Freestyle catching on? - Holland America Line Introduces As You Wish Dining

[newmexicoNita]

I remember when this was first brought up, there were people on the HAL boards all up in arms and insisting it would never work. Looks like it not only worked well in their trials, but there was enough demand to go full fleet.

 

Retired, I though the same thing: the loyalist pointed out how bad "personal choice" was, how awful service was on NCL, etc and now I wonder what they are saying?

 

 

Nita

[newmexicoNita]

Haven't tried Freestyle yet, but will definately try for next year. Just got off a RCCL cruise to Bermuda and our tablemates were very nice, but after the first night, I got tired of attempting to make small talk with people I have nothing in common with. If my wife and I want someone to dine with, we'll ask our family or friends to go with us.

this has been my point many times: if doesn't mean there is anything wrong with table mates, it is just if you have nothing in common the week or 10 days can get very long, not to mention, even if your dining is about the same time each night, a half hour leasway can make a difference.

 

To Travage: regardless of what HAL is noted for, almost the worst service we have had out of 20 plus cruises was on HAL last fall. It wasn't just us, it was all 8 at our table agreeing. I shouldn't say it was awful, but nothing special and our waiter seemed to be put out that we were in his section. So much for service. On the other hand our cabin steward was outstanding. BTW, what NCL ship did you have overworked wait staff, just ok food and poor service. Could that have been NCLA? a totally different experience? NIta

[Retired not Expired]

Retired, I though the same thing: the loyalist pointed out how bad "personal choice" was, how awful service was on NCL, etc and now I wonder what they are saying?

 

 

Nita

 

I don't know. I've been having too much fun trying to keep up with the threads on the test RCI will be doing to even go look at the HAL boards.

 

Same thing going on with RCI boards as did with HAL. Entertaining reading.:D

[KeystoneCruiser]

I for one believe that traditional dining detracts from my cruise experience. I don't like having to cut some port visits short to come back and get showered and dressed up for dinner.

 

Amen!!

 

Ironically, Freestyling limits the choices of those expecting and/or desiring a traditional dining experience.

 

Limits how?? If you want to dress up for dinner, then you can. But at the same time, I don't have to dress up because I don't want to. Why should I be forced to be uncomfortable because of someone else's whims?

 

If I want to eat earlier, then I should be able to. I shouldn't be forced to eat later just because that is the only time available. (My wife and MIL will NOT touch food after 7:30 p.m., so if they got stuck on the late dining time, they would not be eating. They say eating late makes you fat:rolleyes: )

 

If I want to dine with just my family I should be able to do that. Why should I be forced to dine with others?? If you want to dine with others, then you can simply ask the maitre'd and you will be seated with others.

 

I don't see how that limits you at all. With Freestyle, you can dine however you wish...set time, set tablemates, fancy dress OR varying times, varying tablemates, casual dress.

 

What you are missing about America is not the Casual atmosphere, but the fact that we are a Free country and as part of that we are able to choose our own path and what we like to do. One should not be forced to follow what another person sees as "proper" or "traditional."

 

Finally, I'm a history teacher. "Tradition" changes over time. Trust me, what was "tradition" 200 years ago would be foreign to most people living today. I doubt many Americans would or could live like that. (and I am not talking about a lack of technology.) How many females today, bow their head when they meet a man? Most women today would be offended by that, but yet that was the "traditional" greeting.

 

In 50 years, I predict that most people going on cruises won't even realize that it was once "tradition" to have to dress up for dinner, to be forced to sit with others and be told what time to eat. The "traditional dining" experience will be totally different.

 

 

I though HAL would hold out a little longer before it started pandering to the mass-market.

 

What the mass market wants, the mass market gets. It's simple economics. If more people want something, then they are going to go to the company that offers that and the other compaines either have to also go to that or lose that money. It is the same for any business. Why did Wendy's add chicken nuggets?? Because McDonald's had them. Simple economics.

 

Why did Princess and HAL add dining choices? Because they were losing potential customers to NCL who wanted something different in dining. Trust me, RCCL, Carnival and Celebrity will follow.

[cliffd64]

Amen!!

 

 

 

Why did Princess and HAL add dining choices? Because they were losing potential customers to NCL who wanted something different in dining. Trust me, RCCL, Carnival and Celebrity will follow.

 

Seems like a no-brainer that Carnival is soon to follow... they own and operate HAL and Princess... RCCL and their other brand Celebrity will take longer no doubt, but they seem to be inching toward more choices.

[KeystoneCruiser]

WOW, just went over to the HAL board to see what they were saying! It's amazing! You would think that this Anytime Dining idea was the end of the world and the death of cruising. There are people who are lifelong HAL cruisers willing to cancel cruises and swearing never to sail HAL if this happens! They really have their support hose in a bunch over there!!

 

And I thought things got nasty sometimes over here!

[RSWBADGER]

Not only did NCL start it, Princess (another Carnival company) also has basically the same thing that HAL is implementing. Gotta love it when people take credit for others ideas.

 

That just leaves RCCL, Carnival and Celebrity, of the main lines, that do not offer their passengers a choice in dining. (RCCL may be trying it though)

 

With the other lines begining to adopt a variation of the Freestyle Dining and Freestyle tipping, the other parts of Freestyle (staying in cabin the last morning and dress codes) will most likely follow soon.

 

NCL really had a great idea with Freestyle....but now watch the other lines copy it..... and their cruisers actually believe they came up with it!

 

 

 

 

Can you tell us why you don't like Freestyle?

 

Princess introduced "Personal Choice, Anytime Dining" in early 2001 on their entire fleet, NCL introduced "Freestyle Cruising" in August 2000 on the "Norwegian Sky". Freestyle Cruising was introduced fleetwide in the summer of 2001.

 

We actually sailed on the "Sky" in 2002, Freestyle Cruising was our reason for trying NCL.

[berryberry]

I remember when this was first brought up, there were people on the HAL boards all up in arms and insisting it would never work. Looks like it not only worked well in their trials, but there was enough demand to go full fleet.

 

Yea - the outcry over the experiment from the old bittys was quite loud - but glad to hear HAL is taking it over all their ships now. Must have been such a success.

 

So happy NCL led the way many years ago with this - it is what a lot of people want

[berryberry]

The credit given NCL for their "innovation" is a little exaggerated.

 

I also feel sorry for the HAL crew, which is famous for its upscale service.

 

Having cruised numerous lines - with no allegiance to any (unlike some floks who defend their favorite line to the end) NCL does indeed deserve a ton of credit for leading the way with Freesstyle dining options which others have been slowly copying

 

And puhleeze - HAL's famous upscale service? What a load of . .. . . If you bought that from the folks on the HAl board, I feel sorry for you. Having sailed HAL twice, there service is really no different than any other line.

[Welove2cruise2]

"As you wish" dining is a BIG reason why we booked the Noordam on 10/31 -- that and the incredible price difference! AND the fact that we were actually able to snag a stern balcony!!:D

 

Of course I WILL post a blog while on board, and how will I be able to HELP but compare our Noordam cruise to NCL??

 

If NCL had similar itineraries out of NYC, with these prices, that's where we'd be....:cool:

[berryberry]

WOW, just went over to the HAL board to see what they were saying! It's amazing! You would think that this Anytime Dining idea was the end of the world and the death of cruising. There are people who are lifelong HAL cruisers willing to cancel cruises and swearing never to sail HAL if this happens! They really have their support hose in a bunch over there!!

 

And I thought things got nasty sometimes over here!

 

LOL - you ain't seen nothing til you see the old warhorses on the HAL board get bent out of shape. :)

[hazeleyez3]

Can you tell us why you don't like Freestyle?

 

Sure' date=' I prefer the traditional dining rooms as opposed to the "specialty" restaurants. Unless you travel in a large party you can't make reservations at the main dining rooms, and therefore you have to take your chances on the wait you'll have. Because of this it is very easy to miss shows, and possibly other entertainment on the ship.

 

With the traditional dining you at least have a time, and you know that, for the most part, you'll be able to have dinner AND see the show.

 

I also like having the waiter who does know what I like after a couple nights.

 

 

The credit given NCL for their "innovation" is a little exaggerated. None of the other cruise lines have adopted a true freestyle program-choosing instead to make the more sensible decision to offer traditional dining and alternative dining venues. Ironically, Freestyling limits the choices of those expecting and/or desiring a traditional dining experience.

 

Exactly... I have done two family cruises on NCL. The only reason we are doing NCLA is because of the ports. If NCL offered the traditional dining I would be more prone to sail them as a typical vacation.

 

Freestyling does not limit those expecting a "traditional" dining experience.

You may still request the same table and time for the week.

Funny that it just doesn't happen often on NCL.

 

I for one believe that traditional dining detracts from my cruise experience. I don't like having to cut some port visits short to come back and get showered and dressed up for dinner.

 

 

This is not always the case. I reqested the traditional on both the Crown and the Sea; however, I was denied both times

 

As is stated in the post above, the innovation comes with allowing your guests to be able to choose anytime/freestyle or traditional. NCL does not allow this... passengers must do freestyle dining.

[cliffd64]

Sure, I prefer the traditional dining rooms as opposed to the "specialty" restaurants. Unless you travel in a large party you can't make reservations at the main dining rooms, and therefore you have to take your chances on the wait you'll have. Because of this it is very easy to miss shows, and possibly other entertainment on the ship.

 

This not correct. You can, regardless of how many people are in your party make reservations in non-specialty restaurants. Not many people pursue this, as it really isn't necessary in most cases. I have cruised several times and had reservations for 2 in main dining rooms... never an issue other than they look at you kind of odd since you don't require them. If your evening revolves around a particular entertainment option(s) it's not hard to plan it out. Here's another advantage of freestyle I bet you didnt realize... if you are running late at dinner, you can skip dessert and go to the show... then come back later to have just dessert... Try THAT on a traditional setting.

 

I also like having the waiter who does know what I like after a couple nights.

 

This, too, is accomplished simply by asking to be sat in <insert waiter's name here> section. This I do quite often as well... Trust me, they will remember you the second time and will be flattered you asked for them personally.

 

There are many nuances to freestyle, maybe eating at the same time at the same table with the same people all week is preferable to you... that's ok. Freestyle isnt for everyone, but please try not to misinform.

[travage]

Keystonecruiser----

I understand and respect the majority of what you are saying, but I find fault with the "because we're a free country" argument. So because we're a free country are we going to do away with all formality and etiquette. In my opinion these things help a society show respect for itself and the other countries that we are associated with. Its too bad that instead of hosting a white tie dinner for the state visit of Queen Elizabeth II that the White House didn't throw a Freestyling dinner because after all thats what we're all about right?

 

newmexicoNita-

I have been on both NCLA and NCL and while NCLA makes NCL look like the Ritz Carlton its still what it is-a budget mass market cruise line. Granted, they are an exceptional value and have some very beautiful ships and interesting cover charge restaurants.

Unless I am totally uninformed about HAL, I find it hard to believe that they are comparable. I know HAL isn't Crystal but its also not on the NCL level. Your criticism sounds like it may be based more on personal taste than the technical definitions of how say a travel agent would place describe these lines, for example, Celebrity=mass market premium like HAL while NCL would be more like a value cruise line.

For all I know you might be hardest working person in the world, but those ship crews work very hard too. As a former waiter, I can't personally imagine serving Freestyle dinner 7 nights a week for 6 months for the automatic gratuity they make. In my humble opinion as someone who greatly respects those that have the patience to serve others, especially a cruise crowd who can from what I've seen be very demanding, $ 10 dollars a day split between all those people is not enough. Just trust me----they all liked it better when people tipped individually, but as keystonecruiser points out times are changing and the trappings of cruising are being reworked so perhaps it did truly became necessary for the cruise lines to institute the automatic tipping policies. After all it never fails to amaze me how a simple thing like tipping can be so confusing for so many people, but perhaps that too is a sign of our times.

[travage]

Cliffd64 saying that hazeleyez3 is misinforming the board seems unfair. Like hazeleyez3, my family has asked for and been denied traditional dining on an NCL cruise. From my experience on three NCL cruises, consistency between ships and their particular Freestyle policies seems to be a problem.

[hazeleyez3]

[quote name='cliffd64']This not correct. You can, regardless of how many people are in your party make reservations in non-specialty restaurants. Not many people pursue this, as it really isn't necessary in most cases. I have cruised several times and had reservations for 2 in main dining rooms... never an issue other than they look at you kind of odd since you don't require them. If your evening revolves around a particular entertainment option(s) it's not hard to plan it out. Here's another advantage of freestyle I bet you didnt realize... if you are running late at dinner, you can skip dessert and go to the show... then come back later to have just dessert... Try THAT on a traditional setting.



This, too, is accomplished simply by asking to be sat in <insert waiter's name here> section. This I do quite often as well... Trust me, they will remember you the second time and will be flattered you asked for them personally.

There are many nuances to freestyle, maybe eating at the same time at the same table with the same people all week is preferable to you... that's ok. Freestyle isnt for everyone, but please try not to misinform.[/quote]

Ok, fair enough... let me alter my statement... The following has been my experience with NCL

I have traveled on the Sea and the Crown

Have attempted to make reservations for 3 people in the dining room... was denied.

I have attempted, as I stated earlier, to request tradional seating, and was denied

Yes, you can request the waiters/waitresses you liked...and if they are working in the same dining room, at the same time you are there, and aren't very busy you will most likely have the same level of service as before. As in your standard restaurant, the level of service might not be as good if they have large parties and/or many tables.

As for the dessert, there have been times where I have excused myself after the main meal to go to other activities. Yes, I know you can return for dessert itself on NCL; however, since I am a diabetic, this really isn't an advantage for me.

Maybe I just hit two bad weeks with NCL.

Maybe other NCL (and possibly NCLA) ships grant passengers' requests for traditional dining.

My experience with the Sea and the Crown; however, was that the crew did not permit my requests.

How about I say that while I have heard of people being able to get reservations for small parties, and have traditional seatings, I have not been so lucky. New cruisers should understand that its on a crew by crew and ship by ship basis.

[cliffd64]

[quote name='hazeleyez3']Ok, fair enough... let me alter my statement... The following has been my experience with NCL

I have traveled on the Sea and the Crown

Have attempted to make reservations for 3 people in the dining room... was denied.

I have attempted, as I stated earlier, to request tradional seating, and was denied

Yes, you can request the waiters/waitresses you liked...and if they are working in the same dining room, at the same time you are there, and aren't very busy you will most likely have the same level of service as before. As in your standard restaurant, the level of service might not be as good if they have large parties and/or many tables.

As for the dessert, there have been times where I have excused myself after the main meal to go to other activities. Yes, I know you can return for dessert itself on NCL; however, since I am a diabetic, this really isn't an advantage for me.

Maybe I just hit two bad weeks with NCL.

Maybe other NCL (and possibly NCLA) ships grant passengers' requests for traditional dining.

My experience with the Sea and the Crown; however, was that the crew did not permit my requests.

How about I say that while I have heard of people being able to get reservations for small parties, and have traditional seatings, I have not been so lucky. New cruisers should understand that its on a crew by crew and ship by ship basis.[/QUOTE]

OK, fair enough... I will add that I have never been on the Sea or the Crown... and have to say that they are not in any way the best examples of freestyle vessels being so small. They weren't designed for the concept at all. In order to experience freestyle at it's best, you need to be on a ship designed for the concept in my opinion. Certainly not the case on the Sea or Crown (or Wind and Dream or Majesty).

As you can see all my experiences have been on larger ships for the most part, and perhaps this is a key factor. Perhaps I'm a little more persuasive... who knows, but never had a problem reserving a table for two at a specific time when we needed to.

[halos]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about all the cruise lines implementing a freestyle style ;) (I like traditional dining)but I know one thing (and it's a GOOD thing) This little change will begin the elimination of all the threads on Cruise Critic about not dressing properly for dinner.
Now we can stick with the other hot topics like babies pooping in pools, smoking, and irons in staterooms. :p

[heelfan94]

[quote name='cliffd64']As you can see all my experiences have been on larger ships for the most part, and perhaps this is a key factor. Perhaps I'm a little more persuasive... who knows, but never had a problem reserving a table for two at a specific time when we needed to.[/quote]
We've never had a problem with getting a reservation in any restaurant either. We found a table we liked on our first Majesty cruise, and the hostess reserved it for our entire stay. It was a pretty window table in one of the two main dining rooms (couldn't tell you which one). Maybe you and I have just been lucky. :)

[KeystoneCruiser]

[quote name='cliffd64']This not correct. You can, regardless of how many people are in your party make reservations in non-specialty restaurants.[/quote]

I have to take Hazel's point on this and disagree with you. (and I am a supporter of Freestyle). You cannot make reservations in the main dining rooms unless you are in one of the upper end suites. Friends have tried on several ships. It may happen sometimes (again, the inconsistancy issue), but not often.

[quote name='cliffd64']
This, too, is accomplished simply by asking to be sat in <insert waiter's name here> section. This I do quite often as well... Trust me, they will remember you the second time and will be flattered you asked for them personally.

There are many nuances to freestyle, maybe eating at the same time at the same table with the same people all week is preferable to you... that's ok. Freestyle isnt for everyone, but please try not to misinform.[/quote]

This is also not always the case. You can try to get the same waiter, but some things can happen: 1.) the waiter's section is full at that time meaning a longer wait. 2.) the waiter does not have any tables in his section large enough for your party or 3. (and the most prevelent), the waiter has been moved to a different section or restaurant.

It happened to us on the Dawn last year. We found a waiter in Impressions that we really liked. We went back a couple of nights later and asked for him. We were told that he was the "relief" waiter that night and had no tables of his own. But he was in the restaurant and did stop by to see us and (I think), helped our waiter that evening with our "quirks" (namely my mothers food allergies...lol).


[quote name='travage']Keystonecruiser----
I understand and respect the majority of what you are saying, but I find fault with the "because we're a free country" argument. So because we're a free country are we going to do away with all formality and etiquette. In my opinion these things help a society show respect for itself and the other countries that we are associated with. Its too bad that instead of hosting a white tie dinner for the state visit of Queen Elizabeth II that the White House didn't throw a Freestyling dinner because after all thats what we're all about right?[/quote]

BUT, if George W had invited me to the White Tie dinner, I could have declined if I didn't want to dress up. Not so on the traditional only ships. If you don't dress up, you are relegated down to the buffet. No choice.

The point I was making was that times change and the level that people respect you changes as well. If we could bring Thomas Jefferson or John Adams back today, they would be completely shocked at everything, including fancy dinners. Women without corsets? Women in skin tight dresses, women's dresses that show any skin under their necks! Men not wearing powdered wigs at the formal dinner! Even Abe Lincoln, a very "common" person, would be shocked at what people consider to be "formal" today.

Times change and as a result the norms and values of society of the world change. Yes, it is a big culture shock for people from other societies to come here. My personal dislike is for hats being worn in restaurants (whether on ship or not) but it is fast becoming acceptable. Ties are disappearing from many jobs, another example of more casual.

People don't see dressing up as important as they once did and it continues to grow. It was only a matter of time before the cruise ships had to accept changes or lose business. I think the "Freestyle" dining system will simply continue to spread over the other lines.

[quote name='travage']
Unless I am totally uninformed about HAL, I find it hard to believe that they are comparable. I know HAL isn't Crystal but its also not on the NCL level. [/quote]

Add my mother to the people who didn't like HAL. She has sailed on them twice (as well as NCL, Celebrity, RCCL and Carnival). Although she liked them better than Carnival and Celebrity, she felt that everything about the ships and their crews seemed "stuffy." Like all the workers were robots with no personality. She also felt that the passengers, for the most part, were old, rude, snobs who looked down on everyone and everything. (my mom is 78, for her to call someone old is something!)
She ranks HAL third of the five cruise lines she has been on behind NCL and RCCL.

[quote name='travage']Cliffd64 saying that hazeleyez3 is misinforming the board seems unfair. Like hazeleyez3, my family has asked for and been denied traditional dining on an NCL cruise. From my experience on three NCL cruises, consistency between ships and their particular Freestyle policies seems to be a problem.[/quote]

Another example of traditional dining being denied and again, the inconsistancy between ships and restaurants and what is done and what rules are enforced appears again!

[KeystoneCruiser]

[quote name='hazeleyez3']Sure, I prefer the traditional dining rooms as opposed to the "specialty" restaurants. Unless you travel in a large party you can't make reservations at the main dining rooms, and therefore you have to take your chances on the wait you'll have. Because of this it is very easy to miss shows, and possibly other entertainment on the ship.

As is stated in the post above, the innovation comes with allowing your guests to be able to choose anytime/freestyle [U][B]or[/B][/U] traditional. NCL does not allow this... passengers must do freestyle dining.[/quote]


Thank you for your fine reply.

Some simple points to help on your next Freestyle cruise:
1.) I have never had to wait for a table in the main dining rooms when I went before 6:15.
2.) I too have missed early shows due to the lengths of the meals. You can also go back for dessert later. (which I have)
3.) You can request the same waiter...not always going to happen due to the points in my other post.
4.) You can request to be seated with others. This is sometimes hard to accomplish because most people don't want to be seated with others.

Thanks again.

[kimdave68]

If X and RCI adopt I just may be enticed to return to their ships. Of course their food is another story (X) but what the heck? :eek:

People have to realize that lifestyles have changed dramatically since the 60's. I mean come on!

We never have dinner at the same time. (and I'm never on time when called!)

That said, I certainly do NOT want to have to get ready for dinner at a specific time every damn day on my vacation. That's just absurd. Sorry but this is 2007.

[Luv_to_Cruise]

We have always cruised NCL, but due to schedule issues, booked a last minute on HAL Maasdam in June 07. We never realized we'd miss Freestyle so much. We were assigned late dining 8:30!! We could not change it and subsequently ate in the cafeteria nearly every meal. It was disappointing and this poor experience on HAL makes me very, very happy to be planning our next cruise with NCL.

[Globaliser]

But before the triumphalism gets out of hand, don't forget that consistent experience on Princess is that traditional dining is over-subscribed and waitlisted, and anytime dining is under-subscribed and where you get put if you miss out. So it's not (yet) even for a majority of Princess passengers, let alone everyone.

[Retired not Expired]

[quote name='Globaliser']But before the triumphalism gets out of hand, don't forget that consistent experience on Princess is that traditional dining is over-subscribed and waitlisted, and anytime dining is under-subscribed and where you get put if you miss out. So it's not (yet) even for a majority of Princess passengers, let alone everyone.[/quote]

But this too may change now that they are looking at cards for diners coming into the anytime dining room. It seems many of the ones who get the traditional are misusing it. They go to the traditional room when it fits but when it doesn't, they've been going to the anytime dining room, both leaving many empty seats in the traditional room and jamming up the anytime. Now they are being carded, this will stop. They won't be allowed in the anytime dining room. Some of them may now opt out of traditional since they can't have the best of both worlds and not caring what it does to other diners. This may open more seats for those that want traditional plus keep the waiting down for anytime.

The system will work if they can keep the cruisers from screwing it up. I'm sure HAL and RCI will learn from the others.