Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[dakrewser]

Resort hotels have dedicated prime space to group bookings for a long, long time. Marriotts, Hyatts, 4 Seasons do this all the time. Pools, prime beach space, entire golf courses, tennis courts, restaurants and meeting rooms become off limits for the public guest so that the hotel can dedicate it to the group's exclusive usage.

 

And when a hotel does this, there's always another bar/lounge/restaurant available - either on the site, down the street or around the corner. There is no "down the street" on a cruise ship.

 

I'd suggest we all write to Seattle and protest about this situation. The greedy little gnomes are taking over....

 

To the OP: The second time this occured I would have walked in, sat down, and suggested that the "crew member" invite the guest Relations Manager to join me for a chat...

[RedmondCruiser]

Whoever OK'd this, whether on ship or from the home office, should be FIRED, and that includes the Hotel Manager. I cannot think of a more stupid and shortsided decision. The crowsnest is a signature area on HAL ships and it is enjoyed by all passengers. I have my pre dinner cocktails in the crows nest on every cruise. I would not want to be the shipboard person who tries to tell me that I cannot use the area for the entire cruise. I have a very long fuse but that would set me off.

 

I would suggest that people should ignore the sign that says "Private Party" and go on in. The more people who do, the more difficult it is to separate the crowd. If denied access to certain areas of the ship for extended lengths of time - demand an account credit. ---- Its not the money that counts. Its the principle. An account credit is the last thing that the line wants to do and therefore is one of the only things that may yield results.

 

If your on board the ship also e-mail the home office.

[TomBeckCruise]

And it's every cruise line. If you sailed X and HAL 15 years ago you'd probably think things are a little worse in most areas i.e. food, service, etc.

To me it seems the cruise lines are going through what every corporation has gone through, cost cutting. that means smaller crews with less training and less pay, smaller drinks/portions/cheaper shows, cheaper food. it's squeeze every nickel you can to help the bottom line.

 

We've gone from X to Hal and back and back and back thinking that the other might be better. they are both declining slowly imho , but are both still enjoyable.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Since the Rotterdam's Crow's Nest is completely closed for this private group for the entire cruise, I would venture to say that this was arranged through the Seattle office. Those on board the ship, including the HM, have to do what ever the Seattle office tells them to do.

[localady]

:( Well I'm flabbergasted! Having any public area of the ship off limits to most passengers for the entire cruise for this reason is totally unacceptable. I agree that for a few occasions it's fine. But not for the whole cruise. Finding the lounge empty just adds insult to injury. HAL promotes the Crow's Nest on their website as "inviting observation lounge by day, dazzling nightclub by night." It should be available to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME with only rare exception.

 

Jim-

I am with you!! The notion that Park West can "Rent the Crows Nest" for the entire cruise where that space is advertised in ALL of HAL's literature as being a PUBLIC space is just plain wrong.:mad:

It also happens to be false advertising on the part of HAL and is just over the top.:rolleyes:

IS ANYONE IN SEATTLE LISTENING ??????:eek: :eek:

[hammybee]

To me it seems the cruise lines are going through what every corporation has gone through, cost cutting.

 

Shareholders, people like you and me, demand a return on their financial investment in a company. Who wants to park their money with a company that is going to lose them money, over time, all the time? All companies need to increase revenues and reduce their costs to achieve profit.

 

Cruising, like flying, has limited opportunity to increase inside/outside cabin versus coach fares, due to competition. I am continuously astounded by how inexpensive it is to fly domestically, outside of premium weeks. I flew round trip to Fort Meyers this past weekend for less than the round trip cost of a taxi to the airport. How can this be?

 

And of course, fellow pax complained that flying was nothing like it once was. DUH. Somewhere in all of this many consumers seem to forget that they are flying at a fraction of what such a flight once cost them. Or perhaps they would not have been able to fly, if they had to pay the fare necessary had not the airline figured out how to continue to do so as cheaply as possible, while maintaining pax safety.

 

How much "bean counting" and "nickle and diming" is necessary to achieve this kind of value? The carriers that are able to achieve the objective at the least cost, tend to be profitable companies.

[hammybee]

And when a hotel does this, there's always another bar/lounge/restaurant available - either on the site, down the street or around the corner. There is no "down the street" on a cruise ship.

 

I'd suggest we all write to Seattle and protest about this situation. The greedy little gnomes are taking over....

 

How did you infer the OP meant that every bar and restaurant on the ship was closed. I thought the OP mentioned only the Crows Nest.

 

Please don't get me wrong, my heart goes out to any pax that is denied the use of the Crow's Nest for the duration of the cruise. And I think it crappy that the onus is on the pax to make a stink, post cruise, with Seattle, to receive some sort of compensation. There is a better and more responsible way of handling the situation.

[the2ofus]

Did Park West actually rent the entire Crows Nest on the Rotterdam so that any individual member of their High Roller clientele would have unlimited private access to the Crows Nest anytime morning, afternoon or evening during the entire cruise?

 

How many "privileged" people could we possibly be talking about if the Crows Nest appears to be empty most of the time. How much art could they be buying to merit such a perk?

 

It boggles the mind to consider how much such a deal must have cost Park West. I always thought the profit on those auctions must be obscene. Now I am sure of it!!

[hammybee]

Did Park West actually rent the entire Crows Nest on the Rotterdam so that any individual member of their High Roller clientele would have unlimited private access to the Crows Nest anytime morning, afternoon or evening during the entire cruise?

 

How many "privileged" people could we possibly be talking about if the Crows Nest appears to be empty most of the time. How much art could they be buying to merit such a perk?

 

It boggles the mind to consider how much such a deal must have cost Park West. I always thought the profit on those auctions must be obscene. Now I am sure of it!!

 

I am with you as it relates to the reason as to why the Crows Nest is closed to pax for the entire cruise, 24x12. That Parkwest rented the space for its employees makes no sense.

 

I hope the OP escalates this situation to the appropriate level of onboard management as opposed to a nilly-willy officer or pax heresay, to obtain a response.

[sab490]

Did Park West actually rent the entire Crows Nest on the Rotterdam so that any individual member of their High Roller clientele would have unlimited private access to the Crows Nest anytime morning, afternoon or evening during the entire cruise?

 

How many "privileged" people could we possibly be talking about if the Crows Nest appears to be empty most of the time. How much art could they be buying to merit such a perk?

 

It boggles the mind to consider how much such a deal must have cost Park West. I always thought the profit on those auctions must be obscene. Now I am sure of it!!

 

On Noordam I believe the Crow's nest was open to the public after dinner, but I am not certain. We never really knew how many people there were. We only ran into them as a group once during the cruise on Grand Turk when they returned from a tour and had lunch as a group at Margaritaville. It was a small group...no more than 30 people, but I doubt that was the entire group. I also heard that they ate in the PG every night, but it never seemed crowded when we walked by.

 

- Steve

[mountainmare]

Actually now you have me worried--we are getting ready to book our next HAL cruise and are going with friends who have mobility issues (selling them on the fact that HAL is a good cruiseline that understands these things). I had my TA do a test call, explaining that the crows nest would be an important viewing spot for us--and wanting to know in advance if there would be a problem. The response was that except for occasional private parties the public spaces on HAL ships were open to all passengers.

SO... where should I call to get an answer before booking my cruise? In case forewarned is forearmed and I do not want to book a cruise when my favorite spot is off-limits during the daytime viewing hours.

So, the bottom line is we didn't book any cruise today and are considering something else.

[sab490]

Actually now you have me worried--we are getting ready to book our next HAL cruise and are going with friends who have mobility issues (selling them on the fact that HAL is a good cruiseline that understands these things). I had my TA do a test call, explaining that the crows nest would be an important viewing spot for us--and wanting to know in advance if there would be a problem. The response was that except for occasional private parties the public spaces on HAL ships were open to all passengers.

SO... where should I call to get an answer before booking my cruise? In case forewarned is forearmed and I do not want to book a cruise when my favorite spot is off-limits during the daytime viewing hours.

So, the bottom line is we didn't book any cruise today and are considering something else.

 

This problem is not specific to HAL. It happens on other lines as well. I just e-mailed HAL (from the web site) to ask about groups on our 12/1 cruise. I usually start there, then after they answer I will call ship services to confirm their response.

 

- Steve

[bepsf]

To the OP: The second time this occured I would have walked in, sat down, and suggested that the "crew member" invite the guest Relations Manager to join me for a chat...

 

...as I dialed HAL/Seattle on my cellphone and asked to be connected to Stein Kruse's office immediately.

:mad:

[hammybee]

SO... where should I call to get an answer before booking my cruise? In case forewarned is forearmed and I do not want to book a cruise when my favorite spot is off-limits during the daytime viewing hours.

So, the bottom line is we didn't book any cruise today and are considering something else.

 

This is silly. There are no guarantees. The flight to your next cruise could be cancelled. The hotel you book for your pre cruise might be oversold or burn to the ground. The cruise might be cancelled due to a charter or mechanical problems. The intinerary might change due to weather or sea conditions. And by-golly, the Crow's Nest or it's equivelent, on any ship might be booked for a private function or if we are to believe what the OP heard, for the duration of the cruise.

 

Park West Galleries and their affiliate company Park West @ Sea is the largest art seller in the world. 50% of their income comes from onboard sales. They began selling art onboard cruise ships in the late 60's with Celebrity. Pax buy into the value because no sales tax or import duty fees are imposed.

 

To say that Park West @ Sea has some serious muscle behind it, is an understatement. That they might have used this muscle to obtain the exclusive use of the CrowsNest is darn incredible, if it is indeed true.

 

I have no interest in buying art while cruising, but I do appreciate their contribution to each of my cruises. They help enable cruising to be the value it is for most of us and none of us are forced to look, let alone buy any of it.

[hammybee]

This problem is not specific to HAL. It happens on other lines as well. I just e-mailed HAL (from the web site) to ask about groups on our 12/1 cruise. I usually start there, then after they answer I will call ship services to confirm their response.

 

- Steve

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there will be groups on your next cruise, any cruise, any cruise line. A group is defined as 8 or more cabins.

Larger groups that resell cruises usually have an option on cabins. Neither the cruise line or the reseller knows, with any certainty how many of those cabin options will be exercised until they are paid in full.

 

Wanting to know 8 months in advance of a sailing is unreasonable and the response you get today will not be the response you get tomorrow, let alone 10/1.

 

December, pre holiday, is a tough month for cruise lines and resellers of 7 day cruises because most folk are preoccupied with their own holiday plans. Often times cabins sell for substantially less than they do during the hurricane season. If there is going to be a larger group onboard during your sail, it is most likely going to be a large reseller who is already advertizing cabin space on the internet. Poker comes to mind.

[twinkletoes4445]

People talk about changes in cruising with HAL. This is a prime example.

 

In my opinion, it's this sort of thing that will unlimately do serious damage to HAL's reputation as the cruise line of choice for so many experienced travelers if it is not gotten under control.

 

The OP is right, he rented the Crow's Nest for his and other paying passengers' use when he purchased his cruise. For HAL to disregard his interests so completely (for the entire cruise) is simply not right.

 

Personally, I hope that many passengers call this to HAL's attention; so many in fact that it will not happen again.

 

I completely agree.

 

HAL needs to be very careful about doing this sort of thing. I still remember the hassles shonuf went through after she found out that her cruise had been chartered, and she was bumped. It was a mess and these things are things we take into consideration when booking a vacation.

 

It's a cruise ship. It's not like you can leave and go elsewhere for entertainment. If HAL continues this, they are going to be know for catering to "groups" and "charters" and the single cruiser is just going to be the one that suffers.

[RedmondCruiser]

The Crows Nest is a premium area on HAl ships - I do no care if Park West rules the art world - providing them the entire Crows Nest for the entire cruise is not right.

 

HAL could provide - the Hudson Room - the Oak Room - the Kings Room - the Queens Room ----- NO PROBLEM --- the Crows Nest --- NO

 

Those currently on the Rotterdam should not buy overpriced art and should occupy the Crows Nest anyway. Brian has the right idea -- call HAL in Seattle. I called and the Rotterdam coordinator is NOT available. I was told that HAL could sell any area of the ship if they so choose. ----

 

Passengers should demand an account credit -- only way to get their attention.

[mountainmare]

I don't mind a private function, I do mind an entire cruise. If the flight is cancelled I get on the next flight, or fly the next day, if the hotel burns (actually this happened to us once) you are usually put up in another hotel.

I do check with a resort in advance to see if it has been sold to a large group for most of my visit--then adjust, but I would rather make my decision at home, in advance instead of be unpleasantly surprised after I'm on a ship. Just doing my homework before I plunk down my money, especially since we are going with first time cruisers.

[mamaofami]

This is silly. There are no guarantees. The flight to your next cruise could be cancelled. The hotel you book for your pre cruise might be oversold or burn to the ground. The cruise might be cancelled due to a charter or mechanical problems. The intinerary might change due to weather or sea conditions. And by-golly, the Crow's Nest or it's equivelent, on any ship might be booked for a private function or if we are to believe what the OP heard, for the duration of the cruise.

 

Park West Galleries and their affiliate company Park West @ Sea is the largest art seller in the world. 50% of their income comes from onboard sales. They began selling art onboard cruise ships in the late 60's with Celebrity. Pax buy into the value because no sales tax or import duty fees are imposed.

 

To say that Park West @ Sea has some serious muscle behind it, is an understatement. That they might have used this muscle to obtain the exclusive use of the CrowsNest is darn incredible, if it is indeed true.

 

I have no interest in buying art while cruising, but I do appreciate their contribution to each of my cruises. They help enable cruising to be the value it is for most of us and none of us are forced to look, let alone buy any of it.

 

 

Regardless of the muscle behind this group, closing the Crow's Nest for the entire cruise isn't like closing the Ocean Bar. The Crow's Nest can be an incredible place in the morning on sea days. You can stretch out in their lounge chairs and read or just watch the ocean go by. There is no other venue like it on the ship. It tends to be very quiet and special. Why should I be "kept out" for the whole cruise when there's no one else there?

 

I agree with Brian. Some well placed calls to the proper people should at least be attempted so they know our feelings.

[serendipity1499]

I'm amazed & disappointed in HAL for doing this for an entire 12 day cruise on the Rotterdam..If it was us, we also would be very annoyed..:( The Crow's Nest is one of our favorite places to enjoy a sea day especially when it's too hot to be out on the Promenade Deck...

 

Just for the fun of it we spent a few days in one of Park West's Auctions, & were truly amazed how many passengers actually buy their over-priced pieces..Some clients were dealers who purchased 8 or 10 pieces...

 

Even won a Schaefer-Miles Serigraph (Summer Enchantment)& paid $30 for shipping (a rip-off as standard flat rate shipping is about $19.00)..Could have had an official appraisal for $30.00 more (opted out of that) & of course they tried to get us into their framing gallery..At home it cost over $200 to frame it..It's a beautiful scene, but have seen this exact one auctioned off in e-bay for as little as $45.00..

 

In any event as Hammybee said they have to generate more $$$ for their Stock Holders, but do they have to do this at the expense of their other passengers?

 

We've been on many HAL cruises & it has been our favorite line, but now realize we may have to look elsewhere to enjoy the type of cruising & service that set HAL apart from the other mass market lines..

 

I'm very sad about that & believe it's a shame! :( Betty

[hammybee]

I completely agree.

 

It's a cruise ship. It's not like you can leave and go elsewhere for entertainment. If HAL continues this, they are going to be know for catering to "groups" and "charters" and the single cruiser is just going to be the one that suffers.

 

I am certain that most major hotel enterprises and cruise lines want to be considered as the first choice for charters and large groups.

 

HAL, by design,probably has a better shot at it than most, due to the size of its ships versus the mega ships, and its reputation for a premium experience. When a cruise line, any cruise, line sells a charter, they transfer the cost and risk of reselling cabins to the company who chartered the ship. Selling 900 cabins is far more reasonable than selling 2000 cabins.

 

Let's get extreme here and speculate that HAL got so good at attracting charter business that all 7 day sails were booked a year in advance. This is good business and regardless of how any of us feel, the hospitality business is a 365 day for-profit business operation with responsibility to their sharholders to provide a decent return on their investment.

 

It would be a significant lack of fiscal responsibility for a cruise line or resort hotel to turn down a charter or a large group option in favor of individual pax/guests and risk empty cabins/hotel rooms.

[hammybee]

I'm amazed & disappointed in HAL for doing this for an entire 12 day cruise on the Rotterdam..If it was us, we also would be very annoyed..:( The Crow's Nest is one of our favorite places to enjoy a sea day especially when it's too hot to be out on the Promenade Deck...( Betty

 

I am amazed that we are reacting to a single report of one pax's experience of being denied access to the CrowsNest and the heresay reasoning behind this. I am not doubting the OP has not been able to gain access when desired. It makes no sense to me that any cruise line would do so 24x12, and not make pax aware of this and why and then leave the room empty. There is more to this story and I hope that the OP escalates this to the appropriate level of onboard management and finds out what is really going on.

[RedmondCruiser]

Hammybe ---- This is not a charter. This is obstructing paying passengers from a very favored area of the ship. On a charter the paying group can do what ever they so please. Thats fine - so long as they charter the entire ship.

 

Since HAL will not respond to phone calls on this subject today. It would be interesting to call and ask them how much it would cost to charter the Crows Nest for an entire cruise. If the original post is 100% correct ( and I still do not know this for a fact ) then there should be a price for this exclusionary rental.

 

If anyone can get a definative answer from HAL please post it. I called and only asked if the statement was true or not. Seems they would rather not respond.

[hammybee]

Regardless of the muscle behind this group, closing the Crow's Nest for the entire cruise isn't like closing the Ocean Bar. The Crow's Nest can be an incredible place in the morning on sea days. You can stretch out in their lounge chairs and read or just watch the ocean go by. There is no other venue like it on the ship. It tends to be very quiet and special. Why should I be "kept out" for the whole cruise when there's no one else there?

 

I agree with Brian. Some well placed calls to the proper people should at least be attempted so they know our feelings.

 

I too enjoy the CrowNest during all hours of the day and evening.

 

I am sorry. I was not aware that you were on this cruise too and being kept out when no one else was there.

 

Are you suggesting that those of us reading, call 1-800-HAL and ask them what the deal is, in the CrowNest on the Rotterdam, this minute, because of something we read on a message board?

[hammybee]

Hammybe ---- This is not a charter. This is obstructing paying passengers from a very favored area of the ship. On a charter the paying group can do what ever they so please. Thats fine - so long as they charter the entire ship.

 

I understand this is not a charter. My reponses relative to charters and groups is based on on posters using this thread to gripe about charters and groups in general.

 

I have nothing but empathy for the OP's perception of the situation. I am also not satisfied with heresay and like everyone, want to know the real story.