U.S. government plans to fingerprint foreign cruisers at terminals

[AllieInMD]

-Fundamentally I am against taking fingerprints. I dislike being treated like a criminal (that is when you usually have your fingerprints taken).-

 

Another assumption and mistake. In the Unites States, fingerprints are taken for host of reasons - security clearances, certain regulated industries, school systems, etc etc. None of them are criminals - in fact - the reason the fingerprints are taken is to make sure no criminals get jobs in positions of trust or security/power. I have to pass a background check to get my job, and a drug screen (always subject to) - I've never been arrested nor do I do drugs (ok, the 70's don't count!) I don't get all offended - and I live here.

 

-It is getting more and more difficult to put up with the way 'foreigners' are treated by the US - they are treating us all as criminals.-

 

Might have something to do with the 3000 dead on that day in 2001 - and the USS Cole - and the 93 WTC bombing - and the bombings of the embassy housing and the....... well - you get the point.

 

-I always thought the maxim was "innocent until proved guilty" not "guilty until proved innocent". I dread entering the US for a holiday - it is very offputting to be treated so badly. -

 

And I guarantee you that if you are arrested in this country, you will be afforded every protection under the US Constitution that you don't pay the military or the gov't to uphold and to whom you have no allegiance. Heck, my tax dollars will even pay for the lawyer to defend you. Yep - we're horrible. I think you are female (don't remember) - keep in mind in much of the middle east you are PROPERTY - you have no rights - you can't even leave the house without permission and an escort - or else you are 'guilty' of vice and can be beat on the street by the morality police. All things considered - US policies are lenient and kind.

 

-And AllieInMD - it will do the US no good if every foreigner 'who did not like it' decided not to go the US. If the US lost all the foreign tourists who go there every year, you would soon notice it. You are already in a recession, just imagine how bad it would be if no foreigners visited on holiday.-

 

Somehow I don't think tourism is a huge industry here in the big scheme of things - I don't have figures - but it's a pretty good guess. It's all pretty simple - if you are a GUEST in another country, you have to abide by the rules/customs/demands of the host country. I think the way women are treated in a lot of the world is insane - but if I go there - I have to follow their rules, their laws, their customs - and even complaining about it could get me thrown in jail for inciting civil unrest. Try that complaining act in the middle east or china or cuba - see where it gets ya. Here, even foreigners and illegals can complain to their hearts content.

 

Besides - if we tighten up our immigration like we should have - any amount lost by foreign tourists will be more than made up just by the savings when we toss out the 12 million illegals we know about, much less the rest of them - and gee, we might even catch a few of those terrorists who's visas have lapsed and have disappeared in the melting pot.

 

-Having said that, there's no happy medium in all this. We did a transatlantic back to Southampton last week and we left the ship and walked straight back into the UK, with our cases, and there was no customs or immigration presence. For all anyone knew our suitcases could have been full of drugs or guns, or anything:mad:-

 

Doesn't that just give you a warm fuzzy feeling of security? The USA way may not be perfect, but I'll take it over that lack of any customs/immigration/border protection.

[AllieInMD]

Well thank you for the dissertation on a government of a country that you don't even live in.

 

-the US decided to shut the door after the horse had bolted.-

 

agreed - we were busy being 'the land of the free' and 'give us your poor, your huddled masses...' etc Not to mention being 'the world's policeman' hindsight is 20/20 - things should have been much tighter.

 

-But in order to stay PC they decided that every single foreigner was a threat (potential or otherwise).-

 

Yep, way too PC - the only known international terrorists were young muslim men - however - that wouldn't be nice to profile *puke* - so everyone has to be an equal suspect. we have equal protection under the law - we have equal suspicion

 

-They could have really caused problems and singled out Muslims for this treatment, but no, they played nice and decided that everyone outside of the US is a potentially bad person and everyone will therefore be tarred with the same brush as those who they stupidly let into their country etc etc etc.-

 

How idiotic - yes, everyone is potentially a bad person - and will be scrutinized equally. yep - we were asleep at the wheel - but we aren't any more.

 

-I do have a right to travel freely as I am not a criminal...it is a privilege but only cos I can afford it (albeit only just).-

 

wrong, coming to the United States is not a right, it's a privilege - one we can extend or deny - as we see fit. The USA is not an extension of the UK - we covered that a couple of centuries ago. And the UK is no different. We denied Amy Winehouse entry, you denied Snoop Dog entry. Those 2 have nothing to do with terrorism (tho both look a terror at times) As for the rest of the world - there are many places you can not 'travel freely' - you need a specific visa - and in some you'll be shadowed constantly.

 

-Thanks to the US letting in those idiots, the world is more unsafe than it has ever been.

 

Yeah, just think - had we had tighter border controls, they might not have gotten in - and they just mighta been blowin up stuff in your country as the next best thing - oops - didn't that already happen? So, in this post you've said our tight immigration policies are wrong, and our lax ones were wrong. How convenient to your USA bashing :)

 

-The immigration rules being brought in by the US authorities do nothing to make anyone safer...they just build the paranoia.-

 

Really? Are you in the President's of the USA's cabinet? Unless you are - or a member of the US intelligence services - you are talking without any knowledge. There have been some thwarted attempts made public, but many haven't.

 

-These immigration rules are based on nothing but paranoia, they stoke it up and they perpetuate it.-

 

Ah, to be such a naive person - terrorists have made it clear - we are a target - THE target - and that they will not stop. Protecting our own is paranoia? The UK is close behind in that target list - and Islam is the second largest religion in the UK these days and growing. Keep looking through your rose colored glasses - but I suggest you start learning arabic.

 

-I find it sad that while people are still waiting for their homes to be rebuilt after Katrina, while people still have to suffer the indignities of racism, where people are losing their homes left, right and center-

 

LOLOLOL - spoken like a true citizen of socialism! Funny how the other people hit by that hurricaine didn't fare anywhere as bad as New Orleans. Ever seen the article about the Katrina 'victim' crying about racism and bad treatment - while living in her gov't provided housing - nice housing - watchin her 60" flat screen? Oh - and she's been a welfare queen for decades. Them shooting at rescue choppers? Looting? People are losing their houses because they made bad financial decisions. It's called 'personal responsibility'. Nobody is bailing peeps out if they get their car repossessed - same thing. We expect our citizens to face the consequences of their own actions. When you see a hurricaine coming or a levee about to burst - you get your family and stuff and get out if you don't see the gov't coming - gee, that's what they did in Mississippi! And when you make a bad bad decision, buy something you know you can't afford, you take your lumps when it catches up to you. We don't look to the gov't to solve all our problems.

 

-....the government of the USA still pour millions of dollars into plainly idiotic and unworkable immigration rules that have rubbed everyone...airlines, cruise lines...IATA...ALPA...up the wrong way. -

 

It ain't your millions - why do you care what we spend our taxes on? Taking a quick glance at poverty and unemployment figures of the UK - hmm - that Glass Houses thing comes to mind.

 

-And don't even think about the Middle East and the millions that is costing in lives & money.-

 

You guys are there too - including your beloved Prince Harry was there - and you got Wills spending military funds dropping in on his girlfriend and to bachelor parties. Glass houses...

 

-The US government needs to get its own house in order before they start ordering tourists about and treating them like criminals.-

 

Me thinks you should get the UK gov't in order before you volunteer how to fix ours :) And we don't need to do anything - we can set any rules for tourists we like - and if it makes you feel like a criminal to follow our rules - that's on you.

 

-If the country can do without the tourists money...fine..we'll take it elsewhere. -

 

Please do.

 

-The sooner Bushbaby is out of office, the better.-

 

Hmm, and when you gonna give up that Royal Family thing? At least we elect the people who lead our country - and we don't pay for nor bow to a figurehead that pretends to/believes she 'leads' a country.

 

-Then things might improve for everyone. Those who lost everything in Katrina might actually get homes instead of having to live in trailers that are slowly killing them. -

 

And just how many cruises have you given up to pay for a home for those poor katrina 'victims' you are so worried about? Yeah, some mfg's sent defective trailers, and God knows I wouldn't defend FEMA - it's a gov't agency - that says it all. But before you bash our gov't agencies, you might wanna look at some of your own - ya know - like that debacle of a health care system you all have. Glass houses...

 

Americans are extremely generous people - we rise to the occasion when something like 9/11 or Katrina happens - we even do it for the rest of the world - when a disaster happens - who's the first there? The US military, followed by US relief.

 

-And the freedom to travel will include the US.-

 

No matter who gets in the white house, the American people will never forget 9/11 and that lax immigration laws and enforcement allowed it to happen - no matter who gets in - we won't be asleep at the wheel. Don't count on the old days coming back in your lifetime.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Why are some Americans so obnoxious - perhaps we have another candidate for anger management classes - you sound like you hate everything and everyone who does not come from the USA as well as the majority of your own nation.

 

As to the US not needing tourism, think again. What would happen to poor old Mickey in Florida if the tourists suddenly decided to stop visiting him. The US is already in a very deep recession and is starting to drag the UK down with it. However, the cruise companies are already basing more of their ships in Europe and that will continue to increase.

 

This world is a worse place now than ever and mostly because of dear Mr Bush and dear Mr Blair and the world's ever increasing need for oil. Make no mistake that is why the US and the UK are spending absolutely billions of dollars and pounds in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are not there trying to get a better deal for the poor women of the region. If that was part of its agenda, it would be fighting for half the women in Africa who live in appalling circumstances and no-one lifts a finger.

 

No-one is saying that people should walk into any country - every country should have its border control. As I said I was amazed when there was no border control presence when we arrived back into Southampton after clearing Immigration in mid-Atlantic. But everyone deserves respect and not everybody deserves to be treated like criminals. We choose to come to your country because we like it and its people but there will come a time when people will say 'enough is enough'. No-one has to come to the USA (as you so eloquently point out). America is doing just what the terrorists wanted it to do. It is amplifying the terror aspect which is what a terrorist is all about. They want to frighten people until they are totally freaked out.

 

Also you are under a completely false impression if you think that our Royal Family lead our country. They play no part in the government of the country. We elect our members of parliament and it is they who govern the country. However, the majority of us are fiercely protective of our Monarchy and proud of its place in the history of our country and you are treading on dangerous grounds when you start insulting them to a citizen of the UK. Its not clever of you to insult Prince Harry for going to Afghanistan with his regiment - that is what he has trained to do. He and Prince William are not just two playboy princes - they have both been through full Army officer training at Sandhurst and excelled at it. It would have been easy for our Queen to say that Prince Harry should not go to a war zone but she did not. He only returned to UK because the press leaked the fact that he was in Afghanistan with his regiment and thus put other soldiers lives at further risk and he was then recalled back to the UK.

 

And once again we come to the fallacy that the USA has saved everybody in the known world in every known theatre of war - rubbish - I think you have been watching too much Saving Private Ryan. We are allies and we fight alongside each other, as we should. We are a tiny country compared to the USA and even you must admit that we do just as much in the world arena pro rata in terms of aide and relief work as the US does. Also pro rata we have lost just as many brave young men fighting in a war which should never have been started in the first place.

 

From the manner in which you express yourself on these boards, I don't think you are a very good representative of the USA.

 

Oh, feel free to respond with some more ranting and raving.

[vjmatty]

Wow... no better proof than this thread that "it is easier to defend one's principles than to live up to them". You can't defend freedom while denying it at the same time.

 

To those who say "what do you have to hide?"... maybe I have a pistol permit and don't want anyone to know. Maybe I have a youthful offender record because of a stupid drunken incident in college. Maybe I have been divorced once or twice and paying child support, or maybe it is just nobody's business what my fingerprints are.

 

I will never forget in March 2003 when they first started all of the TSA regulations... I was flying out of our little local airport to visit DH who was doing a reserve AT in Norfolk VA. He asked me to bring him extra underwear... so here I was with two TSA officers and the NY State Police inspecting my bags with a dozen pairs of men's underwear inside. Did I have something to hide? Well sort of, but it wasn't criminal..

 

This comes up with searches and seizures as well... many say they wouldn't mind being searched because they have "nothing to hide". Well, I may not be guilty of criminal conduct, but I might like watching TV in the nude, or doing crossword puzzles on the toilet. If so I would rather not share these behaviors with the local police. Think about how you left your house this morning... maybe the sink is full of dishes or the living room has a few beer bottles sitting around from having your friends over last night. Not a crime, but still personal and private.

 

If 9/11 has stripped us of our basic freedoms then we are giving those who attack us more power than they actually have.

[Aplmac]

Here in Bermuda we are fortunate to be able to clear U.S. customs & immigration

at our airport before entering the US. Big time saver I'm sure.

For at least a year or more now we have to provide finger scans and smile for the camera

at the officer's desk when he reviews our passport. - No big deal.

That's my attitude too - no big deal

We now live in a post-9/11 world, so get with the new program.

 

The sooner we can get everyone fingerprinted with a view to ending this stupid religious war

so we can lower the price of Oil

so we can cruise cheaper...take my goddam fingerprints - see if I care!

You've had decades of warning that it would come to this..

but maybe you weren't paying attention?

[jp2001]

Thank you, jp.

 

Credit where credit is due: The first post that you quoted was by dot73, not me. (I can't get the multi-quote to work properly either! :D )

 

I simply copied one message (highlight text + Ctrl + C), then pressed the Quote button of the second message I want to quote and paste the first message above (Ctrl + V) and after I copy and paste the quote codes at the beggining and end of the message but I forgot to change the name of the poster... sorry.

 

I was away for work, I'm going to read the rest of this thread before it disapear :D

 

(I'm glad the poll worked quite well)

[Dorset Cruiser]

I simply copied one message (highlight text + Ctrl + C), then pressed the Quote button of the second message I want to quote and paste the first message above (Ctrl + V) and after I copy and paste the quote codes at the beggining and end of the message but I forgot to change the name of the poster... sorry.

 

I was away for work, I'm going to read the rest of this thread before it disapear :D

 

(I'm glad the poll worked quite well)

 

 

Do you think the moderator will pull this thread because we are being naughty:D :D

[AllieInMD]

I find the America bashing posts obnoxious - if defending my country and our laws are obnoxious in your mind - who cares - you're just a tourist - you aren't a citizen here. I hate terrorists plain and simple - it doesn't matter where they come from. I hate what the illegals are doing to this country plain and simple. And I despise whiners who take no responsibility for their own predicaments and expect the gov't to bail them out.

 

If you think that the loss of Disneyworld, or any one industry, would bring the USA to it's knees - you're living in fantasyland.

 

You're right about people saying enough is enough - only it's us saying it about lax immigration - are the American people demonstrating and voting and angry about the immigration policies we put on tourists like you? NO - we really don't care - it's not a big deal - and certainly low on list of things to be concerned about.

 

That tired line of 'you're giving into terrorists by being afraid' is exactly that - a tired old line. Protecting our own and our nation is not being afraid - it's smart. And if you think their 'goal' is to frighten us - you are sadly underestimating them. Their goal is to wipe us from the face of the earth.

 

I said the Royal Family/Queen who believes she in any way leads the country. I know the Sovereign has absolutely no power - that was the whole point. She amassed her staggering wealth on the blood of the citizens of that country (and others) throughout it's history - she has no power at all in modern times. Imagine if the UK sold all that stuff and returned the money to the treasury of the people. I didn't insult Prince Harry for going, I was pointing out the oxymoron of your statements - while your own beloved Prince was there. And yes - the press leaked it - loved that - more Brits bashing the US for leaking it - uh - someone in New Zealand leaked it - then the Germans picked it up - then the US. But when it all came out - who got blamed? The USA. I think you have been reading too much of your gossip rags. Maybe you all still haven't gotten over us kicking your butts centuries ago.

 

Do I think the USA has saved everyone - nope. But I do know that every single time a big disaster happens - there we are - whether that country is friend or foe.

 

I don't care if you think I'm a good representative of the USA. I think you are the perfect representative of the UK that I've seen in this thread - you think you are so privileged that you don't need to follow the rules and laws of a country you visit and find it hard to conceptualize that the US is not one of your 'territories' which you can treat as your own. Oh and you bash our President, our gov't, and tell us how it should be fixed. Glass houses.

 

Funny - I've been invited many many times to visit in the middle east with a friend who does a lot business there - I don't want the hassle of the visas required, the extremely tight immigration procedures, I don't approve of how their gov't works, etc - guess what? I DON'T go - I don't whine about it - I just choose to go elsewhere. Ya might wanna try that.

 

As long as you rant and rave about the evils of the USA, yep - I'll rant right back :)

 

 

 

Why are some Americans so obnoxious - perhaps we have another candidate for anger management classes - you sound like you hate everything and everyone who does not come from the USA as well as the majority of your own nation.

 

As to the US not needing tourism, think again. What would happen to poor old Mickey in Florida if the tourists suddenly decided to stop visiting him. The US is already in a very deep recession and is starting to drag the UK down with it. However, the cruise companies are already basing more of their ships in Europe and that will continue to increase.

 

This world is a worse place now than ever and mostly because of dear Mr Bush and dear Mr Blair and the world's ever increasing need for oil. Make no mistake that is why the US and the UK are spending absolutely billions of dollars and pounds in Iraq and Afghanistan. They are not there trying to get a better deal for the poor women of the region. If that was part of its agenda, it would be fighting for half the women in Africa who live in appalling circumstances and no-one lifts a finger.

 

No-one is saying that people should walk into any country - every country should have its border control. As I said I was amazed when there was no border control presence when we arrived back into Southampton after clearing Immigration in mid-Atlantic. But everyone deserves respect and not everybody deserves to be treated like criminals. We choose to come to your country because we like it and its people but there will come a time when people will say 'enough is enough'. No-one has to come to the USA (as you so eloquently point out). America is doing just what the terrorists wanted it to do. It is amplifying the terror aspect which is what a terrorist is all about. They want to frighten people until they are totally freaked out.

 

Also you are under a completely false impression if you think that our Royal Family lead our country. They play no part in the government of the country. We elect our members of parliament and it is they who govern the country. However, the majority of us are fiercely protective of our Monarchy and proud of its place in the history of our country and you are treading on dangerous grounds when you start insulting them to a citizen of the UK. Its not clever of you to insult Prince Harry for going to Afghanistan with his regiment - that is what he has trained to do. He and Prince William are not just two playboy princes - they have both been through full Army officer training at Sandhurst and excelled at it. It would have been easy for our Queen to say that Prince Harry should not go to a war zone but she did not. He only returned to UK because the press leaked the fact that he was in Afghanistan with his regiment and thus put other soldiers lives at further risk and he was then recalled back to the UK.

 

And once again we come to the fallacy that the USA has saved everybody in the known world in every known theatre of war - rubbish - I think you have been watching too much Saving Private Ryan. We are allies and we fight alongside each other, as we should. We are a tiny country compared to the USA and even you must admit that we do just as much in the world arena pro rata in terms of aide and relief work as the US does. Also pro rata we have lost just as many brave young men fighting in a war which should never have been started in the first place.

 

From the manner in which you express yourself on these boards, I don't think you are a very good representative of the USA.

 

Oh, feel free to respond with some more ranting and raving.

[AllieInMD]

-You can't defend freedom while denying it at the same time.-

 

Sure you can. Your argument has zero logic. Under yours, nobody should ever be searched, have their car stopped, be held for interrogation for murder, arrested.

 

-To those who say "what do you have to hide?"... maybe I have a pistol permit and don't want anyone to know. Maybe I have a youthful offender record because of a stupid drunken incident in college. Maybe I have been divorced once or twice and paying child support, or maybe it is just nobody's business what my fingerprints are.-

 

All of those except for youthful offender are already open to public purview.

 

-I will never forget in March 2003 when they first started all of the TSA regulations... I was flying out of our little local airport to visit DH who was doing a reserve AT in Norfolk VA. He asked me to bring him extra underwear... so here I was with two TSA officers and the NY State Police inspecting my bags with a dozen pairs of men's underwear inside. Did I have something to hide? Well sort of, but it wasn't criminal..-

 

-So because you were embarrassed by carrying your husband's underwear, bags shouldn't be searched? I'd rather be embarrassed about a TSA agent lookin at my undies than not looking at the suitcase next to mine that might have a bomb. If you find the searches so intrusive and upsetting - simple - don't fly.-

 

-This comes up with searches and seizures as well... many say they wouldn't mind being searched because they have "nothing to hide". Well, I may not be guilty of criminal conduct, but I might like watching TV in the nude, or doing crossword puzzles on the toilet. If so I would rather not share these behaviors with the local police. Think about how you left your house this morning... maybe the sink is full of dishes or the living room has a few beer bottles sitting around from having your friends over last night. Not a crime, but still personal and private.-

 

And not one person has said that the police should be able to violate your home is your castle doctrine without proper procedure. It's different on a plane - with hundreds of other people - or in an airports with possibly thousands.

 

-If 9/11 has stripped us of our basic freedoms then we are giving those who attack us more power than they actually have.-

 

Rhetoric of the liberal. It worked for the first couple of decades of attacks on Americans - it doesn't anymore. These are the same people who would be screaming bloody murder about gov't incompetence if we actually had the same lax procedures we did and they want back and another 9/11 happened.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Could I just ask you two questions?

 

1. Are you male or female?

2. Do you have children?

 

That's all. Not going to demean myself by responding to your phobic rantings any more. You need to see a psychiatrist sweetie. I really must try and persuade my dear friend who is frantically trying to be accepted into your Land of the Free to change her mind and come on back home to dear old Blighty!!

 

Bye Bye

[Globaliser]

I think what Group A wants is for themselves to be absolutely free to do what they want, and everyone else will be free to do only what Group A wants.

Sounds like it to me, too!

Ever time I read "Homeland Security" I can only visualize Brownshirts & swastikas.

I think that this is a little unfair.

 

However, one must genuinely ask, rhetorically, how closely the behaviour of the "Department for Homeland Security" mimics, or will mimic, the behaviour of the "Committee for State Security" (or, at least, the best-known of them). :D

[Globaliser]

yes, land of the free - for its citizens.

It's very funny that you can't see the irony of this. Any country that espouses such a narrow view foments resentment, anger and ultimately violence against itself.

Rhetoric of the liberal.

Or the irony of this. "Liberal" = "for freedom".

 

Now I must go and wipe the coffee off my computer screen. :D

[vjmatty]

-You can't defend freedom while denying it at the same time.-

 

Sure you can. Your argument has zero logic. Under yours, nobody should ever be searched, have their car stopped, be held for interrogation for murder, arrested.

 

-To those who say "what do you have to hide?"... maybe I have a pistol permit and don't want anyone to know. Maybe I have a youthful offender record because of a stupid drunken incident in college. Maybe I have been divorced once or twice and paying child support, or maybe it is just nobody's business what my fingerprints are.-

 

All of those except for youthful offender are already open to public purview.

 

-I will never forget in March 2003 when they first started all of the TSA regulations... I was flying out of our little local airport to visit DH who was doing a reserve AT in Norfolk VA. He asked me to bring him extra underwear... so here I was with two TSA officers and the NY State Police inspecting my bags with a dozen pairs of men's underwear inside. Did I have something to hide? Well sort of, but it wasn't criminal..-

 

-So because you were embarrassed by carrying your husband's underwear, bags shouldn't be searched? I'd rather be embarrassed about a TSA agent lookin at my undies than not looking at the suitcase next to mine that might have a bomb. If you find the searches so intrusive and upsetting - simple - don't fly.-

 

-This comes up with searches and seizures as well... many say they wouldn't mind being searched because they have "nothing to hide". Well, I may not be guilty of criminal conduct, but I might like watching TV in the nude, or doing crossword puzzles on the toilet. If so I would rather not share these behaviors with the local police. Think about how you left your house this morning... maybe the sink is full of dishes or the living room has a few beer bottles sitting around from having your friends over last night. Not a crime, but still personal and private.-

 

And not one person has said that the police should be able to violate your home is your castle doctrine without proper procedure. It's different on a plane - with hundreds of other people - or in an airports with possibly thousands.

 

-If 9/11 has stripped us of our basic freedoms then we are giving those who attack us more power than they actually have.-

 

Rhetoric of the liberal. It worked for the first couple of decades of attacks on Americans - it doesn't anymore. These are the same people who would be screaming bloody murder about gov't incompetence if we actually had the same lax procedures we did and they want back and another 9/11 happened.

 

Wow... totally missed my point. I'm not saying that baggage shouldn't be searched. I was merely giving some examples of why an interest in privacy does not equal something to hide. Why is it so hard for some to transcend thinking? It reminds me of the time I was called "unpatriotic" because I commented that aesthetically I don't care for the style of the American flag, and said it was "too busy" for my taste.

 

Personally I think the longer that the US keeps shooting itself in the financial foot WRT the travel industry, the more the right wing will start splitting, as national security and capitalism become conflicting interests.

 

I also think that years from now we will look on this era with the same level of embarassment as we do when talking about McCarthy.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Ginny

 

To bring a ray of sanity to this thread, did you enjoy QE2 and QM2. We sailed into Southampton on 26th April and saw QE2 at her berth. First time we had seen her in the flesh (so to speak). She looked tiny compared to the Sea Princess and the new RCCL ship berthed next to her. Always wanted to go on QE2 but never got the chance - I think it is too late now as she goes out of service soon and we are all booked up holidaywise for the fairly distant future. Perhaps we will get to look over her when she is a hotel:D We are booked on Ruby in January ex Fort Lauderdale so will have to grit our teeth and get through US Immigration again:p

 

Chris

[Globaliser]

I also think that years from now we will look on this era with the same level of embarassment as we do when talking about McCarthy.

If I may say so, that's a very astute observation!

[vjmatty]

Ginny

 

To bring a ray of sanity to this thread, did you enjoy QE2 and QM2. We sailed into Southampton on 26th April and saw QE2 at her berth. First time we had seen her in the flesh (so to speak). She looked tiny compared to the Sea Princess and the new RCCL ship berthed next to her. Always wanted to go on QE2 but never got the chance - I think it is too late now as she goes out of service soon and we are all booked up holidaywise for the fairly distant future. Perhaps we will get to look over her when she is a hotel:D We are booked on Ruby in January ex Fort Lauderdale so will have to grit our teeth and get through US Immigration again:p

 

Chris

 

It was absolutely incredible... especially the rendez-vous of all three ships on the 22nd.

 

There are still some voyages left on QE2 if you don't mind sub-steerage ;) We're in M5 on the 5 day 10-22 out of Soton, after we take QM2 on the 10-16 tandem final crossing.

[eetonaee]

I was just fingerprinted last week so I could get a NEXUS pass and avoid the two hour lineups at the border between Washington state and British Columbia.

 

BTW - Timothy McVeigh - terrorist who bombed the Federal building in Oklahoma City - clean cut American boy - fingerprinting wouldn't have prevented that tragedy.

[dforeigner]

I was just fingerprinted last week so I could get a NEXUS pass and avoid the two hour lineups at the border between Washington state and British Columbia.

 

BTW - Timothy McVeigh - terrorist who bombed the Federal building in Oklahoma City - clean cut American boy - fingerprinting wouldn't have prevented that tragedy.

 

You are correct. Finger prints would not have prevented that tragedy. But with finger prints on file, it is much easier to find out who did what and where we may locate an individual.

 

I will agree, these new security measures will be a PITA for those who are traveling. Probably the tightest security measures that one can encounter are in Israel.

 

One thing that people may be overlooking is that one of the main responsibilities of the Federal Government (at least in the US) is the security of its people. Times have change and if we want to travel, we must adapt to those changes. I guess the alternative is staying home and watch the Travel Channel.

[Globaliser]

I guess the alternative is staying home and watch the Travel Channel.

No, the alternative is going somewhere other than the US!

 

And it seems like there's at least one poster on this thread who'd be very glad if we all went somewhere else. :)

[Dorset Cruiser]

It was absolutely incredible... especially the rendez-vous of all three ships on the 22nd.

 

There are still some voyages left on QE2 if you don't mind sub-steerage ;) We're in M5 on the 5 day 10-22 out of Soton, after we take QM2 on the 10-16 tandem final crossing.

 

 

If only ...... Just cannot warrant booking another cruise. Have a real biggie coming up in January on Ruby - not the length of the cruise or the itinerary but pricewise as we are treating our two children, their partners and our two grandchildren to a cruise to celebrate our Ruby Wedding. Hope you have a good time and give the old girl a good send-off.

[sailingkiwi]

And yes - the press leaked it - loved that - more Brits bashing the US for leaking it - uh - someone in New Zealand leaked it - then the Germans picked it up - then the US.

 

OK - to be honest I don't care about the rest of your post, (I have already said that it is a country's right to make rules about who is granted entry to their borders and how you get this right), and I am guessing you probably don't care about the correction I am about to make

 

BUT

 

I believe in any argument people should be factually accurate

 

PLUS

 

as a patriot (interesting how you normally only hear that word in the context of the USA, but anyway) of my lovely country New Zealand

 

IT WAS AN AUSTRALIAN MAGAZINE! - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336310,00.html

 

Of course this was then picked up by Drudge.:)

[Dorset Cruiser]

No, the alternative is going somewhere other than the US!

 

And it seems like there's at least one poster on this thread who'd be very glad if we all went somewhere else. :)

 

 

Luckily there is a whole world out there just waiting for us cruisers who are fed up with the way we are treated by Homeland Security. January 2009 will be our last cruise for a good many years which involves US Immigration although I did so want to see Alaska - but that's American too:(

[vjmatty]

No, the alternative is going somewhere other than the US!

 

And it seems like there's at least one poster on this thread who'd be very glad if we all went somewhere else. :)

 

 

I am American and would understand your going elsewhere, particularly since you have been political allies in our most recent war efforts, yet still get treated with the same scrutiny and suspicion. :(

 

Not only are we becoming very unfriendly to tourists and visitors, I can't tell you how many of my fellow citizens insist on traveling in an American bubble of culture, language and name-brand chains when outside the US. I go out of my way to find hotels and restaurants that reflect the local charm, rather than hole up in a Marriott or eat and drink at Margaritaville. :rolleyes:

[AllieInMD]

Sure you can ask, and I'll even answer - I have nothing to hide :)

 

Female, 46, and have 2 children - 1 son 14, 1 daughter 19, one fiancee in one of those 3-letter intelligence agencies that keeps me - and you - safe.

 

Ahh, not going to demean yourself - translation: you run from a 'fight' when you know you're whupped. It's ok - you brits have done that with Americans before.

 

Sorry 'sweetie' - I'm passed psych evals required for prior employment - I'm completely sane and got the papers to prove it :)

 

Ah yes - who was it that said that one measure of a country is how many are trying to get into it, and how many are trying to get out of it. Ain't many leaving the good ole USA and millions trying to get in - says it all right there. I did notice the poll results - would seem you are in the minority - imagine that.

 

 

 

 

Could I just ask you two questions?

 

1. Are you male or female?

2. Do you have children?

 

That's all. Not going to demean myself by responding to your phobic rantings any more. You need to see a psychiatrist sweetie. I really must try and persuade my dear friend who is frantically trying to be accepted into your Land of the Free to change her mind and come on back home to dear old Blighty!!

 

Bye Bye

[Goldryder]

I find the America bashing posts obnoxious - if defending my country and our laws are obnoxious in your mind - who cares - you're just a tourist - you aren't a citizen here. I hate terrorists plain and simple - it doesn't matter where they come from. I hate what the illegals are doing to this country plain and simple. And I despise whiners who take no responsibility for their own predicaments and expect the gov't to bail them out.

 

If you think that the loss of Disneyworld, or any one industry, would bring the USA to it's knees - you're living in fantasyland.

 

You're right about people saying enough is enough - only it's us saying it about lax immigration - are the American people demonstrating and voting and angry about the immigration policies we put on tourists like you? NO - we really don't care - it's not a big deal - and certainly low on list of things to be concerned about.

 

That tired line of 'you're giving into terrorists by being afraid' is exactly that - a tired old line. Protecting our own and our nation is not being afraid - it's smart. And if you think their 'goal' is to frighten us - you are sadly underestimating them. Their goal is to wipe us from the face of the earth.

 

I said the Royal Family/Queen who believes she in any way leads the country. I know the Sovereign has absolutely no power - that was the whole point. She amassed her staggering wealth on the blood of the citizens of that country (and others) throughout it's history - she has no power at all in modern times. Imagine if the UK sold all that stuff and returned the money to the treasury of the people. I didn't insult Prince Harry for going, I was pointing out the oxymoron of your statements - while your own beloved Prince was there. And yes - the press leaked it - loved that - more Brits bashing the US for leaking it - uh - someone in New Zealand leaked it - then the Germans picked it up - then the US. But when it all came out - who got blamed? The USA. I think you have been reading too much of your gossip rags. Maybe you all still haven't gotten over us kicking your butts centuries ago.

 

Do I think the USA has saved everyone - nope. But I do know that every single time a big disaster happens - there we are - whether that country is friend or foe.

 

I don't care if you think I'm a good representative of the USA. I think you are the perfect representative of the UK that I've seen in this thread - you think you are so privileged that you don't need to follow the rules and laws of a country you visit and find it hard to conceptualize that the US is not one of your 'territories' which you can treat as your own. Oh and you bash our President, our gov't, and tell us how it should be fixed. Glass houses.

 

Funny - I've been invited many many times to visit in the middle east with a friend who does a lot business there - I don't want the hassle of the visas required, the extremely tight immigration procedures, I don't approve of how their gov't works, etc - guess what? I DON'T go - I don't whine about it - I just choose to go elsewhere. Ya might wanna try that.

 

As long as you rant and rave about the evils of the USA, yep - I'll rant right back :)

 

Firstly the US is not the superpower it used to be in the good old days of the Cold War...those days are long gone, and rightly so.

 

Secondly, the UK has had more terrorist attacks in the last 40 years than the USA had in one day. I was less than 100 yards away from an IRA bomb explosion in London in the 1970's. The USA has had it good and you got COMPLACENT about your security...just as you did a mere 6 months after 9/11.

 

At the end of the day matey, the USA showed how impotent it really is on 9/11 and you can rant and rave as much as you like, you can call our sovereign whatever you like...but fundamentally one thing will never change....the USA was complacent & impotent before 9/11 and it is just as bad now...only this time it is cutting off the hand that feeds, namely tourists and legitimate businesses and their money.

 

The USA is a shadow of what it was, at one time other countries used to look up to the US and everything it stood for. Nowadays it is the joker of the pack with an inanely grinning president, destitute and desperate people who are waiting for years to get their homes back after a natural disaster, as I said before...get your own house in order before you start ordering anyone around.

 

It is shameful what the US authorities are thinking of, and they have the gaul to complain about China's human rights record when the US holds people without trial in Cuba just cos they are muslims.

 

Yeah...you rant all you want to. Keep on wearing the rose coloured glasses.