Parkwest Takes Over Rotterdam's Crow's Nest - Denies Passengers Access

[Copper10-8]

I agree .... somewhat. To me there are three catagories of problems.

 

Petty Annoyances :rolleyes: (most of the things you listed) I don't let them bother me at all.

Major Inconveniences :confused: (like this Crow's Nest thing) Worth a discussion with customer relations and/or a letter to the cruise line, but doesn't change my overall enjoyment of the cruise.

Cruise Killers :mad: (like the young teens running amok on our Galaxy cruise) Couldn't get home soon enough!

 

- Steve

 

Agreed! You deal with it, you compromise and you move on!

[hammybee]

In the meantime, I hope we can get more definitive information before we "man the barricades".

 

This is my only position on this topic. I am not going to react to a single report based upon heresay.

[hammybee]

You know very well what the people who are upset here about the Crow's Nest are talking about.

 

Peaches, I really don't know why anyone is upset. None of us, including the OP know, with certainty, why the CrowsNest is closed.

 

Half of the posts are venting about charters and groups which may or may not have anything to do with why the CrowsNest is closed to pax.

 

The CrowsNest is a popular area of the ship and favored by many. That it and other spaces are used by groups is nothing new.

 

That it reportedly is not available 24x12 is speculation. I remain as curious as the next guy to learn the real story. And if I were onboard I would still be tapping my spoon to the glass along with the rest of late seating, until onboard management gave us an explanation.

[Copper10-8]

Of course it is like everything in life and many things are minor problems on the ships and we ALL compromise. However, no access to the major public lounges is not minor. I don't expect to book a cruise and have to stay in my suite because the lounges are being used by groups. I do expect to not have escargot every night and complain about none of the things you listed. You know very well what the people who are upset here about the Crow's Nest are talking about.

 

It is my understanding based on the OP's first post that one lounge is being "rented" by Park West from an unknown time in the AM to 10 PM every day of his cruise. That leaves two additional lounges, both with glass windows through which one can observe the sea, on board to choose from and enjoy.

In addition, one can also take a moving position (at a speed of one's choosing) on one of the treadmills inside the Gym in order to enjoy the same view as one would have from the aforementioned Crow's Nest. Choosing this option, would kill the two proverbial, yet less fortunate, birds with the one proverbial stone (or engage in one-stop shopping): One may enjoy the natural wonder, oh wonder, of the oceanus maximus, AND, one can partake in an excellent workout:) Isn't cruising great?:)

[serendipity1499]

I am amazed that we are reacting to a single report of one pax's experience of being denied access to the CrowsNest and the heresay reasoning behind this. I am not doubting the OP has not been able to gain access when desired. It makes no sense to me that any cruise line would do so 24x12, and not make pax aware of this and why and then leave the room empty. There is more to this story and I hope that the OP escalates this to the appropriate level of onboard management and finds out what is really going on.

 

First of all Hammy, I am not reacting to a single Report of one Pax experience & it is not hearsay reasoning:( ....Perhaps you should re-read this thread..Three Posters said they were locked out of the Crows nest until late at night, in the past six months on the Oosterdam, Noordam & now the Rotterdam for a Park West Group & two of them were asked to leave the Crows Nest...I'm not naive enough to believe just one Posters comments & would also have said that does not make sense! But when three Posters have the same experience, I tend to believe the stories.. Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it's not true...Agree with Localady & won't put my head in the sand & wish it away!...When I believe a decision is right I'll defend it, but when I believe something is wrong I'll stand up & say it! That is what this board is about..

 

The reason we agreed to our Nov. Oceania cruise to the Amazon was because Frank Del Rio stepped in & made a decision to assist a single Passenger who was unhappy & posted on Cruise Critic..He also publicly apologized to the Poster on this board...Now that takes Guts! I was very impressed with his decision & when the oportunity came up to take this cruise, we booked it..

 

You can keep preaching about the bottom line & what Companies need to do to satisfy their Stock holders, but many Airlines, Hotels, Travel Agents etc. have gone under in the past 30 years, because they made lots of bad decisions!:(

 

Betty

[Chivalrygirl]

:mad:

Do you think it appropriate to lambast anyone based upon heresay?

 

Do any of us know for a fact that HAL rented the CrowsNest for the entire cruise?

 

As for me, I have a lot of time on my hands today, as if that is not obvious to the most casual of observers :)

 

I am not aware that HAL made any decision and certainly am not in a position to support anything. I do however, tend to see the phenomina of cruising from a perspective different than some people.

 

If I was on the Rotterdam right now, and in absence of any additional information, I would be leading the charge for onboard management to disclose to all pax if and why the CrowsNest has been and will remain closed.

 

Until then, I prefer to suspend judgement.

 

Hammy I have been skimming this thread and yes it has become clear to me that you might be just a tad bored and exercising your grey material LOL :D

 

I have no further comment other than to say a barricade is like a red rag to a Bull for this dumb Kiwi :eek:

 

No a second thought, nothing "p" me off more than going to the Crows Nest to find it filled all round the best seats with other peoples arses

[Nghthawke]

I don't want to compromize on my vacations. And maybe cruising isn't for us anymore. We travel all the time, all over the world, and I've yet to run into anything like this before. So it certainly something we want to think about prior to spending thousands on a cruise.

Couldn't agree more. Close off the occasional room now and then during the length of the cruise but not 24/7 for the entire length of the cruise (and I'm not even a fan of the Crow's Nest I much prefer being outside.) We're leaving on the Oosterdam on May 19th and we're already planning our next big vacation two years down the road. There have been a lot of negative comments here on the HAL board recently and it makes one think long and hard about whether the next vacation will be a cruise -- or something else.

[DFD1]

I may be missing something here, but Harbormaster originally reported on his own actual experience in finding the Crow's Nest unavailable and in the explaination given by the crew member.

 

For me that does not seem to be hear say. For me that seems like a first hand account.

 

In any event, if HAL is renting out any major public space on any ship for the entire duration of a cruise thereby preventing its passengers from using that space without first advising those passengers, that is wrong and should not be tolerated.

[amusea]

It would be interesting to find out exactly how many passengers were in the Park West group. The Crow's Nest is a very large lounge. Shouldn't there be some way to

block off a portion of it so that all passengers could use part of the space at any time of day or night?

Having access to the Crow's Nest after 10PM is a futile gesture. Its main function is for quiet times during the day and for sailaways and dockings. More information about this situation would make the whole mess clearer.

[twinkletoes4445]

Couldn't agree more. Close off the occasional room now and then during the length of the cruise but not 24/7 for the entire length of the cruise (and I'm not even a fan of the Crow's Nest I much prefer being outside.) We're leaving on the Oosterdam on May 19th and we're already planning our next big vacation two years down the road. There have been a lot of negative comments here on the HAL board recently and it makes one think long and hard about whether the next vacation will be a cruise -- or something else.

 

When we were on the Zuiderdam earlier this year, we did run into a couple of rooms that were closed for a short time for a specific group. That was no big deal. They even closed the Crow's Nest for the Suite Luncheon for and hour or so...which we enjoyed. But 24/7, if this is true, is just too much.

 

I remember having second thoughts about our cruise (there were a lot of negative comments about the ship on this board), but we had a wonderful time. In fact, we had such a positive experience that it's going to be hard the next time we cruise...we hope that cruise can live up to this past one. It was just that amazing.

 

Hubby said the same thing about the next vacation. He's just not sure he wants to mess with this sort of thing, and I agree. Maybe the solution is waiting longer to book, and hope by then all the charters are scheduled. You'd think that they'd have to advertise these charters at least several months in advance in order to sell all the cabins.

 

We didn't spend a lot of time in the Crow's Nest, but it would annoy me if certain areas of the ship are closed off for long periods of time for special interest groups.

 

I hope you have a wonderful cruise. Like I said, we had some reservations, but our HAL cruise was by far the best vacation we've ever had. It was just that awesome! I hope your experience will be just like ours!! :)

[twinkletoes4445]

In any event, if HAL is renting out any major public space on any ship for the entire duration of a cruise thereby preventing its passengers from using that space without first advising those passengers, that is wrong and should not be tolerated.

 

My husband said the exact thing tonight.

[cruznon]

It will be interesting to hear from OP further, especially after the cruise to get more details.

 

As others have stated, I would not be happy to find the Crow's Nest off limits throughout a cruise--it's just too important a spot on the ship to be available to only a select few passengers.

[dakrewser]

How did you infer the OP meant that every bar and restaurant on the ship was closed. I thought the OP mentioned only the Crows Nest.

 

 

That's not at all what I said. But there's certainly no equivalent venue available on the ship. And, unlike a hotel, you can't walk across the street, or down the block or take a taxi to an equivalent venue.

[dakrewser]

I am certain that most major hotel enterprises and cruise lines want to be considered as the first choice for charters and large groups.

 

HAL, by design,probably has a better shot at it than most, due to the size of its ships versus the mega ships, and its reputation for a premium experience. When a cruise line, any cruise, line sells a charter, they transfer the cost and risk of reselling cabins to the company who chartered the ship. Selling 900 cabins is far more reasonable than selling 2000 cabins.

 

Let's get extreme here and speculate that HAL got so good at attracting charter business that all 7 day sails were booked a year in advance. This is good business and regardless of how any of us feel, the hospitality business is a 365 day for-profit business operation with responsibility to their sharholders to provide a decent return on their investment.

 

It would be a significant lack of fiscal responsibility for a cruise line or resort hotel to turn down a charter or a large group option in favor of individual pax/guests and risk empty cabins/hotel rooms.

 

Who said anything about charters????

 

This is about selling an inferior product at the same price as the regular product. Any Mariners on that cruise - those who've spent time in the Crow's Nest - will be the first to look elsewhere for their next cruise.

 

I've got nothing against Park West (well, except they personify the worst asspects of "art marketing") as long as they don't impact my cruise experience. This would be a major impact.

[hammybee]

Who said anything about charters????

 

This is about selling an inferior product at the same price as the regular product. Any Mariners on that cruise - those who've spent time in the Crow's Nest - will be the first to look elsewhere for their next cruise.

 

I've got nothing against Park West (well, except they personify the worst asspects of "art marketing") as long as they don't impact my cruise experience. This would be a major impact.

 

My response was to Twinkletoes /post #41. She learned today that cruise lines can cancel a cruise when they charter out the ship. The charter theme has popped on this thread numerous times and I responded.

 

ParkWest @SEA does impact your cruise as it does mine. They attract a lot of cruisers who cruise to buy art. Like you, I have no interest in their product. Unlike you, I appreciate their contribution to HAL's profit center which makes cruising affordable.

[hammybee]

I may be missing something here, but Harbormaster originally reported on his own actual experience in finding the Crow's Nest unavailable and in the explaination given by the crew member.

 

For me that does not seem to be hear say. For me that seems like a first hand account.

 

In any event, if HAL is renting out any major public space on any ship for the entire duration of a cruise thereby preventing its passengers from using that space without first advising those passengers, that is wrong and should not be tolerated.

 

Of course the OP is giving us a first hand account. And I have no doubt that what the OP is sharing is their perception of the situation.The heresay (thank you dakrewser :) ) comes into play with references to other pax, a crew member and an officer. That to me is onboard village gossip. If indeed the CrowsNest is not available to pax, an explanation from a Senior Officer is the only thing that is acceptable in my book.

[barbon2]

Hi,

Have skimmed through this thread. We had the "poker group" on board for our Dec. Oosterdam cruise and it was also off limits for the duration of the cruise. I agree with other posters who state that I think it is unfair to block off any area of the ship for the ENTIRE trip. We are doing the Noordam in Sept to Alaska and I know there is both a cake baking and bridge group. I was able to find these by searching the net for group cruises. It looks as though both groups are small and that the bridge group is using some of the smaller meeting type of rooms. HOWEVER, the cake group is using the culinary center and I certainly hope that this is not off limits to the general public for the duration of the cruise. My husband and I both enjoy the cooking demos and my gut feeling is that they will not have them during this particular cruise, which is unfair and ashame. It is not that this will "ruin" our cruise, as another poster stated areas should not be off limits to guests for the entire cruise. I to have to say that the poker group did over run the ship and I hope not to encounter such a large group (600) on a cruise again.

Barbara

[hammybee]

The reason we agreed to our Nov. Oceania cruise to the Amazon was because Frank Del Rio stepped in & made a decision to assist a single Passenger who was unhappy & posted on Cruise Critic..He also publicly apologized to the Poster on this board...Now that takes Guts! I was very impressed with his decision & when the oportunity came up to take this cruise, we booked it..

 

You can keep preaching about the bottom line & what Companies need to do to satisfy their Stock holders, but many Airlines, Hotels, Travel Agents etc. have gone under in the past 30 years, because they made lots of bad decisions!:( Betty

 

Betty, I took your advise and reread all posts and my position is the same. I see only one post of the Rotterdam CrowsNest being closed 24x12 and what the OP heard from an officer, heresay in my book.

 

While strolling through this thread, I noted posts # 24, 32, 34, 39, 47, 50, 52, 55, 66, 77, and 78- all mine. Each and every one of them contains an expression of empathy for the situation.

 

I suggested that pax start tapping their glasses with spoons in protest, until onboard management addresses this situation. Perhaps you and others thought I meant this in jest. I was and am serious. If onboard, I would confront the situation and do so in numbers.

 

I think I tend to balance the perspective of pax and cruise line interests differently than some cruisers do. That Parkwest@Sea has tremendous muscle with all cruise lines is a fact of cruising today. That this muscle keeps overall costs down is the benefit to me. This does not mean I agree with turning over the keys to the CrowsNest, if that is indeed what happened, being a good call, on HAL's part- in otherwords, understanding the dynamics is not the same thing as agreeing with the outcome.

 

I too recall the Frank del Rio response on CC. It was impressive and he probably knows better than most, given he was the CEO of a bankrupt cruise line, ahead of its time. I think it very unlikely that HAL is going to do the same. They certainly had the opportunity, here, in the press as well as one on one, with those pax who were impacted by last year's pricing glitch, HAL's darkest day, in my opinion.

 

I am sorry that you did not understand that I am coming from the same place as you, but chose a road less traveled- understanding the business motivation behind some of the changes within the cruise industry.

[Spender Nui]

This is silly. There are no guarantees. The flight to your next cruise could be cancelled. The hotel you book for your pre cruise might be oversold or burn to the ground. The cruise might be cancelled due to a charter or mechanical problems. The intinerary might change due to weather or sea conditions. And by-golly, the Crow's Nest or it's equivelent, on any ship might be booked for a private function or if we are to believe what the OP heard, for the duration of the cruise.

 

Park West Galleries and their affiliate company Park West @ Sea is the largest art seller in the world. 50% of their income comes from onboard sales. They began selling art onboard cruise ships in the late 60's with Celebrity. Pax buy into the value because no sales tax or import duty fees are imposed.

 

To say that Park West @ Sea has some serious muscle behind it, is an understatement. That they might have used this muscle to obtain the exclusive use of the CrowsNest is darn incredible, if it is indeed true.

 

I have no interest in buying art while cruising, but I do appreciate their contribution to each of my cruises. They help enable cruising to be the value it is for most of us and none of us are forced to look, let alone buy any of it.

 

Park West started selling art onboard cruise ships in the late 60's with Celebrity? I don't think so. The Celebrity line didn't start sailing until 1990. I was on several of their earliest cruises ... and even then, in 1990, there was no art auction. I'm sure I would have noticed them because I can't stand them.

[Arizona Cruisin]

:) I just want to relate an event in the Crows Nest. Last Year we took a repositioning cruise on the Westerdam from Rome to Ft Lauderdale. We left Gibraltar and didn't have to be to the next port for a while. We went to the Crow's Nest for a drink after dinner. I had my feet up and was enjoying my libation. I looked around and realized that we were stopped in the Straits of Gibraltar. Africa was on the left. Europe was on the right. The Atlantic was in front of us and the Mediterranean Sea was behind us. If we were denied access to the Crow's Nest I would not have had this experience. This is something I will keep with me always. There are no other venues on the ship that present this experience.

 

I have been on cruises where the Crow's Nest was busy for several evening hours but if it were denied for an entire cruise I would seriously consider a change in provider.

 

Trudy

[Lefty Bob]

A question for suite passengers.

 

What if the Neptune Louge was rented for each morning and afternoon of the cruise and you could not use the services?

 

Also what if the laundry was "rented?"

 

Just wondering.......

 

LB

[hammybee]

Park West started selling art onboard cruise ships in the late 60's with Celebrity? I don't think so. The Celebrity line didn't start sailing until 1990. I was on several of their earliest cruises ... and even then, in 1990, there was no art auction. I'm sure I would have noticed them because I can't stand them.

 

My bad. Parkwest was formed in 1969. They got into cruising about 20 years later and claim X was the first. I think X was formed in the late 80's so the timing works. Maybe it was not all of the ships, all of the time. Or......more than likely, it was not the in your face experience that it now is :)

[PathfinderEss]

I had some friends that were also on that Oosterdam cruise where the poker group took over the Crow's Nest. They were deeply disappointed as the Crow's Nest is a big part of their cruise. When they got home they wrote a pleasant letter to the President of Hal explaining their disappointment on their cruise being unable to utilize that lounge. They received a very nice (large) shipboard credit back from Hal, so that would be my suggestion. I know it does not make up for this take over of the Crow's Nest but it helps. I'm surprise that Park West would want to p... off their would be cliental for buying their art work. I think I would also be writing a letter to Park West.

[pog27]

All public venues are not created equally. If the scammers from Park west want a vacation thats great but to close off the Crows Nest for an entire cruise for a small group, especially Park west I would be fuming. I'm on the next cruise on the Rotterdam leaving in 10 day (16 day Athens to London) and I promise you if the Crows Nest is reserved for a private group for the entire cruise it will be my last cruise on Holland America. The Crows Nest is one of the best spots on the ship and as others have said is advertised extensively by HAL, closing it for an entire cruise to paying passengers is completely unacceptable.

[grannynurse]

Celebrity was the old Greek line Chandris when it sailed in the 80's.

I don't know if it had art auctions then or not.

I'd like to add that I'm very disturbed about the Crow's Nest being closed to paid passengers for the length of the cruise.

We can gripe all we want but nothing will do any good unless HAL realizes that many loyal HAL cruisers seriously disagree with this tactic. The chances that will listen I think depends on what we ask them to do. We can't just demand that they will not in the future partition or close the area to private gatherings. I object to the area being closed and remain off limits to paying "guests" for the length of any cruise.

I hope someone is willing to take on this project, collect signatures of Mariners along with their days on board history, and compose and send a letter to Mr. Kruse. Numbers speak. I think it needs to be someone with a long term strong relationship with HAL.

GN