Is "Formal Wear" a bit of an anachronism?

[tvaud]

I agree with those who suggest a formal and a non-formal dining room offering identical menus. It does not make sense that someone who does not want to dress up should have to eat at the buffet like a second class citizen, since they are paying the same price. Any ship that holds 2,000 pasengers can easily accomodate a formal and non-formal dining room. Those of us who wish to dress up could feel justifiably superior and all of us could enjoy a wonderful meal.

 

Dressed in a gown or country club casual I will still have a wonderful time!

 

Dressing up for formal evenings does not make one superior to anyone else. Dressing up does show respect for your host and fellow passengers. There is always NCL for all of you who wish to eat in a dining room casually.

[karatemom2]

I agree with those who suggest a formal and a non-formal dining room offering identical menus. It does not make sense that someone who does not want to dress up should have to eat at the buffet like a second class citizen, since they are paying the same price. Any ship that holds 2,000 pasengers can easily accomodate a formal and non-formal dining room. Those of us who wish to dress up could feel justifiably superior and all of us could enjoy a wonderful meal.

 

Dressed in a gown or country club casual I will still have a wonderful time!

 

But I guess the real point is that Princess does not offer this as an option so as others have pointed out there are lines like NCL and I believe now Carnival that do. If formal dress is not your preference and you want to eat all you meals in the dining room, it just makes sense to choose a line that offers that option. And I don't think anyone has said dressing up makes one superior. It just means you are following the guidelines set forth by the cruiseline you have chosen which is the appropriate thing to do.

[cs]

When I first read her post, I thought, "Oh no," but after thinking about it, a nice black t-shirt dress can be dressed up with jewelry and accessories and dressier shoes to comply. A simple dress can always be dressed up with a little thought. Try it sometime.:)

I'll bet that suit with a fancier blouse, string of pearls and nice pair of strappy sandals could be quite appropriate.

 

I agree. I think both her t-shirt dress and a business suit with the right accessories could both be appropriate. BUT - neither is acceptable by the cruise line's definition of formal wear. So what do we do? Dress how we feel appropriate? Or tell Pam in MA that she's actually not practicing what she's preaching?

[bdjam]

I'm looking at a patter from CB 2/4/08. Yes, at the top it says "Tonight's dress: Formal" although it doesn't go on to define it (not that that matters). My thought is that this is just to alert passengers for the dining room...to avoid confusion. Not as a declaration for the entire ship for the night.

 

I say this because there are casual alternatives. How can a pax get to/from these if the ship truly is all formal. Are you saying that non-formal pax should stay in their rooms all night (outside of a mad dash to the Cafe Caribe for dinner)?

 

Aforementioned patter:

http://www.cruisingthecaribbeanprincess.com/020408.pdf

If it was to alert passengers to the dining room, wouldn’t it say “Tonight’s Dining Room Dress: Formal?”

 

Part of the reason that these debates go on – at least on Princess – is because the cruise line makes it very difficult to be absolute in it’s application of the guideline. Princess, in order to continue to fill it’s ships, needs to be a cruise line that appeals to a wide range of tastes. Again, I think this is one place where Princess’ has erred, but I understand the business reason to do this. Grand Princess, the first of their big ships, originally wasn’t meant to be a mass-market ship, but in order to fill it, Princess had to mass-market it. She was meant to provide the same small ship ambience and product that the other Princess ships provided. A miss-step on Princess’ part, but one that they mitigated by mass marketing and adjusting their product. Unfortunately, the adjustment leaves some ambiguity about what’s expected on board.

 

So what you have is a blurring of the formal/casual lines. Evenings meant to be formal in attire and ambience for the most part still are, however - the majority of those on board still dress appropriately to partake in the formal events. Those of us who still appreciate the Princess product have adjusted our expectations and we are happy that Princess still sets a minimum guideline that addresses our desires - and yes we do accept the few who prefer casual into our ranks. What is upsetting is those who come along and petition the cruise line to change the product into another NCL either by telling Princess such or by acting as such. Lowering the standard on Princess will ultimately lower the standard Princess presents.

 

Currently there’s an adequate compromise between formal and casual with most people opting to follow the guidelines. My wish is that the vocal casual minority would leave it as it is and stop being so greedy as to take over the whole ship.

 

Princess is business smart – if formal evenings were really the bane of the industry, Princess would not offer them. If Princess’ loyal passengers didn’t mean something to the company, they would not continue to offer the product the long time passengers want.

[bdjam]

bdjam,

 

I appreciate your posts....most of them.;)

:D :D

[bdjam]

It does not make sense that someone who does not want to dress up should have to eat at the buffet like a second class citizen, since they are paying the same price.

I think this is a big part of the issue – those who would prefer to dress casually somehow feel inadequate about it and that they will be treated as less. I’m not sure how choosing to go to a buffet offering nearly the same food choices makes one inferior. Perhaps this is where a good psychologist comes in.

[karatemom2]

So what you have is a blurring of the formal/casual lines. Evenings meant to be formal in attire and ambience for the most part still are, however - the majority of those on board still dress appropriately to partake in the formal events. Those of us who still appreciate the Princess product have adjusted our expectations and we are happy that Princess still sets a minimum guideline that addresses our desires - and yes we do accept the few who prefer casual into our ranks. What is upsetting is those who come along and petition the cruise line to change the product into another NCL either by telling Princess such or by acting as such. Lowering the standard on Princess will ultimately lower the standard Princess presents.

 

Brian I completely agree. It has been our experience on Princess that the vast majority of passengers enjoy and participate happily in the formal evenings. It's a festive occasion and everyone seems to be in great spirits and enjoy the special ambiance formal evenings create onboard. Yet I come back and read these posts and it seems like people view it as a burden or a something that should be discontinued. Maybe it's just a vocal minority here. I certainly hope that's the case, because from all indications most of the fellow cruisers I have traveled with on Princess seem to value and enjoy formal evenings and would be equally opposed to the idea of ending that tradition.

[DGNY]

If it was to alert passengers to the dining room, wouldn’t it say “Tonight’s Dining Room Dress: Formal?”

 

I guess it is just another of those "gray" areas. And to me, since Princess has other non-formal eating options would say to me that the ship is not "formal only". For example, let's say I go to the buffet on a formal night because I don't want to wear a tux/suit. Afterwards I get the itch to play some blackjack. Are you saying that I shouldn't do that? I'm certain Princess wants my donation regardless of what I'm wearing.

 

I do agree with you though, that many of these debates happen because of a couple factors (1) large ships that Princess wants full (2) uneven enforcement. So, people hear stories about what other people got away with and in turn further try to push the limits.

[oilbert]

I can see that I phrased my question incorrectly. If as a party of 6 we show up at the appropriate dining room on a "formal night" dressed as above will the Princess Staff deny us seating ? Since a tie and jacket seem to be needed that could be arranged. I wore ties for 33 years , a few hours twice in one week could be endured . What the rest of the passengers think is of no consequence .

Another question please. I am not a fashion nut. I do not own a suit, nor will I every buy one. Can a fashion guru out there in web land define for me , explain in simple language, post a picture , etc - what is the difference between a sports coat and a dinner jacket ?

In reference to the original post - I believe that as my generation passes and those older also go to the great cruise ship in the sky simple demographics will force the cruise industry into two or perhaps three types of lines . The majority like NCL and a small group who prefer formal a more formal setting and perhaps a third group somewhat like todays Princess . Or perhaps each cruise line will simply designate one or more ships to each category . The second is perhaps the best , in that everyone, regardless of belief could sail every line and enjoy the experience .

[tvaud]

I agree. I think both her t-shirt dress and a business suit with the right accessories could both be appropriate. BUT - neither is acceptable by the cruise line's definition of formal wear. So what do we do? Dress how we feel appropriate? Or tell Pam in MA that she's actually not practicing what she's preaching?

 

In today's mail was a Chadwick's catalog. In it was a t-shirt dress for sale in black as well as other colors. To look at the photo, the black dress looks like a basic black dress, which could be dressed up or down according to the occasion. Pam in MA's dress is floor length, which can make it even more dressy. As long as it is in good condition, who would know it was a t-shirt dress, especially if it was dressed up with a shawl, jewelry, etc. A t-shirt style dress can even be made of silk or satin. It is still a floor length dress. It fits. It doesn't have to have beads and lace to make it formal. Simplicity can be formal too...it all depends on how you present it.

[Woobstr112G]

It's so funny how this same debate comes up over and over again, but it really should be quite clear cut. Princess as a line has maintained formal evenings and offers very specific guidelines on appropriate dress for those evenings. If someone does not want to dress accordingly there are other dining options available. Yet people continue to book cruises with Princess knowing this and then proceed to argue why it should not apply to them.

 

If you want a cruise without formal nights there are lines that offer that option. If formal evenings are that big of an issue why would you book a cruise on a line where it is still observed and then proceed to complain about it? It's like buying a product that has a feature you really dislike, but you spend money on it anyway and then tell the whole world how terrible it is. I just don't get it.

 

I totally agree. While I will never give up formal nights, I don't mind others that don't dress up, just head to the buffet or do room service or UBD. I also agree in quit bellyaching if you know that, prior to booking a cruise, a specific line has a dress code for formal night. If you don't wanna dress up don't. Just stop your whinning......

 

Bob

 

Future: Diamond Princess Aus/Nz 01/09

Future: Emerald Princess Med/Trans Atlantic 10/08

Constellation Europe 07/06

Summit Alaska Repositioning 05/05

Summit Panama Canal 10/02

Rhapsody Of The Seas Alaska 09/01

Spledour Of The Seas Baltic 09/99

Veendam Eastern Caribbean 07/96

Holiday Western Carribean 07/93

[burm]

I think this is a big part of the issue – those who would prefer to dress casually somehow feel inadequate about it and that they will be treated as less. I’m not sure how choosing to go to a buffet offering nearly the same food choices makes one inferior. Perhaps this is where a good psychologist comes in.

 

The food in the buffet is most definitely not the nearly the same as in the dining room. That being said, if one chooses to go to the buffet they obviously need not feel inferior. The problem is when the formal folks feel that the casually dressed should have to stand in line and fight for a table in the buffet and not be given the excellent service and experience provided in the dining room.

 

Personally, I quite enjoy dressing up, but I feel that on today's large ships there is plenty of room to please everyone.

 

I always try to look nice but don't care much what anyone else choses to wear- unless I am married to them.

[tvaud]

I can see that I phrased my question incorrectly. If as a party of 6 we show up at the appropriate dining room on a "formal night" dressed as above will the Princess Staff deny us seating ? Since a tie and jacket seem to be needed that could be arranged. I wore ties for 33 years , a few hours twice in one week could be endured . What the rest of the passengers think is of no consequence .

Another question please. I am not a fashion nut. I do not own a suit, nor will I every buy one. Can a fashion guru out there in web land define for me , explain in simple language, post a picture , etc - what is the difference between a sports coat and a dinner jacket ?

 

To me, a dinner jacket is the white/ivory jacket that is worn with traditional tuxedo pants/accessories. It is sometimes called a tropical tuxedo. Ok, I just Googled "dinner jacket" and this came up. http://www.uniformalwearhouse.com/apages/tuxedojackets2.html

In reference to the original post - I believe that as my generation passes and those older also go to the great cruise ship in the sky simple demographics will force the cruise industry into two or perhaps three types of lines . The majority like NCL and a small group who prefer formal a more formal setting and perhaps a third group somewhat like todays Princess . Or perhaps each cruise line will simply designate one or more ships to each category . The second is perhaps the best , in that everyone, regardless of belief could sail every line and enjoy the experience .

 

Until the traditionalists all pass away, with none to replace them....;) ...the dress codes are still in place.

Perhaps one day, there will be specific ships to cater to each group. For now, we have a few cruise lines that will cater to those who prefer casual. I just wish those people would stop trying to convert them all. That's why there are apples and oranges, people...:rolleyes:

[tvaud]

The food in the buffet is most definitely not the nearly the same as in the dining room. That being said, if one chooses to go to the buffet they obviously need not feel inferior. The problem is when the formal folks feel that the casually dressed should have to stand in line and fight for a table in the buffet and not be given the excellent service and experience provided in the dining room.

 

Personally, I quite enjoy dressing up, but I feel that on today's large ships there is plenty of room to please everyone.

 

I don't believe there is much fighting for tables at Cafe Caribe in the evening. From reading other posts of those who frequent the evening buffet, they quite enjoy the themed evening fare and quiet ambiance. It's a very different experience from breakfast and lunch.

[burm]

 

If you want a cruise without formal nights there are lines that offer that option. If formal evenings are that big of an issue why would you book a cruise on a line where it is still observed and then proceed to complain about it? It's like buying a product that has a feature you really dislike, but you spend money on it anyway and then tell the whole world how terrible it is. I just don't get it.

 

I totally agree with your comment.

 

However, present codes aside, I still don't understand why a ship accomodating 2000 passengers can't offer both a formal and a casual dining room with the same food and service.

[tvaud]

I totally agree with your comment.

 

However, present codes aside, I still don't understand why a ship accomodating 2000 passengers can't offer both a formal and a casual dining room with the same food and service.

 

They do. It's called NCL...and most recently, Carnival.

[otisishere]

THANK YOU!!! Well said!

 

It sounds as if one poster was saying that middle class and lower-middle class people shouldn't cruise. Others are telling most of us what we should spend our money on. I'm middle class and maybe you have a money tree in your backyard, but I don't happen to. It goes both ways. If you want to dress formal and are offended because others are "just" dressy, and you own a money tree, go on a long cruise and it sounds like you will be really happy.

 

I chose to go on a cruise to Alaska because I want to go on a cruise to Alaska. I also chose this cruise because I liked the itinerary and the time fit my schedule. Are people saying that I shouldn't cruise where and when I want to because of the dress code on two nights?

 

People used to dress up to go to football games. Who would do that now??? That dress code changed because times changed. I'm not promoting jeans, shorts, and sweats. Just choice as to how dressed up I need to get.

 

This poster is offering a great alternative. Have one dining room for formal and semi-formal and one for people who don't want to blow another hundred or two on something we may never wear again. Then, we can all have lobster and be happy. On every other day of the cruise we might all get along really well. It would be a shame to be looked down upon on two, two-hour periods just because I dress up and don't get formal.

 

"Can't we all just get along???" :-)

 

 

I think the "two dining rooms" idea is great. The cruise ships usually have at least two now, one for anytime dining and one for fixed. Make one formal and one not. I usually will dress very nice for formal night but I am not wearing a formal gown. I attend many formal fundraisers throughout the year and most that attend are dressed formally but not all. In fact the people in the room with the most money to give away are usually not dressed "formal". It's because they have so much money it doesn't matter. So...I don't think the money issues I'm reading about have anything to do with it. As I get older, the less I want someone telling me what to wear on vacation. I always dress in good taste regardless of where I am dining. :rolleyes:

[Pam in CA]

The problem is when the formal folks feel that the casually dressed should have to stand in line and fight for a table in the buffet and not be given the excellent service and experience provided in the dining room.

You are comparing apples with oranges a bit. It's not that the "formal folks" think the "casual folks" should have to go to the buffet but rather, you book on Princess knowing what the dress code is, and it is completely your choice which dining you would like to do. No one is forcing you to do anything. You are choosing to do it.

 

However, present codes aside, I still don't understand why a ship accomodating 2000 passengers can't offer both a formal and a casual dining room with the same food and service.

As has been said several times, there are other lines that offer all-casual dining. If you choose to cruise on Princess, there are "formal" nights.

 

As I get older, the less I want someone telling me what to wear on vacation. I always dress in good taste regardless of where I am dining. :rolleyes:

Again, no one is telling you what to wear on vacation. To repeat, you are choosing to cruise on Princess, which has formal nights. No one is forcing you to cruise on Princess and if you don't wish to get dressed up, then there are options available, both dining and other cruiselines. If you don't like it, why do you cruise Princess?

[weberman]

I can see that I phrased my question incorrectly. If as a party of 6 we show up at the appropriate dining room on a "formal night" dressed as above will the Princess Staff deny us seating ? Since a tie and jacket seem to be needed that could be arranged. I wore ties for 33 years , a few hours twice in one week could be endured . What the rest of the passengers think is of no consequence .

Another question please. I am not a fashion nut. I do not own a suit, nor will I every buy one. Can a fashion guru out there in web land define for me , explain in simple language, post a picture , etc - what is the difference between a sports coat and a dinner jacket ?

In reference to the original post - I believe that as my generation passes and those older also go to the great cruise ship in the sky simple demographics will force the cruise industry into two or perhaps three types of lines . The majority like NCL and a small group who prefer formal a more formal setting and perhaps a third group somewhat like todays Princess . Or perhaps each cruise line will simply designate one or more ships to each category . The second is perhaps the best , in that everyone, regardless of belief could sail every line and enjoy the experience .

 

The most formal occasion is known as White Tie formal (very strict dress code) not like the formal as used on a cruise ship.

 

Dinner jackets are commonly called formal wear. The jackets are usually two toned black but white is also used and acceptable in warmer climates

 

A sportcoat is considered Country Club Casual. A sportcoat, also called a sport(s) coat, sport(s) jacket, also mistakenly called a blazer, is a tailored coat for men. It is of the same cut as a suit coat, but is designed to be worn on its own and not as part of a suit and comes in many colors and weaves.

 

While suits are not actually considered formal, a dark suit and tie is perfectly acceptable on the cruiseline's formal nights. Even a dark navy blue blazer with a tie is considered acceptable on cruises. As are Kilts.

[232271]

As we both said on a previous thread, what the hell are people packing? I would imagine that even if they left out their formal wear, they’d still be taking the same number of bags.

 

not true for us, we bring a rolling hanging bag for my husbands suit which cannot be packed in a regular suitcase, w/o this I would NOT need this extra bag. So I would have one less suitcase as I bet most would.

[bdjam]

That being said, if one chooses to go to the buffet they obviously need not feel inferior. The problem is when the formal folks feel that the casually dressed should have to stand in line and fight for a table in the buffet and not be given the excellent service and experience provided in the dining room.

I don't know that Horizon Court has the free for all, fight for a table atmosphere you might be referring to. And I think that if a cruise ship offers a formal and a casual alternative and someone chooses to dress casually, then by default the choose to go to the casual alternative.

Maybe table service in Horizon Court is the answer?

not true for us, we bring a rolling hanging bag for my husbands suit which cannot be packed in a regular suitcase, w/o this I would NOT need this extra bag. So I would have one less suitcase as I bet most would.

I'm not sure what's different about your husband's suit, but I can pack mine in a regular suitcase quite well. That being said, I do normally pack mine in a garment bag along with my other slacks, jackets and on occasion some shirts. I don't have issues with bringing an extra bag - but for those who do, there are alternatives.

[232271]

Regarding the extra bag fees it is BOTH ways on American, who now charges just for the 1st one as well!!....and look at the 3rd suitcase......sure dressing up is nice, but can be a headache and cause extra fee's for some....I wish we could all understand that no two of us are alike and God made us with different opinions and tastes and that is okay.

Not everybody has to agree with our beliefs....I find it sad all the people who think there is something wrong with a person who does not believe/think the way they do. What a boring world it would be if we were all alike.

 

Customers who purchase domestic economy class tickets on or after June 15, 2008 will be charged $15 each way for the first checked bag and $25 each way for the second checked bag. Exceptions may apply. Our carry-on policy of one personal item (such as a purse or laptop bag) plus one bag remains in place. Please visit the Baggage Allowance page for current information regarding checked baggage and applicable fees.

Additional pieces may be checked with the following fees:

 

$100 per piece for the 3rd, 4th and 5th checked bags :eek:

$200 per piece for the 6th checked bag and any additional pieces :eek:

[burm]

$100 per piece for the 3rd, 4th and 5th checked bags :eek:

$200 per piece for the 6th checked bag and any additional pieces :eek:

 

 

Six checked bags! I have gone around the world with one!

[232271]

This seems to be a never ending debate . However after 3 cruises on NCL (Akaska, Panama Canal and South America) my DW and I are considering a 10 day Alaska Cruise tour in 2009 on Coral Princess. We would have at least one and perhaps two older couples with us . We would choose the anytime dining option and I suspect have 2 formal nights to contend with. A suit or tux is simply out of the question, as is a formal gown of ANY type for DW. For a formal night I would wear dress pants, a collared shirt, and preferably no tie .If at all possible no sports coat. DW would prefer a pant suit or a simple dress or some combination of blouse and dark slacks , with perhaps a sweater .(it is Alaska after all) This is very similar to what we would wear for any supper on NCL and for any expensive restauart near to our home. Neither one of us really cares what anyone else thinks , we got over that years ago. Dressed as described would in your opinions there be any problem with Princess ? I have read the Princess brochure and find the phrase "country club casual" to mean very little , except no jeans , bathing suits torn sweat pants etc. which we would not wear anyway. Please - I posted a similar question on the opposition and got royally flamed . Please be nice !!!

 

I found this on the Princess Diamond recent reviews here on Cruise critic:

 

Well, we have been cruising for a very long time and we made a rookie mistake on this cruise. We went to the dining room the first night dressed business casual which was fine. There were people at our table, however, who wore shorts and a T-shirt. That is fine by us…I am not on a cruise to judge what people are wearing. The problem came on the second night. Since it was only a 3 night cruise, we decided to dress "nicely" for pictures, but nothing "formal". Well, we took plenty of pictures (none that we liked enough to buy) and when we went to eat, we were told my husband needed a sport coat. Wait. Let me get this straight…shorts and a t-shirt okay every other night even though it is against their policy, but a nice polo and slacks on formal night is not good enough?

 

SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE ALL MIGHT NEED TO MAKE OUR HUBBY'S HAVE JACKETS OF SOME SORT.

[burm]

Including formal wear!