A question of manners

[Cloud9 Bob]

:) Do you ever feel like you've just been trapped, because you held a door open for someone, and a stream of person after person after person walks through, some of them saying thank you, but none of them putting a hand to the door to relieve you of holding it?

 

I've totally had this happen...I find it funny also. What may get me a bit is when it's a single person and they don't even acknowledge your presence...like it's your job to hold the door for them. Usually I'll just smirk and laugh it off with my wife, but once I said "your welcome". The person was so embarrassed, I guess I taught them something, but I was the one that wound up feeling a bit guilty! Go figure.

[NCTribeFan]

Ah, Paris!

 

I love France. Naturally, my friends who have never been there think I'm crazy. I'd move to France in a minute!

 

I did a study abroad about 12 years ago. I was an "older" student (age more in line with the profs). I was stunned when most of my fellow students (all the usual age, 19-21) went to France for a month, speaking NONE of the language and didn't even bother to take a phrase book with them!

 

They would walk up to someone in Paris and say, "do you speak English?" Of course the Parisian would snap at them in French. I could ask the same person something, in my poor, elementary school French, and they would answer in perfect English! Why? Because I made the effort to speak in their language and wasn't arrogant enough to assume they should know MY language in THEIR country!

 

Yes, there are rude people all over the world. Some cultures just have different ideas of what constitutes Good Manners.

 

But there is no excuse for some of the behaviour we see on a regular basis.

[terri23]

It is my humble opinion that there are WAY TOO MANY Americans that have NO manners! You see them everyday, wearing hats in restaurants, NOT holding doors for the lady coming in behind them, slamming into you as they speed down the sidewalk or through the mall. The chair hogs on the ships. The ones that touch every piece of food in the buffet, with their bare hands, before they pick what they are going to eat. The ones that do not dress correctly for formal night. And the ones that walk right into our little children like they are not even there. And the ones that treat any and all wait staff, on ships, in restaurants, in the local McDonald's like they are dirt under our feet.

 

And it is OUR FAULT! Why?

 

BECAUSE --- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED SOMEONE ON THEIR ACTIONS?

 

Did you suggest they take their hat off in a restaurant?

Did you ask the maitre'd to remove the person in jeans & tee shirt from formal night?

Did you say "anything" to ANY of these rude people?

 

They might not correct their rude behavior just because one of us say something BUT if enough people say something I am willing to bet they will start thinking about it. If enough parents are told that their children's behavior in a restaurant is terrible I would bet they will eventually get the message.

 

And YES - I do - politely as I can - say something to many of these people. I also tell parents with wonderful polite children what wonderful children they have. I have also had people removed from the dining room on formal night, like the guy dressed in worn out jean, worn out motorcycle boots, a t-shirt with a large emblem on it and a black leather jacket. He had the misfortune of being at the next table, but next to me on a Celebrity cruise. They did not want to ask him to leave - said it would cause a scene. I said I would cause the scene if they did NOT remove him. They asked him to leave and change his clothes.

 

Silence is acceptance. This country is what we make it.

 

Your enthusiastic (and condescending) correction of the perceived rude behavior of others is nothing less than ... RUDE. If you don't believe me, just ask Miss

Manners. (reallyitsmema - you hit the nail on the head)

[leavnofingerprints]

Wow. I'm sorry you had that kind of an experience.

 

It just so happens, that I JUST got off the phone with a friend of mine, and we were talking about the rudeness of others that we meet when on vacation.

 

My friend and I never took a trip together before, but we both have had SUCH a hard time dealing with the complete and total lack of courtesy that SO many people show, when we're in public and in a "vacation" setting. You'd think people would be on their best behavior and would actually follow through with the training their parents should have influenced them with. But NOOOOOO...

 

I'm American and get TONS of praise for my kids (10, 4 and even my two year old), when they actually say their please's and thank you's. Of course with the baby, she says "Peeez" & "Tankyooo" and even a "Skoozz Meee". And of course I practice what I preach to my kids (except when it comes to eating healthy ) and do my DAMNDEST to make sure I'm not accused of being rude to others. Though there's not a lot of people who seem to give me reason to keep giving them respect, as I do.

 

It's easy to get angry at the kids who act like little animals, when they don't say "Excuse me", when they're trying to get from Point A to Point B. But it's reallyt their parents, who haven't told them the right way to act around people. Rude kids who never grow up realizing that they aren't the center of gravity in the solar system, most often grow up to be the rudest adults possible.

 

Waiters, phone operators, people in line with you, people around you in the theatre and the immediately surrounding people, who DIRECTLY influence what kind of experience you receive from the "event" you're at, are some of the more important people to satisfy. Or else you ALL may have a miserable experience.

 

I hate Christmas time at the malls. Hate it! Simply because of the hostility that surrounds you, no matter what. Pushy, rude, obnoxious, inhospitable, arrogant and quite often SMELLY people.

 

And when they get what they wanted... Do they give a simply "Thank you"? :mad:

 

 

I don't place the blame solely on Americans. I've witnessed it from every culture. But to be honest, not to directly offend anyone here... I've seen it come more from Asians (Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese, etc). I'm not a bigot towards them, so please don't get me wrong. I've even asked a few of our close friends whose backgrounds are from the Orient and who's kids go to school with ours... "What's the deal", I ask them. They see it too, but they see it from the French! :D

 

Not a lot of people can argue with that, either. :D Though I think it's more the Parisians, who are so rude. Especially TO Americans.

 

 

I'm not gonna' make excuses for anyone. We all put our pants on, one leg at a time... SO there should never be an excuse for mistreating someone, just because you'll never see that person again. I think that when so many people go away somewhere, they're spending a LOT of money and therefore feel they're deserving of something, in order to get their money's worth. And if that somehow "requires" them to push and shove to get what they want BEFORE the other person, then that should also "require" ME, to beat the crap out of them when they shove my kids aside, because they're needs apparently are more important. :mad:

 

 

I'm NOT a religious person, but there's one thing I place before almost everything else in life and that's a quote most of us learned, and I of course remember as a "Recovering Roman Catholic":D ... 'Do unto others, as you'd have them do unto you.'

 

It says a lot, while saying very little.

 

Yikes! Remind me never to cross you. :eek: BTW - I am not an American however I personally believe the lack of manners cuts a wide path. I blame a lot of it on the media and who they focus on as the roll model of the day.

 

LNF

[terri23]

We were on a Celebrity cruise last week and will be on a RC one next week. There were a lot of passengers from USA on board and I noticed that a large number of them did not say "please" or "thank you" when talking to the wait staff particularly with the servers in the WJ cafe equivalent.

 

We found all the passengers on board very friendly and courteous towards other passengers with very little pushing or queue jumping when getting on/off the ship/buses/tenders (unlike our experience with other Europeans on our MSC cruise in May). The overall friendliness of the passengers and crew contributed to this Celebrity cruise being our best cruise to date.

 

Was my perception incorrect or is there a cultural difference in the way crew are spoken to akin to the difference in tipping policies? In fact are these related i.e. in the USA do you show your appreciation using tips rather than verbally?

 

I don't think you were observing any sort of cultural phenomenon. I think you probably observed this behavior by a couple of people, started to think about it, and then sort of started looking for it and noticed it that much more (I don't mean that badly; I think it's just human nature). Who knows what you might see on your next cruise!! I think a lot of times we sort of "see" whatever we're looking for. Like people that have a few bad luck things happen at the beginning of a vacation - and the rest of the trip is colored negatively. Start out w/ a positive outlook and enjoy the reverse effect :)

[TahoeBob]

It is my humble opinion that there are WAY TOO MANY Americans that have NO manners! You see them everyday, wearing hats in restaurants, NOT holding doors for the lady coming in behind them, slamming into you as they speed down the sidewalk or through the mall. The chair hogs on the ships. The ones that touch every piece of food in the buffet, with their bare hands, before they pick what they are going to eat. The ones that do not dress correctly for formal night. And the ones that walk right into our little children like they are not even there. And the ones that treat any and all wait staff, on ships, in restaurants, in the local McDonald's like they are dirt under our feet.

 

And it is OUR FAULT! Why?

 

BECAUSE --- WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU CALLED SOMEONE ON THEIR ACTIONS?

 

Did you suggest they take their hat off in a restaurant?

Did you ask the maitre'd to remove the person in jeans & tee shirt from formal night?

Did you say "anything" to ANY of these rude people?

 

They might not correct their rude behavior just because one of us say something BUT if enough people say something I am willing to bet they will start thinking about it. If enough parents are told that their children's behavior in a restaurant is terrible I would bet they will eventually get the message.

 

And YES - I do - politely as I can - say something to many of these people. I also tell parents with wonderful polite children what wonderful children they have. I have also had people removed from the dining room on formal night, like the guy dressed in worn out jean, worn out motorcycle boots, a t-shirt with a large emblem on it and a black leather jacket. He had the misfortune of being at the next table, but next to me on a Celebrity cruise. They did not want to ask him to leave - said it would cause a scene. I said I would cause the scene if they did NOT remove him. They asked him to leave and change his clothes.

 

Silence is acceptance. This country is what we make it.

 

All I can say is you should hope you never see me on a cruise, You would not like the responce you would get. It would run something like this.

 

"why don't you mind your own buisness. What I have on is not any of your buisness"

[jzerocsk]

On European Cruise lines I have come across a good deal of rudeness from our Continental neighbours but they seem to be more consistent in being rude to both crew and fellow passengers alike!

 

LOL...well at least we yanks are at least nice to SOMEBODY ;)

[bplazo]

I have to agree with the above poster that it is my business and no one else's what I wear and my manners would be lacking if someone had enough nerve to make some comment to me.

[cs_ucf]

Let's not turn this into a cultural thing. People are rude all around the world, from all different backgrounds!

 

As a waitress, I've experienced some of the rudest people in the world and I can tell you they've been from a variety of countries (I used to work in a tourist area in Orlando).

 

My favorite is when I come up to a table, smiling and being genuinely nice, "Hello, my name is Chrissy, how are you all this evening?"

"Pepsi and a water, and bring the bread as soon as possible."

 

Ugh, not even the courtesy to respond to my greeting?! So obnoxious.

[terri23]

Let's not turn this into a cultural thing. People are rude all around the world, from all different backgrounds!

 

As a waitress, I've experienced some of the rudest people in the world and I can tell you they've been from a variety of countries (I used to work in a tourist area in Orlando).

 

My favorite is when I come up to a table, smiling and being genuinely nice, "Hello, my name is Chrissy, how are you all this evening?"

"Pepsi and a water, and bring the bread as soon as possible."

 

Ugh, not even the courtesy to respond to my greeting?! So obnoxious.

 

I think it's amazing that people on vacation can act so rudely (even if worn out from all the "fun"). Imagine how they are in "real" life!! :eek: they are racking up some bad karma for sure.

[BecciBoo]

A tip is not a substitute for good manners. The standard in the US is still to say please, thank you, yes maam, no sir, etc. At the very least it's still the standard in my family where according to my mother you are never too old to be punished for forgetting your manners.:p

 

 

Ditto Wrona: In the south, you are taught to say all those things as a matter of course and it never goes away, I am still saying No sir/yes sir to my Dad after 57 years!! Say it to everybody, even address the staff on the ship with Sir or Mam...just a southern sorta thing, I guess:o

[klfhngr]

Where is Chef Ramsey from??! : )

[FloatingFreely]

Why is it that we blame everyone except the person that is being rude???

 

It must be the way they were brought up??? Their parents didn't do a good job??? Give me a break!!! How about personal responsibility to the rest of society? At a certain point in all our lives we must take responsibility for our own actions. Now I'm not saying that a small child should be held to these standards but they are in the development phase of their life. They are still testing the boundaries and this is when you hold the parents responsible not the child. Once the child is grown and has become an adult all bets are off. They and they alone are reponsible for their actions.

 

My beef is with the service and retail industries in general and some of the people who respresent them each day. How many times have you bought an item or a service, gladly handed over your extremely hard earned cash, and not heard anything close to a "Thank You"?? It's as if they we are inconveniencing them by doing business there.

 

And don't even get me started on the "service with a smile" thing. That is a thing of the past in many areas. If people are not satisfied with their line of work then do something about it. I manage an environmental service company. That's right, my employees collect trash, and being rude to a customer or anyone else while working for me is subject to disciplinary action. I demand this from my employees and set the example. If they are not happy with the line of work that they have chosen then they are actively encouraged to find something, somewhere else, that will make them happy. Most of my employees are very happy with their profession, they are courteous and are paid handsomely for doing it.

 

Nothing drives me more crazy than when I, as a customer, am treated rudely. I can guarantee one thing when that occurs, you will reap what you sow.

[cruiserbryce]

My wife and I are both in the service industry and like to think that our manners are a step above those who people have noticed being less appreciative of staff on the ships. We know the feeling and are as polite as possible to the staff...I just dont understand where common decency has gone...its not that difficult to do...

[jbond]

I was born and raised in England and lived there a long time. One thing that impressed me when I arrived in the US was how friendly and well mannered people were, especially the kids. I've been on quite a few cruises and never experienced the behaviour that the OP complains about. My experience has been that people who are rude don't discriminate, they're rude to everyone.

One thing I will say in defense of Americans is that their use of foul language is considerably less than that of the British, where it seems that some people would be speechless if they couldn't use profanity.:mad:

[terri23]

Where is Chef Ramsey from??! : )

 

LOL hilarious:D

[leavnofingerprints]

One thing I will say in defense of Americans is that their use of foul language is considerably less than that of the British, where it seems that some people would be speechless if they couldn't use profanity.:mad:

 

When we would hear profanity being used, I used to tell my children that they should feel sorry for those who swear because they weren't educated enough to know the proper words to convey their feelings. I seems to have worked. ;)

 

LNF

[forensic]

Oh yes, going around being judgemental of everyone around you is a much better choice......:rolleyes:

 

It is your choice what kind of society we live in. What do you think social mores are:

 

"Social Mores: are strongly held norms or customs. These derive from the established practices of a society." YOU are part of society, it IS up to each of us to help establish GOOD practices of society.

 

If we, as a society except the norm to be people wearing hats in restaurants, never saying please or thank you, wearing of pants so that their underwear is handing out, etc. etc. These are not fads, these are the changing of our social mores.

 

If you stand by and do nothing Soddem and Gomorrah is what we will all have - and we are well on our way. I will bet you worry about recycling your trash or some other "green" issue, try putting a little of that effort into the society we live in. That is not being judgemental, that is just standing up for what you believe in.

 

And yes, I am judgemental. When there are rules, they are for EVERYBODY! The rules on formal night say the men wear a tuxedo or a dark suit. That seems very simple to me. Nowhere in those 5 words did I read:

sport coat

shirt & tie (no coat)

jeans

motorcycle boots

leather motorcycle jacket

chinos

non-matching sport coat and pants

shirt without tie

knit shirt/no tie

tennis shoes

dock shoes

 

I do NOT believe that people are stupid and cannot read those 5 words - so that only leave the option of "I am so important that I can do whatever I want" option! I find the best way to deal with that option is to have them thrown out of the dining room and therefore they MIGHT think maybe they were NOT so important after all.

 

The problem cannot be $ as a dark suit, shirt, tie and belt can be purchased in Wal-mart for $99.99 total.

 

Study history - History always repeats itself!

[dontpanik]

I have worked in customer service/hospitality my entire adult life and I can tell you that the rude people are not just Americans. There is nothing more aggravating than a person throwing around the phrases "Give Me" and "I Want". It is not acceptable for anyone to treat someone waiting on them or serving them as ...well as a servant. They are human beings doing a job and a polite "please", "thank you" and "your welcome" is not only civil and correct, but will go a long way in acheiving excellent customer service.:D

 

To the few rude people who see nothing wrong in their actions because they feel somehow "entitled", please do the rest of us a favor and stay at home ordering food and items on the internet. If you cannot act with respect to your fellow humans, we would appreciate not having to interact with you.

 

forensic - I'm sorry but I disagree that someone's clothing choices will lead to Sodom and Gamorah. I guess I don't offend easily, but I will say that verbal rudeness is intolerable.

[wvufan]

Good manners was never an option in my house-they were routinely taught and expected.

 

We sincerely appreciate good service and make an effort to help our assistants enjoy serving us.

 

Nothing would make us prouder in this regard than for our steward (waiter, etc.) to comment to his peers about how nice we were and how he wished all passengers were like us.

 

We treat those who serve us as equals, for they are. The fact that they have a job to do which may involve assisting us, cleaning etc., does not diminish their stature or worth-it only relates to their job at that moment.

 

Those who do not feel or show proper respect and courtesy to others often do not have much self respect, and it is sad when the only way some people can feel good about themselves is to debase others.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE:D :D Bob and Phyl

[terri23]

It is your choice what kind of society we live in. Where do you think social mores are:

 

"Social Mores: are strongly held norms or customs. These derive from the established practices of a society."

 

If we, as a society except the norm to be people wearing hats in restaurants, never saying please or thank you, wearing of pants so that their underwear is handing out. These are not fads, these are the changing of our social mores.

 

If you stand by and do nothing Soddem and Goamoreah is what we will all have - and we are well on our way.

 

Study history - History always repeats itself!

 

and throughout history, two wrongs have never made a right ;)

[RBOrrell]

I work at a client that is owned by an American parent company. I speak to various residents of the USA every day. I say "please" and "thankyou" all of the time. When I was growing up, the response to "Thank You" was "You're Welcome". 99 times out of 100 in dealing with my American friends, the response is "A huh". Once in a while it's "No problem".

[reallyitsmema]

It is your choice what kind of society we live in. Where do you think social mores are:

 

"Social Mores: are strongly held norms or customs. These derive from the established practices of a society."

 

If we, as a society except the norm to be people wearing hats in restaurants, never saying please or thank you, wearing of pants so that their underwear is handing out. These are not fads, these are the changing of our social mores.

 

If you stand by and do nothing Soddem and Goamoreah is what we will all have - and we are well on our way.

 

Study history - History always repeats itself!

I am sure history will repeat itself. Maybe you can follow some of your own advise from another thread....

 

Lighten up! You are in a public place with a few hundred (or thousand) other people that paid to lay by that same pool and do whatever they want to do! I could understand your being upset if you had people running around knocking into your chair, splashing you, etc. But MOST people have very short conversations on those radios. If that conversation was driving you crazy (and some can) maybe you could have chosen that 10 minutes to go for a dip, or go refresh your beverage? Each of us has something that irratates us when we are in those public places - chairhogs, smokers, other people's children and so forth - we have no choice but to live with it - OR sail a Luxury Cruise Line.

[vickiw0318]

Ah, Paris!

 

I did a study abroad about 12 years ago. I was an "older" student (age more in line with the profs). I was stunned when most of my fellow students (all the usual age, 19-21) went to France for a month, speaking NONE of the language and didn't even bother to take a phrase book with them!

 

They would walk up to someone in Paris and say, "do you speak English?" Of course the Parisian would snap at them in French. I could ask the same person something, in my poor, elementary school French, and they would answer in perfect English! Why? Because I made the effort to speak in their language and wasn't arrogant enough to assume they should know MY language in THEIR country!

 

This is exactly what my son (who was working in France at the time) told me to do if I needed any help when I was in France. Try to say something in French first even if it was "Je ne parle pas Francais" because it showed courtesy and respect. I did this when the train I was taking to the airport stopped for a while and I wasn't sure what was happening. There was an excited group of school kids on the train (on their way to EuroDisney and acting the same ways as I've experienced kids acting on planes to Orlando) and I couldn't hear the announcements being made to try to translate them with my high school french. I stammered out something like the above to one lady who did not speak any English. The guy behind her heard my efforts and responded in perfect English told me everything that was happening.

 

As for the main topic here, having grown up in the deep South, I would have been in much trouble if I forgot my pleases and thank yous and my sirs and mams.

[Oville]

It is your choice what kind of society we live in. What do you think social mores are:

 

"Social Mores: are strongly held norms or customs. These derive from the established practices of a society." YOU are part of society, it IS up to each of us to help establish GOOD practices of society.

 

If we, as a society except the norm to be people wearing hats in restaurants, never saying please or thank you, wearing of pants so that their underwear is handing out, etc. etc. These are not fads, these are the changing of our social mores.

 

If you stand by and do nothing Soddem and Gomorrah is what we will all have - and we are well on our way. I will bet you worry about recycling your trash or some other "green" issue, try putting a little of that effort into the society we live in. That is not being judgemental, that is just standing up for what you believe in.

 

And yes, I am judgemental. When there are rules, they are for EVERYBODY! The rules on formal night say the men wear a tuxedo or a dark suit. That seems very simple to me. Nowhere in those 5 words did I read:

sport coat

shirt & tie (no coat)

jeans

motorcycle boots

leather motorcycle jacket

chinos

non-matching sport coat and pants

shirt without tie

knit shirt/no tie

tennis shoes

dock shoes

 

I do NOT believe that people are stupid and cannot read those 5 words - so that only leave the option of "I am so important that I can do whatever I want" option! I find the best way to deal with that option is to have them thrown out of the dining room and therefore they MIGHT think maybe they were NOT so important after all.

 

The problem cannot be $ as a dark suit, shirt, tie and belt can be purchased in Wal-mart for $99.99 total.

 

Study history - History always repeats itself!

 

Where are all these rules? I always thought RCI suggested what to wear?