Kids in Pinnacle Grill

[wrp96]

[quote name='hammybee']I am not aware of any land based restaurants that prohibit children. There must be a few, somewhere.

Anyone?[/quote]


To answer your question, Victoria & Albert's at Disney World's Grand Floridian Resort does not allow children under the age of 10. [url]http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/dining/diningDetail?id=VictoriaandAlbertsDiningPage&bhcp=1[/url]

[Sprocket]

[quote name='NoNoNanette']My vote is:

WITH A BLIND EYE :rolleyes:[/quote]


And that is [I]exactly[/I] how it was handled when it happened to us:(

[kryos]

[quote name='CowPrincess']Which is the reason some of us object to children in a fine dining setting. DH & I have had too many dinners ruined by someone's little darling being out of control, screaming and crying or running around, and the parents sitting there totally oblivious or uncaring. I will no longer accept a table in a fine dining establishment that seats me by or near children. If the children are well-behaved, and I'm not sitting by them, I miss nothing. If they are NOT well-behaved, they can "contribute" to someone else's evening.
[/QUOTE]
I know exactly what you mean. I hate even going to land restaurants ... and we're not necessarily talking "fine dining" establishments, but rather nice family-type restaurants like Outback or Olive Garden, and being seated near a table full of children. Frequently the younger children will act up, and often the parents will make very little effort to quiet them.

I watched a family of about ten people in the Olive Garden about a month ago. There was a baby sleeping in a portable rocking crib-type thing ... who was quiet for most of the dinner. Then there was the "holy terror" ... a toddler who was throwing crayons and yelling and whatnot. He obviously wanted no part of sitting there and mom was not taking him out of his high chair. When he would scream, the family would make a cursory effort to calm him, but when it didn't work, their attention was quickly diverted elsewhere while the kid continued to scream.

I have a friend who has raised five kids and she tells me that the WORST thing you can do is pay attention when the kids act up. She said that kids, especially the very young, are smart. If they realize that screaming will get them removed from a situation they consider uncomfortable, they will scream even more because they have learned that screaming is what works. She said you try to take them only to places they can handle, and while she wouldn't hesitate to include an Olive Garden in that list, she certainly wouldn't take her kids to a truly elegant place like perhaps Ruth Chris. Then if the kids wanted to scream and refuse to stop while sitting at a table at the Olive Garden or Outback, you just ignore them. Once they realize that screaming is unlikely to get them any relief, they will learn that quietly crying will have a far better chance of being taken out of the dining room and for a walk outside. But she told me that you don't teach children to behave by catering to their every cry. If they are crying, she said, you make sure there is nothing legitimately wrong, and then you try to shush them. If that doesn't work, ignoring them usually does. She said that if her kids misbehaved in restaurants when they were growing up, she also would not get them dessert. She said that, combined with ignoring them if they insisted on "acting out" generally taught them appropriate behavior for restaurants. They may cry for half an hour before quieting down, but that's the price to be paid to teach the kids that crying and acting up is not going to get them anywhere.

Of course, I guess that while mom is teaching the kid, the other diners have to suffer through his tantrum? :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

[quote name='kryos']I know exactly what you mean. I hate even going to land restaurants ... and we're not necessarily talking "fine dining" establishments, but rather nice family-type restaurants like Outback or Olive Garden, and being seated near a table full of children. Frequently the younger children will act up, and often the parents will make very little effort to quiet them.

I watched a family of about ten people in the Olive Garden about a month ago. There was a baby sleeping in a portable rocking crib-type thing ... who was quiet for most of the dinner. Then there was the "holy terror" ... a toddler who was throwing crayons and yelling and whatnot. He obviously wanted no part of sitting there and mom was not taking him out of his high chair. When he would scream, the family would make a cursory effort to calm him, but when it didn't work, their attention was quickly diverted elsewhere while the kid continued to scream.

I have a friend who has raised five kids and she tells me that the WORST thing you can do is pay attention when the kids act up. She said you try to take them only to places they can handle, and she wouldn't hesitate to include an Olive Garden in that list, and then if they want to scream and refuse to stop, you just ignore them. Once they realize that screaming is unlikely to get them any relief, they will learn that quietly crying will have a far better chance of being taken out of the dining room and for a walk outside. But she told me that you don't teach children to behave by catering to their every cry. If they are crying, she said, you make sure there is nothing legitimately wrong, and then you try to shush them. If that doesn't work, ignoring them usually does. Of course, they may cry for half an hour before quieting down, but that's the price to be paid to teach the kids that crying and acting up is not going to get them anywhere.

Of course, I guess that while mom is teaching the kid, the other diners have to suffer through his tantrum? :(

Blue skies ...

--rita[/QUOTE]

ignoring a screaming child is NOT the answer...

what would've happened to me if I'd done that? And mom will tell you it did..

I was spanked and taken out and 'to go' containers ordered.

[kryos]

[quote name='hammybee']I don't know of any land based restuarants that preclude children and I am hard -pressed to think of one that would deny someone, showing up in jeans.[/QUOTE]
Same here, though I am sure there are some restaurants that do have a dress code ... I just don't tend to visit those places.

And, true, I know of no land-based restaurant that would prohibit children, though I do know of some that will charge a "plate charge" for young children sharing from their parents' plates.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

[quote name='frodo63']These "rules" must be guidelines for the staff only. I had my kids at Royal Caribbean's specialty resturant one was 9 at the time. The staff were really tickled at my kids comparing the taste of the food served there to the main dining room. I assure you, they could taste the difference. They also sent their left over food up later for the kids to have as their "midnight" snack.[/QUOTE]
I would have to say you are lucky; RCI/Celebrity normally enforce the 13 year old rule.

Nita

[wrp96]

[quote name='kryos']
And, true, I know of no land-based restaurant that would prohibit children, though I do know of some that will charge a "plate charge" for young children sharing from their parents' plates.
[/quote]

Read my post above. Victoria & Albert's at the Grand Floridian at Disney World does not allow children under the age of 10.

[kryos]

[quote name='wrp96']Read my post above. Victoria & Albert's at the Grand Floridian at Disney World does not allow children under the age of 10.[/QUOTE]
Okay, but that's in a resort that offers lots of options for parents with children. I'm talking about land-based restaurants.

The specialty restaurant on Disney's ships, Palo ... I believe it's called? ... also prohibits children. But again, you can consider a ship that pretty much caters to children as offering lots of other options for parents who want to dine with their children at night.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[NoNoNanette]

There are several wonderful restaurants in New Orleans (Which I consider the ultimate dining destination in the States), who will make it quite difficult to seat a family with toddlers.

Tables suddenly become "reserved", etc.

And for that, they have a loyal customer base. :)

[hammybee]

[quote name='wrp96']To answer your question, Victoria & Albert's at Disney World's Grand Floridian Resort does not allow children under the age of 10. [URL]http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/wdw/dining/diningDetail?id=VictoriaandAlbertsDiningPage&bhcp=1[/URL][/quote]

I am picking up on a theme, here. Disney Cruises and Disney Vacations, probably the most child centric venue of all, imposes some limitations on children.

[kryos]

[quote name='hammybee']I am picking up on a theme, here. Disney Cruises and Disney Vacations, probably the most child centric venue of all, imposes some limitations on children.[/QUOTE]
That's because they offer so much for children that they can "get away" with offering at least one venue where children are not welcome.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[newmexicoNita]

This subject has been debated for as long as I have been on these boards: there seems to be no right answer. My feelings, which really don't matter:

I would like to see an age limit in the specialty dining rooms. I have rarely seen children under about 10 or so in any, but that being said; if there is not a policy then it is up to the parents. Of course as has been said, many parents think they kids are just a little better behaved than they really are: what I think is the the cutest thing when my grandkids do it, might be what everyone else thinks is totally unacceptable. When I hear parents talking about just bring activities to keep the kids busy through dinner I wonder why would you even think of bringing them to an upscale dining room and as for bringing them and then having them eat Chicken fingers? What is that all about?

On the other hand there are many kids who are accustom to eating at top restaurants, enjoy steak, seafood and prime rib. These kids should not bother anyone. Again, too bad, many parents don't know that some kids belong elsewhere and are not even happy being expected to sit for 90 minutes to 2 hours eating.

Nita

[Jim Avery]

[quote name='NoNoNanette']We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)[/QUOTE]
Good Girl!

[babyher]

[quote name='NoNoNanette']We'll be celebrating our 20th Wedding Anniversary while on the Noordam in December.

I was considering the PG, myself.... am starting to have second thoughts, though. :o Room service dinners in the raw can be alot of fun. ;)[/quote]

You're my kind of girl Nan :)

It funny all the talk about dress codes and what people are wearing and how it affects a good time.

Some of the best memories I have onboard a cruise ship didn't involve dress of any kind *LOL*

[JerseyJaguar]

[quote name='NoNoNanette']There are several wonderful restaurants in New Orleans (Which I consider the ultimate dining destination in the States), who will make it quite difficult to seat a family with toddlers.

Tables suddenly become "reserved", etc.

And for that, they have a loyal customer base. :)[/quote]
Ah, another reason I have to get to New Orleans.

There are always parents who think their children are better behaved than other children their age, and these parents are usually the ones who think it's ok to have their kid join them in the adults only pool or go with them to movies over the head of every other child that age, etc. If these parents can't follow the actual rules, they sure aren't going to think twice about bringing their superior child anywhere else that is mostly adults.

[iceman93]

[quote name='kryos']That's because they offer so much for children that they can "get away" with offering at least one venue where children are not welcome.[/quote]

It's also because some people think a Disney experience is only about kids. They couldn't be more wrong, but there are LOTS of people out there who won't consider a Disney cruise or a Disney World vacation because they think the whole experience will be like Chuck E Cheese's. By segregating some areas (on the cruise line they actually do enforce kid-free zones such as a pool and Palo) and publicizing it, they are trying to reach out to that demographic.

HAL is often seen, rightly or wrongly, as a cruise line for old codgers. It's true that HAL does have a large portion of the codger market locked up (just look at the crotchety attitudes of many of the people who've posted to this thread). But if they ever want to appeal to a broader customer base they have to actively shed that image. Imposing kid-free zones would be counterproductive from that standpoint.

Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all. You're going to see more and more kids on HAL ships, like it or not.

Me? I'd prefer to see those old coots go to some other line and leave HAL to the open-minded, well-traveled, upscale crowd that realizes all ages have the right to enjoy the finer things in life.

[hammybee]

[quote name='iceman93']
Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all. [/quote]


I think you have to take Cunard off this list. They have one of the best children's programs at sea and will accommodate infants too.

[JerseyJaguar]

[quote name='iceman93']Perhaps the old grumps on this thread who think children simply can't behave in nice restaurants should instead cruise Windstar or Cunard or some other line that truly does NOT cater to families at all. You're going to see more and more kids on HAL ships, like it or not.[/quote]
So anyone who doesn't want to have a dinner they've paid extra for ruined by unruly children is an "old grump"? You think it's wrong for us to explain our experiences with obnoxious children and not want to add to them but it's ok for you to generalize about us?

And I spoke from experience, I've visited the disney message boards and have yet to read of any of the posters having a child who misbehaves, and I have been to disney many times, and have seen too many out of control children for all those message board folks to be telling the truth (it's much like the fact there are no lounge chair hogs in all of CC). I don't blame the kids for being out of control, I blame their parents for thinking they can handle situations that they can't. Does that mean I want them banned, no. It means I don't take parents saying their kids are the exception at face value.

[RuthC]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]Wait just one cotton-pickin' minute here. Calling people [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[quote name='iceman93']<old codgers> <the codger market> <the crotchety attitudes> <the old grumps> <those old coots> [/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]doesn't sound very[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[quote]open-minded, [/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]to me! :( [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#4169e1]I read some posts that articulated very well why they wanted a respite from children. And they have a right to express those feelings without being called names. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[dakrewser]

[quote name='Softball20']Amazing.

My husband and I celebrated our 20th anniversary at a truly amazing restaurant about two hours outside of Washington, DC. It is an unbelievable place that is well known around here; very romantic, expensive and has food to die for. In the restaurant at the same time was a family, also there to have a special dinner. They had a couple kids with them. It in no way even remotely detracted from my dining experience or my evening with my husband. Frankly, I was more offended that the whole family (including the parents and other adults) were quite inappropriately dressed for the place (eg: jeans).[/quote]
Please tell me that this wasn't the Inn at Little Washington!

[kryos]

[quote name='AerynSun_JohnCrighton']ignoring a screaming child is NOT the answer...

what would've happened to me if I'd done that? And mom will tell you it did..

I was spanked and taken out and 'to go' containers ordered.[/QUOTE]
Oh, same here ... believe me ... same here. If I "acted out" dad would wallop me right there in the restaurant, give me something to really cry about, and then tell me if I didn't shut up, I'd get walloped again. Believe me, I learned real quick what was acceptable behavior and what was not in public.

But, of course, that was in the day when parents were free to discipline their kids. Today, I'm afraid if a parent swatted a kid on the behind (as my father did), someone in the restaurant would probably call the cops and yell "child abuse." It's tough for parents today, so I can sometimes sympathize.

But I still agree with you. The screaming child has to be removed. It's not fair to other diners to let them remain, and least not in any restaurant above a fast food one like MacDonald's.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

[quote name='kryos'] The screaming child has to be removed. It's not fair to other diners to let them remain, and least not in any restaurant above a fast food one like MacDonald's.

Blue skies ...

--rita[/QUOTE]

uggg! A few weeks ago I was in mcdonald's... and there was a screaming child.. would NOT shut-up..

I had a headache by the time they left... the mom did NOTHING just ignored the child and got her stuff...

[tchix]

You want a parent who will admit their kid is not 100% an angel- sure, I have a 2 year old and boy can he have a melt down- he is a kid after all. That said, we still bring him with us to restaurants (real, nice restaurants- in addition to your standard chains like the Olive Garden). We take him to theater shows. And we sometimes take him in first class with us on the airplane, and he even flew in business class to Thailand with us when he was a baby. Usually he is well behaved- in fact every time we fly with him we get compliments on how quiet he was, people had no idea we had a child sitting right behind them, etc... But does he act up ever? Of course. And we do the very best we can to calm him down or, if absolutely necessary, to remove him from the situation. Sometimes it takes a few minutes to redirect/calm him, but we are certainly trying our damnedest to do it. Sometimes we miss out on things because we need to be parents (like when we leave before the last half of a show if he is tired and on the verge of a meltdown). But that isour choice to make- not yours to make for us.

So we try to keep him and his brother (6 months) from bothering you. For example, we had someone babysit our two year old when we went to the PG (but brought the 6 month old, who was sleeping or playing with a spoon the entire time). But honestly? We like our kids and we go on vacation to be with them, not get rid of them. I am not going to banish my kids to a "kids only" world because some people don't want kids in their restaurants, or their shows, or on their cruise. i don't give a d*mn whether or not YOU think a 2 year old should be at a broadway show, or if YOU think that 6 month old should be at the pinnacle grill. There are a whole bunch of things that I would prefer if I were making the rules, but I'm not, and neither are you! If you really want those things, find a cruiseline or vacation tht agrees with your values and make the move.

I know that sounds rude, but I just hate it that this forum seems to draw out all the kid-haters, and those who say "Oh I don't hate kids, I just dont want them around me," who then go on to give "advice" like "leave your kids with grandma" or "dont bring a child to the PG, put them in club HAL" to parents who haven't asked for that advice at all. It's misleading and for new cruisers it makes HAL (and it's clientele) seem incredibly un-kid friendly, which (for anyone who has sailed on HAL), is not actually the case.

I am going to do what I think is best for my family, and for us that means exposing kids to all kinds of situations when they are young and teaching them how to behave there. In my opinion, the reason you get kids who are all over hte plae and bouncing off the walls at age 6 and 7 is because they have always been catered to with kids menus and kids spaces and have never been expected to participate in something bigger than that.

And let me tell you, I hate undisciplined kids as much as the rest of you. I hate when they sit behind me and kick my seat, and when they scream the entire dinner. But there are billions of people in this big wide world, with some adults as bad or worse than even the worst kids, but we all live in this world and have to learn to deal with it. If you can't stand the presence of children in certain venues where they are allowed, choose different venues and make your views known with your dollars, but don't try to bully parents into making choices for their children the way you want them to.

[Softball20]

Tchix:

Well said!!!!!!

[pipedreams62]

This is the last place for "Adults only" The children[IMG]http://pipedreams62.eaph2.com/share/afunstuff/IMG7304.JPG[/IMG]n have moved into Pinnacle grill,lounges and bars.