Any tricks on using frequent flyer miles?

[greatam]

And I loathe the MD-80, so I would be happy to change to one of the other aircraft.

 

 

Why????

 

Generally a far superior seating experience than a 757 or even the new 738's. No middle seat to contend with on one side

 

AA has a lot of 757's that don't have power ports AT ALL. And my favorite carryon WILL NOT fit in the overheads in a 757.

 

Just curious why you "loathe" the MadDogs? Unless you have to sit all the way in the back where it is pretty noisy, I find them one of AA's better planes for domestic flights.

[nho9504]

I'm not so much worried about LAX-ORD not being an itinerary, just the havoc that the change might wreak. And I loathe the MD-80, so I would be happy to change to one of the other aircraft.

 

Thank you so much for that suggestion on routing through YVR or Mexico. I really am not fond of layovers, so adding one may not work, but it's certainly a great idea. Is QF Qantas? I'm assuming you don't mean to try flying in that direction, do you?:o ;)

 

I agree with Greatam. We actually prefer MD80 more than 737 and 757, as long as we do not need to sit at the way back where it is too noisy. My husband likes the 2-seater side on MD80.

 

I am NOT talking about layovers - I am talking about Stopovers - have a couple days stopover in a place that you can visit on the way. We ALWAYS use all the allowable stopovers and openjaw on every single award we claimed.

 

QF is Qantas, and is an OneWorld member. I used QF site to find the availability of our AA 90K award on this routing: Post cruise, BCN/MAD/.ZRH on IB, stopover for a week to enjoy Switzerland. ZRH/JFK/MIA on AA going home. These segments were flown in May. The remaining of the tickets, MIA/YYZ on AA, stopover for a few days to visit families, then YYZ/LHR/BCN on BA to finish the trip. These segments will be flown in Sept. Once I found all the availabilities, I called AAdvantage to book, took less than 20 minutes to have the whole itinerary done.

 

We changed our plan on our Westbound transatlantic cruise, so I went on QF site to look up award availability again. Found what I wanted, called AAdvantage to change the dates on the remaining segments of the tickets. The Agent was impressed, every flight I gave her she found availability. She then commented, "I am impressed - everything is available. You obviously did your homework!" To that I replied, "I tried to make you guys work easier and thank you so much for your help in making the changes." Everyone is happy. :p To me, it is just so much easier to book an award if one is armed with the flight information, knowing 90% of the time, the availability one sees on QF or BA site, would match with what the AAgent sees on AA's side. It beats to tell the AAgent, "Oh, my travel dates can be such and such, from xxx to yyy, and if this does not work, then aaa to bbb..." Yes, sometimes one can have an extremely helpful agent who would search up and down to find the workable flights. More often, agent would try a couple of possible routes and if there are no seats, s/he would say, Sorry, there is no availability... It is up to you, to find creative routings so you can claim the desirable awards.

 

Flying QF to Australia from North America is the ONLY way to use AA miles to get to Australia and New Zealand. Otherwise, you would have to go thru Asia using CX, and 2 awards together (Asia 2 and Asia/South Pacific), versus only 1 award (South Pacific).

 

We flew QF economy several years ago between LAX/AKL and AKL/PPT/LAX. Have not had a chance to fly QF again, given QF B and F awards are near impossible to be had, using AA miles. Though my friend easily found his family 3 business seats using AS miles. So any "orphan" miles we fly these days, we dump them to our AS accounts - still a looong way to go for the 110K miles per ticket needed. (10K less than AA wants!)

 

OTOH, Air NZ has a very reputable Business Premier cabin that offers FlatBed seats licensed from Virgin Atlantic. The seat is wonderful, especially if you can get the nose section of 747 on the LAX/AKL flight. The seat back actually folds over to form a bed, and you can remain in lying down position or any reclining position during landing and take off.

[critterchick]

Why????

 

Generally a far superior seating experience than a 757 or even the new 738's. No middle seat to contend with on one side

 

AA has a lot of 757's that don't have power ports AT ALL. And my favorite carryon WILL NOT fit in the overheads in a 757.

 

Just curious why you "loathe" the MadDogs? Unless you have to sit all the way in the back where it is pretty noisy, I find them one of AA's better planes for domestic flights.

 

I've only flown them in the front of the plane (on miles, natch:) ) and I found the seating to be pretty cramped. And they had no power ports or even video. I expect that's one of the planes that will be leaving the fleet.

 

I am NOT talking about layovers - I am talking about Stopovers - have a couple days stopover in a place that you can visit on the way. We ALWAYS use all the allowable stopovers and openjaw on every single award we claimed.

 

 

Alas, DH has only a limited allotment of vacation days, and we prefer not to use them all in one trip per year. Besides, the dogs are already messed up when we're gone for 2+ weeks, so much more than that and I'm afraid they'd be pyscho!:eek:

 

Double alas, the BA itineraries don't work well, at least today. Adding Vancouver or Mexico adds another 5 hours going and coming back one has to fly FCO to Gatwick, then transfer to Heathrow. One has 8 hours to do it, but that makes the trip 20 hours just to Vancouver, never mind continuing on to LA.

 

But you've given me a great tool to work with, and I really appreciate it. Thank you again.

[slidergirl]

I guess I've been lucky with using my DL FF miles. I've used them for trips to Hawaii, San Juan, Germany (twice), and Italy. As many others have said, you have to be prepared and willing to persevere. Here are my tricks.

1. Research your routes. I have always used the ITA software website. They are the ones who actually make the search engine that is used by many airlines and online travel agencies. Basically, you are a "beta" tester for them. You can find very esoteric routing choices because it has no bias/preferences for any one airline. I look at the choices for the total trip given to me, each way, then I also see what happens when I piece them together (ex - SLC-FCO and SLC-IAH and IAH-CDG and CDG-FCO).

2. Call the Skymiles line. Get with an agent and try to get your routes. Sometime, you get an agent who doesn't want to try. Hang up and call again. Sooner or later, you'll get a good agent who is willing to dive in with you.

3. If you can afford the extra days, be general in where you arrive at and depart from in Europe. You can always hop on a train. Can't get a seat to Rome? Try Florence, Pisa, Nice, Milan. I've done this twice and it definitely opens up the chances of getting a FF seat.

4. Don't fret the connections. It's easier to get seats if you are willing to take multiple connections.

5. Delta now has their Skymiles partners installed in the FF reservation system. So, give it a try.

I have no status with Delta. I just gather lots of miles with my Skymiles AMEX card. So, I'm not getting any special treatment when it comes to getting those FF seats. I've never had to pay the "SkyChoice" price - I've always bagged the "SkySaver" prices. I've found seats for just me and for me and my ex. And, I've done these anywhere from 3 weeks to 6 months in advance.

[nho9504]

A very good post indeed, Slidergirl!

[slidergirl]

A very good post indeed, Slidergirl!

 

Thanks for the positive comment.

I've always enjoyed coming up with my own travel arrangements. If there was any money in it, I'd love to be a travel agent. I routinely help friends with travel plans and I used to be the "travel agent" for our group ski trips.

 

Being flexible in which airports you use also gives you the opportunity to see someplace you weren't planning on. A trip to Germany 3 years ago is an example. I ended up flying SLC-Cleveland-Montreal-Prague in order to get to Germany. I spent the weekend in Prague - it turned out to be one of the best places I've visited. I took the train from Prague to get to Dresden., spent a day in Dresden admiring the wonderful architecture, then trained to Munich, my actual "destination". Last year, I wanted to get to Florence. I flew Rome, trained to Florence, and left via Florence. Doing "open jaw" ( or on websites, multicity) routing is possible with FF points, so don't think you have to use the same airport in your round trip.

[cjmayes51]

Not sure if this works at all airlines, but you can give this a try. I'm using this based on my experiences with USAir and currently working in the airline industry for a seat manufacture, a number of friends who have tried this approach. At one time in my previous job I have almost 800,000 FFM, and it was hard to use them. We love to cruise and 11 months out we had trouble getting flights from Greensboro to Ft Lauderdale or Miami using these. I changed jobs a few years ago and a number of my cohorts told me that they always just go to our local airport and work with the counter agents. Delta and USAir always got them on the planes and times they wanted usually 4-5 weeks before they wanted to go on their trips. I have done this twice where nothing was available on their web site but a 7 mile drive to the airport, 10 minutes with an agent and I had exactly what I wanted. Not sure if this will work on every Airline, especially in todays climate, but it couldn't hurt!

[Jade13]

Can't use the web for partner award flights. Just too many combinations of partner and OneWorld. I find it much easier to just put the flights together, give them a call and ask for the specific flights.

 

I have to do this too. Apparently Continental lets you book their partners on the web, but I called anyway.

[fbgd]

I changed jobs a few years ago and a number of my cohorts told me that they always just go to our local airport and work with the counter agents. Delta and USAir always got them on the planes and times they wanted usually 4-5 weeks before they wanted to go on their trips. I have done this twice where nothing was available on their web site but a 7 mile drive to the airport, 10 minutes with an agent and I had exactly what I wanted. Not sure if this will work on every Airline, especially in todays climate, but it couldn't hurt!

 

Bizarre. I can't see why going to the airport would make any difference. Agents there would have access to the same award availability you would if you went online or called over the phone. They'd need to call revenue management to be able to open up seats, maybe if you were US Chairmans Preferred they might do that (I've had BA do me the odd favour as a top tier frequent flyer with them) and make a call but otherwise I can't see a difference.

 

My experience with going to the airport isn't that positive! I had to get $24k worth of tickets written up and went all prepared and was told to come back the next day! I wanted to give them that money and they wouldn't accept it! :rolleyes:

[nho9504]

Not sure if this works at all airlines, but you can give this a try. I'm using this based on my experiences with USAir and currently working in the airline industry for a seat manufacture, a number of friends who have tried this approach. At one time in my previous job I have almost 800,000 FFM, and it was hard to use them. We love to cruise and 11 months out we had trouble getting flights from Greensboro to Ft Lauderdale or Miami using these. I changed jobs a few years ago and a number of my cohorts told me that they always just go to our local airport and work with the counter agents. Delta and USAir always got them on the planes and times they wanted usually 4-5 weeks before they wanted to go on their trips. I have done this twice where nothing was available on their web site but a 7 mile drive to the airport, 10 minutes with an agent and I had exactly what I wanted. Not sure if this will work on every Airline, especially in todays climate, but it couldn't hurt!

 

Dont think such approach would work for AA or UA or CO the 3 that I am most familiar with.

 

Award seat inventory is controlled by Yield Management - no agent can over-ride such without calling Yield Managerment to request inventory - be they on the phone, at the airline lounge or at the airport counter. The Yield Management would make exception only when the customer is the top tier elite of that airline's program.

 

Besides, I dont know an airport like MIA or FLL, you could be 10 minutes at the counter and get your award itinerary booked. No way. I spent 20 minutes at the counter, just to ticket a reservation using the transportation voucher, with the reservation already in place and duly noted for using voucher. No way an agent at our airport counters would have time to search award seat for the customer. May be small airports do have advantage in this regard! Though I am still quite skeptical an award seat can be found by airport agent but not by phone agent.

[slidergirl]

Going to the airport and trying to work with an agent there is just like trying to work with a phone agent. It all depends on who you get. You also have the additional deals of time of day and how many people are in line at the airport. It's a roll of the dice on what kind of agent you get. That's actually why I like to book over the phone - you can hang up and dial again. The chances are very good you will get a different agent.

On my trip last fall, I had an accident that landed me in the hospital in Siena, Italy. I was on an FF ticket, but I needed to get flights changed to get home early. My ex helped me get things changed. He did the calling of the Delta agents. He got one who spent 2 hours with him on the phone, making sure I got flights I could use to get home. She was doing a lot of calling on her own part, getting seats freed up for me. When you get a good agent, you'll know!

[FlyerTalker]

If going to the airport was "the answer".....TRUST ME, that info would be through the FF community like wildfire. In fact, it probably has a greater likelihood of failure than the phone.

 

First, you have to stand in line to get to an agent. (At least at home/office you can put it on speakerphone and multi-task while waiting.) Then, you get an agent who may likely shunt you aside for passengers who are actually flying that day. When I've needed to take a physical voucher and get it ticketed, I'm often asked to wait until current-day pax are handled. And I'm top-tier. When you do get an agent with time, this is something that is out of their usual routine....while some can dive right in, they aren't trained, nor experienced, in FF booking. Especially for complex international trips. You will likely get the most perfunctory of searches.

 

Maybe GSO has some blocks of "down time" at counters, where nothing else is happening. They might be doing it then, almost for something to do. I can't say it couldn't possibly happen. But try walking up to a counter at ATL and asking a DL agent to book you a FF ticket and you'll get pointed to a bank of telephones.

[nho9504]

Going to the airport and trying to work with an agent there is just like trying to work with a phone agent. It all depends on who you get. You also have the additional deals of time of day and how many people are in line at the airport. It's a roll of the dice on what kind of agent you get. That's actually why I like to book over the phone - you can hang up and dial again. The chances are very good you will get a different agent.

On my trip last fall, I had an accident that landed me in the hospital in Siena, Italy. I was on an FF ticket, but I needed to get flights changed to get home early. My ex helped me get things changed. He did the calling of the Delta agents. He got one who spent 2 hours with him on the phone, making sure I got flights I could use to get home. She was doing a lot of calling on her own part, getting seats freed up for me. When you get a good agent, you'll know!

 

Couldn't agree with you more! Whether it is booking FF ticket or pay ticket, a good agent vs an ordinary agent vs an agent with attitude - the contrary is more than Day and Night!

[nho9504]

If going to the airport was "the answer".....TRUST ME, that info would be through the FF community like wildfire. In fact, it probably has a greater likelihood of failure than the phone.

 

First, you have to stand in line to get to an agent. (At least at home/office you can put it on speakerphone and multi-task while waiting.) Then, you get an agent who may likely shunt you aside for passengers who are actually flying that day. When I've needed to take a physical voucher and get it ticketed, I'm often asked to wait until current-day pax are handled. And I'm top-tier. When you do get an agent with time, this is something that is out of their usual routine....while some can dive right in, they aren't trained, nor experienced, in FF booking. Especially for complex international trips. You will likely get the most perfunctory of searches.

 

Maybe GSO has some blocks of "down time" at counters, where nothing else is happening. They might be doing it then, almost for something to do. I can't say it couldn't possibly happen. But try walking up to a counter at ATL and asking a DL agent to book you a FF ticket and you'll get pointed to a bank of telephones.

 

Yup! I keep thanking our lucky star that AA last year has opened travel centers in South Florida and NYC. There are only 4 such City locations, 2 in Miami area and 1 in Ft.Lauderdale area, with 1 in NYC. It was such a vast difference to have our tickets done with vouchers recently than a year ago at FLL airport counter.

 

Honestly, if not for the high value of the redicual value (meaning we would get a new set of vouchers back), I wouldn't bother to go to the travel center. But I really dont feel I can trust USPS on this one, also with AA, the $100 ticket change fee would also cover the agent assist ticketing fee - i.e. you would only be charge the HIGHEST fee applied, not every single fee, unlike CO which charged me both the ticket change fee of $100 AND the call center fee of $25 - and such fees must be paid separately by a CC, cannot be deducted from the voucher value like how AA handles it.

 

I know why we fly AA and this would just prove it to me one more time. :D

[MMDown Under]

I recently looked at Qantas FF -

 

Economy for 2 one way - Miami to London to Paris - 60,000 points, plus $571.60 surcharges, fees and taxes.

 

We are flexible and haven't decided on final routing, but are open to

 

Date around 12/12/08

Departure from Orlando/Miami

Destination Paris/Geneva/Turin/Milan

 

We will be flying home from Milan, but can travel there by train. (BTW We paid $598.21 pp taxes each for Milan economy return tickets.)

 

Would it be better value for us to just buy one way tickets from Florida to Europe?

[nho9504]

You already have a r/t ticket for Milan (from where?) and now you want to replace it with Qantas award?

 

The Qantas award costs you 60K miles AND $571.60 but you only paid $598.21 for your rt to Milan...

 

May be if you give more precise info, Global, the resident expert on QF program would give you some sage advice.

 

What a huge surcharge of the QF award ticket... And the HIGH requirement of the points.

 

Dec is a LOW season for Europe - the AA r/t economy award requires only 40K miles ROUND TRIP, and if you are not going thru LHR, your tax and fee should be around $50 or less.

 

UA coach award to Europe is 50K year-round at least that is how I remember it.

 

So much for the advantage of claiming One-Way award on QF, when its one-way requires MORE than the round trip some US airlines FF programs required.

 

I recently looked at Qantas FF -

 

Economy for 2 one way - Miami to London to Paris - 60,000 points, plus $571.60 surcharges, fees and taxes.

 

We are flexible and haven't decided on final routing, but are open to

 

Date around 12/12/08

Departure from Orlando/Miami

Destination Paris/Geneva/Turin/Milan

 

We will be flying home from Milan, but can travel there by train. (BTW We paid $598.21 pp taxes each for Milan economy return tickets.)

 

Would it be better value for us to just buy one way tickets from Florida to Europe?

[Globaliser]

So much for the advantage of claiming One-Way award on QF, when its one-way requires MORE than the round trip some US airlines FF programs required.

As noted in my reply on the other thread, Miami->Paris one-way is 30,000 QF miles per person, but 40,000 or 60,000 AA miles per person - because the former is a one-way award, and the latter is a round-trip award.

 

I don't know about availability or how the 40,000 mile award works, but is there a distinct possibility that you might have to fly AA rather than BA to get the 40,000 mile award? If there is, that rather devalues the award.

[cjmayes51]

FYI- Just reporting that this worked for me and a number of others here in the Greensboro area. Our airport is fairly new, being expanded because FEDX is moving a large Hub in here and extremely underutilized. Only 100-120 flights a day out of the airport. Stuck between Raleigh and Charlotte many people will drive 60-70 miles to fly Southwest or someone else to save $$. USAir has 60 % of all flights out of GSO and I have never been at the airport where there are more the 8-10 people in line at anytime with 3 agents working the desk .We aren't ATL or MIA, but although prices are somewhat higher, there are some advantages. I may try this next year and get laughed at, but it has worked where phone calls and internet trying didn't come thru.

[nho9504]

I don't know about availability or how the 40,000 mile award works, but is there a distinct possibility that you might have to fly AA rather than BA to get the 40,000 mile award? If there is, that rather devalues the award.

 

The off peak 40K award actually has a lot more availability than the 90K biz award. In Jan I was booking a 90K biz award (which does not have off peak, same level year round), BCN/JFK was available for 40K EVERY DAY OF APRIL AND THRU MAY 15, the last day of the offpeak period. There was 0 on 90K level. I decided to fly BCN/MAD/ZRH on IB, then spend a week at ZRH for fun, before fly ZRH/JFK on AA biz. SAME 90K requirement. There was no biz availability at CDG, but there were lots at LHR as well as FRA - neither one interested us at the time. You just need to know the routes of AA and its partners, and see what fits your desire / need the best. We could potentially fly Finnair (AY) to JFK but decided we did not want to see Finland in May.

 

NOPE. The condition to fly BA over the ocean has nothing to do with miles required. It means you have to originate from Canada or Mexico City - due to the Anti-Trust agreement these 2 airlines signed with US Government. Whether you fly 40K off peak, 60K peak coach, or 90K biz or 120K F - ALL SUBJ TO THE SAME RESTRICTION.

 

The get-around of the above rule is to use Canada or Mexico City. That does NOT cost ANY ADDITIONAL miles, same 40K, 60K, 90K or 120K for the respective awards. That is the MAJOR difference from the QF awards which use mileage flown to determine miles required level.

 

On a different type of award - OW awards do that, but the rules are totally different from AA or AA All Partners awards. And a totally different subj. I dont know if OW awards are the same accross OW members. (You can have max 16 segments, 2 connections and 1 stopover at SAME city, but not your origination / destination city, you can backtrack to the originating Continental via the Ocean and not count against you... though I am not sure if the last one is going away Sept 1)

 

Under the same rule, AA flyers would not earn ANY AA miles if they fly BA over the pond on a PAY ticket, if that flight is originated from US.

 

AS, a partner of BA, does not have such restriction on BA redemption. You can use AS miles to fly BA accross the pond from US. That is because AS and BA do not have shared routes between US and UK.

 

However, last I checked, one does NOT earn AS miles either if one flies BA accross the pond from US.

 

The AA/BA/IB merger talk has stirred lots of speculation about the effects on the above-mentioned restriction. My understanding is, BA already owns a chunk of IB and has the option to buy up to 35% or something like that.

[Globaliser]

NOPE. The condition to fly BA over the ocean has nothing to do with miles required. It means you have to originate from Canada or Mexico City - due to the Anti-Trust agreement these 2 airlines signed with US Government. Whether you fly 40K off peak, 60K peak coach, or 90K biz or 120K F - ALL SUBJ TO THE SAME RESTRICTION.

 

The get-around of the above rule is to use Canada or Mexico City. That does NOT cost ANY ADDITIONAL miles, same 40K, 60K, 90K or 120K for the respective awards. That is the MAJOR difference from the QF awards which use mileage flown to determine miles required level.

I'd forgotten about the anti-trust restriction. I was actually wondering more about availability - more on AA than BA?

 

Anyway, if I were thinking of getting an award, and was given the choice between flying AA directly from Miami across the Atlantic, or flying AA to Canada/Mexico before connecting to a BA to fly trans-Atlantic - I'd just buy a cash ticket.

 

But, as I say, horses for courses. Other people may well take a different view.

[nho9504]

I'd forgotten about the anti-trust restriction. I was actually wondering more about availability - more on AA than BA?

 

Anyway, if I were thinking of getting an award, and was given the choice between flying AA directly from Miami across the Atlantic, or flying AA to Canada/Mexico before connecting to a BA to fly trans-Atlantic - I'd just buy a cash ticket.

 

But, as I say, horses for courses. Other people may well take a different view.

 

It so happens that we dont mind to fly thru Canada because we actually can use that as a gateway city stopover to visit our families which have members live in both Toronto and Vancouver. :D

 

Though from MIA, one can only use YYZ as the All Partner award on International route, requires you to fly the MOST DIRECT ROUTE possible. Hence YVR would be out. Though on a Domestic Award (North America incl Canada, excl Mexico) you can have a stopover anywhere in lower 48, regardless HOW you fly, 1 stopover, either on the outbound or the inbound, does not matter. In fact, on a Hawaii award, if not originating from CA, you can have a stopover in lower 48, as well as San Juan, Puerto Rico. We actually consider such award at one time - to have a South Caribbean cruise then followed by a Hawaii trip - though it would mean we fly thru MIA twice - out to SJU, back in mainland before heading to Hawaii... We eventually nixed the idea, as 7 days South Caribbean cruise followed by another 10 days in Hawaii seem a bit overdone of Sun and Sea R&R. :P