Is it really a gratuity?

[dakrewser]

Another thread discusses the 15% charge added to all beverage bills - including charges for the mini-bar in your cabin. It's called a "gratuity" - but is it? Can you change the amount on the slip you sign? Can you remove it? Have you ever done so?

 

I don't mean can you slip your favorite steward or bartender a few bucks - can you, have you, actually changed it on the slip you sign?

 

If you can't, then it's no gratuity - it's a service charge and there's no reason why it can't be built into the upfront price.

[bruceh4]

If you can't, then it's no gratuity - it's a service charge and there's no reason why it can't be built into the upfront price.

Agreed:eek:

[Krazy Kruizers]

No you cannot change or remove the gratuity on the bar bills. I refered to it as a gratuity being as that is the what HAL calls that 15%.

 

I agree that it really is a service charge.

 

But HAL refers to it as a gratuity being as the bar tenders and servers get a good deal of that money as that is the only tip money they get. They are not part of the $10 per day per person auto tip.

[sail7seas]

They also are free to keep (without sharing) any additional tips they receive. Many people choose to tip them above wht has been added to the bar tab.

 

[grannynurse]

I'm having deja-vu, I remember 2 years ago when the auto-tipping began, we had many many discussions on gratuity vs service charge. The variable as i remember was the "voluntary" component.

I think the auto-tip and the bar "gratuity are both service charges no matter what our dear HAL chooses to call them. This is not a comment pro or con, just a semantics issue for me.

GN

[Grumpy1]

The only difference is that the auto-tip can be considered as a gratuity since you can remove it if you want to be a cheapskate.:eek: The 15% can't be removed and becomes, by definition, a service charge not a gratuity, regardless of what HAL wishes to call it.

[james j feller]

And there off, here we go again.

 

 

 

 

 

JIM

[thomasale]

I have said the same thing about sales tax...why do they list a price and then add the tax? They don't list a price and then add a labor cost, or a water cost, or an electric cost so why not build it into the price and thats that.

 

No thank you skip the tax for me.

[dakrewser]

I have said the same thing about sales tax...why do they list a price and then add the tax? They don't list a price and then add a labor cost, or a water cost, or an electric cost so why not build it into the price and thats that..

 

But Sales tax does vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Here in the lower bay area of California, my sales tax is quite different if I shop in Menlo Park or in Santa Clara (or Palo Alto, Mountain View or Sunnyvale in between) - a combination of state, county and local tax.

 

Now airfare - there's one that really gets me. Saw an ad the other day for a special sale - London to Amsterdam for only £1, of course, adding "fees, taxes & charges" brought it to 75!

[noblepa]

Just about any restaurant you go to, or banquet hall you rent, will automaically add a 15% gratuity to the bill for parties over a certain size, usually 8 or 10 people.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the distinction being made between a gratuity and a service charge. To me, a service charge is kept, in total, or in large part, by the employer. A gratuity is distributed to the servers and other staff directly involved in the meal/banquet. Every statement that has ever come from HAL (that I've heard, anyway) says that 100% of the "gratuities" (or service charges, if you prefer) are given to the onboard staff. To me, that makes them gratuities, whether I can change them or not.

 

As far as adding the gratuities/service charges into the cruise fare, there are at least two problems I see with that. One is that it would put HAL at a competitive disadvantage in booking cruises, especially with those new to cruising. Secondly, US culture is heavily skewed toward tipping service personnel. If they added it to the fare, many people would feel compelled to tip the staff anyway. I'm told that some Carnival and possibly HAL cruises that sail European/Mediterranean itineraries and are marketed to Europeans, do, in fact, include gratuities in the fare, since Europeans are less accustomed to tipping everyone in sight, as Americans are.

 

I've heard, but can't confirm, that NCL adds the auto-tips, just as HAL does, but that they are mandatory and cannot be reduced or removed, in effect making them part of the cruise fare. But, they're not part of the published fare.

 

Paul Noble

[Grumpy1]

As far as adding the gratuities/service charges into the cruise fare, there are at least two problems I see with that. One is that it would put HAL at a competitive disadvantage in booking cruises, especially with those new to cruising. Secondly, US culture is heavily skewed toward tipping service personnel. If they added it to the fare, many people would feel compelled to tip the staff anyway. I'm told that some Carnival and possibly HAL cruises that sail European/Mediterranean itineraries and are marketed to Europeans, do, in fact, include gratuities in the fare, since Europeans are less accustomed to tipping everyone in sight, as Americans are.

 

Paul Noble

HAL sometimes offers an early booking incentive where tips are included in the fare. This is usually on the Grand Voyages. Our tips are included on our 66 day cruise next January. After the early booking period for past Grand Voyage cruisers passed, the price did not drop, so this was truely an incentive and not a prepayment.

 

I did discuss the idea of including the tips in the price of a cruise with a marketing manager. He indicated there had been some discussions, but felt that they would have to increase prices more than $10pp/pd because the TA's would get a larger commission, based on the higher price, so in effect the TA would be sharing the tips with the staff. My suggestion was to move the tips into the non-discountable category that is already exempt from commission. I see it hasn't been adopted yet, though...

 

We have two Mediterannean cruises booked, and neither include tips in the cruise price.

[dakrewser]

I've heard, but can't confirm, that NCL adds the auto-tips, just as HAL does, but that they are mandatory and cannot be reduced or removed, in effect making them part of the cruise fare. But, they're not part of the published fare.

 

That's true about NCL, or at least was a year ago. It's right up there with the various "charges" at the bottom of your phone bill, or the "plus tax, title, and license" car prices.

 

Just tell me what my bottom line is!

[Jim Gallup]

So if you eat in a Manhattan Restaurant and depart without leaving at least a 20% Gratuity, it is very likely that the waiter and possibly the owner will follow you out the door and make a few choice threats to your continued well-being.

 

Then is it a gratuity - or is it life insurance? Why don't they call it what it really is?

 

Why don't they add it up front to the price of the steak and the bottle of wine?

[RuthC]

So if you eat in a Manhattan Restaurant and depart without leaving at least a 20% Gratuity, it is very likely that the waiter and possibly the owner will follow you out the door and make a few choice threats to your continued well-being.

 

Then is it a gratuity - or is it life insurance?

Extortion?

[NoNoNanette]

So if you eat in a Manhattan Restaurant and depart without leaving at least a 20% Gratuity, it is very likely that the waiter and possibly the owner will follow you out the door and make a few choice threats to your continued well-being.

 

Then is it a gratuity - or is it life insurance? Why don't they call it what it really is?

 

Why don't they add it up front to the price of the steak and the bottle of wine?

 

*LOL* That reminds me of a Sopranos episode with Paulie and Christopher... they bludgened the waiter to death. :eek:

[Jim Gallup]

By far one of the oldest traditions of cruising is the practice of the passengers paying the salaries of the service staff by "tipping" them for their services.

This practice was well established long before fixed seatings, early and late dining times, baked Alaska, repeat cruisers clubs, VIP Parties, midnight buffets, and constantly complaining about the food were even thought about.

 

I was under the impression that you HAL Cruisers were traditionalists to the max. What happened? Are you willing to just jettison a time-honored and time-proven tradition of cruising, based on semantics?

[gizmo]

I've heard, but can't confirm, that NCL adds the auto-tips, just as HAL does, but that they are mandatory and cannot be reduced or removed, in effect making them part of the cruise fare. But, they're not part of the published fare.

 

Paul Noble

 

It is mandatory on that NCL ship that does Hawaii.

[dakrewser]

By far one of the oldest traditions of cruising is the practice of the passengers paying the salaries of the service staff by "tipping" them for their services.

This practice was well established long before fixed seatings, early and late dining times, baked Alaska, repeat cruisers clubs, VIP Parties, midnight buffets, and constantly complaining about the food were even thought about.

 

I was under the impression that you HAL Cruisers were traditionalists to the max. What happened? Are you willing to just jettison a time-honored and time-proven tradition of cruising, based on semantics?

 

Sorry, but I didn't notice anyone advocating a non-paid status for crew, did you?

[Jim Gallup]

Everytime you take a cruise on a ship where they pay the crew next to nothing and expect you to pay their salaries, you support and advocate that practice. The fine legalese print on your cruise contract says that by using your ticket, you agree to the terms and conditions of the company.

If you don't like it, stop complaining about it and DO SOMETHING about it. Actions always speak louder than words.

 

Has anyone advocated paying sub-minimum wage to restaurant waiters and then expecting you to make up the difference when you dine out?

Do you support it by patronizing those restaurants?

 

Has anyone advocated paying illegal immigrant workers sub-standard wages to harvest fruits and vegetables in California?

Do you support the practice by purchasing those fruits and vegetables?

[RevNeal]

Jim,

 

I don't see anyone really complaining or suggesting that anyone should remove the "gratuity" from their shipboard accounts. Hence, this little lecture seems a bit "over-the-top."

 

In my personal opinion HAL should call the bar-tab add-on a "service charge," but they're free to call it whatever they want ... "bribe," "extortion," or "lollypop fund" if they like. The wonderful people who serve us DO deserve to be paid, and J.P. Morgan was the guy most directly responsible for creating the "tradition" which passes the lion's share of that responsibility to the passengers.

[dakrewser]

Has anyone advocated paying sub-minimum wage to restaurant waiters and then expecting you to make up the difference when you dine out?

Do you support it by patronizing those restaurants?

 

Has anyone advocated paying illegal immigrant workers sub-standard wages to harvest fruits and vegetables in California?

Do you support the practice by purchasing those fruits and vegetables?

 

Customers generally pay 100% of the salaries of all employees at all companies - not just in the industries you mention. What's your point?

[aaerobear]

They do pay sub-minimum wages to restaraunt workers here in CA. The restaraunts are allowed to pay less than minimum wages as the state feels the difference will be made up from tips.

[Grumpy1]

Everytime you take a cruise on a ship where they pay the crew next to nothing and expect you to pay their salaries, you support and advocate that practice. The fine legalese print on your cruise contract says that by using your ticket, you agree to the terms and conditions of the company.

If you don't like it, stop complaining about it and DO SOMETHING about it. Actions always speak louder than words.

 

Has anyone advocated paying sub-minimum wage to restaurant waiters and then expecting you to make up the difference when you dine out?

Do you support it by patronizing those restaurants?

 

Has anyone advocated paying illegal immigrant workers sub-standard wages to harvest fruits and vegetables in California?

Do you support the practice by purchasing those fruits and vegetables?

Let's be careful about the use of the term "advocate". I go to restaurants. I'm aware of the pay structure in restaurants. I patronize the restaurant and tip my server. That does not mean I advocate the system.

 

I buy fruits and vegetables. I have no other choice except to grow them in flower pots. That does not in any way mean that I advocate substandard pay for the workers.

 

What I advocate is fair wages for all workers. I am not going to quit cruising, eating, using technology, buying clothes, etc etc etc, because some of the workers in all of those fields are underpaid. Going along with the system as it exists does not equate with advocacy.

[WCB]

We are going on the World Cruise next year, and the tips will be included for us. It will be interesting to see if the bar bills will still include the 15% gratuity. How did this work for the 2006 World Cruise, where tips were also included?

 

Bill & Mary Ann

[Grumpy1]

We are going on the World Cruise next year, and the tips will be included for us. It will be interesting to see if the bar bills will still include the 15% gratuity. How did this work for the 2006 World Cruise, where tips were also included?

 

Bill & Mary Ann

I'm pretty sure it only applies to the $10pp/pd.