Automatic tipping

[Katosmama]

NSWP,

 

Waiters on Princess are paid US$1.03 per day, plus tips. Their union contract promises them overtime pay for any hours over 13 per day (that's on a monthly average - not a daily total). So in order to receive any overtime pay, they would have to work more than 13 hours a day for nearly the entire month.

 

The company guarantees them that they will make a minimum amount of money in salary PLUS tips. That amount is a bit less than $1,000 per month. This guarantee is in place to ensure that they will still make some money if the ship goes into drydock, or encounters some other situation where they are still working, but not tipped by passengers.

 

Waiters do not get any days off on cruise ships - unless the doctor certifies them too sick to work. But then they do not receive any tips from the tip pool for the sick days.

 

So 13 hours a day for 30 days is 390 hours a month.

If they make $1,000 total, including auto-tips, that's just over US$2 per hour, total.

 

Would you do it?

And would you still be smiling at the end of the month?

 

Keep in mind that the $1000 they make is basically going into their pocket...they are not paying tax on that money, nor are they paying for rent or food with it. All they have to pay for is toiletries and extras (like alcohol)...I think a lot of people would LOVE to have $1000 at the end of the month and only have to worry about incidentals.

[karatemom2]

Keep in mind that the $1000 they make is basically going into their pocket...they are not paying tax on that money, nor are they paying for rent or food with it. All they have to pay for is toiletries and extras (like alcohol)...I think a lot of people would LOVE to have $1000 at the end of the month and only have to worry about incidentals.

 

Most of the crew we have met on our cruises are working to support families at home so it's not exactly correct to assume the money is just going "into their pocket". For most the hard earned and well deserved dollars are being used to shelter, clothe and feed their families and hopefully provide them with a better life. Because of this they make the sacrifice of spending months away from their loved ones in order to earn a decent living and help all of us have memorable vacations.

[hotrockstar]

Just an observation, but do you all know this was a question I originally posted over a year ago? Look at the date of the OP (me :p).

This thread is kind of like the energizer bunny...

It keeps going and going and going.........

[rbacardi]

How's it feel to be a year older hotrock? Just proves, some threads can keep on going !!

 

 

Just an observation, but do you all know this was a question I originally posted over a year ago? Look at the date of the OP (me :p).

This thread is kind of like the energizer bunny...

It keeps going and going and going.........

[Guillermo]

Just an observation, but do you all know this was a question I originally posted over a year ago? Look at the date of the OP (me :p).

This thread is kind of like the energizer bunny...

It keeps going and going and going.........

 

You're right -- every year, I find at least one new thread on this question of gratuities.

 

Sorry, Aussies and Kiwis, but in North America, it's SOP to tip waiters, hairdressers, taxi-drivers, bartenders, etc, 10-15% of the before-tax total. Perhaps in North America alone, such service people are not paid a living wage, but I rather doubt it. And you can be sure that if you refuse to tip, or if you deduct the "auto-tip," the cruise lines will not say, "Oh, by golly, I suppose we should raise our wages."

 

In France, where restaurant bills almost always include a service charge, the custom is to leave (once upon a time 10F) a euro for the waiter. 15% FOR 3 meals a day, times 7 days, could add up to quite a bit on a land holiday. Who would balk at this? Forget about the price of the cruise, and keep the service in your mind.

 

And for those of you posters who feel obliged to add the cost of airfare to your port of embarkation, and the cost of taxis to the ship in your complaints about the cost of cruising, all I can say is, Be thankful you have the wherewithal to indulge in such expenditures!

[bananavan]

I was on Crown September 7- October 5. I was HORRIFIED to hear that MANY of the ELITE cruisers who joined the ship for the DEEP DISCOUNTED Transatlantic were not utilizing the automatic tipping . The reasons were varied. Most removed them as soon as they embarked. Apparently the service was not up to their normal standards. Many removed them as soon as we missed Iceland. (I gather that we had a large number of meteorological navigators on board with us who knew better than Captain Andy Proctor) Apparently they had wanted to visit Iceland their entire lives and only decided to book this trip when it became cheaper than fostering a child in a third world country. The workers still smiled. They still gave wonderful service. They did not deserve to be short changed by people who end up getting more cruise credit days and consequently free laundry.

Tip for goodness sake and if that amount of money is too much for you, then start staying at your mother in law's house for vacations.

 

 

 

PS Guillermo, Prince Edward County has the best beaches in North America. We lived there for three magnificent years.

[Coral]

Most of the crew we have met on our cruises are working to support families at home so it's not exactly correct to assume the money is just going "into their pocket". For most the hard earned and well deserved dollars are being used to shelter, clothe and feed their families and hopefully provide them with a better life. Because of this they make the sacrifice of spending months away from their loved ones in order to earn a decent living and help all of us have memorable vacations.

 

Ditto!

[Guillermo]

I

PS Guillermo, Prince Edward County has the best beaches in North America. We lived there for three magnificent years.

 

Ven vas you here, Charlie?

We moved here from California, via TO, in 1967.

Punta Gorda's pretty lovely, too. I remember our first trip to Florida, where we spent a month in the middle of the peninsula -- rather dreary -- one day we were on our way to visit friends in Port Charlotte -- got to the bridge between PG and PC and I said, Yes, this is the Florida I'd been imagining.

You're right on, by the way, about tipping. If you can afford to go on a cruise, you can sock away a few extra loonies for the service staff, who in the states and, I believe, in Canada, are not entitled to the nominal minimum wage.

[bananavan]

Guillermo

We lived in Foxboro actually and spent every possible free sunny day at the Outlet. We lived there from 1978 -1981 until we moved to Buffalo.

We returned frequently as my in laws also lived in Belleville.

Prince Edward county is a treasure.

[Guillermo]

Guillermo

We spent every possible free sunny day at the Outlet. We lived there from 1978 -1981 until we moved to Buffalo.

We returned frequently as my in laws also lived in Belleville.

Prince Edward county is a treasure.

 

We spent a lot of time at the Outlet, too, with our kids when they were young. We'd go hiking among the dunes at Sandbanks in the summer, too; and go cross country skiing using snowmobile trails, in the winter.

 

You'd be amazed at the changes the County has undergone since 1981 -- getting all gentrified, with a dozen and a half wineries and nearly 40 vineyards, and an artisan cheese producer -- but if your inlaws are in Belleville, you've probably heard that PEC is no longer the best kept secret in eastern Ontario.

 

BTW ( or OTOH), we're on a Princess thread, so oughtn't to get too far off course: where do you cruise? anything interesting coming up? We're doing a Fort Lauderdale/Panama/return in January.

[Katosmama]

Most of the crew we have met on our cruises are working to support families at home so it's not exactly correct to assume the money is just going "into their pocket". For most the hard earned and well deserved dollars are being used to shelter, clothe and feed their families and hopefully provide them with a better life. Because of this they make the sacrifice of spending months away from their loved ones in order to earn a decent living and help all of us have memorable vacations.

 

 

I think my point still stands. There are not many jobs where waiters have $1000 left over at the end of the month to spend as they see fit. They are not required to spend that money to support themselves, was the point I was making. If they choose to spend it by sending it home to help out their families, great! However, to assert that they are earning slave wages is incorrect - they have more money left over to do what they want with (include send it home) than waiters (or many other occupations) do elsewhere. How they choose to spend that money is irrelevant to the fact that at the end of the month, they have a fairly decent disposable income.

[karatemom2]

I think my point still stands. There are not many jobs where waiters have $1000 left over at the end of the month to spend as they see fit. They are not required to spend that money to support themselves, was the point I was making. If they choose to spend it by sending it home to help out their families, great! However, to assert that they are earning slave wages is incorrect - they have more money left over to do what they want with (include send it home) than waiters (or many other occupations) do elsewhere. How they choose to spend that money is irrelevant to the fact that at the end of the month, they have a fairly decent disposable income.

 

I don't think I ever indicated that the crew earned slave wages in my post. My point was that I believe that your argument is flawed in that it asserts that crew are not spending any money on basic living expenses. The crew is required to live aboard in order to work on the ship, but it is not their home. Most have homes and all the expenses surrounding supporting a home and family just like you and I. They may live aboard the ship in order to work there, but most are still paying for their families (and themselves when they are off contract) to live somewhere. They are also paying for food, clothing and other essentials for their families just like other working people. The money they earn is not all disposable income, it is income that supports all the basic living expenses we all have. And I don't think supporting a family on a salary of $1000 a month probably leaves them with much left over for frills. They work hard for that money, it's earned, needed and deserved, but they are hardly getting rich. I dare say that most people here would be hard pressed to make ends meet on that level of income.

[Canuker]

Post #4 in this thread, written by Coiran, reads:

 

"You are not required to tip extra and you can remove the auto tip if you desire. But if you remove the autotip and then tip the individual he/she is required to put it back in the pool. So - you are only hurting them."

 

Are you sure about this?

If it all gets pooled and there's a share-out, where is the incentive for the individual to give better-than-average service and be correspondingly rewarded?

[Ken076]

Canuker - I believe the more complete explanation is that if tip was removed, the crewmember has to take the cash tip if given and put IT back in the pool (so if a cruiser doesn't tip, the loss is spread amongst the entire pool); if tips are not removed, the worker can keep the extra cash tip if offered, and that's his./her incentive. ken

[Ethel5]

Canuker - I believe the more complete explanation is that if tip was removed, the crewmember has to take the cash tip if given and put IT back in the pool (so if a cruiser doesn't tip, the loss is spread amongst the entire pool); if tips are not removed, the worker can keep the extra cash tip if offered, and that's his./her incentive. ken

 

To go a step further than your correct post....if the tip is removed and the crew member doesn't turn in a tip, he is subject to answering to his boss on why the tip was removed. Stewards are also assessed $1.10 per passenger/per day to give to the "unseen" helpers who bring up the laundry carts etc.

[jwave]

Hi, I know servers in the US only make minimum wage plus the tips. I just wasn't sure about the cruise lines and how their tipping and salary policy worked. Some places pay their waiters very well! I'm new to cruising, so that's why I'm asking. I want to make sure everyone is taken care of fairly.

 

Servers in the US do NOT make minimum and tips. They make the "tipped employee minimum" which is about $2.89 per hour.

[jwave]

forgot the rest. They are paid tipped employee minimum and tips. If they do not make the federal or state minimum with tips the employer must pay the difference.

[bananavan]

For goodness sakes, get with the program and tip.

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. If you are too cheap to tip, stop using the services of people who depend on tips.

Whenever someone says, "It isn't about the money, it is the principle of the thing" I always know that it IS about the money.

Get over it. Either treat those who serve you on a cruise ship appropriately or buy a used camper trailer and enjoy the woods.

Please stop trying to figure out if the money that I choose to tip is enough to pay someone's family a living wage.

For the poster new to cruising, take note of the $10.50 nightly hotel charge on your bill and accept that it is part of the cost of cruising. If Princess tacked that on to the original price, most here would refuse to travel with Princess.

It is late. Let's put this baby to bed.

[NSWP]

The $1000 a month some crew members make, i.e. bar tenders, waiters, stewards etc, is a fortune in the countries crew are sourced from, i.e. Phillipines, Mexico, Indonesia, Thailand, India, Eastern Europe. One cruise I was talking to an ex Indian Police Officer who was working security with Princess, after I presented him with an Australian Police patch badge, we got to talking, he told me he received US$600 a month in wages, not in the tipping pool those guys. That $600 was 3 times the amount he earned as a Police Officer in India and a much easier job, despite being away from home.

 

Compared to the western world, wages and cost of living in their native countries is miniscule thus the reason why these mostly happy people come to work on the cruise ships.

 

What lovely people they are too, particularly the Asian crew members.:D

[Guillermo]

For goodness sakes, get with the program and tip.

For the poster new to cruising, take note of the $10.50 nightly hotel charge on your bill and accept that it is part of the cost of cruising. If Princess tacked that on to the original price, most here would refuse to travel with Princess.

It is late. Let's put this baby to bed.

 

Dead on, Bananavan!'

Year after year, this whine about tipping screams around the boards.. Enjoy the cruise, people, and thank those who serve you just as -- I hope -- you do in land restaurants, hotel rooms, lounges, pubs, barbershops, taxicabs, cruise embarkation points, etc.

I'm outahere!

[jwave]

I agree--

 

If you don't like how it works try to change it, just b***hing about it online won't change it. If you can't change the system...work within it. If you really want the people who work for you to make a decent wage you NEED to tip, UNLESS you can change the system...UNTIL then TIP.

[B+S]

I agree--

 

If you don't like how it works try to change it, just b***hing about it online won't change it. If you can't change the system...work within it. If you really want the people who work for you to make a decent wage you NEED to tip, UNLESS you can change the system...UNTIL then TIP.

 

Well it's been a month since anyone wrote in this thread, so here's to keeping it alive for an entire second year.

 

While I dislike it, I suppose the tip system works, whether that means that we the privileged few in the end exploit the those nationalities poorest in the world in order to buy cruises at the incredibly low prices we do, or whether the poorest and most easily exploited of the world just feel fortunate to have sanitary working conditions, food, shelter, health care, and a far higher standard of living than otherwise attainable in their home countries.

 

Let's not delude ourselves though, the paradox is and always has been true for both parties involved, and it's coincidentally why cruises must always leave US waters - as there's little demand for those hypothetical $6,000.00 seven day cruises under our minimum wage laws that someone mentioned. Just as paradoxically, we are collectively all part of the problem and we're all part of the solution.

 

I'll continue to "vote with my dollars" for cruises and everything else I buy, and retain the sole right to tip as I and I alone see fit, anything else is just a surcharge.

 

Bon Voyage!