Cruise Air Misconception - they do not have to pay to get you to the ship

[happy cruzer]

Hi, I have been reading another thread where the person missed their ship because of bad weather affecting their air flights booked by HAL.

 

Many people keep saying that HAL needs to make this right.

 

Per the contract, when a cruiseline books the air fare they only act as an agent. Just like a travel agent. they only have the same responsiblities, ie to book the flight, they do not have to provide alternative transportation to the ship and they do not have to pay to get you to the ship. the air compnany is resposible for getting you to the booked destination, HAL is responsible for taking you on a cruise. And the travel insurance (if you have it) is responsible for reimbursing money spent on problems.

 

I've had this explained to me many times. I wish that they did make sure you get to the ship on their nickle, I would then buy cruise air; but they just book the air and maybe help with changes usually short of any compensation.

[Navy_Chief]

Appearently, there wasn't enough "HAL" booked passengers to delay departure. Our Med cruise in 04 was supposed to depart at 8PM, we didn't get underway until 2AM because HAL held the ship in Athens for the arriving PAX because of some problems with delayed flights from the states. A shame the OP who started the other string went through all that mess and still missed the cruise.

[happy cruzer]

I think that is part of the confusion. They do hold the ship for passengers that are running late. But if you were delayed overnight??

 

My point is that they don't HAVE to do anything. It is great when they do and I too hope that the cruiselines help folks with travel delays.

[DMRick]

Per the contract, when a cruiseline books the air fare they only act as an agent. Just like a travel agent. they only have the same responsiblities, ie to book the flight, they do not have to provide alternative transportation to the ship and they do not have to pay to get you to the ship. the air compnany is resposible for getting you to the booked destination, HAL is responsible for taking you on a cruise. .

 

Based on the folowing that I got just last week from AAA, I assumed if the air was part of the cruise, it was the cruises responsibility. If not, what does the following mean?:

 

"You should be aware that you have purchased a (cruise/tour) in which the air transportation has been arranged by the cruise line or tour operator. Thus, any changes in the airline's operations which require a change in flights or carriers is the sole responsibility of the cruise line or tour operator."

[jhannah]

That's simply AAA's way of telling you that if something goes wrong, don't call THEM.

[Randyk47]

Agree with Jim, that's simply AAA's disclaimer. Certainly the cruise line will try to accommodate late arrivers, they did us on our honeymoon cruise by holding the ship for a number of us caught in a weather delay out of Atlanta. One of the few times I've used HAL air and the only time we've gone to the port on sailing day. Since then we've starting going in the day before, even when we drove the one time. :)

[RedmondCruiser]

I once had a client who worked in the air department for Princess Cruise Line. She told me that when the cruise lines negotiate with the airlines for a fixed cost they also initiate "Title 79" ( the number may be incorrect) This meant that if you were delayed that the airline would put you on a top rung for priority flights. This means that you have some clout.

 

I once was stuck in Atlanta with no hope of Delta getting me to Ft Lauderdale prior to the ship sailing. I mentioned the Title 79 and the person behing the desk had no idea what I was talking about. I asked for a supervisor and she know what I was talking about. Miraculously a flight from Atlanta to Orlando and then on the Tampa was found, and it was first class.

 

This was 6 or 7 years ago and things may have changed but it may be worth looking into.

[DMRick]

That's simply AAA's way of telling you that if something goes wrong, don't call THEM.

But AAA is the tour operator. Sounds to me, that if it it gets broke, they are saying they will fix it.

[Krazy Kruizers]

As our AAA agent explained to us years ago -- THEY are not the tour operator -- they only sell the cruises, air, hotels, etc.

[TMJplus1]

I am very confused by all this! I had always assumed that if we were to pay the cruise lines' (exhorbitantly marked-up) airfare, we would have some extra assurance of getting to the ship on time - or at least getting our expenses covered if we didn't get there on time.

 

If there is no such guarantee, then what is the advantage to booking airfare through the cruise line?

[hammybee]

I think it's a numbers game. If enough folk are delayed, the cruise line, any cruise line, might hold the ship if there is reasonable certainty that the passengers will arrive by X:XX and if they have the ability to stay docked. Cruise lines are not however, obligated to hold the ship and create the potential for inconveniencing hundreds/thousands of passengers who got to the port in time. In the end, it is the passengers responsibility to arrive at port on time. The best way to do this is by planning to arrive at the port destination a day before the cruise is to depart. In the case of extreme weather related delays, even a day is not good enough. Imagine if you happened to be in Denver, just prior to Christmas.

 

The only reason to book air through a cruise line is for the convenience of one stop shopping or in the rare event, their prices are competitive for a split ticket, departing from X and returning from Y. The cruise lines will often use the least expensive routing which may add unnecessary or bizzaro connections,increasing the likelihood that something will go astray, during the connection.

 

I have not heard of Title 79. I do know about Rule 240 which used to be a Federal Regulation and is now allowed to be interpreted by each air carrier.

Generally speaking if the delay is caused by something the airline controls, pretty much limited to mechanical problems, the passenger is entitled to be booked on the next available flight, on any carrier or class of service and when necessary, be provided with hotel accommondations and meal voucher.

 

Of course, some airlines, some of the time, for some of their passengers, will go above and beyond what they are required to do. The same can be said for cruise lines.

 

The best defence is always a solid trip insurance policy.

[cruisinsuzan]

...This is why you purchase Travel Protection. Third party insurance, not always the insurance offered by the cruise line, covers delays and missed ship situations. As mentioned above, typically a cruise line is more apt to hold a sailing if they booked the air or for example in Alaska, when you have booked their transfers, say from Seattle to Vancouver and the bus is delayed.

[TMJplus1]

This is all very informative! I guess I won't feel so guilty in the future when I choose not to book my air through the cruise line. However, these recent threads on travel delays are a good argument for travel insurance - something I've avoided in the past but will definitely reconsider for future cruises.

 

For my April Zuiderdam charter cruise the airfare is included and booked through HAL - we are flying from Seattle to Florida and they were going to put us on a flight that arrived only 2 hours before the ship was to depart! (With a plane change thrown in somewhere too!) Thanks to you guys I INSISTED we arrive the day before - and they are also paying for our hotel that evening. I would never have thought to do this.

[kryos]

I've had this explained to me many times. I wish that they did make sure you get to the ship on their nickle, I would then buy cruise air; but they just book the air and maybe help with changes usually short of any compensation.

See my post on the other thread. If HAL did not pay to get people to the ship in the case of flight cancellations, etc. ... then they would have to close down their whole Sea/Air program, because no one in their right mind would use it. Why on earth would I pay at least double for my air by going through HAL than I could get by just going online and buying my own seats? People do it for the piece of mind of knowing that the flight arrangements are now HAL's problem and if something goes wrong, HAL will have to deal with it and not them.

 

I don't care what HAL's contract says. They will get you to the next port if you miss the ship as long as the fault was not your own (missed your scheduled flight because you were running late, etc.) and as long as you booked the air through HAL and not on your own. Believe me, HAL makes a pretty penny on that Air/Sea program. Compensating someone in that rare case where something goes wrong with the flights HAL booked is well worth it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Willia]

I think it's a numbers game. If enough folk are delayed, the cruise line, any cruise line, might hold the ship if there is reasonable certainty that the passengers will arrive by X:XX and if they have the ability to stay docked. Cruise lines are not however, obligated to hold the ship and create the potential for inconveniencing hundreds/thousands of passengers who got to the port in time. In the end, it is the passengers responsibility to arrive at port on time. The best way to do this is by planning to arrive at the port destination a day before the cruise is to depart. In the case of extreme weather related delays, even a day is not good enough. Imagine if you happened to be in Denver, just prior to Christmas.

 

That would have been a bad scene!!!!!!!!

 

The only reason to book air through a cruise line is for the convenience of one stop shopping or in the rare event, their prices are competitive for a split ticket, departing from X and returning from Y.

 

Invariable the case! - Booking on your own you invariably pay for two one way tickets - always more expensive.. Also true that the cruise line will usually 'puddle jump' you. For about $100.00 -+ extra you can request 'your preferred routing' - compare that with the cost of booking entirely on your own - and then make the decision.

 

I have not heard of Title 79. I do know about Rule 240 which used to be a Federal Regulation and is now allowed to be interpreted by each air carrier.

Generally speaking if the delay is caused by something the airline controls, pretty much limited to mechanical problems, the passenger is entitled to be booked on the next available flight, on any carrier or class of service and when necessary, be provided with hotel accommondations and meal voucher.

 

I was not aware of that either -it's now noted!

 

The best defence is always a solid trip insurance policy.

 

I'll drink to that!!! :D

[Bill S]

IMO, the simple lesson in all of this is: if at all possible, if you have to fly to the port, regardless how you book your air travel, book it to arrive a day before the day of embarkation and

have a good independent travel insurance policy in place.

I know it is not a perfect world and it is not always feasible to to those things. The ironic thing about travel insurance, like other forms of insurance, is that you are betting that something is going to go wrong and the insurer is betting that it won't!

[Jsipes]

Hi, I have been reading another thread where the person missed their ship because of bad weather affecting their air flights booked by HAL.

 

Many people keep saying that HAL needs to make this right.

 

Per the contract, when a cruiseline books the air fare they only act as an agent. Just like a travel agent. they only have the same responsiblities, ie to book the flight, they do not have to provide alternative transportation to the ship and they do not have to pay to get you to the ship. the air compnany is resposible for getting you to the booked destination, HAL is responsible for taking you on a cruise. And the travel insurance (if you have it) is responsible for reimbursing money spent on problems.

 

I've had this explained to me many times. I wish that they did make sure you get to the ship on their nickle, I would then buy cruise air; but they just book the air and maybe help with changes usually short of any compensation.

 

If that philosophy is the rule then why does HAL gaurantee to wait for you if the tour which they booked for you, acting as a agent, is late returning to the ship......

[dakrewser]

If that philosophy is the rule then why does HAL gaurantee to wait for you if the tour which they booked for you, acting as a agent, is late returning to the ship......

 

They don't. The ship - while it can delay a short amount of time - is at the mercy of the port authorities.

[Navy_Chief]

Guess those Greeks are pritty hospitable folk seeing they let us hang out 6 hours :D . The skipper had to put the Rotterdam in overdrive to get to Turkey and we still got there 2 hours late :D I suppose we could have left earlier but the ship was sold out.

[GeriatricNurse]

:)

IMO, the simple lesson in all of this is: if at all possible, if you have to fly to the port, regardless how you book your air travel, book it to arrive a day before the day of embarkation and

have a good independent travel insurance policy in place.

 

I know it is not a perfect world and it is not always feasible to to those things. The ironic thing about travel insurance, like other forms of insurance, is that you are betting that something is going to go wrong and the insurer is betting that it won't!

 

 

:) BillS: I am with you 100%! It is called peace of mind!

[happy cruzer]

See my post on the other thread. If HAL did not pay to get people to the ship in the case of flight cancellations, etc. ... then they would have to close down their whole Sea/Air program, because no one in their right mind would use it. Why on earth would I pay at least double for my air by going through HAL than I could get by just going online and buying my own seats? People do it for the piece of mind of knowing that the flight arrangements are now HAL's problem and if something goes wrong, HAL will have to deal with it and not them.

 

I don't care what HAL's contract says. They will get you to the next port if you miss the ship as long as the fault was not your own (missed your scheduled flight because you were running late, etc.) and as long as you booked the air through HAL and not on your own. Believe me, HAL makes a pretty penny on that Air/Sea program. Compensating someone in that rare case where something goes wrong with the flights HAL booked is well worth it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Well, if you don't care what the contract says , I don't think I can logically discuss this with you. However, maybe you could call HAL and see if they will promise to get you to the ship at any cost? I know what I've been told many times.

 

I am going to make my plans on what the contract says instead of what I think the cruiseline should do.

 

Safe travels.

[happy cruzer]

See my post on the other thread. If HAL did not pay to get people to the ship in the case of flight cancellations, etc. ... then they would have to close down their whole Sea/Air program, because no one in their right mind would use it. Why on earth would I pay at least double for my air by going through HAL than I could get by just going online and buying my own seats? People do it for the piece of mind of knowing that the flight arrangements are now HAL's problem and if something goes wrong, HAL will have to deal with it and not them.

 

I don't care what HAL's contract says. They will get you to the next port if you miss the ship as long as the fault was not your own (missed your scheduled flight because you were running late, etc.) and as long as you booked the air through HAL and not on your own. Believe me, HAL makes a pretty penny on that Air/Sea program. Compensating someone in that rare case where something goes wrong with the flights HAL booked is well worth it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Well, if you don't care what the contract says , I don't think I can logically discuss this with you. However, maybe you could call HAL and see if they will promise to get you to the ship at any cost? I know what I've been told many times.

 

I am going to make my plans on what the contract says instead of what I think the cruiseline should do.

 

Safe travels.

[Iamthesea]

We have booked our own air (always a day or more ahead of scheduled cruise departure) with the exception of one cruise to Hawaii. The cruiseline had a better fare for that trip, however we did pay a little extra to get "customized" cruise care. This means we were able to pick the dates and times we were to leave and return (2 days ahead for a stay in Vancouver and 3 days after disembarkation for a stay in Honolulu.) We also purchased our own travel insurance. The vacation was very relaxing and well worth the extra cost for customized air (around $50 pp.) We also felt a little better with purchasing air through the cruiseline for such a long distance trip and would probably do so again if we were to go overseas, but always with a day or two head start! ;)

[RevNeal]

Open Jaw flights and long-distance international routes where the Line books a block of seats on certain flights and, hence, can obtain better fares than we can are the only solid reasons I can think of for having the Line book my airfare.

 

The wording of the Fly-Cruise program does APPEAR to imply that they will get you to the next port if you miss the ship through no fault of your own but because you depended upon their arrangements. The program states:

 

If you purchase air transportation independently from Holland America Line, you will be responsible for any and all expenses incurred when joining the vessel in progress.

 

This statement implies that the opposite is true if you purchase air transport from HAL ... that HAL will be responsible if you have to join the vessel "in progress." However, from what has been said here it sounds this implication is false. Reading further:

 

We assume no liability for any acts or omissions of any airline, including, without limitation, those involving cancellation of flights, schedule changes, re-routings, damage to or delay or loss of baggage, flight delays, equipment failures, accidents, pilot or other staff shortages, overbooking or computer errors. The liabilities and obligations of an airline to you, and your rights against an airline, are subject to any and all terms and conditions of the airline's ticket and tariffs and all applicable governmental laws and regulations. Passengers who are booked by Holland America on a Holland America charter flight are guaranteed a reservation on the cruise ship. If a passenger confirmed on a Holland America charter flight is unable to board the ship due to cancellation or delay of the charter flight, the passenger will receive a full refund for the complete itinerary that includes the cruise fare, charter flight fee, and applicable taxes, fees and surcharges.

 

Note what it says above about not accepting any liability for the failure of an airline to get one to one's ship. The ONLY time they accept responsibility is if a HAL charter flight doesn't make it through and the passenger misses the ship. Then, the only recourse is a full refund of the entire cruise, flight, taxes, fees, and surcharges. Refunding all that may actually cost the line more than getting those who have missed the ship to the next port, hence they may well provide transport on to the next port of call ... but that is at the Line's discretion. Ditto with holding the ship.

 

One should always read the fine print.

I will only use HAL Air in those (rare) cases when booking myself isn't cheaper than booking with HAL. And, when I do book myself I will ALWAYS fly the day before (I have usually done that anyway).

[kryos]

Cruise lines are not however, obligated to hold the ship and create the potential for inconveniencing hundreds/thousands of passengers who got to the port in time.

Very true. They most certainly don't have to hold the ship. And in many cases they shouldn't. Why should all the other passengers onboard that ship have to miss a port or two because the ship stayed docked in the home port overnight awaiting late arrivals? But they do have to get you to the next port at their expense if you booked your air through them. They also have to pay any necessary overnight hotel costs as well.

 

Again, if they didn't have to do that, then why on earth would anyone book their air through HAL? Just for the purpose of paying the highly inflated prices?

 

Believe me, HAL only gets people to participate in their Air/Sea program because of the peace of mind it offers ... especially in this day of rampant airline mismanagement. Take away that peace of mind benefit, and HAL may as well shut down their entire Air/Sea department, and forefit the tidy profit it makes for them all year long.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita