to any other services or purchases made on board which will incur a service gratuity of 20%.”….

I Don't remember bartenders being left out-

Or the gratuity being listed as 20% incurred charge.

[Thought2go]

7 hours ago, SEC Man said:

Just received a brochure in the mail that now says “Your World. Your Way” and lists what’s included but has no actual pricing for any cruise (35 pages without any pricing). 

This must be how the new “dynamic” pricing is going to work. Bait you with glossies, reel you in, and set the hook.

Sounds like a AI process-devoid of human traits-like humans want to know how much.

[PhD-iva]

6 hours ago, Thought2go said:

Was on the Oceania web page today and found this wording under:

 

“All fares include gratuities for stateroom/suite attendants, butlers and dining waitstaff, as well as government taxes and fees. Additional gratuities apply to any other services or purchases made on board which will incur a service gratuity of 20%.”….

I Don't remember bartenders being left out-

Or the gratuity being listed as 20% incurred charge.

I’ve read that bartenders receive tips from drinks, so “drink up!”

[Harters]

49 minutes ago, PhD-iva said:

I’ve read that bartenders receive tips from drinks

Yes. A 20% gratuity is added to all purchased drinks.

[pinotlover]

11 minutes ago, Harters said:

Yes. A 20% gratuity is added to all purchased drinks.

Do not attempt to translate what may occur on a land based venue to a cruise line.

[DrHemlock]

8 hours ago, Thought2go said:

gratuities for stateroom/suite attendants, butlers and dining waitstaff,

Do we have any accountants here who can explain why O goes through this whole "gratuity" charade rather than just raising their salaries and our fares to match?  (Which, I suppose, is part of what they've now done with Simply Less.)

And why is it not the same system for bartenders and cocktail staff?  Is it to incentivize them to sell us more (and more expensive) drinks?  Is this to the workers' advantage in some way?  Or is it to O's advantage?  

And do any of these workers really receive these so-called gratuities, or is the money considered our thankful gratuity to O corporate for putting the ship onto the water with us aboard?

Not that I have a problem with this system; it just seems like an extra layer of bureaucracy for which I have never understood the reasoning.

Edited 21 hours ago by DrHemlock

[Harters]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

Do not attempt to translate what may occur on a land based venue to a cruise line.

I'm unsure where a land based venue comes into this. We're discussing O's gratuity policy aren't we?

 

In this case, from O's website

 

"In addition, an 20% service gratuity is automatically added to all beverage purchases, spa services and dinner at La Reserve. "

 

https://oceaniacruises.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005476793-What-is-your-gratuity-policy

 

 

[Harters]

19 minutes ago, DrHemlock said:

Or is it to O's advantage?  

It would not exist if it wasn't - although I don't understand the logic either. It may well be related to consumption though. Related to the included gratuities - everyone has their cabin cleaned and everyone is served meals. In that respect, everyone is on an equal basis. Whereas, it's a matter for individual guests to decide if they are having an alcoholic drink in a bar. I'm only guessing - I come from country where tipping bar staff is not really a thing (and certainly not something related to every drink). 

[MEFIowa]

54 minutes ago, DrHemlock said:

Do we have any accountants here who can explain why O goes through this whole "gratuity" charade rather than just raising their salaries and our fares to match?  (Which, I suppose, is part of what they've now done with Simply Less.)....

Though you'd really need to talk with their marketing specialists at Corporate HQ. The accountants are trying to enhance profit margins per passenger per cruise. The marketers have to figure out a way to do that while making you think you're getting some new value.

[njhorseman]

8 hours ago, Thought2go said:

Was on the Oceania web page today and found this wording under:

 

“All fares include gratuities for stateroom/suite attendants, butlers and dining waitstaff, as well as government taxes and fees. Additional gratuities apply to any other services or purchases made on board which will incur a service gratuity of 20%.”….

I Don't remember bartenders being left out-

Or the gratuity being listed as 20% incurred charge.

You're wrong. There's nothing new here. The bartenders were never included in in the daily gratuity charge.

If you purchased an alcoholic beverage not part of an included or purchased beverage package you were always charged a gratuity.

The reason is very simple...not everyone consumes alcoholic beverages. You're also charged a gratuity for spa services. Again, simply because it's something that not everyone takes part in. The daily gratuity charge covers the services every passenger receives every day, meal service and cabin cleaning.

This practice is virtually uniform in the cruise industry on cruise lines that are not all inclusive.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, DrHemlock said:

Do we have any accountants here who can explain why O goes through this whole "gratuity" charade rather than just raising their salaries and our fares to match?  (Which, I suppose, is part of what they've now done with Simply Less.)

And why is it not the same system for bartenders and cocktail staff?  Is it to incentivize them to sell us more (and more expensive) drinks?  Is this to the workers' advantage in some way?  Or is it to O's advantage?  

And do any of these workers really receive these so-called gratuities, or is the money considered our thankful gratuity to O corporate for putting the ship onto the water with us aboard?

Not that I have a problem with this system; it just seems like an extra layer of bureaucracy for which I have never understood the reasoning.

I have been told that one reason for the gratuity system that is commonly used in the cruise industry is that in some countries gratuities are considered gifts and not subject to income taxes. As a result crew from those countries who receive gratuities will have a higher after tax income than if the same gross income were paid 100% in salary.

As I and others explained in earlier posts, the reason bartenders are not included in the basic daily gratuity charge is that not everyone consumes alcoholic beverages. The daily gratuity charge covers services every passenger receives every day, meal service and cabin cleaning.

[pinotlover]

This has been discussed before. On all ships: Navy, merchant, cruise, etc; all employees have an assigned rank by duty responsible. That rank and corresponding pay grade , along with years of service, is what determines the employee’s pay. They don’t work for gratuities as some land based workers do. Ship staff pay is not based on how many drinks they might deliver on any particular shift. Crew pay doesn’t vary based on how full the ship is, how many drinkers they have, etc. Pay and privileges are set by Contract, by rank. 

 

Some of the staff have the opportunity to gain commission sales bumps for such things as selling wine tastings or other additional cost events . 
 

From what I’ve been told by staff, gratuities are ship income and pooled for corporate use for such things as employee exceptional service recognition awards, or length of service awards, and other such staff motivational causes. The only tips they get otherwise is the cash you hand them.

Edited 19 hours ago by pinotlover

[ORV]

12 hours ago, Thought2go said:

Additional gratuities apply to any other services or purchases made on board which will incur a service gratuity of 20%.”…

Who writes these? "Any" other services or purchases? Wow, we're going to have to start paying a gratuity on purchases in the boutique? I mean, that's a purchase, right? Can't people think things through before they write them?

[Syd58]

Had a chance to do some comparison with O's new pricing compared to 3 booked SM cruises. The new pricing for us is substantially higher taking into account drinks and excursions:

 

Cruise 1:  $2,679 more per person

Cruise 2:  $ 691 more per person

Cruise 3:  $ 2,669 more per person

 

I believe in the majority of cases, O's new pricing is substantially more than SM, when taking drinks and excursions into consideration.  In some cases, it's likely more even when not taking these into consideration.

[mauibabes]

This is not a surprise as most everyone viewed it as a price increase. I am sure you factored in the value of the Gratuities, be they $36 or $46 per day? I certainly would have expected a comparison increase in the Hundred$ but not Thousand$ as you calculated. Excursions can mount up but those are large $💰. 
 

For any new cruiser to O who is receiving the Included and certainly not Free Gratuity and WiFi, it would look to be a very nice amenity package, especially if they have no historical frame of reference. All we read on CC are complaints about other lines and how the prices have been jacked up significantly and the quality has gone down making the line less attractive. I still see a lot of X, HAL, Princess and even Viking cruisers becoming Refugees to check out what Oceania has to offer. Let’s hope O keeps up the good work.  
We certainly do not want the included gratuities to become a quality staff/O family killer because they are feeling the impact of cruisers not feeling a need to be “sharing the wealth” as they have in the past with extra envelope$. I know we will continue to share some envelopes with the great staff because they are what makes Oceania special for us. JMHO and $0.03 (Inflation)

 

Mauibabes

[Syd58]

7 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

This is not a surprise as most everyone viewed it as a price increase. I am sure you factored in the value of the Gratuities, be they $36 or $46 per day? I certainly would have expected a comparison increase in the Hundred$ but not Thousand$ as you calculated. Excursions can mount up but those are large $💰. 
 

For any new cruiser to O who is receiving the Included and certainly not Free Gratuity and WiFi, it would look to be a very nice amenity package, especially if they have no historical frame of reference. All we read on CC are complaints about other lines and how the prices have been jacked up significantly and the quality has gone down making the line less attractive. I still see a lot of X, HAL, Princess and even Viking cruisers becoming Refugees to check out what Oceania has to offer. Let’s hope O keeps up the good work.  
We certainly do not want the included gratuities to become a quality staff/O family killer because they are feeling the impact of cruisers not feeling a need to be “sharing the wealth” as they have in the past with extra envelope$. I know we will continue to share some envelopes with the great staff because they are what makes Oceania special for us. JMHO and $0.03 (Inflation)

 

Mauibabes

Yes, inclusive gratuities (in new pricing) were factored into my analysis.

[mauibabes]

@Syd58

Then definitely a BIG bump 🤬💰.  We have 4 trips booked thru next year so we will have to see what the 2026+ itineraries look like when they are released in a couple weeks according to a TA friend. We always sit down with the O Club Ambassadors after we board, in 4 weeks, and have a discussion about itineraries and pricing, etc.  I am sure we will book some trips with the decreased deposits and On Board Discount but they will definitely be as far out as possible to use that leverage to save some $. By the time we board and finish our sailings in November, we will see all of O’s itineraries into early 2027, maybe 🤫. 
The pricing and booking game continues 🤞😇💰

Mauibabes

[Oceangoer2]

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

This has been discussed before. On all ships: Navy, merchant, cruise, etc; all employees have an assigned rank by duty responsible. That rank and corresponding pay grade , along with years of service, is what determines the employee’s pay. They don’t work for gratuities as some land based workers do. Ship staff pay is not based on how many drinks they might deliver on any particular shift. Crew pay doesn’t vary based on how full the ship is, how many drinkers they have, etc. Pay and privileges are set by Contract, by rank. 

 

Some of the staff have the opportunity to gain commission sales bumps for such things as selling wine tastings or other additional cost events . 
 

From what I’ve been told by staff, gratuities are ship income and pooled for corporate use for such things as employee exceptional service recognition awards, or length of service awards, and other such staff motivational causes. The only tips they get otherwise is the cash you hand them.

So....if this is true, crew pay is salaried in essence and they must be paid more than other cruise lines (why be employed by them otherwise) where gratuities are turned over to them in some secret fashion.  Tips on O are immaterial to their salary except for the 'odd award' and what we're charged is an addition to the cruise line pot.  This is all new to me.  I sail X almost exclusively now and have never sailed O.  This will for sure, put me off booking (considering for a while trying the line).  Would really be interested in someone officially backing this up and not a rumour by 'someone' in crew and repeated here.

[pinotlover]

@Oceangoer2; Just as a brief consideration, if those waitstaff and bartenders worked primarily for tips; do you believe they’d sign up on ships noted for lots of elderly with a significant percentage that doesn’t drink at all?

Or would they all be heading to the ships with the younger crowd pounding drinks?

 

Edited 15 hours ago by pinotlover

[mauibabes]

@Oceangoer2

Having  read Pinot’s posts for years, IMHO, he is sharing some factual information. I have never asked staff what and how they are paid but I do know O and other of the Luxury lines attract excellent staff, experienced and well schooled and cared for.  O does pay well and those smiles and attention to the guests usually lead to gratuities. Since we have had Gratuities included since we started sailing on O many years ago, I am sure the new Included Gratuity program, which only nets us $250 in Credits, will have no impact on what we put in envelopes or our Thank You cards. 
 

If you are exclusive to X, then you will meet huge numbers of X EX Pats on Oceania and I would recommend you not dawdle with a booking on O if you find a desireable itinerary and price on a specific ship. We left X a long time ago and the exodus has only accelerated. 
Whatever you do, enjoy.

Mauibabes

[Thought2go]

4 hours ago, njhorseman said:

You're wrong. There's nothing new here. The bartenders were never included in in the daily gratuity charge.

If you purchased an alcoholic beverage not part of an included or purchased beverage package you were always charged a gratuity.

The reason is very simple...not everyone consumes alcoholic beverages. You're also charged a gratuity for spa services. Again, simply because it's something that not everyone takes part in. The daily gratuity charge covers the services every passenger receives every day, meal service and cabin cleaning.

This practice is virtually uniform in the cruise industry on cruise lines that are not all inclusive.

Thanks-guess I never realized it since I buy the Prestige package. 

[Thought2go]

48 minutes ago, mauibabes said:

@Syd58

Then definitely a BIG bump 🤬💰.  We have 4 trips booked thru next year so we will have to see what the 2026+ itineraries look like when they are released in a couple weeks according to a TA friend. We always sit down with the O Club Ambassadors after we board, in 4 weeks, and have a discussion about itineraries and pricing, etc.  I am sure we will book some trips with the decreased deposits and On Board Discount but they will definitely be as far out as possible to use that leverage to save some $. By the time we board and finish our sailings in November, we will see all of O’s itineraries into early 2027, maybe 🤫. 
The pricing and booking game continues 🤞😇💰

Mauibabes

Please let us know how it works out. I just have this niggly feeling TAs are getting haircuts from O. Will that translate to onboard Ambassadors too?? Are the cruise lines figuring they can wine and dine a few social media influencers (as was recently done with RC in Venice) to pump sales at reduced marketing costs?? Is this AI’s uniform business model with “dynamic pricing”?? Things they are a changing.

[Oceangoer2]

2 hours ago, mauibabes said:

@Oceangoer2

Having  read Pinot’s posts for years, IMHO, he is sharing some factual information. I have never asked staff what and how they are paid but I do know O and other of the Luxury lines attract excellent staff, experienced and well schooled and cared for.  O does pay well and those smiles and attention to the guests usually lead to gratuities. Since we have had Gratuities included since we started sailing on O many years ago, I am sure the new Included Gratuity program, which only nets us $250 in Credits, will have no impact on what we put in envelopes or our Thank You cards. 
 

If you are exclusive to X, then you will meet huge numbers of X EX Pats on Oceania and I would recommend you not dawdle with a booking on O if you find a desireable itinerary and price on a specific ship. We left X a long time ago and the exodus has only accelerated. 
Whatever you do, enjoy.

Mauibabes

We've sailed most lines and settled with X for what they offer.  I don't know about 'huge' numbers leaving, but I do see a few 'refugees' as they've been called  🙃.  I have lurked on this board for quite a while to get a 'feel' as to whether it would suit. I also see a few leaving O for their own reasons.  It's quite subjective it seems...what suits one doesn't another.

[Thought2go]

6 hours ago, pinotlover said:

This has been discussed before. On all ships: Navy, merchant, cruise, etc; all employees have an assigned rank by duty responsible. That rank and corresponding pay grade , along with years of service, is what determines the employee’s pay. They don’t work for gratuities as some land based workers do. Ship staff pay is not based on how many drinks they might deliver on any particular shift. Crew pay doesn’t vary based on how full the ship is, how many drinkers they have, etc. Pay and privileges are set by Contract, by rank. 

 

Some of the staff have the opportunity to gain commission sales bumps for such things as selling wine tastings or other additional cost events . 
 

From what I’ve been told by staff, gratuities are ship income and pooled for corporate use for such things as employee exceptional service recognition awards, or length of service awards, and other such staff motivational causes. The only tips they get otherwise is the cash you hand them.

According to “Tips for Travelers” UTube- the gratuities are part of crew pay. So when people elect to not pay them-affects the contract between the crew and the cruise line. @5:22 about gratuities