No shows after dinner? Really?

[ekerr19]

The new brainstorm of having shows for people who dine at 8:00 and 8:30 before our dinner guaranteed the performers will have a near empty audience. If we wanted to dress and be out for the evening at 6:15 or so, we would be going to early dinner. We ask for 8:00 dinner because we do not want to start our evening so early.

 

Love to know who thought this was 'for the comfort and convenience of their guests'???

 

Our sentiments exactly... in fact a couple weeks ago, there were a couple nights when they only had one show, I believe.

 

We're not interested in a "pre-dinner" show at all. We like to have a cocktail and listen to "live" music (get that HAL? In case anyone's reading....) and then have a leisurely dinner.

 

A show after dinner might be something we'd attend, but definitely not before. :(

[sail7seas]

Any evening without a visit to Ocean Bar before dinner would not be our idea of the perfect cruise evening. :)

 

If we aren't in Ocean Bar by a certain time, they send someone to be sure we are okay! :D Well, not really but just about.

 

Even if I only have a club soda, we enjoy that social time and chatting and listening to the music. We will not be seeing many (any) shows now. Our loss.

 

[meterman2]

Sometimes I wonder how these decisions (policy changes) are made. Now I know survey cards are filled out at the end of the cruise. I've only been on a few HAL cruises but I never thought of critiqueing much of anything, especially the dining schedule or show times. Is this what HAL truly go's by? The reason I bring it up is because I work in a fairly large organization (about 20,000 people) and everytime we get a leadership (so-called) change, they seem to feel required to "leave their mark". It almost appears that the "changes" are created to justify their positions. We're always asked to submit goals and accomplishments, plans and initiatives. Heck, half the time I just re-hash stuff I developed for prior administrations. We generally have a system that works fine but someone will come aboard and want to implement a new way of doing things.

 

I suspect the department that oversees "hotel management" for HAL has had a turnover in the last 12-16 months. First AYWD and now the shows. This is starting to look familiar. So much for "If it's not broke, Why fix it"!:confused:

[LBCABob]

Maybe the change in show times is just the first step in dropping one show entirely (and thus reduce the entertainment budget by XX%?), or maybe the early show will be "free" and the late show "by reservation only, $30/pp"?

 

While I can understand performers not enjoying playing to a small audience, they get paid the same whether there's 10 people in the audience or 1,000. Are such employees so hard to find that management would piss off a percentage of their paying customers to keep said employees happy?

 

And if all/most of the cruise lines are coming into conformity on this type of show schedule, the cruising customer have little reason to change from one line to another (e.g. if all airlines charge for 2nd checked bag, then the consumer is stuck with the fee (if they want to fly and check 2 bags).

 

When a business changes something it's because management thinks it can increase profits from the change (either reduce costs or increase revenue or both). They can easily be wrong but getting them to admit it is usually tough (remember the fiasco when they changed the taste of Coke?).

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

It's all fairly simple.

 

For those that prefer a relaxing drink and, perhaps, a dance prior to dinning in the 'mess hall' on the late shift, aka, 2000-2030 hrs. maybe HAL could provide a 'live' DVD presentation in the Wajang theatre of the current show for those of us considered "night owls".

 

Discounted drink coupons could be available for the 'late crowd' attached (paper-clipped?) to the DR menu nightly. Could be a 'windfall' for HAL, no?

 

Come on folks, let's think 'out of the box'.

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

[the2ofus]

If you give the passengers nothing to stay up for, they'll just grab a DVD and retire to their cabins for the evening. How much revenue will that produce for the cruise line? If they want people out and about and spending money in the lounges they need to give them something to do in the evening. Seems like a simple concept. Why does HAL management not get it?

[dlbaqua]

I'm disappointed to read this. Looks like they are making the only alternative after dinner a visit to the casino, which my dh will love but I won't!

We try to make the Friends of Bill W. meetings, which are usually around 5 pm so early dinner is not an option for us, either.

[FinelyRetired]

This is certainly an unfortunate change. I prefer main seating primarily because after a long day in port, I need some down time, a pot of tea, feet up, long shower, etc. to re-energize. I simply can't & wont "rush around" & exhaust myself just to make a pre-dinner show and thereby "get my money's worth" for the cruise!

 

I'll likely adjust my sea day routine to make the early shows those days so I'll get to see a few shows and not be completely cheated.

[LoyHAL]

We enjoy the late sitting. On our three previous HAL cruises, we always wanted the 8 p.m. but had to settle for 8:30. Not a big problem, but many times we would either be late or have to rush for 10 p.m. show. Well, this time we booked well over a year in advance (directly w/HAL) to lock up the 8 p.m. sitting for our group and the "show situation" is now worse than before. I guess we'll have to go early (and be dressed) and maybe we'll have to leave the show early sometimes. More than anything, I don't want to have to dress up earlier.

 

I guess if I had to do it all over again, I'd still pick the "late seating". We enjoy the dining experience too much, well above the shows. When we were confronted with AYWD, the thought of reservations, possibly waiting, pagers and different waiters most nights seem to threaten the thing we enjoy the most during the cruise. I know I'm resistant to change, but I think HAL is off the mark with these changes. On every cruise we have had a great experience with our (same) waiters. Going to "our" table at the end of a tough day at sea and being warmly greeted by name by "familiar smiling" faces was "like coming home". I don't think HAL realizes how important that aspect of the cruise is to so many people. That service has always been a HAL trademark.

I couldn't agree with you more! What can they be thinking? I think this AYWD option is a slippery slide to disaster! I'm so glad we had the opportunity to experience cruising the way WE like it!

LoyHAL

[Copper10-8]

We just experienced this new showtime schedule last month on Maasdam and to put it bluntly, feel it sucks eggs! We happen to like the 8:00 PM dinner, are used to going to the Ocean bar for a drink before and to the 10:15 show. With these new times, with one exception on Maasdam, we had no option left but to see showtime before dinner at 6:45 PM (the second show was at 8:30 right smack in between dinner)

The one exception took place on Day 8 in Tortola when, all of a sudden, we were back to the preferred schedule of a 8:30 pm show for early seating guests and a 10:15 pm show foe main seating guests. Why that one day? No clue!

I don't know who came up with this brilliant idea? Rumor has it, Bill Prince, but we don't care for it. One of the problems it presents is that if you are on a full-day excursion, upon returning to the ship, it's almost like being back in the military and academy with a forced "quickie changie" if you want to make show time by 6:45 plus get a descent seat. For the fairer sex with all the hoopla (shower, hair, eye and face painting, getting dressed in various stages, you name it, I'm sure I'm forgeting stuff) you ladies have to go through to get ready:eek: , that's pretty much a lost cause and certainly no day at the beach.

As far as what was offered in the form of "doing stuff" after dinner usually around 9:35-9:50, that was pretty much limited to the visiting the open bars/lounges, the casino (we don't gamble) or going outside to watch the submarine races. I have a feeling these time changes are incorporated right now to generate more revenue in those area's (drinks, casino). We certainly hope HAL goes back to the old ways but are not holding our breath.

[kryos]

Sometimes I wonder how these decisions (policy changes) are made.

I hate to say it, but it sounds to me like a lot of these decisions are made with an eye toward the generation of increased onboard revenue. With the profit margins on cruises getting smaller and smaller, onboard revenue is the only way for the cruiselines to keep their profit percentages high. Maybe someone "calculated" that onboard revenue would be increased by having no entertainment venues onboard the ship after a certain time other than the bars and lounges. This way since people wouldn't have a show to go to, they would be more likely to sit in a bar or lounge listening to music and buying drinks?

 

I'm just guessing here, but it's the only logical reason for this change that I can come up with.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

As far as what was offered in the form of "doing stuff" after dinner usually around 9:35-9:50, that was pretty much limited to the visiting the open bars/lounges, the casino (we don't gamble) or going outside to watch the submarine races. I have a feeling these time changes are incorporated right now to generate more revenue in those area's (drinks, casino). We certainly hope HAL goes back to the old ways but are not holding our breath.

I can't come up with any other possible reason either. After all, without a show to go to, think about it, what else is there to do except something that involves putting more money into HAL's coffers ... i.e., casino, bar, internet center, renting a video, etc., etc.

 

True, HAL is losing the revenue that people would have spent going to the Ocean Bar for a pre-dinner cocktail (because theoretically they are at the show at this time), but then how many drinks does one normally have time for pre-dinner? At least this way, people will drop in after dinner, even if they are only planning on the same one drink, but then if they are enjoying the music, have met up with friends, etc., they may stay for a second or even third, fourth, etc., drink. Definitely sounds like a cash cow for HAL here and when looked at that way, I can full well understand the reason HAL made the change. In fact, whoever thought it up probably got a nice bonus already.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

If you give the passengers nothing to stay up for, they'll just grab a DVD and retire to their cabins for the evening. How much revenue will that produce for the cruise line? If they want people out and about and spending money in the lounges they need to give them something to do in the evening. Seems like a simple concept. Why does HAL management not get it?

They do. There is live music in all of the bars and lounges after dinner and that is exactly what HAL is hoping people do ... stop in for a drink after dinner and then just stay for a few hours. Or, drop a bundle in the casino. Either way, HAL makes money.

 

But I'm one of those people who is not likely to put too much added money in HAL's coffers with this new policy. I'll probably just have dinner, then maybe one drink that normally I would have had before dinner, and then retire to my cabin to listen to CD's or watch a DVD (all of which I bring along with me). HAL will get nothing out of me that I wouldn't have spent anyway.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Maybe the change in show times is just the first step in dropping one show entirely (and thus reduce the entertainment budget by XX%?), or maybe the early show will be "free" and the late show "by reservation only, $30/pp"?

I doubt they could "drop" one show entirely. The show lounge wouldn't accommodate all the passengers in one seating. We saw that on the Amsterdam during the Hawaii/South Pacific cruise in January 2006. When they bring on local entertainment at the overnight ports (such as Oahu and Bora Bora), they only do one show, probably because the outside entertainers (oftentimes including children for the hula show) can't do more than one performance. In order to accommodate everyone who may want to see that show, they have to set extra chairs up ... extending far beyond the show lounge doors. People aren't happy because they can barely see the stage and conditions are very crowded. So, I doubt HAL could get away with one show for very long. I also don't think passengers would tolerate having to pay if they wanted to go to a "special" late performance. We are used to entertainment being free on a cruise. It will be very difficult to get passengers to pay for something they've gotten for free for so many years.

 

When RCI first put their rock walls on the ships, they tried charging people to climb them. The passengers rebelled and RCI quickly wound up discontinuing the practice.

 

What I can imagine HAL doing, however, is requiring passengers to "queue up" to get tickets for the show. The tickets would be free, but given out on a first come, first served basis. Have the same show playing several nights (or maybe one evening and one or two "matinee" performances) during the cruise. Then if the evening show was "sold out," passengers can opt for tickets for one of the daytime performances. I think RCI does something similar with their ice shows. Tickets are free, but have to be "reserved." Ditto for Cunard's planatarium shows.

 

But I just can't see any way HAL could charge for show tickets, with the exception of a really special show with a headliner act. The passengers would never tolerate it. They would never pay good money to see the normal run-of-the-mill cruise ship entertainers.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

While I can understand performers not enjoying playing to a small audience, they get paid the same whether there's 10 people in the audience or 1,000. Are such employees so hard to find that management would piss off a percentage of their paying customers to keep said employees happy?

HAL couldn't care less about what their employees want or do not want. The simple fact is that waiters go around selling drinks before the shows start. If the show lounge is half empty because people are not going to a late show, they are not selling as many drinks, plain and simple.

 

Now, of course, you can argue that some of those people who are not in the show lounge might be sitting in the Ocean Bar or the Crow's Nest drinking there. But it is just as likely that a good percentage of them already went to bed because a 10:15 show might be a bit too late for them and therefore HAL is losing a bundle.

 

So, make the show for late seating diners before they go in to dinner, perhaps sell them a drink in the show lounge, and then more drinks in one of the bars after dinner. Makes sense, right?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[mancunian]

I personally think that it is to do with trying to make people use the casino and bars later and is more to do with revenue. I can't see a link with AYW because in practice the majority of diners on open are dining at much the same times as the traditional diners.

 

However, I do think that HAL are creating a problem for themselves, because many who enjoyed a show after dinner, may well have to opt for first sitting or an early open time. Not us - we liked the shows but will not go before dinner. We like getting back on board perhaps sitting with a book on Promenade deck to unwind, watching us sail, get ready fairly leisurely and going for a drink. No intention of changing that. Although as I say we like the shows they no way make up for the super feeling of doing our usual unwinding routine. We found on Rotterdam recently that after dinner we ended up sitting in Explorers with a drink listening to music. Trouble is they pack up just as you are arriving!!!

 

Yes I agree with someone further back on the thread that the cast are paid the same whether full or not, but it is much nicer for them and the passenger to have a full audience.

[meterman2]

Well, the response(s) to my question (Why the change?) seems to have a consensus that it's about revenue. I guess when HAL pours over "tally sheets" and sees the Crows Nest, Casino and Disco underperforming in comparison to thier Carnival cousins, they may have been motivated to try to increase it. This makes sense because I couldn't believe it was because of a large "customer demand". I suppose if it does generate more $$$$, all the survey cards in the world will have little impact.

 

I always thought the demographic of HAL's clientele had more to do with the lessor activity at late evening venues. We never go to the Crows Nest or Disco and our drink purchases are limited to before dinner (occasionally one after at the Piano Bar). Our group ranges from late 40's to late 50's. No one particularly like loud music. We already give the casino too much and its the one area I'm trying to limit in the future. Plus, the small casinos (as they are now) really can't handle too many more people.

 

Is HAL attempting to move towards a different demographic? Are they willing to risk customer loyalty? When I browse for a cruise I have focused 100% on HAL. As they move to "mirror" other cruise lines and lose thier uniqueness, will "mariners" focus more on price and itinerary than on "product". As cruise prices have risen, we've discussed looking around more, strictly for budget reasons, but now HAL may be helping us with that decision. HAL could be right on point or HAL could "penny smart and dollar stupid". Time will tell.

[billfish]

After reading this thread I may have to reconsider my options for our next cruise. i am a fan of Dinner and Show and prefer the later seating so we can relax after a full day,enjoy a pre dinner cocktail so on and so on.

 

I don't think HAL is making a wise decsion.............

[boards]

WE agree with billfish. Does anyone know if the Rotterdam has changed their show times now?

[sail7seas]

I think we best learn to live with this as I can't remember many times when HAL has reversed a change once they have instituted it.

 

If someone wants a drink before dinner, they can have it in either the Ocean Bar (or other lounges) or while watching the show. Same for after dinner for the main seating guests.

 

I fail to see how eliminating late show and substituting it with a before dinner show is going to sell more drinks. It isn't like people can't get a drink at the show no matter the time it is held. Drink in a lounge or drink at the show, it is the same revenue to HAL.

 

What am I missing?

[Love the beach]

 

I think the reason I've seen the show lounge not really filled during the late shows on my cruises is because I tend to take longer cruises and there's a lot of older folks on them ... some really older. I would imagine they like to be in bed earlier and a 10:15 or 10:30 show is just a bit too late for them? Maybe that's why HAL made this change?

 

 

Most of the really older crowd prefer to eat dinner early and hence would be available to attend the 8- 8:15 show. Don't know why they did this-- but I'm another who doesn't like having to rush to attend a show before dinner. We always enjoyed going to the shows---rarely missed one! Will see how this plays out on the Eurodam 3 day Intro.

[tayl]

As noted on another thread, I actually spoke to someone, who advised,that the main (amoung several) reason for the change in show times, is due to the AYW dinners. They tend to dine earlier and the regular show time was just too long for them to wait.

I also, after several calls got Bill's email. He's the head of entertainment the scheduling. Unless he's changed his email, it's still bprince@hollandamerica.com . I urge everyone with concerns to email him.

I leave for Alaska next week. We have an SA suite with late fixed dinning. This will probably be my last cruise with HAL, as dining prior to a show is an important part of the cruise experience for me.

We have a child on her first cruise, who was looking forward to seeing the shows. Not sure what we'll do with her in the evenings now.

I have always loved HAL, but it's trying to please everyone... Isn't that part of NCL's problems.

I understand the concept of AYW, but changing the show times? They told us that this new dining concept would not affect traditional diners?

[m steve]

We are not attending as many shows as they seem to be more of the same each cruise regardless of the ship or line. If the shows for late dining are at 6 we will probably miss them all. Next cruise is a back to back 20 days and since everything will be repeated there will be no urgency to see a show. I like the late show as it's a good way to have an after dinner drink without being in the casino and donating another $50 to the Carnival profit line (I'm a stockholder) or sitting in the smoking bar since my partner smokes.

[expectGREATthings]

Why not just have three shows and make everybody happy.

 

Michael

[cruz chic]

I think we best learn to live with this as I can't remember many times when HAL has reversed a change once they have instituted it.

 

If someone wants a drink before dinner, they can have it in either the Ocean Bar (or other lounges) or while watching the show. Same for after dinner for the main seating guests.

 

I fail to see how eliminating late show and substituting it with a before dinner show is going to sell more drinks. It isn't like people can't get a drink at the show no matter the time it is held. Drink in a lounge or drink at the show, it is the same revenue to HAL.

 

What am I missing?

Yes you can get a drink in the show lounge but it's can be a challenge. There have been many times I've felt like a drink but short of tripping them to get their attention it can be a challenge. Never a challenge to get a drink in the bars.