So just how much cheaper is it, actually, to fly Southwest?

[Globaliser]

As so many CC members anxiously await the next release of Southwest fares as if they were manna from heaven, and it happens to be reporting season at the moment, I thought I'd indulge my curiousity.

 

I looked at the measure of financial performance known as “yield” from some of the recent financial results announcements. This is basically the average price paid by each passenger to fly one mile, and is sometimes called Revenue per Passenger Mile. It’s not the only important measure, because there’s not a lot of point having passengers that have paid a humungous price per mile if 90% of the seats on your aircraft are empty.

 

And, obviously, if you take an average price, there are bound to be individual passengers who have done well because they happen to have got a very low fare.

 

But yield is a reasonably good indicator of what passengers are, on average, actually paying the airline for their tickets.

 

One important thing to remember is that many airlines have business class and first class, for which passengers obviously pay much higher fares per travelled mile. So this will tend to push up their reported number. The yield from the main cabin will be lower. But Southwest does not have this - all their numbers come from the main cabin.

 

Where I’ve been able to, I’ve taken the figures for mainline operations, because regional operations tend to return much higher figures per passenger mile, and Southwest has no regional operations as such.

 

For the first quarter of 2008, in ascending order of cents per passenger mile:

Northwest: 12.71

United: 13.13

Continental: 13.45

American: 13.48

Southwest: 13.72

Delta: 14.54

 

And for comparison, in the first quarter of 2007, in ascending order of cents per passenger mile:

United: 11.74

Continental: 12.55

Northwest: 12.59

American: 12.82

Southwest: 13.11

Delta: 13.71

 

So I wonder: just how much cheaper is it, actually, to fly Southwest? Or is the perception of low fares simply the result of successful marketing gimmicks, as some have alleged?

[greatdanemom]

I'm just a simple little passenger so all I can add is what I see at my level of the world. Southwest has some great deals on occasion. If you are the gambling type and can afford to be really flexible you can grab them and save some money. But we are finding more and more that we can do much better on other airlines by watching the trends and prices. In our household the love affair with Southwest has ended. We've come to discover that we kind of enjoy having assigned seat!!

[hajekfam]

Southwest has already cut out one checked bag - they were the first to do so - but since they originally allowed three checked bags per person, they now allow two.

I find Southwest employees friendly and entertaining. The other thing that I like is that if a Ding fare comes up and it is lower than the fare that I booked, I can cancel my air and use the credit to get the Ding fare. (Even the cheap fares are cancellable for credit) Then I can just apply the remainder to another flight - and since they service both Texas & Florida, we know that we will use it to visit our grandkids.

Also, they fly out of Midway in Chicago which is much more convenient and smaller with less hassle than Ohare, and they also use Houby instead of Bush in Houston - much closer to my daughter's house.

[banditcat]

Your analysis is correct. Southwest is no longer cheaper than other airlines if one books the regular fare but......Southwest has probably lower the fares of the legacy carriers in the markets they service.

 

I still like Southwest because of the issue of service. Southwest has never promised more than it can deliver so expectations are never elevated. The service is usually good and Southwest will usually get you where you are booked to travel. I can't say that for some of the other carriers.

 

One negative for Southwest is that the way they book fares through their own system their tickets are not transferable with other carriers. This is usually not a problem but an issue for some folks who do not fly a great deal and may not know this.

 

Hannah

[wrp96]

For my best friend for our upcoming cruise, Southwest was $100 MORE expensive than 4 other airlines AND more expensive than cruise air. And she has a connection plus another stop on the way there.

[NCTribeFan]

I'd planned to drive to Port Canaveral in May. I hadn't found any decent fares (checking regularly).

 

After glancing at this thread this morning, I decided to check SW. I found RDU to MCO for just over $300 total (2 pp). I went ahead and booked it. Early flight on Friday which will get me into Orlando early enough to get to Cocoa Beach in time to see the rocket (not shuttle) that launches at noon!

 

I no longer am very willing to drive 8 or 9 hours straight, so was going to break up the drive both down and back. Eliminating 2 nights in a hotel and the gas and the aggravation is worth it.

 

Got 1-way car rental for $31 each way, which was more than $20 cheaper than a shuttle. Yes, I'll have to pay to park at the airport, but all things considered, the few dollars more is worth not spending two days in the car.

 

I've never flown Southwest before. We'll see how it goes.

[6rugrats]

What a great thread! I read so many threads here, about people waiting with bated breath for Southwest to release fares, and I have no idea why this is so important! Our family flies a great deal and I am the one who does the airfare research. We try to stick with one airline to build up mileage and status, but I'm always willing to book a less expensive fare.

 

We purchase many tickets a year on routes SJC-SEA, SEA-IAD, SEA-LAX, etc., and only once, in the last three years, have I found Southwest to be cheaper then any other airline, at least on the routes we fly.

 

Most of their flights, for us anyway, have at least one, if not two or more stops or connections. No assigned seating. Lots of family groups traveling together who seem to have no idea about how air travel works. More expensive fares. This just does not work for me. And people who pay for their "business fare" I will never understand!

 

I'll check the prices, but as stated, rarely purchase. Think their popularity has to do with good marketing, not the actual product.

[greatam]

So I wonder: just how much cheaper is it, actually, to fly Southwest? Or is the perception of low fares simply the result of successful marketing gimmicks, as some have alleged?

 

Thank you so much for posting HARD FACTS.

 

I truly believe that SW is riding on laurels of "lowest fare" from years gone by and has been at least as high or higher for about 4 years. I used to fly frequently between PHX/LAX. I have two choices-SW and US Air. Delta and United also fly nonstop but on regional jets. I live just about half way between PHX and LAX, so it is a considerable drive to the airport any way I go and now I just drive to LAX.

 

I never flew SW as it was CONSISTENTLY $10-30 MORE than America West/US Air plus I absolutely DETEST "Greyhound of the skies" and standing in line for two hours to get a decent seat. I buy a lot of airline tickets for employees for flights all over the USA. I very rarely find SW to be cheaper on any route EXCEPT Kansas City to NYC. But SW flies into Islip (Long Island). Our office is in the South Bronx. All savings are lost trying to get from the airport to our office. SW is on my "no fly" list.

[NCTribeFan]

Oh, and we're nonstop, too.

 

I may hate them. I may love them. Seating isn't an issue. DD and I don't care in the least whether we sit together.

 

Cheapest USAir was about $450 for the two of us, with a stop in Charlotte going and DC on return.

 

Delta is over $500 and doesn't get us in to Cape Canaveral in time to see the launch.

 

AirTran is $484 and we'd have to be at the airport at 5 am.

 

This is why I thought I'd drive! So, like I said, I may hate Southwest, but this is looking pretty good right now!

[grandmato4]

So I wonder: just how much cheaper is it, actually, to fly Southwest? Or is the perception of low fares simply the result of successful marketing gimmicks, as some have alleged?

 

Each of us will have a different answer to your question depending on the airports we must fly out of and our destinations. For the two airports that I can reasonably fly from Southwest does consistantly have some of the best fares to Florida destinations and is one of only two airlines that has any nonstop flights to Fort Lauderdale. Those nonstop fares are consistantly lower or the same as all the other major airlines flights with connections. Now with that said, if one gets lucky enough to be looking for fares at just the right moment, and doesn't mind a connecting flight with 60 minutes or less between connections :eek: and you're not picky about the time of day you fly you can sometimes grab another major airline ticket less than Southwest. But for our location and requirements Southwest certainly does live up to its "marketing gimmick" that they are a low fare carrier.

[twoputt.plusone]

I can only tell you my experience. Two weeks ago my DH and I flew out of Buffalo non-stop to Ft. Lauderdale return. We weren't planning another trip to Florida at all but SW had a seat sale that worked for us. Our flight was $284 US all inclusive for 2. I had a $73 credit from a

previous flight that I applied to that cost. Toronto Int'l is much closer for us but was also hundreds of $$$ more. That's why a US airport works much better for us.

 

2P.P1

[joelmarj]

I have the grand luxury of living squarely in the midst of three airports all within a 30 minute drive. Only one of them has SW, two have Jetblue and then I have all the other major carriers.

 

Given that, depending on the destination, SW is rarely the best buy for me. As a matter of fact, I just bought 4 tickets to MCO for a cruise for the end of July on Delta because i was able to get better fares. The other major problem (besides the cattle call - and yes they are still cattle call with they're new numbering system), is that most flight are not direct. Unless I am going to FLA, anywhere else I want to go requires stopovers and I avoid them at all costs.

 

The dings for our area are no great shakes. Never for anywhere cheap unless it's Cleveland or Kansas. Vacation destinations just don't come on the cheap from here. I have a good problem in that there are tons of options for me so I can easily opt out of SW.

[Karshrimp]

On our DFW to SEA flight in September, Southwest was only $5.50 cheaper than American (which are non-stop flights). If I used a "Ding" code that was good til last Monday, it brought it down to a little over $50 difference in Southwest's favor. However, if I had gone with SW, I can't pick my seats, and a flight that takes 4 hours on American would take 7 hours on SW because of the layovers. Sometimes it isn't just price that's an issue. ;)

[greatam]

On our DFW to SEA flight in September, Southwest was only $5.50 cheaper than American (which are non-stop flights). If I used a "Ding" code that was good til last Monday, it brought it down to a little over $50 difference in Southwest's favor. However, if I had gone with SW, I can't pick my seats, and a flight that takes 4 hours on American would take 7 hours on SW because of the layovers. Sometimes it isn't just price that's an issue. ;)

 

You have pinpointed a few of the deficiencies of SW. Can't pick seats; have to use DING to get a decent price generally, even with the "new" system, you still have to be on the ball to get a decent seat. And the real biggie-if you fly enough, Rapid Rewards does you NO good unless you are only looking for a domestic US flight. No Europe, no Asia, no South America, not even Hawaii. And no upgrades to first class-heck, no first class.

 

I am spoiled-I fly way too much to even think about flying coach 95% of the time (and no, I don't pay for first class very often). But if I wasn't so spoiled, I sure would use my miles for upgrades to first/business class on long flights. To me, nothing worse than a 10 hour flight to Europe or South America overnight jammed into a coach seat. No upgrades available with SW anywhere.

 

So why would you spend the same amount or even slightly less money to get miles that have very little value???? Even I, spoiled diva that I am, can sit in coach from Kansas City to Phoenix. But I will take those AA miles, even with the stop at DFW, over any SW miles I may get, even at double Rewards and a cheaper price. I know those AA miles are a whole lot more valuable. They get me to Asia/South America frequently in business class.

[Travel Angel]

Oh, and we're nonstop, too.

 

I may hate them. I may love them. Seating isn't an issue. DD and I don't care in the least whether we sit together.

 

Cheapest USAir was about $450 for the two of us, with a stop in Charlotte going and DC on return.

 

Delta is over $500 and doesn't get us in to Cape Canaveral in time to see the launch.

 

AirTran is $484 and we'd have to be at the airport at 5 am.

 

This is why I thought I'd drive! So, like I said, I may hate Southwest, but this is looking pretty good right now!

 

SW is a good airline and their "new" boarding pass concept (check it out at their website) really works well and NO you do not have to stand in line for hours to get a good seat as another poster said.

 

I honestly believe you will find that if the price meets your budget, the service and no frills that SW has never boasted of offering will fulfill your travel needs and will make you add them to your airline of choice(s) !

 

As for rewards they offer.... I have yet to see an airline that has a decent program that benefits me w/out jumping thru hoops !

[greatam]

SW is a good airline and their "new" boarding pass concept (check it out at their website) really works well and NO you do not have to stand in line for hours to get a good seat as another poster said.

 

PLEASE tell that to my employee who stood at the gate IN LINE with a low number B boarding pass Tuesday-MCI. He is so po'd at how long he had to stand in line that he is not even using his return ticket to Kansas City. They boarded all the families between the A and B groups, no matter what boarding group those families had. There were not a lot of desirable seats left that weren't next to groups of kids or middle seats when he boarded. He is waiting an extra day until tomorrow night to go back to Missouri in one of our semi's.

 

 

As for rewards they offer.... I have yet to see an airline that has a decent program that benefits me w/out jumping thru hoops !

 

Obviously, you haven't studied the system enough to get an award ticket without jumping through a lot of hoops. Some are better than others, I agree. But I deal with AA exclusively. I have very little trouble using my AA miles on a variety of airlines most anytime I want. And I sure wouldn't use my AA miles for a domestic ticket (average ticket price about $400). 25,000 miles is worth in airline speak about $500.00. Miles are MUCH more valuable for upgrades or international flights where the value approaches $1000's, which are not available on SW.

[julieanne]

I agree with the majority. I have flown my son from Burbank to El Paso quite a few times and never on Southwest. US Airways has always been cheaper. We managed to get a deal into Hobby last November on SW but, more often than not, they are always more $$

[Travel Angel]

It takes a savy passenger to get an "A" boarding pass... and they are now numnbered with their new gate system. I saw passengers on recent flights with "B" boarding passes that had no problem finding a seat together and this new system they have implemented has actually sped up their boarding pass.

 

As for AA points.... I detest AA as they have lost luggage on numerous flightsI have flown with them, so they are not even a consideration when flying.

 

My advice to those who fly is to find the flight schedule that works for you then pricing......

 

As for you with your frequent flyer theory... works great for you since you travel so much both domestic and international, but for the average traveller, the points can be difficult to use and take alot of time to gather before they expire.

 

I am not going to get in a war with you over this as you just seem to be dead set against SW and that is not the case with many others within this post that seem to be pleased with what SW offers to their passengers.

 

To each his own :D

[KLLund]

From Portland Or .. we fly frequently to Sacramento for business and because family is there. Southwest is ALWAYS the cheapest way to get there and it is obviously non-stop. We rent cars from Alamo, usually the cheapest but certainly at Sacramento the easiest to deal with. That gives us Rapid Rewards credit. We both have SWA Visa cards.. that gives us Rapid Rewards credits. We end up with several RR tickets each year which we then use to get to farther flung domestic locations.

 

 

But more importantly .. I love not having an assigned seat!! When I get on the plane, I can look around for a seat NOT next to a baby or a group of small children. If we are flying with a stop to a more distant destination, we can move right up to the front of the plane before they board the next passengers.

 

We ALWAYS get on a computer 24 hours in advance and "print" boarding passes. If we are at home I literally print them. If I am away I pseudo print them and then punch the information in at a computer in the airport to re-print them It is always the exact same boarding pass and same number. We haven't had other than a A ticket in years.

 

They are almost always on time or within 15 minutes of on time.. unless weather is a factor. They have NEVER lost any luggage.

 

Even when we are flying to Europe, SWA helps because we save a RR ticket to fly to RI and then take the train to Boston to take advantage of the cheaper air fare to Europe from Logan.

 

No SWA is NOT always the cheapest fare .. except on the route we use about once ever 6wks to 2 months .. but I truly like the way they do business

[pms4104]

They boarded all the families between the A and B groups, no matter what boarding group those families had. There were not a lot of desirable seats left that weren't next to groups of kids or middle seats when he boarded.

Interesting ... I just looked at Southwest's boarding policies on their site, and it indicates that an adult traveling with a child under 4 years old would board between Group A and B. I suppose the gate agents have some latitude to board entire families in that group, contrary to their published policy. Hardly fair to remaining passengers.

 

We don't fly SW because Midway is less convenient and more costly for us than O'Hare ... and I detest Festival Seating. Further, I've explored their prices and flight times and have found no advantage in our flying with them.

[fbgd]

Globaliser, thanks for starting this interesting thread!

 

And the real biggie-if you fly enough, Rapid Rewards does you NO good unless you are only looking for a domestic US flight. No Europe, no Asia, no South America, not even Hawaii. And no upgrades to first class-heck, no first class.

 

I am spoiled-I fly way too much to even think about flying coach 95% of the time (and no, I don't pay for first class very often). But if I wasn't so spoiled, I sure would use my miles for upgrades to first/business class on long flights. To me, nothing worse than a 10 hour flight to Europe or South America overnight jammed into a coach seat. No upgrades available with SW anywhere.

 

So why would you spend the same amount or even slightly less money to get miles that have very little value???? Even I, spoiled diva that I am, can sit in coach from Kansas City to Phoenix. But I will take those AA miles, even with the stop at DFW, over any SW miles I may get, even at double Rewards and a cheaper price. I know those AA miles are a whole lot more valuable. They get me to Asia/South America frequently in business class.

 

I'm in this boat too. The last couple of years my I've flown enough to maintain top tier in oneworld and Star Alliance FFPs and should do so again this year. Elite tier benefits make a world of difference if flying coach; upgrades to Economy Plus, FC check-in, lounge access, priority security and boarding etc.

 

My MIL & FIL used to fly Southwest quite a bit as my brother in law lives in the Bay Area. They've given up on them due to the disappearance of the $99 each way fares across country (to be expected really) and can fly Delta for less and earn miles /elite status. It seems the belief that Southwest is always the cheapest is a bit of a myth nowadays and with their fuel hedges coming to an end.

 

I've never flown Southwest but whenever I've passed their gates at PHL, OAK or SFO it seems to be a right circus! I'd rather invest a little more cash and know that even when I'm flying on the cheap it is a comfortable way of getting there with little hassle.

[NCTribeFan]

OK, clueless me, the casual, occasional air traveler wants to know what "DING" means?

 

Like I said, I really don't care where I'm seated. Of course I'd prefer to not be in front of some kid who wants to kick the seat back for the entire flight.

 

But the tradeoff of the lower cost plus having a nonstop flight, cheap flights at the times I wanted, plus eliminating the 9 hour drive each way was just too good to pass up.

[Travel Angel]

go to SW website.... sign up for ding that will load onto your desktop and advise of specials... it may even let you know of a lower fare for your flights that you can cancel and rebook and use the savings for future flights at a later date (up to 1 year from initial travel date).

[Travel Angel]

What is ® ?

DING! brings you even deeper discounts directly to your desktop. Choose up to 10 airports of your choice and get live updates from your cities. Download DING! and let Southwest Airlines do the work so you can save time and money!

 

 

You may also want to sign up for "Click and Save" Specials also.

[wrp96]

I finally had to remove Ding from my computer after not ever getting any worthwhile fare offers (ooh I can get a deal to Alburqurque or I can get a fare to Dallas that is matched by American or Houston matched by Continental) and Ding completely slowed down my computer. Any time it popped up I had issues.

 

I do look at Southwest for fares but if everything else is the same I will choose another airline, especially after my last flight with them. Despite being online 24 hours in advance, having an A boarding pass, and being the first one in line (and yes, I know I can at least skip the standing in line part npw), by the time I boarded the plane, there wasn't much choice of seats - most of the aisle and window seats were gone. The flight was a continuation from another city (like many Southwest flights). So when it stopped, everyone left on the plane got up and took all the aisle and window seats. By the time the first few A passengers had boarded, all the aisles and windows were gone.